I have a new tool post for my lathe:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7596326685

Now I'm moving into the tooling phase. I'm told to avoid the cheap sets
of insert tooling which offer five tools in one set(each at a slightly
different angle),because the inserts tend to break easily, there is no
carbide anvil to support the inserts, and the inserts are more
expensive than common industrial ones.

I'm guessing that the reference was to sets like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7542676470

The designations for the inserts are still confusing because it seems
like every manufacturer uses their own numbers. The only way to know
which are quality tools, what the numbers mean, and the ease and cost
of insert replacement is to ask those who have experience.

So can anyone give me recommendations?

Now. I would like to cover all bases with as much ridigity as possible.

A) Facing
B) Turning
C) Boring
D) Threading(Outside)
E) Threading(Inside)
F) Cut-off(Parting)/Grooving

Any thoughts on these?(Or they also the "cheap" tools that I'm told to
avoid?).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7586286270
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7553892781

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

wrote:

I have a new tool post for my lathe:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7596326685

Now I'm moving into the tooling phase. I'm told to avoid the cheap sets
of insert tooling which offer five tools in one set(each at a slightly
different angle),because the inserts tend to break easily, there is no
carbide anvil to support the inserts, and the inserts are more
expensive than common industrial ones.

I don't agree with this. I have a set, 1/2" shank, and they work well. I bought
a whole bunch of TT-321 inserts for about a buck apiece (had to buy like 500 to
get that price) and they last a reasonably long time as long as I don't do
something dumb. I was turning some 303 stainless the other day on my 9" South
Bend (not the most rigid beast) and it came out like chrome using one of these
inserted tools.

Anyway, if your lathe is 10" or smaller the tribal wisdom on this NG is to use
HSS tooling and learn to grind it correctly. HSS toolbits are cheap, and if you
practice a little, easy to grind to get a good cut. Invest in some hand stones
if you do go with HSS; you will be stoning the edges a lot.

GWE



I'm guessing that the reference was to sets like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7542676470

The designations for the inserts are still confusing because it seems
like every manufacturer uses their own numbers. The only way to know
which are quality tools, what the numbers mean, and the ease and cost
of insert replacement is to ask those who have experience.

So can anyone give me recommendations?

Now. I would like to cover all bases with as much ridigity as possible.

A) Facing
B) Turning
C) Boring
D) Threading(Outside)
E) Threading(Inside)
F) Cut-off(Parting)/Grooving

Any thoughts on these?(Or they also the "cheap" tools that I'm told to
avoid?).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7586286270
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7553892781

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I have a new tool post for my lathe:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7596326685

Now I'm moving into the tooling phase. I'm told to avoid the cheap sets
of insert tooling which offer five tools in one set(each at a slightly
different angle),because the inserts tend to break easily, there is no
carbide anvil to support the inserts, and the inserts are more
expensive than common industrial ones.

I'm guessing that the reference was to sets like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7542676470

The designations for the inserts are still confusing because it seems
like every manufacturer uses their own numbers. The only way to know
which are quality tools, what the numbers mean, and the ease and cost
of insert replacement is to ask those who have experience.

So can anyone give me recommendations?

Now. I would like to cover all bases with as much ridigity as possible.

A) Facing
B) Turning
C) Boring
D) Threading(Outside)
E) Threading(Inside)
F) Cut-off(Parting)/Grooving

Any thoughts on these?(Or they also the "cheap" tools that I'm told to
avoid?).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7586286270
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7553892781

I don't agree with this. I have a set, 1/2" shank, and they work well. I bought
a whole bunch of TT-321 inserts for about a buck apiece (had to buy like 500 to
get that price) and they last a reasonably long time as long as I don't do
something dumb. I was turning some 303 stainless the other day on my 9" South
Bend (not the most rigid beast) and it came out like chrome using one of these
inserted tools.

Anyway, if your lathe is 10" or smaller the tribal wisdom on this NG is to use
HSS tooling and learn to grind it correctly. HSS toolbits are cheap, and if you
practice a little, easy to grind to get a good cut. Invest in some hand stones
if you do go with HSS; you will be stoning the edges a lot.

???

I've gotten unanimous recommendations for insert tooling, as far as
what's easier *and* more cost effective in the long run.

It seems that grinding those angles perfect would be a PITA, and I've
yet to find a good tutorial for this.

My lathe is a 7" X 14". I've never read anything about using HSS if
one's lathe is under 10". Does that mean HSS as opposed to insert
tooling? And if so, what would be the reason for this?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

wrote:
Grant Erwin wrote:
Anyway, if your lathe is 10" or smaller the tribal wisdom on this NG is to use
HSS tooling and learn to grind it correctly. HSS toolbits are cheap, and if you
practice a little, easy to grind to get a good cut. Invest in some hand stones
if you do go with HSS; you will be stoning the edges a lot.
....
I've gotten unanimous recommendations for insert tooling, as far as
what's easier *and* more cost effective in the long run.

It seems that grinding those angles perfect would be a PITA, and I've
yet to find a good tutorial for this.

My lathe is a 7" X 14". I've never read anything about using HSS if
one's lathe is under 10". Does that mean HSS as opposed to insert
tooling? And if so, what would be the reason for this?
....
Grant is right that the received wisdom in rec.crafts.metalworking
is to use "scary sharp" HSS bits on small lathes. Some of the usual
reasons are that carbide inserts ordinarily are not as sharp; may use
more negative rake with consequently increased cutting force,
so work better on more-rigid machines; and for good finish usually
should be run at higher speed than small machines have power for.
While it is true that insert tooling is easier to use [at least
when starting out] the idea that it's "more cost effective in the
long run" is questionable. Anyway, for your 7x14 lathe, I think
you should have a set of 5/16"- or 3/8"-shank carbide insert
tooling and should also learn to grind good angles on HSS tooling.
For some materials, eg aluminum and some stainless, in my
experience you get ok finishes with carbide inserts; but when
turning mild steel to diameter, I often get rougher surface finish
than I like, with carbide inserts on my 7x10.

Note, to see some of the other 202 threads about this issue, hit
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%2...ake%22+carbide

-jiw

According to :
I have a new tool post for my lathe:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7596326685

O.K. That looks like AXA size (probably Phase-II series 100).
And hopefully, you also have gotten the modified toolpost to put the top
edge of the tools at the centerline, as without that, they will be too
high for your machine.

For those holders in general, you will want 1/2" tool shanks
(the largest which your holders will accept, just as 5/8" is the largest
that my BXA series will accept.

Now I'm moving into the tooling phase. I'm told to avoid the cheap sets
of insert tooling which offer five tools in one set(each at a slightly
different angle),because the inserts tend to break easily, there is no
carbide anvil to support the inserts, and the inserts are more
expensive than common industrial ones.

I'm guessing that the reference was to sets like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7542676470

These are exactly the ones which I meant.

The designations for the inserts are still confusing because it seems
like every manufacturer uses their own numbers. The only way to know
which are quality tools, what the numbers mean, and the ease and cost
of insert replacement is to ask those who have experience.

First off -- have you found the charts of insert sizes in your
MSC catalog? (It is good for more than just ordering tools. :-) There
are charts of the numbering scheme from at least two makers of inserts.

So can anyone give me recommendations?

Now. I would like to cover all bases with as much ridigity as possible.

A) Facing
B) Turning

O.K. For that, I would suggest the Aloris AXA-16 or AXA-16N
toolholder. It handles both boring and turning with one holder (two
inserts -- one at either end. It should be at page 1626 in the MSC Big
Book. As far as I can tell -- none of the other companies yet make ones
like this.

Here is what it (the 16N version) looks like:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...PMT4NO=6186276

The 16N is for negative rake inserts, but there are inserts for it which
have a chipbreaker groove so designed to make the actual rake positive.
But, you still get six corners, as you can flip the insert upside down
after the first three corners are used up. The ones which are positive
rake only give you only three corners.

This has a built-in chipbreaker for each insert which is part of
the clamp which holds it.

You set the height once -- and that is right for both the
turning and the facing inserts.

You'll have to order the proper size inserts for it. I could
tell you the proper ones for the BXA-16N, but the AXA-16N takes a
smaller size. (Ask MSC when you call them.)

C) Boring

Lots of choices -- and they tend to be weaker than the turning
and facing tooling. And there does not seem to be room for carbide
anvils with those.

Those that you found below (the 7586286270, IIRC) will probably
do. Just make sure that you can get more inserts for them.

D) Threading(Outside)
E) Threading(Inside)

For those, you will need different tooling and different inserts.
Look in the MSC catalog under the names Valenite and Iscar. Find the
shanks first, in the proper 1/2" shank size. Then from there, find the
inserts for the threading which you want to do.

Look on page 667 for both external and internal holders (not the
miniature ones, I think), and the threading inserts.

Beware that you cannot use the same inserts for internal and
external threading. The "spur" is on a different side of the corner for
each.

F) Cut-off(Parting)/Grooving

You've got a good holder with the toolpost set. I personally
would go for the T-profile Cleveland Mo-Max parting tools. They are the
"P" type blades. Go to page 550, and select the height to fit your
holder. (I use the BXA, so the size for mine will be different.) Given
the probable power of your spindle motor, I would suggest going for the
narrowest of these blades which you can find to fit.

Any thoughts on these?(Or they also the "cheap" tools that I'm told to
avoid?).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7586286270

This looks like a potentially useful set. And the wrenches (and
screws) are the special Torx ones, instead of the Allen keys which round
out rather quickly on the cheap sets.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7553892781

And this one is particularly interesting. Note that the
included angle for the threading tool (LW) is 55 degrees. This is right
for cutting Whitworth threads, but you are highly unlikely to be cutting
those. 60 degrees is far more likely.

The two of the remaining tools appear to use the tiny 55 degree
insert which the tools for my Compact-5/CNC uses. They are very nice,
and the inserts which I have are very sharp (no TiN coating), but hard
to find. I lucked into a large bag of them from another regular on this
newsgroup several years ago.

I use one of these on the Big Clausing, when I need a nicer
finish, instead of quicker cutting and greater rigidity.

Unfortunately, there are two other insert styles not counting
the grooving/parting tool.

These are too small to offer the carbide anvils, but seem to
hold up a lot better than the cheap sets -- even in the same machine.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:
According to :
I have a new tool post for my lathe:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7596326685

O.K. That looks like AXA size (probably Phase-II series 100).
And hopefully, you also have gotten the modified toolpost to put the top
edge of the tools at the centerline, as without that, they will be too
high for your machine.

The 3 or 4 eBay sellers of this tool post either couldn't give me info
on it or basically said that a slight modification is needed to attach
it to the lathe it will be used on.

For those holders in general, you will want 1/2" tool shanks
(the largest which your holders will accept, just as 5/8" is the largest
that my BXA series will accept.

Yes. And the #4 will take up to a 3/4" boring bar.

Now I'm moving into the tooling phase. I'm told to avoid the cheap sets
of insert tooling which offer five tools in one set(each at a slightly
different angle),because the inserts tend to break easily, there is no
carbide anvil to support the inserts, and the inserts are more
expensive than common industrial ones.

I'm guessing that the reference was to sets like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7542676470

These are exactly the ones which I meant.

The designations for the inserts are still confusing because it seems
like every manufacturer uses their own numbers. The only way to know
which are quality tools, what the numbers mean, and the ease and cost
of insert replacement is to ask those who have experience.

First off -- have you found the charts of insert sizes in your
MSC catalog? (It is good for more than just ordering tools. :-) There
are charts of the numbering scheme from at least two makers of inserts.

MSC:The Big Book
****************
Index Page 557: Carbide Inserts & Indexable Tooling
Page 558: Carbide Insert Cross Reference Chart.
Page 559: ANSI Insert Nomenclature
Page 560: Carbide Grade Cross Reference Chart
Page 561-562 Milling Insert Grade Chart & Turning Speed
Recommendations
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
***Page 603: Basics of... Indexable Toolholder Nomenclature
Page 613: Toolholder/Boring Bar Parts and Components
*Page 625: (MFG Advice) Seco/Carboloy(Cut-off & Deep Grooving
System)
Page 650: (Valenite) Threading & Grooving Tool Holders
Nomenclature
Page 651: (Valenite) Grooving Inserts Nomenclature
Page 652: (Valenite) Threading Inserts Problems and Solutions
Page 653: (Valenite) Thread Inserts/Boring Bar Nomenclature
***Page 661: Basics of... Carbide Threading System Nomenclature
Page 669: Threading System Nomenclature
Page 670: (Seco/Carboloy) S-Type Threading Inserty System
***Page 740: Basics Of... Boring Bars
Page 748: (Circle) Precision Boring Tools - Technical Information


So can anyone give me recommendations?

Now. I would like to cover all bases with as much ridigity as possible.

A) Facing
B) Turning

O.K. For that, I would suggest the Aloris AXA-16 or AXA-16N
toolholder. It handles both boring and turning with one holder (two
inserts -- one at either end. It should be at page 1626 in the MSC Big
Book. As far as I can tell -- none of the other companies yet make ones
like this.

I was actually looking at one on eBay(7603410647). But I didn't bid
because it wasn't the "N" version. However, looking at the price of
these in the MSC catalog makes me wonder if I really need such a tool
holder for such a relatively weak lathe. Are you really saying that the
16N inserts(that allow 6 usuable corners) are in the long run more cost
effective than other tool holder/insert options?(Especially since the
inserts are probably expensive also).

Here is what it (the 16N version) looks like:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...PMT4NO=6186276

The 16N is for negative rake inserts, but there are inserts for it which
have a chipbreaker groove so designed to make the actual rake positive.
But, you still get six corners, as you can flip the insert upside down
after the first three corners are used up. The ones which are positive
rake only give you only three corners.

This has a built-in chipbreaker for each insert which is part of
the clamp which holds it.

You set the height once -- and that is right for both the
turning and the facing inserts.

You'll have to order the proper size inserts for it. I could
tell you the proper ones for the BXA-16N, but the AXA-16N takes a
smaller size. (Ask MSC when you call them.)

C) Boring

Lots of choices -- and they tend to be weaker than the turning
and facing tooling. And there does not seem to be room for carbide
anvils with those.

Those that you found below (the 7586286270, IIRC) will probably
do. Just make sure that you can get more inserts for them.

I wouldn't know how to go about that. I couldn't find them in the MSC
catalog. And the seller doesn't answer the phone or return
e-mails(unless it's an e-mail invoice).

D) Threading(Outside)
E) Threading(Inside)

For those, you will need different tooling and different inserts.
Look in the MSC catalog under the names Valenite and Iscar. Find the
shanks first, in the proper 1/2" shank size. Then from there, find the
inserts for the threading which you want to do.

Perhaps I should drop the idea of internal threading on a lathe. I
would love to be able to make some deep thread in small diameter holes
and will concentrate on the hand taps for this. I did pass up on these:
7603091649-7603091640-7603091620 and I'm wondering if I erred.(I know
you don't like purchasing loose tooling).

Look on page 667 for both external and internal holders (not the
miniature ones, I think), and the threading inserts.

The external one(SER 0500 F16) at almost $100 makes me think that I
should probably practice with a cheap eBay holder first. :-)

Beware that you cannot use the same inserts for internal and
external threading. The "spur" is on a different side of the corner for
each.

F) Cut-off(Parting)/Grooving

You've got a good holder with the toolpost set. I personally
would go for the T-profile Cleveland Mo-Max parting tools. They are the
"P" type blades. Go to page 550, and select the height to fit your
holder. (I use the BXA, so the size for mine will be different.) Given
the probable power of your spindle motor, I would suggest going for the
narrowest of these blades which you can find to fit.

I guess that would be the 0.040" thick, 1/2" high, 3-1/2" long
blade.(I'd just have to decide between HSS and Cobalt).

Any thoughts on these?(Or they also the "cheap" tools that I'm told to
avoid?).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7586286270

This looks like a potentially useful set. And the wrenches (and
screws) are the special Torx ones, instead of the Allen keys which round
out rather quickly on the cheap sets.

Here's another set from the same seller: 3868312551. But it seems too
limited,(and it doesn't use the hex scres you mentioned).
Realistically, I'd like to be able to srill/bore/ream/thread a 1/4"
diameter hole deep enough to allow a screw rod a 2-1/2" to 3-1/2"
travel, for one of my projects. :-)

This is the seller I've gooten most of the lathe realted items from.
But his ads seems to have at least one or more issues:
Not enough info on these: 3850535882
No hex screws that you mentioned: 3875494246
One of the cheap sets to avoid: 7557708701

By the way I did wins some Boring head shanks: 7603073759.(Just for the
MT2 one of course). :-)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7553892781

And this one is particularly interesting. Note that the
included angle for the threading tool (LW) is 55 degrees. This is right
for cutting Whitworth threads, but you are highly unlikely to be cutting
those. 60 degrees is far more likely.

Yes. I noticed that. I'll be staying witht he commen standards for the
most part. External thread tooling that will correspons to the tap &
drill set I mentioned I ordered. So I'll forgo that tooling set.

The two of the remaining tools appear to use the tiny 55 degree
insert which the tools for my Compact-5/CNC uses. They are very nice,
and the inserts which I have are very sharp (no TiN coating), but hard
to find. I lucked into a large bag of them from another regular on this
newsgroup several years ago.

Easy to get(and hopefully relatively cheap) inserts are also a priority
for the holders I get.

I use one of these on the Big Clausing, when I need a nicer
finish, instead of quicker cutting and greater rigidity.

Unfortunately, there are two other insert styles not counting
the grooving/parting tool.

These are too small to offer the carbide anvils, but seem to
hold up a lot better than the cheap sets -- even in the same machine.

I like to think that my lathe's lack of power will ensure that I won't
run into some of your problems. :-)

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

According to :

DoN. Nichols wrote:
According to :
I have a new tool post for my lathe:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7596326685

O.K. That looks like AXA size (probably Phase-II series 100).
And hopefully, you also have gotten the modified toolpost to put the top
edge of the tools at the centerline, as without that, they will be too
high for your machine.

The 3 or 4 eBay sellers of this tool post either couldn't give me info
on it or basically said that a slight modification is needed to attach
it to the lathe it will be used on.

The "slight modification" is the reshaping of the steel plate
which becomes the T-slot nut for most normal lathes.

For *your* lathe, as shown by the URLs which you have posted
from the importer, you *need* a modified compound -- on which has been
milled so it is not as tall. Otherwise, you will not be able to get
your tools adjusted low enough to reach the spindle's center line.

You *must* either get this modified compound to use the AXA size
toolpost, or get a stand-alone milling machine to make the modifications
on your own.

The part which gets the "slight modification" for normal lathes
is simply tossed aside, and the center rod screws directly into your
compound.

Until you get that modified compound, you *can't* use your
new toolpost.

For those holders in general, you will want 1/2" tool shanks
(the largest which your holders will accept, just as 5/8" is the largest
that my BXA series will accept.

Yes. And the #4 will take up to a 3/4" boring bar.

O.K.

[ ... ]

The designations for the inserts are still confusing because it seems
like every manufacturer uses their own numbers. The only way to know
which are quality tools, what the numbers mean, and the ease and cost
of insert replacement is to ask those who have experience.

First off -- have you found the charts of insert sizes in your
MSC catalog? (It is good for more than just ordering tools. :-) There
are charts of the numbering scheme from at least two makers of inserts.

MSC:The Big Book
****************
Index Page 557: Carbide Inserts & Indexable Tooling
Page 558: Carbide Insert Cross Reference Chart.
Page 559: ANSI Insert Nomenclature
Page 560: Carbide Grade Cross Reference Chart
Page 561-562 Milling Insert Grade Chart & Turning Speed
Recommendations

I have made what recommendations I am willing to spend the time
on. I type with the keyboard on my lap, and typing with the MSC catalog
in my lap (there is no other place to put it) is just too awkward. I
did web searches for what I posted before.

[ ... ]

O.K. For that, I would suggest the Aloris AXA-16 or AXA-16N
toolholder. It handles both boring and turning with one holder (two
inserts -- one at either end. It should be at page 1626 in the MSC Big
Book. As far as I can tell -- none of the other companies yet make ones
like this.

I was actually looking at one on eBay(7603410647). But I didn't bid
because it wasn't the "N" version.

The price was dirt cheap. It would have been worth while to use
with the normal inserts, and save the purchase of the 16N version until
when one comes up.

However, looking at the price of
these in the MSC catalog makes me wonder if I really need such a tool
holder for such a relatively weak lathe. Are you really saying that the
16N inserts(that allow 6 usuable corners) are in the long run more cost
effective than other tool holder/insert options?(Especially since the
inserts are probably expensive also).

The inserts are less expensive than the ones for the junk sets,
especially when MSC puts them on sale. Plus, you can sometimes luck
into 100-quantity lots (with perhaps the wrong holder) on eBay. I got
some with 3/4" shank holders, which I had to mill down to 5/8" to fit
the BXA toolpost tool holders which I use.

And the particular advantage of the 16N (or the 16) is that you
need only one holder for most of your work (other than threading), and
that frees two holders for things like threading tooling. I have about
ten normal holders, plus the BXA-16N.

C) Boring

Lots of choices -- and they tend to be weaker than the turning
and facing tooling. And there does not seem to be room for carbide
anvils with those.

Those that you found below (the 7586286270, IIRC) will probably
do. Just make sure that you can get more inserts for them.

I wouldn't know how to go about that. I couldn't find them in the MSC
catalog. And the seller doesn't answer the phone or return
e-mails(unless it's an e-mail invoice).

In which case, you may need to skip them.

D) Threading(Outside)
E) Threading(Inside)

For those, you will need different tooling and different inserts.
Look in the MSC catalog under the names Valenite and Iscar. Find the
shanks first, in the proper 1/2" shank size. Then from there, find the
inserts for the threading which you want to do.

Perhaps I should drop the idea of internal threading on a lathe. I
would love to be able to make some deep thread in small diameter holes

Hmm ... small holes don't go well with single-point threading,
so you don't need the insert tooling for that. I generally use mine for
internal threading of holes 1" and larger.

and will concentrate on the hand taps for this. I did pass up on these:
7603091649-7603091640-7603091620 and I'm wondering if I erred.(I know
you don't like purchasing loose tooling).

I find myself wondering why you even *considered* these. They
are what are know as "pulley taps", designed for threading holes for
setscrews in the hubs of pulleys, where a normal tap can't reach because
of the diameter of the tap wrench.

Note that each of these (which are probably pretty good, in that
they still have the protective wax over the cutting parts) have a section
where the shank is the diameter of the full size of the thread before
going to the extended reduced shank. This means that you *cannot* tap a
hole any deeper than you could with a normal tap. You can simply reach
a hole which is otherwise awkward to reach, but you can tap no deeper.

Why do you need deep tapped holes, anyway? Normally, you don't
really need any more than the diameter of the thread worth of thread
length for full strength. Any more simply adds to the wear of the taps.

Look on page 667 for both external and internal holders (not the
miniature ones, I think), and the threading inserts.

The external one(SER 0500 F16) at almost $100 makes me think that I
should probably practice with a cheap eBay holder first. :-)

If you are after small diameter threads, you want taps and
possibly dies in a sliding die holder. And single point threading is
not going to work for deep holes anyway -- even with larger holes.

The external one is probably better for your use than an
internal one. I do have one special internal one small enough to
(barely) manage internal threading of 1/4-20 or perhaps 1/4-28. And I
would do that only on the little CNC lathe, because you can't see enough
with internal threading that small to do it manually -- except perhaps
with a steep learning curve (e.g. many broken inserts.)

[ ... ]

F) Cut-off(Parting)/Grooving

You've got a good holder with the toolpost set. I personally
would go for the T-profile Cleveland Mo-Max parting tools. They are the
"P" type blades. Go to page 550, and select the height to fit your
holder. (I use the BXA, so the size for mine will be different.) Given
the probable power of your spindle motor, I would suggest going for the
narrowest of these blades which you can find to fit.

I guess that would be the 0.040" thick, 1/2" high, 3-1/2" long
blade.(I'd just have to decide between HSS and Cobalt).

Cobalt. It costs more, but it is tougher. It is what I use for
most parting.

Any thoughts on these?(Or they also the "cheap" tools that I'm told to
avoid?).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7586286270

This looks like a potentially useful set. And the wrenches (and
screws) are the special Torx ones, instead of the Allen keys which round
out rather quickly on the cheap sets.

Here's another set from the same seller: 3868312551. But it seems too
limited,(and it doesn't use the hex scres you mentioned).

It uses the Torx screws which I mentioned, The hex ones are the
ones to be avoided. You can usually tell (even if the photo is poor) by
the wrench having a plastic flag molded over it, usually with a straight
extension for spinning the screw down until you get to the point where
you need to actually tighten it, at which point you shift your grip to
the flag.

Realistically, I'd like to be able to srill/bore/ream/thread a 1/4"
diameter hole deep enough to allow a screw rod a 2-1/2" to 3-1/2"
travel, for one of my projects. :-)

Forget single point threading with insert tools for your 1/4"
thread.

Is there any reason why the hold can't be drilled clearance
diameter for part of the way, and threaded only part?

This is the seller I've gooten most of the lathe realted items from.
But his ads seems to have at least one or more issues:
Not enough info on these: 3850535882

Not for a lathe. Those are milling cutters -- and not even end
mills, given the orientation of the inserts. You won't need them
until you get a stand-alone milling machine.

No hex screws that you mentioned: 3875494246

Those *do* have the screws which you want.

However, they are for use in a boring head in a milling machine.
And one large enough so I suspect that you'll never get the machine to
fit it upstairs. Those have 3/4" diameter shanks. Too big to fit in
the normal tool holders for your quick change toolpost. (Though perhaps
in the boring bar holder.) Yes -- you said that that will accept 3/4"
shanks.

Of course, there is no clue who made them, or where.

One of the cheap sets to avoid: 7557708701

Yep - avoid.

By the way I did wins some Boring head shanks: 7603073759.(Just for the
MT2 one of course). :-)

Hmm ... without knowing what thread your boring head will need?
And a boring head is not useful in the toolpost or in the tailstock. It
needs to be rotating, which means that you will need it to fit the
headstock spindle taper (which I *think* was MT-3, not MT-2).

[ ... ]

The two of the remaining tools appear to use the tiny 55 degree
insert which the tools for my Compact-5/CNC uses. They are very nice,
and the inserts which I have are very sharp (no TiN coating), but hard
to find. I lucked into a large bag of them from another regular on this
newsgroup several years ago.

Easy to get(and hopefully relatively cheap) inserts are also a priority
for the holders I get.

And here, you are locked into a single vendor, until you can
find the proper designation, and find them in MSC or elsewhere. (Or can
luck into a bag like I did -- but that was a couple of hundred dollars,
IIRC.

[ ... ]

These are too small to offer the carbide anvils, but seem to
hold up a lot better than the cheap sets -- even in the same machine.

I like to think that my lathe's lack of power will ensure that I won't
run into some of your problems. :-)

But the relative lack of rigidity can exacerbate the problems.
It can cause the insert to dig in and lean into the workpiece, thus
stressing the carbide insert to failure.

I will proably not answer for a while. I am reaching burnout
answering your questions -- and seeing you buying things without the
proper accessories -- such as the toolpost without the modified
compound.

You'll eventually learn.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:
According to :

DoN. Nichols wrote:
According to :
I have a new tool post for my lathe:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7596326685

O.K. That looks like AXA size (probably Phase-II series 100).
And hopefully, you also have gotten the modified toolpost to put the top
edge of the tools at the centerline, as without that, they will be too
high for your machine.

The 3 or 4 eBay sellers of this tool post either couldn't give me info
on it or basically said that a slight modification is needed to attach
it to the lathe it will be used on.

The "slight modification" is the reshaping of the steel plate
which becomes the T-slot nut for most normal lathes.

For *your* lathe, as shown by the URLs which you have posted
from the importer, you *need* a modified compound -- on which has been
milled so it is not as tall. Otherwise, you will not be able to get
your tools adjusted low enough to reach the spindle's center line.

You *must* either get this modified compound to use the AXA size
toolpost, or get a stand-alone milling machine to make the modifications
on your own.

The part which gets the "slight modification" for normal lathes
is simply tossed aside, and the center rod screws directly into your
compound.

Until you get that modified compound, you *can't* use your
new toolpost.

Yes. The compound modification will be my first project.
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe...P/JWE_QCTP.htm

For those holders in general, you will want 1/2" tool shanks
(the largest which your holders will accept, just as 5/8" is the largest
that my BXA series will accept.

Yes. And the #4 will take up to a 3/4" boring bar.

O.K.

[ ... ]

The designations for the inserts are still confusing because it seems
like every manufacturer uses their own numbers. The only way to know
which are quality tools, what the numbers mean, and the ease and cost
of insert replacement is to ask those who have experience.

First off -- have you found the charts of insert sizes in your
MSC catalog? (It is good for more than just ordering tools. :-) There
are charts of the numbering scheme from at least two makers of inserts.

MSC:The Big Book
****************
Index Page 557: Carbide Inserts & Indexable Tooling
Page 558: Carbide Insert Cross Reference Chart.
Page 559: ANSI Insert Nomenclature
Page 560: Carbide Grade Cross Reference Chart
Page 561-562 Milling Insert Grade Chart & Turning Speed
Recommendations

I have made what recommendations I am willing to spend the time
on. I type with the keyboard on my lap, and typing with the MSC catalog
in my lap (there is no other place to put it) is just too awkward. I
did web searches for what I posted before.

Yes, I had to type with the keyboard on my lap and had to keep grabbing
and putting the MSC catalog to the side also. :-) Anyway, I just posted
those to show what I was studying. I've learned a lot and now will use
the as a reference for inserts. Btw. There is an eBay
seller(samscarbidetoolclub) in my area that seems to deal in a lot of
tooling inserts.

O.K. For that, I would suggest the Aloris AXA-16 or AXA-16N
toolholder. It handles both boring and turning with one holder (two
inserts -- one at either end. It should be at page 1626 in the MSC Big
Book. As far as I can tell -- none of the other companies yet make ones
like this.

I was actually looking at one on eBay(7603410647). But I didn't bid
because it wasn't the "N" version.

The price was dirt cheap. It would have been worth while to use
with the normal inserts, and save the purchase of the 16N version until
when one comes up.

Cest La Vie.

These threading holders look nice though(7589501316). And I might
consider an Aloris tool holder with the cartridge that locks in 12
different positions. I'm not sure which is the correct number because
presently two eBay sellers are referring to them as #20 and
#30.(7597347922 & 7600122977).

However, looking at the price of
these in the MSC catalog makes me wonder if I really need such a tool
holder for such a relatively weak lathe. Are you really saying that the
16N inserts(that allow 6 usuable corners) are in the long run more cost
effective than other tool holder/insert options?(Especially since the
inserts are probably expensive also).

The inserts are less expensive than the ones for the junk sets,
especially when MSC puts them on sale. Plus, you can sometimes luck
into 100-quantity lots (with perhaps the wrong holder) on eBay. I got
some with 3/4" shank holders, which I had to mill down to 5/8" to fit
the BXA toolpost tool holders which I use.

And the particular advantage of the 16N (or the 16) is that you
need only one holder for most of your work (other than threading), and
that frees two holders for things like threading tooling. I have about
ten normal holders, plus the BXA-16N.

C) Boring

Lots of choices -- and they tend to be weaker than the turning
and facing tooling. And there does not seem to be room for carbide
anvils with those.

Those that you found below (the 7586286270, IIRC) will probably
do. Just make sure that you can get more inserts for them.

I wouldn't know how to go about that. I couldn't find them in the MSC
catalog. And the seller doesn't answer the phone or return
e-mails(unless it's an e-mail invoice).

In which case, you may need to skip them.

D) Threading(Outside)
E) Threading(Inside)

For those, you will need different tooling and different inserts.
Look in the MSC catalog under the names Valenite and Iscar. Find the
shanks first, in the proper 1/2" shank size. Then from there, find the
inserts for the threading which you want to do.

Perhaps I should drop the idea of internal threading on a lathe. I
would love to be able to make some deep thread in small diameter holes

Hmm ... small holes don't go well with single-point threading,
so you don't need the insert tooling for that. I generally use mine for
internal threading of holes 1" and larger.

and will concentrate on the hand taps for this. I did pass up on these:
7603091649-7603091640-7603091620 and I'm wondering if I erred.(I know
you don't like purchasing loose tooling).

I find myself wondering why you even *considered* these. They
are what are know as "pulley taps", designed for threading holes for
setscrews in the hubs of pulleys, where a normal tap can't reach because
of the diameter of the tap wrench.

"Considered" may be a strong word. I saw them but didn't have time to
find out what they were before the auction ended. The seller's list of
auctions are basically non-tool related and I did want to take chances
on his statement of them being NOS anyway because the auction pics were
so bad.

Note that each of these (which are probably pretty good, in that
they still have the protective wax over the cutting parts) have a section
where the shank is the diameter of the full size of the thread before
going to the extended reduced shank. This means that you *cannot* tap a
hole any deeper than you could with a normal tap. You can simply reach
a hole which is otherwise awkward to reach, but you can tap no deeper.

Why do you need deep tapped holes, anyway? Normally, you don't
really need any more than the diameter of the thread worth of thread
length for full strength. Any more simply adds to the wear of the taps.

The reason is because a couple of my projects will involve using
threded rods to positively move components over a 2-1/2" to 3-1/2"
travel.

Look on page 667 for both external and internal holders (not the
miniature ones, I think), and the threading inserts.

The external one(SER 0500 F16) at almost $100 makes me think that I
should probably practice with a cheap eBay holder first. :-)

If you are after small diameter threads, you want taps and
possibly dies in a sliding die holder. And single point threading is
not going to work for deep holes anyway -- even with larger holes.

The external one is probably better for your use than an
internal one. I do have one special internal one small enough to
(barely) manage internal threading of 1/4-20 or perhaps 1/4-28. And I
would do that only on the little CNC lathe, because you can't see enough
with internal threading that small to do it manually -- except perhaps
with a steep learning curve (e.g. many broken inserts.)

For the projects I mentioned, I was thinking that I might have to
thread both ends separately. But the screw rod would always have to be
in contact witht he threaded portions at both ends, regardless of where
it is in the travel.(I'll look up "sliding die holder").

F) Cut-off(Parting)/Grooving

You've got a good holder with the toolpost set. I personally
would go for the T-profile Cleveland Mo-Max parting tools. They are the
"P" type blades. Go to page 550, and select the height to fit your
holder. (I use the BXA, so the size for mine will be different.) Given
the probable power of your spindle motor, I would suggest going for the
narrowest of these blades which you can find to fit.

I guess that would be the 0.040" thick, 1/2" high, 3-1/2" long
blade.(I'd just have to decide between HSS and Cobalt).

Cobalt. It costs more, but it is tougher. It is what I use for
most parting.

Ok. So I guess that means that by the time I go through a single cobalt
blade, I would have gone through more $ in HSS.(All factors taken into
consideration).

Any thoughts on these?(Or they also the "cheap" tools that I'm told to
avoid?).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7586286270

This looks like a potentially useful set. And the wrenches (and
screws) are the special Torx ones, instead of the Allen keys which round
out rather quickly on the cheap sets.

Here's another set from the same seller: 3868312551. But it seems too
limited,(and it doesn't use the hex scres you mentioned).

It uses the Torx screws which I mentioned, The hex ones are the
ones to be avoided. You can usually tell (even if the photo is poor) by
the wrench having a plastic flag molded over it, usually with a straight
extension for spinning the screw down until you get to the point where
you need to actually tighten it, at which point you shift your grip to
the flag.

Realistically, I'd like to be able to srill/bore/ream/thread a 1/4"
diameter hole deep enough to allow a screw rod a 2-1/2" to 3-1/2"
travel, for one of my projects. :-)

Forget single point threading with insert tools for your 1/4"
thread.

Is there any reason why the hold can't be drilled clearance
diameter for part of the way, and threaded only part?

Because the screw rod will be turned via gears and I'll need ridigity
at both ends of the travel.

This is the seller I've gooten most of the lathe realted items from.
But his ads seems to have at least one or more issues:
Not enough info on these: 3850535882

Not for a lathe. Those are milling cutters -- and not even end
mills, given the orientation of the inserts. You won't need them
until you get a stand-alone milling machine.

No hex screws that you mentioned: 3875494246

Those *do* have the screws which you want.

However, they are for use in a boring head in a milling machine.
And one large enough so I suspect that you'll never get the machine to
fit it upstairs. Those have 3/4" diameter shanks. Too big to fit in
the normal tool holders for your quick change toolpost. (Though perhaps
in the boring bar holder.) Yes -- you said that that will accept 3/4"
shanks.

So I guess that set is still a possibilty.

As for the other two, I've decided against them because in the first
set(7586286270) I'd only be able to use two of the bars. The 5/8" and
3/4". The second one(3868312551) has bars that wouldn't work for me
because they are all 1/2" shank.(I didn't notice at first because of
the inconsistent way the seller writes out the bar dimensions).

-snip-

By the way I did wins some Boring head shanks: 7603073759.(Just for the
MT2 one of course). :-)

Hmm ... without knowing what thread your boring head will need?
And a boring head is not useful in the toolpost or in the tailstock. It
needs to be rotating, which means that you will need it to fit the
headstock spindle taper (which I *think* was MT-3, not MT-2).

My error. I meant to say MT3. The MT3 was the reason I bid on them in
the first place. And for the price I got them for I figure it would be
worth it.

That said, *after* I won them someone e-maile dme asking if I would
sell the MT2 shank to him for $10 plus shipping, and I said yes.
*After* that I stumbled into this:
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=1630,
which the site indicates will fit my lathe.

The two of the remaining tools appear to use the tiny 55 degree
insert which the tools for my Compact-5/CNC uses. They are very nice,
and the inserts which I have are very sharp (no TiN coating), but hard
to find. I lucked into a large bag of them from another regular on this
newsgroup several years ago.

Easy to get(and hopefully relatively cheap) inserts are also a priority
for the holders I get.

And here, you are locked into a single vendor, until you can
find the proper designation, and find them in MSC or elsewhere. (Or can
luck into a bag like I did -- but that was a couple of hundred dollars,
IIRC.

Perhaps I can get that lucky, eventually. Thanks for the MSC reference.
It has helped a lot and as a result I can do better eBay searches.

These are too small to offer the carbide anvils, but seem to
hold up a lot better than the cheap sets -- even in the same machine.

I like to think that my lathe's lack of power will ensure that I won't
run into some of your problems. :-)

But the relative lack of rigidity can exacerbate the problems.
It can cause the insert to dig in and lean into the workpiece, thus
stressing the carbide insert to failure.

Actually that was a joke. :-) The idea is that I'm forced not to try
the things you can do on your lathe.

I will proably not answer for a while. I am reaching burnout
answering your questions -- and seeing you buying things without the
proper accessories -- such as the toolpost without the modified
compound.

You'll eventually learn.

I've learned a lot. That was the best option for getting the tool post
without having to pay MSC prices. And the compound mod is well known
with the mini-lathe owners who frequent mini-lathe.com and a couple of
Yahoo Groups.

The modification is documented he
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mlathemods1/ -
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mlathe...les/Toolposts/ -
QCToolPost.PDF

As I've said, you've helped me a lot already. And I just wanted to tie
up the loose ends. I hope I covered everything satisfactorily.

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Isalnd, New York.