What a idiot!

***** If brains were cotton. You would not have enough cotton in
your head to make a kotex for a gnats ass! *****

Union definition:
A combination so formed, especially an alliance or confederation of
people, parties, or political entities for mutual interest or benefit.


Excellence Is A Process Not A Goal To Do Better ..." Do It The WRIGHT
WAY"


"SKILLED ON PRINCIPLE ----- UNION BY CHOICE"

Do you know why they hate Unions in the South? They hated to call a
Black Man Brother... Think about it?

Ron Oliver
Millwright Superintendent
Union Millwright and Damn Proud Of It...... 35 years

Army Security Agency 1967 to 1971
Two tours of duty in Vietnam
MOS 33G40
DD214
Member of D.A.V.

On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:28:52 -0700, Millwright Ron wrote:

What a idiot!

***** If brains were cotton. You would not have enough cotton in
your head to make a kotex for a gnats ass! *****

Union definition:
A combination so formed, especially an alliance or confederation of
people, parties, or political entities for mutual interest or benefit.


Excellence Is A Process Not A Goal To Do Better ..." Do It The WRIGHT
WAY"


"SKILLED ON PRINCIPLE ----- UNION BY CHOICE"

Do you know why they hate Unions in the South? They hated to call a
Black Man Brother... Think about it?

Ron Oliver
Millwright Superintendent
Union Millwright and Damn Proud Of It...... 35 years

Army Security Agency 1967 to 1971
Two tours of duty in Vietnam
MOS 33G40
DD214
Member of D.A.V.

Every really hard worker I know who was also once in a union was
threatened with violence by their (union) coworkers for working too hard.

I suppose that's something for a union guy to be proud of, in a twisted
sort of way.

Me? Well, I like to work hard and get rewarded for it.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:28:52 -0700, Millwright Ron wrote:

What a idiot!

***** If brains were cotton. You would not have enough cotton in
your head to make a kotex for a gnats ass! *****

Union definition:
A combination so formed, especially an alliance or confederation of
people, parties, or political entities for mutual interest or benefit.


Excellence Is A Process Not A Goal To Do Better ..." Do It The WRIGHT
WAY"


"SKILLED ON PRINCIPLE ----- UNION BY CHOICE"

Do you know why they hate Unions in the South? They hated to call a
Black Man Brother... Think about it?

Ron Oliver
Millwright Superintendent
Union Millwright and Damn Proud Of It...... 35 years

Army Security Agency 1967 to 1971
Two tours of duty in Vietnam
MOS 33G40
DD214
Member of D.A.V.

Every really hard worker I know who was also once in a union was
threatened with violence by their (union) coworkers for working too hard.

I suppose that's something for a union guy to be proud of, in a twisted
sort of way.

Me? Well, I like to work hard and get rewarded for it.

You are not alone, and you can be proud for making your statement.

I've told this story before.

I worked in a shop in Utah that was unionized. Utah, being a right to work
state, didn't mandate that I join them, and I didn't. I wanted no part of
them. At every turn, the union workers admonished me to "slow
down"-----not to turn out much work for fear that you might have a bad day
in which you couldn't turn out the number of widgets that the company had
become accustomed to receiving daily-------which, to me, was appalling.
Said another way, put out a poor day's work every day, that way the company
won't have any expectations from you. What kind of moron slows down a
company such that it is in jeopardy of losing money?

I was with this company only five months. The union killed the job, so the
corporation sold the entire operation to Japan. This, by the way, was back
in the mid 60's, which it now appears to have been the beginning of US
employees demanding more money for less output, a negative aspect of unions,
which has been very instrumental in the loss of millions of jobs, all
shipped across the pond because we, in our apparently insatiable stupidity,
can't seem to grasp the concept of no free lunch, or unearned pay.

While I'm now retired, I don't recall ever having the need to have a corrupt
organization represent me. The work I turned out spoke volumes about me,
and my ability. Qualified people don't need a union, their performance
speaks for them.

Harold

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:28:52 -0700, Millwright Ron wrote:

What a idiot!

***** If brains were cotton. You would not have enough cotton in
your head to make a kotex for a gnats ass! *****

Union definition:
A combination so formed, especially an alliance or confederation of
people, parties, or political entities for mutual interest or
benefit. Excellence Is A Process Not A Goal To Do Better ..." Do It The
WRIGHT WAY"


"SKILLED ON PRINCIPLE ----- UNION BY CHOICE"

Do you know why they hate Unions in the South? They hated to call a
Black Man Brother... Think about it?

Ron Oliver
Millwright Superintendent
Union Millwright and Damn Proud Of It...... 35 years

Army Security Agency 1967 to 1971
Two tours of duty in Vietnam
MOS 33G40
DD214
Member of D.A.V.

Every really hard worker I know who was also once in a union was
threatened with violence by their (union) coworkers for working too
hard. I suppose that's something for a union guy to be proud of, in a
twisted sort of way.

Me? Well, I like to work hard and get rewarded for it.

You are not alone, and you can be proud for making your statement.

I've told this story before.

I worked in a shop in Utah that was unionized. Utah, being a right
to work state, didn't mandate that I join them, and I didn't. I
wanted no part of them. At every turn, the union workers
admonished me to "slow down"-----not to turn out much work for fear
that you might have a bad day in which you couldn't turn out the
number of widgets that the company had become accustomed to receiving
daily-------which, to me, was appalling. Said another way, put out a
poor day's work every day, that way the company won't have any
expectations from you. What kind of moron slows down a company such
that it is in jeopardy of losing money?
I was with this company only five months. The union killed the job,
so the corporation sold the entire operation to Japan. This, by the
way, was back in the mid 60's, which it now appears to have been the
beginning of US employees demanding more money for less output, a
negative aspect of unions, which has been very instrumental in the
loss of millions of jobs, all shipped across the pond because we, in
our apparently insatiable stupidity, can't seem to grasp the concept
of no free lunch, or unearned pay.
While I'm now retired, I don't recall ever having the need to have a
corrupt organization represent me. The work I turned out spoke
volumes about me, and my ability. Qualified people don't need a
union, their performance speaks for them.

Harold

I believe there once was a time when unions were of benefit to the
American workforce . I also believe that day is long gone , for just the
reasons you have detailed .
I believe that the union's now are more closely akin to organized crime ,
and their actions no more or less than extortion .
--

Snag aka OSG #1
'90 Ultra , "Strider"
The road goes on forever ...
none to one to reply

Snag wrote in article
...


I believe that the union's now are more closely akin to organized crime
,
and their actions no more or less than extortion .
--



I just can't wait to see how things go when the UAW takes over the handling
of auto worker pension funds.......per the GM agreement.

Ought to make the whole Enron deal look like shoplifting penny candy.


From my POV, it appears that GM has found a way to finally rid itself of
the unions.......let them screw their members so badly that the membership
rejects unions.

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:

What kind of moron slows down a
company such that it is in jeopardy of losing money?

Way too many sadly. I want the company I work for to make great gobs of
money, so damn much they don't have any excuses not to share.

Wes

On Oct 23, 5:37 am, Wes wrote:
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:

What kind of moron slows down a
company such that it is in jeopardy of losing money?

Way too many sadly. I want the company I work for to make great gobs of
money, so damn much they don't have any excuses not to share.

Wes

In case you haven't noticed the hard work you're
doing is more likely to wind up as part of a multi-
million dollar bonus to the executive who figured
out how to screw you.

Are people so stupid that they can't see what's
going on around them? There's no reason to
think up elaborate reasons why jobs are going
overseas. Do you imagine some fictitious union
forced the jobs for computer (and etc.) support
to India??? You would have to be delusional to
believe this yet the same tired old canard is
pulled out every time the subject comes up: "It's
the unions that are forcing jobs overseas."

The unions may have caused plenty problems, but
today's business person needs no union to help
continue screwing people over ( ahh, maximizing
their stockholders "return-on-investment), except
as a scapegoat.

dennis
in nca

rigger wrote:

Way too many sadly. I want the company I work for to make great gobs of
money, so damn much they don't have any excuses not to share.

Wes

In case you haven't noticed the hard work you're
doing is more likely to wind up as part of a multi-
million dollar bonus to the executive who figured
out how to screw you.


Actually it is being noticed. Not only am I an employee I'm one of the many
stock holders in both direct stock and in indexed funds.

Investment houses and stockholders have noticed how much of the bottom line
is going to the top line executives.

Wes

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 02:05:14 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:28:52 -0700, Millwright Ron wrote:

What a idiot!

***** If brains were cotton. You would not have enough cotton in
your head to make a kotex for a gnats ass! *****

Union definition:
A combination so formed, especially an alliance or confederation of
people, parties, or political entities for mutual interest or benefit.


Excellence Is A Process Not A Goal To Do Better ..." Do It The WRIGHT
WAY"


"SKILLED ON PRINCIPLE ----- UNION BY CHOICE"

Do you know why they hate Unions in the South? They hated to call a
Black Man Brother... Think about it?

Ron Oliver
Millwright Superintendent
Union Millwright and Damn Proud Of It...... 35 years

Army Security Agency 1967 to 1971
Two tours of duty in Vietnam
MOS 33G40
DD214
Member of D.A.V.

Every really hard worker I know who was also once in a union was
threatened with violence by their (union) coworkers for working too hard.

I suppose that's something for a union guy to be proud of, in a twisted
sort of way.

Me? Well, I like to work hard and get rewarded for it.


And not have to pay some fat rat ******* union knee breaker for the
prevlidge of union seniority when Im low man on the totom pole but
**** loads better then the weinie on top.

Gunner

On Oct 23, 5:21 am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 02:05:14 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:



On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:28:52 -0700, Millwright Ron wrote:

What a idiot!

***** If brains were cotton. You would not have enough cotton in
your head to make a kotex for a gnats ass! *****

Union definition:
A combination so formed, especially an alliance or confederation of
people, parties, or political entities for mutual interest or benefit.

Excellence Is A Process Not A Goal To Do Better ..." Do It The WRIGHT
WAY"

"SKILLED ON PRINCIPLE ----- UNION BY CHOICE"

Do you know why they hate Unions in the South? They hated to call a
Black Man Brother... Think about it?

Ron Oliver
Millwright Superintendent
Union Millwright and Damn Proud Of It...... 35 years

Army Security Agency 1967 to 1971
Two tours of duty in Vietnam
MOS 33G40
DD214
Member of D.A.V.

Every really hard worker I know who was also once in a union was
threatened with violence by their (union) coworkers for working too hard.

I suppose that's something for a union guy to be proud of, in a twisted
sort of way.

Me? Well, I like to work hard and get rewarded for it.

And not have to pay some fat rat ******* union knee breaker for the
prevlidge of union seniority when Im low man on the totom pole but
**** loads better then the weinie on top.

Gunner

Funny guys in my primary (non metal) job I'm required to be in the
union for them

I just finished off writing a letter because some dogger during the
day has been busy for two weeks making arragements to test omething i
did two weeks ago. I reamed the guy out for being illiterate then for
being a parrot then fro being "Clairvoyant" then for plain old being a
stupid dog FSCKER. with quotes to back up every accusation.

the Douche in question the company has been trying to fire for 15
years i have "ONLY" 6 years seniority guess who the union has been
crutching along for 20 years

I think Unions are obsolete because most of waht they were needed for
has since become government mandated; at least in my country

Brent
Ottawa Canada

Tim Wescott wrote:


Every really hard worker I know who was also once in a union was
threatened with violence by their (union) coworkers for working too hard.

I suppose that's something for a union guy to be proud of, in a twisted
sort of way.

Me? Well, I like to work hard and get rewarded for it.


Yeah, you should read "MIG Pilot" by Victor Belenko. Same thing
happened to him in Russia, and he found it extremely discouraging.
It was the beginning of him deciding he had to get out. This kind of
thinking, not by a small group, but by EVERYBODY in the entire country,
is what caused the collapse of the USSR. Oh well, no surprise, that U
in "USSR" stands for union!

Jon

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:28:52 -0700, Millwright Ron wrote:

What a idiot!

***** If brains were cotton. You would not have enough cotton in
your head to make a kotex for a gnats ass! *****

Union definition:
A combination so formed, especially an alliance or confederation of
people, parties, or political entities for mutual interest or benefit.


Excellence Is A Process Not A Goal To Do Better ..." Do It The WRIGHT
WAY"


"SKILLED ON PRINCIPLE ----- UNION BY CHOICE"

Do you know why they hate Unions in the South? They hated to call a
Black Man Brother... Think about it?

Ron Oliver
Millwright Superintendent
Union Millwright and Damn Proud Of It...... 35 years

Army Security Agency 1967 to 1971
Two tours of duty in Vietnam
MOS 33G40
DD214
Member of D.A.V.

Every really hard worker I know who was also once in a union was
threatened with violence by their (union) coworkers for working too hard.

I suppose that's something for a union guy to be proud of, in a twisted
sort of way.

Me? Well, I like to work hard and get rewarded for it.

--
Tim Wescott

That's not always the case. The carpenter's union on Long Island, for
example, worked guys pretty hard. If the contractor didn't like the
production, the carpenter didn't get called back. In addition they would
quite often get screwed by getting laid off before they had enough time in
that year for benefits- of course that meant someone in the union was
getting all the sweet jobs and the cream. But it wasn't such a sweet deal
for every rank and file guy.

Looks like there are a lot of disgrunteled Rooters, Rats, and Scabs
with too much time on their hands.

"Robb" wrote in message
ups.com...

Looks like there are a lot of disgrunteled Rooters, Rats, and Scabs
with too much time on their hands.


Rooter? I haven't heard that one before.

On Oct 23, 9:35 pm, "ATP*" wrote:
"Tim Wescott" wrote in message

...



On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:28:52 -0700, Millwright Ron wrote:

What a idiot!

***** If brains were cotton. You would not have enough cotton in
your head to make a kotex for a gnats ass! *****

Union definition:
A combination so formed, especially an alliance or confederation of
people, parties, or political entities for mutual interest or benefit.

Excellence Is A Process Not A Goal To Do Better ..." Do It The WRIGHT
WAY"

"SKILLED ON PRINCIPLE ----- UNION BY CHOICE"

Do you know why they hate Unions in the South? They hated to call a
Black Man Brother... Think about it?

Ron Oliver
Millwright Superintendent
Union Millwright and Damn Proud Of It...... 35 years

Army Security Agency 1967 to 1971
Two tours of duty in Vietnam
MOS 33G40
DD214
Member of D.A.V.

Every really hard worker I know who was also once in a union was
threatened with violence by their (union) coworkers for working too hard.

I suppose that's something for a union guy to be proud of, in a twisted
sort of way.

Me? Well, I like to work hard and get rewarded for it.

--
Tim Wescott

That's not always the case. The carpenter's union on Long Island, for
example, worked guys pretty hard. If the contractor didn't like the
production, the carpenter didn't get called back. In addition they would
quite often get screwed by getting laid off before they had enough time in
that year for benefits- of course that meant someone in the union was
getting all the sweet jobs and the cream. But it wasn't such a sweet deal
for every rank and file guy.

I could never be in a position where I worked for the union and the
sent
me to a job. That is the lowest form of deprivation possible and takes
all iniative away from the workers.

"sparky" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 23, 9:35 pm, "ATP*" wrote:
"Tim Wescott" wrote in message

...



On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:28:52 -0700, Millwright Ron wrote:

What a idiot!

***** If brains were cotton. You would not have enough cotton in
your head to make a kotex for a gnats ass! *****

Union definition:
A combination so formed, especially an alliance or confederation of
people, parties, or political entities for mutual interest or benefit.

Excellence Is A Process Not A Goal To Do Better ..." Do It The WRIGHT
WAY"

"SKILLED ON PRINCIPLE ----- UNION BY CHOICE"

Do you know why they hate Unions in the South? They hated to call a
Black Man Brother... Think about it?

Ron Oliver
Millwright Superintendent
Union Millwright and Damn Proud Of It...... 35 years

Army Security Agency 1967 to 1971
Two tours of duty in Vietnam
MOS 33G40
DD214
Member of D.A.V.

Every really hard worker I know who was also once in a union was
threatened with violence by their (union) coworkers for working too
hard.

I suppose that's something for a union guy to be proud of, in a twisted
sort of way.

Me? Well, I like to work hard and get rewarded for it.

--
Tim Wescott

That's not always the case. The carpenter's union on Long Island, for
example, worked guys pretty hard. If the contractor didn't like the
production, the carpenter didn't get called back. In addition they would
quite often get screwed by getting laid off before they had enough time
in
that year for benefits- of course that meant someone in the union was
getting all the sweet jobs and the cream. But it wasn't such a sweet deal
for every rank and file guy.

I could never be in a position where I worked for the union and the
sent
me to a job. That is the lowest form of deprivation possible and takes
all iniative away from the workers.

That's not the way it works for most, just some guys at the "hall". Most
carpenters have a card and work for the same contractor on a regular basis.
Some work in a manner very close to being an independent subcontractor. Men
that specialize in suspended ceilings and can install a lot in a day work on
a square footage basis, but have union cards.

On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:28:52 -0700, Millwright Ron wrote:
What a idiot!

***** If brains were cotton. You would not have enough cotton in
your head to make a kotex for a gnats ass! *****

Union definition:
A combination so formed, especially an alliance or confederation of
people, parties, or political entities for mutual interest or benefit.

Excellence Is A Process Not A Goal To Do Better ..." Do It The WRIGHT
WAY"

"SKILLED ON PRINCIPLE ----- UNION BY CHOICE"

Do you know why they hate Unions in the South? They hated to call a
Black Man Brother... Think about it?

Ron Oliver
Millwright Superintendent
Union Millwright and Damn Proud Of It...... 35 years

Army Security Agency 1967 to 1971
Two tours of duty in Vietnam
MOS 33G40
DD214
Member of D.A.V.

Every really hard worker I know who was also once in a union was
threatened with violence by their (union) coworkers for working too hard.

I suppose that's something for a union guy to be proud of, in a twisted
sort of way.

Me? Well, I like to work hard and get rewarded for it.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consultinghttp://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes,http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You either do not know very many really hard workers or you are a
liar. Some people will lie about anything. Especially if the can lie
and make a bonus or get some else's job.
Over the last 35 years as a supervisor of Union Millwrights I
have had some really bad ones and I fired them. The biggest majority
were hard working individuals who were proud of their Trade and It
showed. They made money for the company that they worked for, they did
it safe and they did it in a timely manner.

Non-producers,liars and trouble makers did not last long on my jobs.

Millwright Ron

Millwright Ron wrote:
On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:28:52 -0700, Millwright Ron wrote:
What a idiot!
***** If brains were cotton. You would not have enough cotton in
your head to make a kotex for a gnats ass! *****
Union definition:
A combination so formed, especially an alliance or confederation of
people, parties, or political entities for mutual interest or benefit.
Excellence Is A Process Not A Goal To Do Better ..." Do It The WRIGHT
WAY"


MR,
As a physician, I can tell you that the American Medical Association is
NOT a union and doctors DO NOT have to join. Given the definition
above, and granting that this is your understanding of a union, I can
assure you that it is one of the most inept and impractical of
associations. As a practical matter, our hours have increased, our
wages have dramatically decreased, no one protects poorly-trained
doctors. There is no collective bargaining, no union benefits, no
strike protections. The AMA is not what you think it is!

Rich

On Nov 8, 6:22 am, rich brenz wrote:
Millwright Ron wrote:
On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:28:52 -0700, Millwright Ron wrote:
What a idiot!
***** If brains were cotton. You would not have enough cotton in
your head to make a kotex for a gnats ass! *****
Union definition:
A combination so formed, especially an alliance or confederation of
people, parties, or political entities for mutual interest or benefit.
Excellence Is A Process Not A Goal To Do Better ..." Do It The WRIGHT
WAY"

MR,
As a physician, I can tell you that the American Medical Association is
NOT a union and doctors DO NOT have to join. Given the definition
above, and granting that this is your understanding of a union, I can
assure you that it is one of the most inept and impractical of
associations. As a practical matter, our hours have increased, our
wages have dramatically decreased, no one protects poorly-trained
doctors. There is no collective bargaining, no union benefits, no
strike protections. The AMA is not what you think it is!

Rich

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX


Union definition:
"A combination so formed, especially an alliance or confederation of
people, parties, or political entities for mutual interest or benefit"

I did not say they you are required to join a union or an association
or to pay dues to a union or association. But if you do join.....You
meet the requirements above.. Also it does not have to be a good union
or association and it can be as you say"it is one of the most inept
and impractical of associations". It is an association. Therefore Its
meets the minimum requirements.

On 8 Nov 2007 12:15:22 -0800, Millwright Ron
wrote:

On Nov 8, 6:22 am, rich brenz wrote:
Millwright Ron wrote:
On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:28:52 -0700, Millwright Ron wrote:
What a idiot!
***** If brains were cotton. You would not have enough cotton in
your head to make a kotex for a gnats ass! *****
Union definition:
A combination so formed, especially an alliance or confederation of
people, parties, or political entities for mutual interest or benefit.
Excellence Is A Process Not A Goal To Do Better ..." Do It The WRIGHT
WAY"

MR,
As a physician, I can tell you that the American Medical Association is
NOT a union and doctors DO NOT have to join. Given the definition
above, and granting that this is your understanding of a union, I can
assure you that it is one of the most inept and impractical of
associations. As a practical matter, our hours have increased, our
wages have dramatically decreased, no one protects poorly-trained
doctors. There is no collective bargaining, no union benefits, no
strike protections. The AMA is not what you think it is!

Rich

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX


Union definition:
"A combination so formed, especially an alliance or confederation of
people, parties, or political entities for mutual interest or benefit"

I did not say they you are required to join a union or an association
or to pay dues to a union or association. But if you do join.....You
meet the requirements above.. Also it does not have to be a good union
or association and it can be as you say"it is one of the most inept
and impractical of associations". It is an association. Therefore Its
meets the minimum requirements.


Funny, my dictionary gives the following among others:

An organization of employees formed to bargain with the employer

For Association it says, among others:

A formal organization of people or groups of people

Sounds different to me.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Millwright Ron wrote:

Non-producers,liars and trouble makers did not last long on my jobs.


You couldn't stand the competition?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:22:30 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Millwright Ron wrote:

Non-producers,liars and trouble makers did not last long on my jobs.


You couldn't stand the competition?
===========
I would be more inclined to suggest they bought a suit and went
into management, but that's just my perspective....


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:11:17 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, F.
George McDuffee quickly quoth:

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:22:30 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Millwright Ron wrote:

Non-producers,liars and trouble makers did not last long on my jobs.


You couldn't stand the competition?
===========
I would be more inclined to suggest they bought a suit and went
into management, but that's just my perspective....

I just read a passage in my current book which felt like that.

After Zaa has said something remarkably savvy...
Jeff: "How come I'm the administrator and you're the maintenance guy?"
Zaa: "Simple. You're not smart enough for maintenance."

Now, would you guys please plonk this troll and move on?

--
Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization.
-- Charles Lindbergh

The last time ol' "Millwright Wrong" brought the subject up, someone
pointed out that that union shops - in general - were much more angry
places to work than non-union shops.

My experience would be the same.

Plus, I've made MUCH more money being paid for what I know, and what I can
do, than for how long I've managed to tolerate the bullschidt....

Good luck to the UAW membership.......who will soon see how masterfully
union leadership can skim from retirement funds. Where do you suppose the
UAW president will be building his new retirement home?

Just ask the teamsters - known as the most crooked union in the world.

"*" wrote:

Good luck to the UAW membership.......who will soon see how masterfully
union leadership can skim from retirement funds. Where do you suppose the
UAW president will be building his new retirement home?

Where there is no extradition treaty?

On Oct 23, 9:08 am, "*" wrote:
The last time ol' "Millwright Wrong" brought the subject up, someone
pointed out that that union shops - in general - were much more angry
places to work than non-union shops.

My experience would be the same.

That was me, and since the last time I've had the displeasure of
watching a fairly large factory go union.

It's a slow process once the contract is signed but it's showing,
people who seemed perfectly happy before are now starting to see
"management screwing me" in places that don't make sense.

I always ask my union employees "what would that get me" when they
claim I'm doing some nonsense to screw them. If it doesn't actually
get me anything then why would I take the time to do it?

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 23, 9:08 am, "*" wrote:
The last time ol' "Millwright Wrong" brought the subject up, someone
pointed out that that union shops - in general - were much more angry
places to work than non-union shops.

My experience would be the same.

That was me, and since the last time I've had the displeasure of
watching a fairly large factory go union.

It's a slow process once the contract is signed but it's showing,
people who seemed perfectly happy before are now starting to see
"management screwing me" in places that don't make sense.

I always ask my union employees "what would that get me" when they
claim I'm doing some nonsense to screw them. If it doesn't actually
get me anything then why would I take the time to do it?


The very fact that these morons feel a need for a union is a strong enough
message that they "don't get it". My experience with union supporters
lends credence to the idea that they feel they are owed a living simply
because they exist, and are due their share of any and all profits that
might come from their contribution, in spite of the fact that they agreed to
sell their time to their employer for a given fee, their wages. Almost to
the man, none of them appear to make a connection between in earning their
pay, or in receiving pay in keeping with its value.

How is it that union people demand a share of the spoils, but are quick to
jump ship when a company falls on bad times, particularly at the hand of the
damned union(s), perhaps having to close the doors? Where are these people
that demanded unearned pay when the company might need a helping hand?
How many of them have you seen, voluntarily, put in time to save the
company? Their brains don't work like that. They're takers and users, and
will stop at nothing to achieve their goal of living off society.

Union machinists in the general Seattle area are slowly losing that fat cash
cow they've milked for years at Boeing. They've finally pushed management
to the point where they realize that they're far better off having
components made everywhere but here, than dealing with people that demand
money far beyond their value.

I worked as a machinist/toolmaker for most of my productive life, and
realize, all too well, the degree of skill and experience that one must have
to be qualified for the job. These people are worth money, but when they
demand wages in keeping with what a well educated doctor used to make, it's
time to get a reality check. That, or lose their jobs, as it turns out, is
how it's shaking out. Who's fault is it?

Harold

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
et...

snip

I worked as a machinist/toolmaker for most of my productive life, and
realize, all too well, the degree of skill and experience that one must
have to be qualified for the job. These people are worth money, but
when they demand wages in keeping with what a well educated doctor used to
make, it's time to get a reality check. That, or lose their jobs, as it
turns out, is how it's shaking out. Who's fault is it?

Harold

Don't get too upset with them, Harold. It's because of them that you were
able to make a living. Unions pushed the whole scale up to new heights for
all people who work, except for white-collar workers, for nearly a century.
And probably for most white-collar workers, too, indirectly.

The trendline without them would have had you scratching for a living.
That's the way it was going before unions really caught hold and there
really is nothing in the historical record to suggest it would have changed.

Now, their work is mostly done, but not completely. I think of them as a
useful annoyance that tend to accelerate a lot of problems that were going
to hell anyway. They've been self-destructing in recent decades but what
they leave in their wake is an expectation that a good worker should be able
to live somewhere in the middle class. That wasn't the case early in the
last century.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
et...

snip

I worked as a machinist/toolmaker for most of my productive life, and
realize, all too well, the degree of skill and experience that one must
have to be qualified for the job. These people are worth money, but
when they demand wages in keeping with what a well educated doctor used
to make, it's time to get a reality check. That, or lose their jobs, as
it turns out, is how it's shaking out. Who's fault is it?

Harold

Don't get too upset with them, Harold. It's because of them that you were
able to make a living. Unions pushed the whole scale up to new heights for
all people who work, except for white-collar workers, for nearly a
century. And probably for most white-collar workers, too, indirectly.

The trendline without them would have had you scratching for a living.
That's the way it was going before unions really caught hold and there
really is nothing in the historical record to suggest it would have
changed.

Now, their work is mostly done, but not completely. I think of them as a
useful annoyance that tend to accelerate a lot of problems that were going
to hell anyway. They've been self-destructing in recent decades but what
they leave in their wake is an expectation that a good worker should be
able to live somewhere in the middle class. That wasn't the case early in
the last century.

--
Ed Huntress


Thanks, Ed. I can always count on you to give me food for thought.

Truth is, I do realize how much good they did----it's just that the monkeys
are now running the zoo, with the real purpose being lost. Like any good
thing, once the crooks figure out there's a free ride, they're in on the
action, and those that still believe there's a free lunch are inclined to
follow.

It's a damned shame that what was once a noble thing has turned into a
dreadful anchor on humanity. As you suggested, however, it appears to be
resolving itself quite nicely.

My early years in the shop, in Utah, were a direct result of unions, or at
least their threat. Thanks to the horrible union problems of the mid
50's, at least on the east coast, Sperry sought a right to work state where
they might found a new business, for development and production of the
Sergeant Missile. They settled on Utah as their choice, and paid wages
that were no less than union scale, with great benefits. The only problems
I can recall, and I was there for 7-1/2 years, were those that you might
encounter anywhere----those with personalities. The company was more than
fair minded, and, as it turns out, was the best employer I was to have in my
limited time working for industry as an employee. It was clear to the vast
majority of workers that a union would serve no good purpose, and would
likely undermine the decent relationship we had with management.

Harold

On Oct 26, 6:31 pm, "Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...



On Oct 23, 9:08 am, "*" wrote:
The last time ol' "Millwright Wrong" brought the subject up, someone
pointed out that that union shops - in general - were much more angry
places to work than non-union shops.

My experience would be the same.

That was me, and since the last time I've had the displeasure of
watching a fairly large factory go union.

It's a slow process once the contract is signed but it's showing,
people who seemed perfectly happy before are now starting to see
"management screwing me" in places that don't make sense.

I always ask my union employees "what would that get me" when they
claim I'm doing some nonsense to screw them. If it doesn't actually
get me anything then why would I take the time to do it?

The very fact that these morons feel a need for a union is a strong enough
message that they "don't get it". My experience with union supporters
lends credence to the idea that they feel they are owed a living simply

In most peoples defense. Many people do not have a lot of experience
with Unions, and boy are they slick when selling themselves.

because they exist, and are due their share of any and all profits that
might come from their contribution, in spite of the fact that they agreed to
sell their time to their employer for a given fee, their wages. Almost to
the man, none of them appear to make a connection between in earning their
pay, or in receiving pay in keeping with its value.

I agree with you entirely with the end outcome. In all honesty a
revamp of the laws reguarding the pro/anti union communications
leading up to a vote would probably help fix a lot of things.

By law the company cannot lie to you about things during the run up,
where as the Union can (like in politics) promise anything, lie about
everything, and not follow through.

Unions are just another business, as long as they get their dues
they're happy.

wrote in message
ups.com...
snip--

Unions are just another business, as long as they get their dues
they're happy.


Yes--------happy to live off the misery of others. Who, in their right
mind, would want to be associated with such slugs?

Harold

On Oct 26, 3:31 pm, "Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...





On Oct 23, 9:08 am, "*" wrote:
The last time ol' "Millwright Wrong" brought the subject up, someone
pointed out that that union shops - in general - were much more angry
places to work than non-union shops.

My experience would be the same.

That was me, and since the last time I've had the displeasure of
watching a fairly large factory go union.

It's a slow process once the contract is signed but it's showing,
people who seemed perfectly happy before are now starting to see
"management screwing me" in places that don't make sense.

I always ask my union employees "what would that get me" when they
claim I'm doing some nonsense to screw them. If it doesn't actually
get me anything then why would I take the time to do it?

The very fact that these morons feel a need for a union is a strong enough
message that they "don't get it". My experience with union supporters
lends credence to the idea that they feel they are owed a living simply
because they exist, and are due their share of any and all profits that
might come from their contribution, in spite of the fact that they agreed to
sell their time to their employer for a given fee, their wages. Almost to
the man, none of them appear to make a connection between in earning their
pay, or in receiving pay in keeping with its value.

How is it that union people demand a share of the spoils, but are quick to
jump ship when a company falls on bad times, particularly at the hand of the
damned union(s), perhaps having to close the doors? Where are these people
that demanded unearned pay when the company might need a helping hand?
How many of them have you seen, voluntarily, put in time to save the
company? Their brains don't work like that. They're takers and users, and
will stop at nothing to achieve their goal of living off society.

Union machinists in the general Seattle area are slowly losing that fat cash
cow they've milked for years at Boeing. They've finally pushed management
to the point where they realize that they're far better off having
components made everywhere but here, than dealing with people that demand
money far beyond their value.

I worked as a machinist/toolmaker for most of my productive life, and
realize, all too well, the degree of skill and experience that one must have
to be qualified for the job. These people are worth money, but when they
demand wages in keeping with what a well educated doctor used to make, it's
time to get a reality check. That, or lose their jobs, as it turns out, is
how it's shaking out. Who's fault is it?

Harold- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised
wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits. Through
collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought
justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962

All Doctors belong to the Medical Association.. Guess what? That is a
Union..
Millwright Ron

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 23:45:21 -0800, Millwright Ron
wrote:

On Oct 26, 3:31 pm, "Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...


All Doctors belong to the Medical Association.. Guess what? That is a
Union..
Millwright Ron

Sorry mate, that just isn't true. When was the last time you say the
AMA take their membership out on strike for higher wages?



Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:displayed e-mail
address is a spam trap)

"Millwright Ron" wrote in message
ups.com...
snip-----

All Doctors belong to the Medical Association.. Guess what? That is a
Union..
Millwright Ron

Yes, that may be true, but a whore, by any other name, is still a whore.

Harold