"Hawke" wrote in message
...

Ed Huntress


I think the labor wage should be whatever the market will bear. We
have
huge advantages in automation, quality, service and that "Made in USA"
sticker still means a lot. I'd like to pay higher wages than I do now,
and my wages are better than most in the industry. The "correct" wage
is
one that the workers can prosper the most while the company can prosper
too. The union mentality is: "Lets cut the goose open and get ALL the
gold."

I think that the union mentality, for around 150 years, was this: "We
know
you'll screw us as much as you can, and nobody knows how little income
you'll work for. So we'll push you until you can't be pushed
anymore...because, for 60 or 70 years (from 1870 to 1930), that's
exactly
what you did to us. And you'd do it again starting tomorrow if you could
get away with it."

It worked out a fairly stable equilibrium until we faced high volumes of
dirt-cheap imported products. Now the manufacturers who can't move have
no
way to prosper, if they're in competition with some of those dirt-cheap
imported products.

But they'll give it a try. They'll see if they can squeeze it out of
labor. But they really can't, except at the margins, because nobody can
live on what they can now afford to pay.

Surprise; it turned out that the golden goose is a whore. She followed
the
companies that were able to move their manufacturing to the
dirt-cheap-labor countries. They're still making a bundle, the goose is
laying her eggs for them, and we've gone from being a country with the
biggest middle class and the lowest income schisms in modern history to
one of the worst in the developed world. And everyone is looking for a
scapegoat, because they've been blinded by the minions of wealth who
feed
them a half-assed economic theory we imported from Austria, telling them
they're really better off, and any pain they perceive is either an
illusion or somebody else's fault.

Hey, you gotta' squeeze somebody or you'll go out of business, right?
And
all the nice guys who want to pay their employees more are wringing
their
hands, because they've bought the bill of goods the rich guys are
feeding
them, and there's just nothing else they can do.

Maybe they'll pipe in some violin music.

--
Ed Huntress


If I had it to do all over again, I sure wouldn't be in manufacturing! I
see a number of friends that have cushy Government jobs making 5 times
what
I make and they are ready to retire in their 50s. Only a fool fights the
battles I do and get so little appreciation or even understanding that I'm
looking out for peoples' best interests.


If you're putting other people's best interests ahead of your own then you
really are in the wrong business, actually being in business at all. Take a
look at the guy who was running Countrywide Mortgage. He ruined the company,
cost thousands of people their jobs, drove the price of the stock into the
dirt, and helped create the housing mess we now have. But when Bank of
America bought the company he walked away from it with a 110 million dollar
payday. Now that's a businessman! He was putting his interests first. That's
the way a real capitalist does things. And nobody says or does anything
about him being over paid like those lazy union workers either. Things sure
are different when you're on top, huh? No such thing as too much pay for
those at the top is there, no matter how lousy a job they do?

Hawke



I have a lot of friends that own their own businesses, we all have a common
thread in that we treat our employees, suppliers and customers with honesty,
dignity and appreciation. We are all devout Christians, that has a lot to do
with it, you and the left might not understand because that is SOOO un-cool.

Tom Gardner wrote:



I have a lot of friends that own their own businesses, we all have a common
thread in that we treat our employees, suppliers and customers with honesty,
dignity and appreciation. We are all devout Christians, that has a lot to do
with it, you and the left might not understand because that is SOOO un-cool.




But there are others who do so appreciate what you said here...

Thanks, Tom


Richard
--
(remove the X to email)

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
t...

snip

If I had it to do all over again, I sure wouldn't be in manufacturing! I
see a number of friends that have cushy Government jobs making 5 times
what I make and they are ready to retire in their 50s. Only a fool fights
the battles I do and get so little appreciation or even understanding that
I'm looking out for peoples' best interests.

Yeah, well, I have old friends who are getting $5 million bonuses on Wall
Street, too, and they're just middle managers. We just picked the wrong
lines of work, Tom. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

Tom Gardner wrote:

I'm tired, my feet hurt and my fingers are numb. I've traded my health for
business ownership! I'll eventually sell the firm and have just enough for
health care and a good Irish funeral!

I could have joined some union and spent all my time figuring out how to cheat
and steal from my boss!


But you would have had to change your name to Ron.


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html


Use any search engine other than Google till they stop polluting USENET
with porn and junk commercial SPAM

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a lot of friends that own their own businesses, we all have a common
thread in that we treat our employees, suppliers and customers with honesty,
dignity and appreciation. We are all devout Christians, that has a lot to do
with it, you and the left might not understand because that is SOOO un-cool.


Good for you, Tom! )

I ran my business the same way, till my health started to fail.


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html


Use any search engine other than Google till they stop polluting USENET
with porn and junk commercial SPAM

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
t...

snip

If I had it to do all over again, I sure wouldn't be in manufacturing! I see
a number of friends that have cushy Government jobs making 5 times what I
make and they are ready to retire in their 50s. Only a fool fights the
battles I do and get so little appreciation or even understanding that I'm
looking out for peoples' best interests.

Yeah, well, I have old friends who are getting $5 million bonuses on Wall
Street, too, and they're just middle managers. We just picked the wrong lines
of work, Tom. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress


If there's such a thing as reincarnation...I'd go for happiness, accomplishment
and fulfillment. Money doesn't necessarily do that for you, it just provides
some tools that can easily be misused.

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
t...

snip

If I had it to do all over again, I sure wouldn't be in manufacturing!
I see a number of friends that have cushy Government jobs making 5 times
what I make and they are ready to retire in their 50s. Only a fool
fights the battles I do and get so little appreciation or even
understanding that I'm looking out for peoples' best interests.

Yeah, well, I have old friends who are getting $5 million bonuses on Wall
Street, too, and they're just middle managers. We just picked the wrong
lines of work, Tom. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress


If there's such a thing as reincarnation...I'd go for happiness,
accomplishment and fulfillment. Money doesn't necessarily do that for
you, it just provides some tools that can easily be misused.

Right. I'll take a pair of hipboots, a flyrod, and nobody knows where I am,
forever. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

Right. I'll take a pair of hipboots, a flyrod, and nobody knows where
I am, forever. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress



Hey, you would fit right in up here in da Keweenaw Peninsula.

"Jim" wrote in message
...

Right. I'll take a pair of hipboots, a flyrod, and nobody knows where
I am, forever. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress



Hey, you would fit right in up here in da Keweenaw Peninsula.

I used to hunt snowshoes on the Keweenaw Peninsula, near Eagle River. And I
spent an entire summer living out of an old Bell Telephone truck, fishing
for brookies all over the UP.

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 02:23:55 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Tom
Gardner" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:12:09 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Tom
Gardner" quickly quoth:

If I had it to do all over again, I sure wouldn't be in manufacturing! I
see a number of friends that have cushy Government jobs making 5 times what
I make and they are ready to retire in their 50s. Only a fool fights the
battles I do and get so little appreciation or even understanding that I'm
looking out for peoples' best interests.

Yeah, but YOU can sleep at night and have built up GOOD karma.

--
It is better to wear out than to rust out.
-- Bishop Richard Cumberland

I'm tired, my feet hurt and my fingers are numb. I've traded my health for
business ownership! I'll eventually sell the firm and have just enough for
health care and a good Irish funeral!

Irish funeral? Is that where they cremate the body in Scotch whiskey?


I could have joined some union and spent all my time figuring out how to cheat
and steal from my boss!

Yeah, and end up with MW Ron's karma? Not on your life!


--
It is better to wear out than to rust out.
-- Bishop Richard Cumberland

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
m...
Tom Gardner wrote:



I have a lot of friends that own their own businesses, we all have a
common thread in that we treat our employees, suppliers and customers
with honesty, dignity and appreciation. We are all devout Christians,
that has a lot to do with it, you and the left might not understand
because that is SOOO un-cool.


But there are others who do so appreciate what you said here...

Thanks, Tom


Richard

Thanks.
I believe the left doesn't believe in God so they will believe in anything
else!

"Tom Gardner" wrote in
t:


"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
m...
Tom Gardner wrote:



I have a lot of friends that own their own businesses, we all have a
common thread in that we treat our employees, suppliers and
customers with honesty, dignity and appreciation. We are all devout
Christians, that has a lot to do with it, you and the left might not
understand because that is SOOO un-cool.


But there are others who do so appreciate what you said here...

Thanks, Tom


Richard

Thanks.
I believe the left doesn't believe in God so they will believe in
anything else!




They believe that everyone is just like them thus they accuse everyone else
of doing what THEY would do if they only had the chance to do it.

BTW, Tom, Thanks!

"Tom Gardner" wrote in
:

If there's such a thing as reincarnation...I'd go for happiness,
accomplishment and fulfillment. Money doesn't necessarily do that for
you, it just provides some tools that can easily be misused.

My life has been like that, even though not even ONE of my plans ever
worked out. grin

Somebody else had other plans for me - plans which worked out even better
than those I'd come up with.

Heck, I hadn't even planned on living THIS long, much less be in what the
MDs say is unusually good health. GRIN

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:30:04 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Jim" wrote in message
...

Right. I'll take a pair of hipboots, a flyrod, and nobody knows where
I am, forever. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress



Hey, you would fit right in up here in da Keweenaw Peninsula.

I used to hunt snowshoes on the Keweenaw Peninsula, near Eagle River. And I
spent an entire summer living out of an old Bell Telephone truck, fishing
for brookies all over the UP.

What'd ya do, hang the bucket over the stream so you could see 'em
coming?

--
It is better to wear out than to rust out.
-- Bishop Richard Cumberland

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:30:04 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Jim" wrote in message
...

Right. I'll take a pair of hipboots, a flyrod, and nobody knows where
I am, forever. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress



Hey, you would fit right in up here in da Keweenaw Peninsula.

I used to hunt snowshoes on the Keweenaw Peninsula, near Eagle River. And
I
spent an entire summer living out of an old Bell Telephone truck, fishing
for brookies all over the UP.

What'd ya do, hang the bucket over the stream so you could see 'em
coming?

g No bucket. It was just an ancient Ford van, ex-New Jersey Bell, in ugly
green. Not something I'd want to live in for six weeks again, but I was 22
or 23 at the time.

--
Ed Huntress

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
snip
I'm tired, my feet hurt and my fingers are numb. I've traded my health for
business ownership! I'll eventually sell the firm and have just enough for
health care and a good Irish funeral!

Irish funeral? Is that where they cremate the body in Scotch whiskey?


Cremation is optional but there IS Scotch involved!




I could have joined some union and spent all my time figuring out how to cheat
and steal from my boss!

Yeah, and end up with MW Ron's karma? Not on your life!


--
It is better to wear out than to rust out.
-- Bishop Richard Cumberland

"Eregon" wrote in message
...
"Tom Gardner" wrote in
t:


"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
m...
Tom Gardner wrote:



I have a lot of friends that own their own businesses, we all have a
common thread in that we treat our employees, suppliers and
customers with honesty, dignity and appreciation. We are all devout
Christians, that has a lot to do with it, you and the left might not
understand because that is SOOO un-cool.


But there are others who do so appreciate what you said here...

Thanks, Tom


Richard

Thanks.
I believe the left doesn't believe in God so they will believe in
anything else!




They believe that everyone is just like them thus they accuse everyone else
of doing what THEY would do if they only had the chance to do it.

BTW, Tom, Thanks!


The fringe left have no accountability or responsibility, their value system is
based on the "hate du jour".

On Apr 16, 11:39*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Tom Gardner" wrote in message

...







"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
. net...

snip

If I had it to do all over again, I sure wouldn't be in manufacturing!
I see a number of friends that have cushy Government jobs making 5 times
what I make and they are ready to retire in their 50s. *Only a fool
fights the battles I do and get so little appreciation or even
understanding that I'm looking out for peoples' best interests.

Yeah, well, I have old friends who are getting $5 million bonuses on Wall
Street, too, and they're just middle managers. We just picked the wrong
lines of work, Tom. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

If there's such a thing as reincarnation...I'd go for happiness,
accomplishment and fulfillment. *Money doesn't necessarily do that for
you, it just provides some tools that can easily be misused.

Right. I'll take a pair of hipboots, a flyrod, and nobody knows where I am,
forever. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Ed have you ever fished the St.Joe river in North Idaho?
Millwright Ron

"Tom Gardner" wrote in
:

The fringe left have no accountability or responsibility, their value
system is based on the "hate du jour".

They HAVE a "value system"?

That's news to me - I've never seen any evidence of one from any of them...

"Millwright Ron" wrote in message
...
On Apr 16, 11:39 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Tom Gardner" wrote in message

snip


If there's such a thing as reincarnation...I'd go for happiness,
accomplishment and fulfillment. Money doesn't necessarily do that for
you, it just provides some tools that can easily be misused.

Right. I'll take a pair of hipboots, a flyrod, and nobody knows where I
am,
forever. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Ed have you ever fished the St.Joe river in North Idaho?
Millwright Ron

No, that western fishing is something I've missed. It must be great.

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:04:07 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Tom
Gardner" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
snip
I'm tired, my feet hurt and my fingers are numb. I've traded my health for
business ownership! I'll eventually sell the firm and have just enough for
health care and a good Irish funeral!

Irish funeral? Is that where they cremate the body in Scotch whiskey?


Cremation is optional but there IS Scotch involved!

Ah, like me, you must come from a Heinz family, not purebred Irish.
The latter would outlaw Scotch from the premises and go with Irish
Creme or Irish Whiskey, methinks.

--
The only difference between a rut and a grave...is in their dimensions.
-- Ellen Glasglow

Eregon wrote in
:

snip
They HAVE a "value system"?

That's news to me - I've never seen any evidence of one from any of
them...



Sure they do, Bush is evil, Bush is stupid, Bush is a neocon, Bush caused
Katrina, Bush faked the moon landing, Bush shot Lincoln, Bush is making
America's children fat, Bush personally pressed the button that brought
down the twin towers, etc.......

Not much of one but it is there.....

Bill