Well, I was signed up for the machine shop class at the local college but
only 3 people signed up and I got a message on Friday, today would have
been the first class, telling me that the class had been canceled due to
low enrollement. I called and left a message with the person who called me
wanting to know how many people must be signed up to have the class
actually start. I also asked when the last time the class was actually
taught. Really ****ed that I can't start tonight and had a thought that
perhaps the class has never been taught or at least not in a while.
Wouldn't suprise me if they require 90 or 100 percent of enrollement to
start a class and I'll bet they get some kind of funds if they have said
class on the books from the state or feds even if it isn't taught. Maybe
it's a requirement in a total funding package that it has to be at least
offered even if it is not taught. I'll not hold my breath on getting a
return call.

REALLY ****ED... I was looking forward to getting into a structured
learning environment again, especially in metalworking....


Maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion and I'll find out that the summer
one usually runs but again, I'll not hold my breath.

Wish I could find a retired machinist with a shop locally I could pay to
teach me some stuff.....


Bill

P.S. I also loved the fact that my 'refund' will take 3 or 4 weeks to get
back to me even though I paid with a Credit Card which was charged the day
I enrolled. Wonder if I can charge them the interest.....

In article 2,
Bill wrote:

Wish I could find a retired machinist with a shop locally I could pay to
teach me some stuff.....

Put an ad in the paper, hang one up down at the welding supply or
industrial supply or feed store...depending where you are and what's
around depends where you should ask - the University I used to work at
had a number of semi-retired, highly skilled folks that would come in to
do certain jobs on a part-time basis to keep themselves in beer money
(try the physics, mechanical engineering or plasma sector of electrical
engineering department. Scientists that need weird vacuum vessels need
machinists.)

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

"Bill" wrote in message
7.142...
Well, I was signed up for the machine shop class at the local college but
only 3 people signed up and I got a message on Friday, today would have
been the first class, telling me that the class had been canceled due to
low enrollement. I called and left a message with the person who called
me
wanting to know how many people must be signed up to have the class
actually start. I also asked when the last time the class was actually
taught. Really ****ed that I can't start tonight and had a thought that
perhaps the class has never been taught or at least not in a while.
Wouldn't suprise me if they require 90 or 100 percent of enrollement to
start a class and I'll bet they get some kind of funds if they have said
class on the books from the state or feds even if it isn't taught. Maybe
it's a requirement in a total funding package that it has to be at least
offered even if it is not taught. I'll not hold my breath on getting a
return call.

REALLY ****ED... I was looking forward to getting into a structured
learning environment again, especially in metalworking....

I hate to say this, but when you first described what was going on and said
you were the only one signed up, this is exactly what I thought would
happen. It happens a lot in trade and vo-tech schools.

It's a sad state of affairs but you may have put your finger on it: they may
have to offer the courses just to satisfy some requirement. Or maybe they're
just hoping they'll get lucky.

--
Ed Huntress

On Jan 28, 6:29*am, Bill wrote:
Well, I was signed up for the machine shop class at the local college but
only 3 people signed up and I got a message on Friday, today would have
been the first class, telling me that the class had been canceled due to
low enrollement. *I called and left a message with the person who called me
wanting to know how many people must be signed up to have the class
actually start. *I also asked when the last time the class was actually
taught. *Really ****ed that I can't start tonight and had a thought that
perhaps the class has never been taught or at least not in a while. *
Wouldn't suprise me if they require 90 or 100 percent of enrollement to
start a class and I'll bet they get some kind of funds if they have said
class on the books from the state or feds even if it isn't taught. Maybe
it's a requirement in a total funding package that it has to be at least
offered even if it is not taught. *I'll not hold my breath on getting a
return call.

REALLY ****ED... I was looking forward to getting into a structured
learning environment again, especially in metalworking....

Maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion and I'll find out that the summer
one usually runs but again, I'll not hold my breath.

Wish I could find a retired machinist with a shop locally I could pay to
teach me some stuff.....

Bill

P.S. *I also loved the fact that my 'refund' will take 3 or 4 weeks to get
back to me even though I paid with a Credit Card which was charged the day
I enrolled. *Wonder if I can charge them the interest.....

Perhaps you might suggest to the school's administration they should
offer the class free to undocumented aliens? This way: the class
would fill-up, you get to attend, and this also takes care of more of
those those pesky jobs, so difficult and dirty, that no one else wants
to
do them.

dennis
in nca

"Bill" wrote in message
7.142...
Well, I was signed up for the machine shop class at the local college but
only 3 people signed up and I got a message on Friday, today would have
been the first class, telling me that the class had been canceled due to
low enrollement. I called and left a message with the person who called
me
wanting to know how many people must be signed up to have the class
actually start. I also asked when the last time the class was actually
taught. Really ****ed that I can't start tonight and had a thought that
perhaps the class has never been taught or at least not in a while.
Wouldn't suprise me if they require 90 or 100 percent of enrollement to
start a class and I'll bet they get some kind of funds if they have said
class on the books from the state or feds even if it isn't taught. Maybe
it's a requirement in a total funding package that it has to be at least
offered even if it is not taught. I'll not hold my breath on getting a
return call.

REALLY ****ED... I was looking forward to getting into a structured
learning environment again, especially in metalworking....


Maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion and I'll find out that the summer
one usually runs but again, I'll not hold my breath.

Wish I could find a retired machinist with a shop locally I could pay to
teach me some stuff.....


Bill

P.S. I also loved the fact that my 'refund' will take 3 or 4 weeks to get
back to me even though I paid with a Credit Card which was charged the day
I enrolled. Wonder if I can charge them the interest.....

Sorry to hear that your class was cancelled.

Back when I was in California, and classes were only $10± per semester, it
was customary to sign up wives and friends in order to meet minimum
enrollment standards. Of course said 'extras' only showed up on the first
day and never again.

Additionally, some years back when I took upholstery classes, the teacher
placed ads in the "Nickel Ads" etc., such as "Upholster your car seats" etc.
The ads were placed for his job preservation purposes and they worked.

As one of the posters said above, maybe you can drum up interest in the
metal-fab or welding community.

Ivan Vegvary

"Bill" wrote in message
7.142...
Well, I was signed up for the machine shop class at the local college but
only 3 people signed up and I got a message on Friday, today would have
been the first class, telling me that the class had been canceled due to
low enrollement. I called and left a message with the person who called me
wanting to know how many people must be signed up to have the class
actually start. I also asked when the last time the class was actually
taught. Really ****ed that I can't start tonight and had a thought that
perhaps the class has never been taught or at least not in a while.
Wouldn't suprise me if they require 90 or 100 percent of enrollement to
start a class and I'll bet they get some kind of funds if they have said
class on the books from the state or feds even if it isn't taught. Maybe
it's a requirement in a total funding package that it has to be at least
offered even if it is not taught. I'll not hold my breath on getting a
return call.

REALLY ****ED... I was looking forward to getting into a structured
learning environment again, especially in metalworking....


Maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion and I'll find out that the summer
one usually runs but again, I'll not hold my breath.

Wish I could find a retired machinist with a shop locally I could pay to
teach me some stuff.....


Bill

P.S. I also loved the fact that my 'refund' will take 3 or 4 weeks to get
back to me even though I paid with a Credit Card which was charged the day
I enrolled. Wonder if I can charge them the interest.....

This class starts as soon as you get here. I have a spare bedroom and your room
and board are included in your tuition. By the time you turn, mill, drill, tap,
thread, grind, weld and assemble all the parts in my class, you will be an
expert. Visa/MasterCard accepted!

"Bill" wrote in message
7.142...
Well, I was signed up for the machine shop class at the local college but
only 3 people signed up and I got a message on Friday, today would have
been the first class, telling me that the class had been canceled due to
low enrollement.

This is not new or unusual.
30 some odd years ago, when I was in college, The university had a technical
careers campus in some Quonset huts about 15 miles out of town.

They had a machine shop course for non tech majors listed every semester.
For the first three semesters I was there, it was canceled because only two
of us applied.

We wised up on the fourth semester. We got about twenty guys from the art
department to apply and arranged transportation for them.


Paul K. Dickman

"Tom Gardner" wrote in
:

snip

This class starts as soon as you get here. I have a spare bedroom and
your room and board are included in your tuition. By the time you
turn, mill, drill, tap, thread, grind, weld and assemble all the parts
in my class, you will be an expert. Visa/MasterCard accepted!



Are you sure your last name isn't Sawyer???

Can I whitewash your fence too

Tell you what, if I could 'volunteer' at a shop somewhere close for a few
nights a week it would be worth paying for the privilege. Especially a one
off or small run shop.

Bill

Bill wrote:

Not a bad idea. I want to wait and see if they will tell me what the
lowest limit is and see if I can weedle out the names and contact info of
the other two people who signed up so I can call them and let them know
about it.

They probably CAN'T do that, but if you find somebody cooperative, they
can possibly give your name/info to the other students. They may have
to do it through the course instructor, who undoubtedly has an interest
in actually teaching the course so he gets PAID. I think it is pretty
kosher for an instructor to solicit enough people to actually teach the
course.

Jon

On Jan 28, 2:29 pm, Bill wrote:
Well, I was signed up for the machine shop class at the local college but
only 3 people signed up and I got a message on Friday, today would have
been the first class, telling me that the class had been canceled due to
low enrollement.
Bill


It sounds as if you need to take over the job of getting people to
sign up. My suggestions would be Craigslist as well as posting
notices at all the supply places you can think of. You might also
talk to places with a machine shop and see if any of them want to
encourage any of their workers to take a machine shop course. You
could point out that there might be benefits to having people that
actually do machining take the course as well as engineers and
supervisors.

Dan

" wrote in
:

snip
It sounds as if you need to take over the job of getting people to
sign up. My suggestions would be Craigslist as well as posting
notices at all the supply places you can think of. You might also
talk to places with a machine shop and see if any of them want to
encourage any of their workers to take a machine shop course. You
could point out that there might be benefits to having people that
actually do machining take the course as well as engineers and
supervisors.

Dan


Not a bad idea. I want to wait and see if they will tell me what the
lowest limit is and see if I can weedle out the names and contact info of
the other two people who signed up so I can call them and let them know
about it.

I'm hoping that this will all be moot and I'll be told that the other
course dates usually get enough people.


Bill

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 08:29:44 -0600, Bill wrote:
(SNIP) the class had been canceled due to
low enrollement. I called and left a message with the person who called me
wanting to know how many people must be signed up to have the class
actually start. I also asked when the last time the class was actually
taught.

Good questions. I bet you don't get answers.

Really ****ed that I can't start tonight and had a thought that
perhaps the class has never been taught or at least not in a while.
Wouldn't suprise me if they require 90 or 100 percent of enrollement to
start a class and I'll bet they get some kind of funds if they have said
class on the books from the state or feds even if it isn't taught.

They are funded on FTE's. (Full Time Equivalents). If they're anything
like the "tech" schools around here, they'd rather have a room full of
english students reading (cheap) books, than have a big shop full of
expensive, scary equipment. Tech schools aren't about serving the needs
of industry any more, they're about maximizing funding by packing as
many students in as cheap of a room as they can.

Wish I could find a retired machinist with a shop locally I could pay to
teach me some stuff.....

Can you find a local job-shop where you can work part-time as a trainee?

P.S. I also loved the fact that my 'refund' will take 3 or 4 weeks to get
back to me even though I paid with a Credit Card which was charged the day
I enrolled. Wonder if I can charge them the interest.....

Curious, what state are you in?

Bill writes:

Well, I was signed up for the machine shop class at the local college but
only 3 people signed up and I got a message on Friday, today would have
been the first class, telling me that the class had been canceled due to
low enrollement. I called and left a message with the person who called me
wanting to know how many people must be signed up to have the class
actually start. I also asked when the last time the class was actually
taught. Really ****ed that I can't start tonight and had a thought that
perhaps the class has never been taught or at least not in a while.
Wouldn't suprise me if they require 90 or 100 percent of enrollement to
start a class and I'll bet they get some kind of funds if they have said
class on the books from the state or feds even if it isn't taught. Maybe
it's a requirement in a total funding package that it has to be at least
offered even if it is not taught. I'll not hold my breath on getting a
return call.

I can't speak to the school you were enrolled at, but I can try to
give some information about New Mexico State University (where I'm a
professor in the Computer Science department).

We don't get any money for having a class on the books. Only for
actually having the class take place, and we get money on the basis of
how many students actually take the class. But it takes money to put
on the class (money to pay for the instructor, money for lab
facilities...). According to some mystic formula that I'm not privy
to -- and near as I can tell, nobody else is, either -- it takes ten
students for an undergrad class to pay for itself. If there are less
than ten, you have to make a *really* good case in order for the class
to happen. It doesn't really matter whether the class had a cap of 15
students or it was scheduled for a lecture hall that would fit 200 --
10 is the magic number.

So: my wife is a part-time instructor at the Dona Ana Community
College (a community college campus of NMSU's). She was scheduled to
teach two courses this semester: one, an introductory CS course
that's been offered many, many times in the past; the other, a
brand-new course in systems analysis for which there are high hopes.
Neither one got ten students. The introductory class was cancelled
(and Heather isn't getting paid for it); the other will be offered
this semester anyway, but if there aren't some students in the Fall,
will be in real danger.

Hope that helps a bit....

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:45:45 -0600, Bill wrote:

"Tom Gardner" wrote in
t:

snip

This class starts as soon as you get here. I have a spare bedroom and
your room and board are included in your tuition. By the time you
turn, mill, drill, tap, thread, grind, weld and assemble all the parts
in my class, you will be an expert. Visa/MasterCard accepted!



Are you sure your last name isn't Sawyer???

Can I whitewash your fence too

Tell you what, if I could 'volunteer' at a shop somewhere close for a few
nights a week it would be worth paying for the privilege. Especially a one
off or small run shop.

Bill

why the disparaging reply to tom?
his is an interesting work environment.
give him a serious answer.

Stealth Pilot

On Jan 29, 1:29 am, Bill wrote:
Well, I was signed up for the machine shop class at the local college but
only 3 people signed up and I got a message on Friday, today would have
been the first class, telling me that the class had been canceled due to
low enrollement.

Yes, well, Bill - welcome to the wonderful world of "Fee For Service"
- you had been warned, alas - its disappointing, I know from my own
experience...

By a curious coincidence, today was my first day back at trade school
for the year - the theory and operation of indexing heads, index
plates (Cincinnatti and B&S) and rotary tables, the care,
feeding,setting up and operation of.... Next week, I get to crash
one(not) for real...probably on one of the older Bridgeport mill..

Try and find an apprentice level trades course - You MUST still have
them, somewhere (if not, then your manufacturing future aint looking
good..) and you enrol in it. It will be cheaper, and you will learn
more.

Regards,

Andrew VK3BFA

Stealth Pilot wrote in
:

snip
why the disparaging reply to tom?
his is an interesting work environment.
give him a serious answer.

Stealth Pilot


Why do you think it was disparaging???

If he was seriously offering me this you'd think he'd let me know where he
is located. Even if he was dead serious, living at his place wouldn't be an
option for me, wife, kids and job to pay for them you know. This why I was
looking at an evening class a few times a week.

Bill

Joe Pfeiffer wrote in
:

snip
We don't get any money for having a class on the books. Only for
actually having the class take place, and we get money on the basis of
how many students actually take the class. But it takes money to put
on the class (money to pay for the instructor, money for lab
facilities...). According to some mystic formula that I'm not privy
to -- and near as I can tell, nobody else is, either -- it takes ten
students for an undergrad class to pay for itself. If there are less
than ten, you have to make a *really* good case in order for the class
to happen. It doesn't really matter whether the class had a cap of 15
students or it was scheduled for a lecture hall that would fit 200 --
10 is the magic number.
snip

You're right, I received a message from admissions office and they told
me that the class had to be completely filled, 10 students, before it
would be allowed to take place. They also told me that it had taken
place last winter but she couldn't remember when it had been held before
that.

One last bit, and maybe it's just me be sexist but, it was implied that
the teacher is female. How many people have run into female machinists
in real life???(Real question!!) I had been hoping for someone with real
world experience in the field not someone who just learned it in school.
I'm going to have to find out more of her background before I decide to
sign up again. Yes this is profiling and if it was a man I wouldn't
worry as much but if I'd found out he was young and never was in the
trade I hesitate too. Again, I don't have any experience in the field or
been around anyone who might know but I'd suspect that female machinists
are rare.


Bill

"Bill" wrote in message
. 97.142...
Joe Pfeiffer wrote in
:

snip
We don't get any money for having a class on the books. Only for
actually having the class take place, and we get money on the basis of
how many students actually take the class. But it takes money to put
on the class (money to pay for the instructor, money for lab
facilities...). According to some mystic formula that I'm not privy
to -- and near as I can tell, nobody else is, either -- it takes ten
students for an undergrad class to pay for itself. If there are less
than ten, you have to make a *really* good case in order for the class
to happen. It doesn't really matter whether the class had a cap of 15
students or it was scheduled for a lecture hall that would fit 200 --
10 is the magic number.
snip

You're right, I received a message from admissions office and they told
me that the class had to be completely filled, 10 students, before it
would be allowed to take place. They also told me that it had taken
place last winter but she couldn't remember when it had been held before
that.

One last bit, and maybe it's just me be sexist but, it was implied that
the teacher is female. How many people have run into female machinists
in real life???(Real question!!) I had been hoping for someone with real
world experience in the field not someone who just learned it in school.
I'm going to have to find out more of her background before I decide to
sign up again. Yes this is profiling and if it was a man I wouldn't
worry as much but if I'd found out he was young and never was in the
trade I hesitate too. Again, I don't have any experience in the field or
been around anyone who might know but I'd suspect that female machinists
are rare.

Having visited hundreds of shops and plants over the course of a career, I
can confirm that they're pretty rare. Of course there are a lot of female
machine operators in production plants today, but very few machinists or
toolmakers. Interestingly, the few that I've run into tend to be very good.

If your instructor has no shop experience she may still be good at teaching
how things should be done. The textbooks aren't written by academics; or if
they do the actual writing, they're always reviewed and revised by real shop
people. But learning that way will never teach you the tricks and the
subtleties.

You may not want to learn the "tricks" of many machinists today, however. A
lot of them are a load of crap. Too many "machinists" are mostly self-taught
and never had the knowledge of materials or processes to make good judgments
about how to do things.

Still, given a choice, I'd rather be taught by a real shop person.

--
Ed Huntress

"Bill" wrote in message
. 97.142...
Stealth Pilot wrote in
:

snip
why the disparaging reply to tom?
his is an interesting work environment.
give him a serious answer.

Stealth Pilot


Why do you think it was disparaging???

If he was seriously offering me this you'd think he'd let me know where he
is located. Even if he was dead serious, living at his place wouldn't be an
option for me, wife, kids and job to pay for them you know. This why I was
looking at an evening class a few times a week.

Bill

Everybody knows where I am, if not it's easy to figure out from my e-mail
address that is links to my website, ohiobrush.com in Cleveland. I didn't
really expect you to show up on my doorstep but I'd make you welcome and work
the **** out of you. You would have to pet the dogs as they are starved for
attention.(yea, right) We build and maintain production equipment and can do
almost anything in the shop.

I hope you find a good class that's convenient, but I was cleaning out a guest
room and lining-up projects for you! : )

"Tom Gardner" wrote in
t:

snip

I hope you find a good class that's convenient, but I was cleaning out
a guest room and lining-up projects for you! : )




If I was single I'd be there in a heart beat. But Ohio would put a bit of
a strain on my marriage.

Thanks of the offer anyway.

Bill

Tom:

Hmm, you're only 3 or 4 miles from me...you may find a local on your
doorstep!

David
Cleveland Heights

Tom Gardner wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
. 97.142...
Stealth Pilot wrote in
:

snip
why the disparaging reply to tom?
his is an interesting work environment.
give him a serious answer.

Stealth Pilot

Why do you think it was disparaging???

If he was seriously offering me this you'd think he'd let me know where he
is located. Even if he was dead serious, living at his place wouldn't be an
option for me, wife, kids and job to pay for them you know. This why I was
looking at an evening class a few times a week.

Bill

Everybody knows where I am, if not it's easy to figure out from my e-mail
address that is links to my website, ohiobrush.com in Cleveland. I didn't
really expect you to show up on my doorstep but I'd make you welcome and work
the **** out of you. You would have to pet the dogs as they are starved for
attention.(yea, right) We build and maintain production equipment and can do
almost anything in the shop.

I hope you find a good class that's convenient, but I was cleaning out a guest
room and lining-up projects for you! : )

"David Kazdan" wrote in message
...
Tom:

Hmm, you're only 3 or 4 miles from me...you may find a local on your doorstep!

David
Cleveland Heights

We should have lunch at the Academy Tavern or the Larchmere Tavern! You'd be
welcome in the shop anytime, call.