I toyed around with the idea and asked questions about indexable
tooling here two years ago when I first got my 7" X 14" lathe, and I
have decided to become more serious about it.

What I really wanted to start with was the 16N, but there is no cigar
for second place: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250227734204
(If it wasn't for the high bidder, I would have paid just over $60 for
it). :-(

The 16N tends to go so high that you might as well buy them new from
the manufacturer. There was one several months ago with a $60 Buy-It-
Now, but some genius decided to try to get it cheaper than that before
I could get to the auction.(Needless tosay, it went for a lot more
than $60).

Anyway, since most of my machining links went with the big PC crash of
2006, I was hoping that someone could direct me to some sites that
explain the characteristics and features of various indexable tooling.

My MSC catalog is two years old and I see stuff on their website that
is new to me.(however, I did win a 12N:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250227383836)

I just have to learn more about it. :-)

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Searcher7 wrote:

What I really wanted to start with was the 16N, but there is no cigar
for second place: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250227734204
(If it wasn't for the high bidder, I would have paid just over $60 for
it). :-(

Anyway, since most of my machining links went with the big PC crash of
2006, I was hoping that someone could direct me to some sites that
explain the characteristics and features of various indexable tooling.

I just have to learn more about it. :-)

http://www.aloris.com/pdfs/2006_Aloris_Catalog.pdf

Have you looked through their catalog? Link above.

Wes

On Mar 28, 10:10*am, Wes wrote:
wrote:
What I really wanted to start with was the 16N, but there is no cigar
for second place:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250227734204
(If it wasn't for the high bidder, I would have paid just over $60 for
it). :-(

Anyway, since most of my machining links went with the big PC crash of
2006, I was hoping that someone could direct me to some sites that
explain the characteristics and features of various indexable tooling.

I just have to learn more about it. :-)

http://www.aloris.com/pdfs/2006_Aloris_Catalog.pdf

Have you looked through their catalog? *Link above.

Wes

I downloaded that catalog a week ago.

But what I'm looking for is a tutorial.

For example, where would I go online to read the definition(with
images) of what a negative rake is, and whatit does?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

"Searcher7" wrote in message
...
On Mar 28, 10:10 am, Wes wrote:
wrote:
What I really wanted to start with was the 16N, but there is no cigar
for second
place:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250227734204
(If it wasn't for the high bidder, I would have paid just over $60 for
it). :-(

Anyway, since most of my machining links went with the big PC crash of
2006, I was hoping that someone could direct me to some sites that
explain the characteristics and features of various indexable tooling.

I just have to learn more about it. :-)

http://www.aloris.com/pdfs/2006_Aloris_Catalog.pdf

Have you looked through their catalog? Link above.

Wes

I downloaded that catalog a week ago.

But what I'm looking for is a tutorial.

For example, where would I go online to read the definition(with
images) of what a negative rake is, and whatit does?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Your best bet for that and related questions is _Machinery's Handbook_, any
year. If you don't have a copy, drive over to the Perth Amboy Public
Library. They have one on their reference shelf. There's another one at the
New York Public Library's 96th St. Branch. Maybe your local library can get
it on a loan. (Call number is 621.802 M.)

If you have other questions of that order about machining, you'll find
_Machinery's Handbook_ to be a gold mine.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mar 30, 12:43 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Searcher7" wrote in message

...
On Mar 28, 10:10 am, Wes wrote:





wrote:
What I really wanted to start with was the 16N, but there is no cigar
for second
place:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250227734204
(If it wasn't for the high bidder, I would have paid just over $60 for
it). :-(

Anyway, since most of my machining links went with the big PC crash of
2006, I was hoping that someone could direct me to some sites that
explain the characteristics and features of various indexable tooling.

I just have to learn more about it. :-)

http://www.aloris.com/pdfs/2006_Aloris_Catalog.pdf

Have you looked through their catalog? Link above.

Wes
I downloaded that catalog a week ago.
But what I'm looking for is a tutorial.
For example, where would I go online to read the definition(with
images) of what a negative rake is, and whatit does?
Thanks.
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Your best bet for that and related questions is _Machinery's Handbook_, any
year. If you don't have a copy, drive over to the Perth Amboy Public
Library. They have one on their reference shelf. There's another one at the
New York Public Library's 96th St. Branch. Maybe your local library can get
it on a loan. (Call number is 621.802 M.)

If you have other questions of that order about machining, you'll find
_Machinery's Handbook_ to be a gold mine.

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I actually have "Machinery's Handbook"(27th Edition).

But I was hoping there was a quick convenient reference guide online.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island,New York.

On Mar 31, 6:54*am, Wes wrote:
Searcher7 wrote:
For example, where would I go online to read the definition(with
images) of what a negative rake is, and whatit does?

Well it generally allows more cutting edges on an insert since no relief is
ground in. *The downside is that cutting forces are increased requiring a
rigid machine. *Light machines tend to do best with positive rake cutting
tools.

If you look at TPU or TPG insert (triangle positive unground) (triangle
positive ground) you will see one side has a larger perimeter than the outer
side, that is due to the rake or clearance the tool needs it can be inclined
in respect to the centerline of your work piece with out rubbing.

Now a TNG has to be declined in respect to the centerline as not to rub. *It
will remove metal but now you need a more rigid machine and your stock is
subjected to heaver forces. *

My worn 10" South Bend can use negative top rake only for light cuts,
which is OK for HSS but apparently not so good for carbide.

Look at a wood plane. *It is an example of positive rake. *The metalworking
equivalent of negative rake would be to flip the blade and run plane
backwards.
Wes

Or a scraper.

Several tool company catalogs have descriptions of carbide types and
geometry. Their recommendations for turning stainless have worked for
me but not the ones for mild or tool steel, so I use HSS.

Jim Wilkins

The MSC catalog has a pretty good tutorial on the subject.
I don't know whether the online version has the same detail, but you
can look: www.mscdirect.com, I think.
I wouldn't spend much time on negative rake inserts unless you have a
pretty solid lathe. Remember that you have to force the cutting tool
into the work to get it to cut. If you are "forcing" a positive rake
insert into the work, the included angle of the edge is less than 90
degrees (somewhat acute). A negative rake cutting edge is has a 90
degree angle or more. Less acute, (less "sharp") = more pressure
required to get it to cut = more bending of the the machine before tool
gets pushed into the work = less precision of setting a cut.
Try taking a 1/2 thou cut with even a TPU (7° positive rake) insert.
Then try again with a 12° HSS tool. See which one takes of the metal.
If they both do, then you can think about "N".

I know because I have an Atlas 10" lathe,
Pete Stanaitis
---------------------

Searcher7 wrote:

On Mar 28, 10:10 am, Wes wrote:

wrote:

What I really wanted to start with was the 16N, but there is no cigar
for second place:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250227734204
(If it wasn't for the high bidder, I would have paid just over $60 for
it). :-(

Anyway, since most of my machining links went with the big PC crash of
2006, I was hoping that someone could direct me to some sites that
explain the characteristics and features of various indexable tooling.

I just have to learn more about it. :-)

http://www.aloris.com/pdfs/2006_Aloris_Catalog.pdf

Have you looked through their catalog? Link above.

Wes


I downloaded that catalog a week ago.

But what I'm looking for is a tutorial.

For example, where would I go online to read the definition(with
images) of what a negative rake is, and whatit does?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 07:08:12 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Mar 31, 6:54*am, Wes wrote:
Searcher7 wrote:
For example, where would I go online to read the definition(with
images) of what a negative rake is, and whatit does?

Well it generally allows more cutting edges on an insert since no relief is
ground in. *The downside is that cutting forces are increased requiring a
rigid machine. *Light machines tend to do best with positive rake cutting
tools.

If you look at TPU or TPG insert (triangle positive unground) (triangle
positive ground) you will see one side has a larger perimeter than the outer
side, that is due to the rake or clearance the tool needs it can be inclined
in respect to the centerline of your work piece with out rubbing.

Now a TNG has to be declined in respect to the centerline as not to rub. *It
will remove metal but now you need a more rigid machine and your stock is
subjected to heaver forces. *

My worn 10" South Bend can use negative top rake only for light cuts,
which is OK for HSS but apparently not so good for carbide.

Look at a wood plane. *It is an example of positive rake. *The metalworking
equivalent of negative rake would be to flip the blade and run plane
backwards.
Wes

Or a scraper.


NOPE - a cabinet makers scraper, properly prepared, actually has a
high degree of positive rake, even if only for a very short distance.


Several tool company catalogs have descriptions of carbide types and
geometry. Their recommendations for turning stainless have worked for
me but not the ones for mild or tool steel, so I use HSS.

Jim Wilkins
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Mar 31, 6:54*pm, Gerald Miller wrote:

Look at a wood plane. *It is an example of positive rake. *The metalworking
equivalent of negative rake would be to flip the blade and run plane
backwards.
Wes

Or a scraper.

NOPE *- a cabinet makers scraper, properly prepared, actually has a
high degree of positive rake, even if only for a very short distance.
Jim Wilkins

Gerry :-)}
London, Canada-

I haven't seen anyone properly burnish a scraper edge since jr high
school wood shop in the '50's. The scrapers we can buy now at HD are
only good for removing paint.

Jim Wilkins

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Mar 31, 6:54 pm, Gerald Miller wrote:

Look at a wood plane. It is an example of positive rake. The
metalworking
equivalent of negative rake would be to flip the blade and run plane
backwards.
Wes

Or a scraper.

NOPE - a cabinet makers scraper, properly prepared, actually has a
high degree of positive rake, even if only for a very short distance.
Jim Wilkins

Gerry :-)}
London, Canada-

I haven't seen anyone properly burnish a scraper edge since jr high
school wood shop in the '50's. The scrapers we can buy now at HD are
only good for removing paint.

Buy a Sandvik hand scraper. It's made just right for turning over the edge
and burnishing. I also have some Stanleys, but they aren't as hard.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mar 31, 7:41*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
...
Buy a Sandvik hand scraper. It's made just right for turning over the edge
and burnishing. I also have some Stanleys, but they aren't as hard.
Ed Huntress

Husqvarna is more appropriate for the kind of woodworking I do.

Jim Wilkins

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Mar 31, 7:41 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
...
Buy a Sandvik hand scraper. It's made just right for turning over the edge
and burnishing. I also have some Stanleys, but they aren't as hard.
Ed Huntress

Husqvarna is more appropriate for the kind of woodworking I do.

Jim Wilkins

Hmmm. Nice finish. d8-)

We have one of those guys who carves Indian chiefs and eagles out of
standing stumps with a chainsaw in my town (and he's an ice sculptor and
taxidermist, too). It's hard to believe the accuracy and detail he can
achieve. I think he's a Stihl man.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mar 31, 3:41*pm, spaco wrote:
The MSC catalog has a pretty good tutorial on the subject.
* *I don't know whether the online version has the same detail, but you
can look: *www.mscdirect.com, I think.
* I wouldn't spend much time on negative rake inserts unless you have a
pretty solid lathe. *Remember that you have to force the cutting tool
into the work to get it to cut. *If you are "forcing" a positive rake
insert into the work, the included angle of the edge is less than 90
degrees (somewhat acute). *A negative rake cutting edge is has a 90
degree angle or more. *Less acute, (less "sharp") = more pressure
required to get it to cut = more bending of the the machine before tool
gets pushed into the work = less precision of setting a cut.
* * Try taking a 1/2 thou cut with even a TPU (7° positive rake) insert.
Then try again with a 12° HSS tool. * See which one takes of the metal..
* *If they both do, then you can think about "N".

I know because I have an Atlas 10" lathe,
Pete Stanaitis
---------------------



Searcher7wrote:
On Mar 28, 10:10 am, Wes wrote:

wrote:

What I really wanted to start with was the 16N, but there is no cigar
for second place:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250227734204
(If it wasn't for the high bidder, I would have paid just over $60 for
it). :-(

Anyway, since most of my machining links went with the big PC crash of
2006, I was hoping that someone could direct me to some sites that
explain the characteristics and features of various indexable tooling.

I just have to learn more about it. :-)

http://www.aloris.com/pdfs/2006_Aloris_Catalog.pdf

Have you looked through their catalog? *Link above.

Wes

I downloaded that catalog a week ago.

But what I'm looking for is a tutorial.

For example, where would I go online to read the definition(with
images) of what a negative rake is, and whatit does?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So is everyone saying that my AXA 12N with my mini-lathe is not a good
idea for any metals?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Isalnd, New York.

On Apr 12, 11:54*am, Searcher7 wrote:

So is everyone saying that my AXA 12N with my mini-lathe is not a good
idea for any metals?
Darren Harris

I don't speak for everyone, but I was saying that negative rake
doesn't always work WELL on my old lathe. Or maybe I haven't learned
how to use it. Try it, see what happens.

Jim Wilkins

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 10:01:21 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Apr 12, 11:54*am, Searcher7 wrote:

So is everyone saying that my AXA 12N with my mini-lathe is not a good
idea for any metals?
Darren Harris

I don't speak for everyone, but I was saying that negative rake
doesn't always work WELL on my old lathe. Or maybe I haven't learned
how to use it. Try it, see what happens.

Jim Wilkins


Negative rake works very well on some materials, but only if the lathe
is strong, rigid and tight.

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr