well the successful ones do anyway.
they display lovely little motors that all run sweetly.
threaded components that look as though they have been ground and
honed. cylinders that squeak up perfectly at the top of the bore.

what I intently hate is the hiding of the tooling.
I can turn steel to an absolute mirror finish for utterly useless
things like spacers. try to get even a halfway decent finish on a
model part and the same tool will produce an edison record.

castings also drive me nuts. what the f#@% do these guys do in the
mould making that makes their molds work and mine produce crap?
(a line of rude words)

I decided to spend thousands and replace my tooling. all of it! to try
to get the finish quality that I seek.
lots of visits all over the place to try to locate decent rigid
tooling. finally after lots of looking I decide on a large rigid mill
and a toolroom quality lathe. I rock up one lunchtime with the cheque
book to purchase the two items. I'm there to write a cheque for nearly
$10,000 for two new machine tools. ahhhhh sorry we wont have any in
stock for another three or four months. f#@% f#@% f#@% f#@%!!!!
I go and hunt out an alternative lathe, a lovely little chinese lathe,
as well finished as any I've ever seen seen.
out with the cheque book again. ahhhhh sorry we havent any in stock
right now. maybe another three or four months... aaaaarrrgggggghhhhh!

all the while I see web page after web page of beautiful little motors
built by guys who all hide the tooling.

you all drive me nuts! I wish you *******s would all have ten stuffed
items for every decent thing you build!

whats the secret?
is there a switch on the back of my machine tools that is set to
'produce rough crap' ?
aaaaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mounted a new wheel on my 8 inch grinder tonight.
I machined up a spacer, an utterly useless spacer in 2024 aluminium,
absolutely polished finish straight off the tool. the wheel runs so
true that the grinder freewheels for 3 minutes after shutoff without a
sign of a rumble ....because it isnt a motor part!

I tell you, between trying to build schmick little motors and trying
to get the bloody carby on my aeroplane to work without leaking, I'm
loosing it!

I think I need a packet of stamps and a wet tongue so that I can go
bloody POSTAL!!!!!!

(I'm even changing my nom de plume)
TUMESFFFF
(the unsuccessful model engineer schmuck f#@% f#@% f#@% f#@%!)


uh oh the frustration is giving me a
coronaryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 00:00:11 +0800, Stealth Pilot wrote:

well the successful ones do anyway.
they display lovely little motors that all run sweetly.
threaded components that look as though they have been ground and
honed. cylinders that squeak up perfectly at the top of the bore.

what I intently hate is the hiding of the tooling.
I can turn steel to an absolute mirror finish for utterly useless
things like spacers. try to get even a halfway decent finish on a
model part and the same tool will produce an edison record.

castings also drive me nuts. what the f#@% do these guys do in the
mould making that makes their molds work and mine produce crap?
(a line of rude words)

I decided to spend thousands and replace my tooling. all of it! to try
to get the finish quality that I seek.
lots of visits all over the place to try to locate decent rigid
tooling. finally after lots of looking I decide on a large rigid mill
and a toolroom quality lathe. I rock up one lunchtime with the cheque
book to purchase the two items. I'm there to write a cheque for nearly
$10,000 for two new machine tools. ahhhhh sorry we wont have any in
stock for another three or four months. f#@% f#@% f#@% f#@%!!!!
I go and hunt out an alternative lathe, a lovely little chinese lathe,
as well finished as any I've ever seen seen.
out with the cheque book again. ahhhhh sorry we havent any in stock
right now. maybe another three or four months... aaaaarrrgggggghhhhh!

all the while I see web page after web page of beautiful little motors
built by guys who all hide the tooling.

you all drive me nuts! I wish you *******s would all have ten stuffed
items for every decent thing you build!

whats the secret?
is there a switch on the back of my machine tools that is set to
'produce rough crap' ?
aaaaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mounted a new wheel on my 8 inch grinder tonight.
I machined up a spacer, an utterly useless spacer in 2024 aluminium,
absolutely polished finish straight off the tool. the wheel runs so
true that the grinder freewheels for 3 minutes after shutoff without a
sign of a rumble ....because it isnt a motor part!

I tell you, between trying to build schmick little motors and trying
to get the bloody carby on my aeroplane to work without leaking, I'm
loosing it!

I think I need a packet of stamps and a wet tongue so that I can go
bloody POSTAL!!!!!!

(I'm even changing my nom de plume)
TUMESFFFF
(the unsuccessful model engineer schmuck f#@% f#@% f#@% f#@%!)


uh oh the frustration is giving me a
coronaryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

http://www.modelenginenews.org/

Look at the construction pages, and search for the word "stuff".

He's got pictures of his tooling and set up.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Oct 20, 12:13 pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 00:00:11 +0800, Stealth Pilot wrote:
well the successful ones do anyway.
they display lovely little motors that all run sweetly.
threaded components that look as though they have been ground and
honed. cylinders that squeak up perfectly at the top of the bore.

what I intently hate is the hiding of the tooling.
I can turn steel to an absolute mirror finish for utterly useless
things like spacers. try to get even a halfway decent finish on a
model part and the same tool will produce an edison record.

castings also drive me nuts. what the f#@% do these guys do in the
mould making that makes their molds work and mine produce crap?
(a line of rude words)

I decided to spend thousands and replace my tooling. all of it! to try
to get the finish quality that I seek.
lots of visits all over the place to try to locate decent rigid
tooling. finally after lots of looking I decide on a large rigid mill
and a toolroom quality lathe. I rock up one lunchtime with the cheque
book to purchase the two items. I'm there to write a cheque for nearly
$10,000 for two new machine tools. ahhhhh sorry we wont have any in
stock for another three or four months. f#@% f#@% f#@% f#@%!!!!
I go and hunt out an alternative lathe, a lovely little chinese lathe,
as well finished as any I've ever seen seen.
out with the cheque book again. ahhhhh sorry we havent any in stock
right now. maybe another three or four months... aaaaarrrgggggghhhhh!

all the while I see web page after web page of beautiful little motors
built by guys who all hide the tooling.

you all drive me nuts! I wish you *******s would all have ten stuffed
items for every decent thing you build!

whats the secret?
is there a switch on the back of my machine tools that is set to
'produce rough crap' ?
aaaaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mounted a new wheel on my 8 inch grinder tonight.
I machined up a spacer, an utterly useless spacer in 2024 aluminium,
absolutely polished finish straight off the tool. the wheel runs so
true that the grinder freewheels for 3 minutes after shutoff without a
sign of a rumble ....because it isnt a motor part!

I tell you, between trying to build schmick little motors and trying
to get the bloody carby on my aeroplane to work without leaking, I'm
loosing it!

I think I need a packet of stamps and a wet tongue so that I can go
bloody POSTAL!!!!!!

(I'm even changing my nom de plume)
TUMESFFFF
(the unsuccessful model engineer schmuck f#@% f#@% f#@% f#@%!)

uh oh the frustration is giving me a
coronaryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

http://www.modelenginenews.org/

Look at the construction pages, and search for the word "stuff".

He's got pictures of his tooling and set up.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consultinghttp://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes,http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html


Generally small engines' crank cases and cylinder heads are not built
from castings, but are machined from solid bar stock. 6061 T6
aluminum is very nice to use for this purpose.

As for dimensional accuracy and finish, you need to practice or, join
a model engineering club or take some courses at your local college.

Many, many, beautiful and well-running engines have been built on the
most clapped-out machines you can imagine. A nice, new, ACCURATE
machine will let you achieve this blissful state so much faster!

To get that "cast look" one simply subjects the machined object to a
bead blasting operation that leaves that nice matte finish.

Wolfgang

On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 00:00:11 +0800, Stealth Pilot
wrote:


well the successful ones do anyway.
they display lovely little motors that all run sweetly.
threaded components that look as though they have been ground and
honed. cylinders that squeak up perfectly at the top of the bore.

what I intently hate is the hiding of the tooling.
I can turn steel to an absolute mirror finish for utterly useless
things like spacers. try to get even a halfway decent finish on a
model part and the same tool will produce an edison record.

Hidden behind the tooling is the scrap bin full of eau chittes.

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:13:41 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote:


http://www.modelenginenews.org/


Thanks for that link. I now have enough information to do the rebuild of the
ED Mk II engine that I got off my dad 40 years ago :-)


Mark Rand
RTFM

SP, a $10k purchase probably isn't required, but I would hope that you would
get some decent machines for that amount.

http://barronaviation.com/Default.aspx?tabid=130&pid=0

This link was posted in the Chaski Home Machinist 3 in 1 Machines forum a
while ago.. see the "On a 3 in 1" thread.
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/...ic.php?t=77043

In another discussion, Jose R states that he actually contacted the model
machinist, Jerry Vaught by phone, and Jerry verified that he had machined
the model engine parts on the machine shown in the picture.

WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
news

well the successful ones do anyway.

I decided to spend thousands and replace my tooling. all of it! to try
to get the finish quality that I seek.
lots of visits all over the place to try to locate decent rigid
tooling. finally after lots of looking I decide on a large rigid mill
and a toolroom quality lathe. I rock up one lunchtime with the cheque
book to purchase the two items. I'm there to write a cheque for nearly
$10,000 for two new machine tools. ahhhhh sorry we wont have any in
stock for another three or four months. f#@% f#@% f#@% f#@%!!!!
I go and hunt out an alternative lathe, a lovely little chinese lathe,
as well finished as any I've ever seen seen.
out with the cheque book again. ahhhhh sorry we havent any in stock
right now. maybe another three or four months... aaaaarrrgggggghhhhh!

all the while I see web page after web page of beautiful little motors
built by guys who all hide the tooling.

you all drive me nuts! I wish you *******s would all have ten stuffed
items for every decent thing you build!

whats the secret?
is there a switch on the back of my machine tools that is set to
'produce rough crap' ?
aaaaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



(I'm even changing my nom de plume)
TUMESFFFF
(the unsuccessful model engineer schmuck f#@% f#@% f#@% f#@%!)


uh oh the frustration is giving me a

Stealth Pilot wrote:
well the successful ones do anyway.
they display lovely little motors that all run sweetly.
threaded components that look as though they have been ground and
honed. cylinders that squeak up perfectly at the top of the bore.

what I intently hate is the hiding of the tooling.
I can turn steel to an absolute mirror finish for utterly useless
things like spacers. try to get even a halfway decent finish on a
model part and the same tool will produce an edison record.

Worse than that, look at some of the little
jewels that Rudy Kouhoupt turned out with a
3 inch Unimat lathe....

Stealth Pilot wrote:

all the while I see web page after web page of beautiful little motors
built by guys who all hide the tooling.

you all drive me nuts! I wish you *******s would all have ten stuffed
items for every decent thing you build!

Why, they DO, of course! Now, some of these guys have had few
bad parts lately, but they made plenty when they started out,
just like me and you! But, they don't bring THOSE to the shows,
or put pictures of them in the magazines!
whats the secret?
is there a switch on the back of my machine tools that is set to
'produce rough crap' ?
aaaaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think in the sports world, they call this "choking". If you
can make great parts except those that you really CARE about,
then it is a psychological thing, like the great golf player who
plays great through an entire tournament, but then blows a 3
foot putt to lose the whole match.

But, maybe it is a materials thing. Engine parts are often made
of "harder stuff", and that always stresses the machine and
tooling more. Tell an experienced engine maker that YOU never
had a chatter problem in Inconel, and he'll throw you out of the
shop as an obvious liar!

Jon

Stealth Pilot wrote:

whats the secret?

Know your machines. Know your process, find different ways to get something
nice with your crappy tools.

is there a switch on the back of my machine tools that is set to
'produce rough crap' ?

No, not a switch. They sometimes need some TLC. They don't like cursing.


Nick
--
The lowcost-DRO:
http://www.yadro.de

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:54:24 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:13:41 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote:


http://www.modelenginenews.org/


Thanks for that link. I now have enough information to do the rebuild of the
ED Mk II engine that I got off my dad 40 years ago :-)


Mark Rand
RTFM

I'm glad something good came out of my rant. :-)

I went out today and threw out the whole $10,000 retool idea.
To salve my soul I rescued a very old Myford ML7 from an unfortunate
future.
The old girl has seen far better days but looking at the myford site
in the UK I'm amazed to find that I can do much of the rebuild with
factory original spares.

The first job this little lathe has after the rebuild is to turn me a
new cross slide nut for my main lathe. with a mountain of slop removed
the turning might just get better.

TUMESFFFF

....
what I intently hate is the hiding of the tooling.
....
whats the secret?


I'm kinda late to your thread.

I see nobody mentioned the cutting tool itself. Especially on lathes. the
secret to a mirror finish is in the sharpening and honing of a HSS tool bit.
A total POS lathe can make a mirror finish part with the right bit. I was
lucky enough to have an old journeyman machinist instructor show me the ways
when I took shop class 25 years ago.

For mills, you can't beat a flycutter with a poperly sharpened HHS bit to
get the same result. Honing the corners of HSS endmills will also get rid of
those swirl marks, but I've never made it to a mirror finish with one. You
can bet those great model engineers have figured it out.

Karl

"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
news
whats the secret?

Now that we've learned the "secret" I'd like to know where these guys
get the drawings from to make any kind of engine or model. Were do you
look?.

B

B wrote:

where these guys get the drawings from to make any kind of
engine or model. Were do you look?.

Model Engine Builder! www.modelenginebuilder.com
Besides the *excellent* plans, you'll also learn a lot of tricks.


Nick
--
The lowcost-DRO:
http://www.yadro.de

Nick Mueller wrote:
B wrote:

where these guys get the drawings from to make any kind of
engine or model. Were do you look?.

Model Engine Builder! www.modelenginebuilder.com
Besides the *excellent* plans, you'll also learn a lot of tricks.

Model Engine Builder!

The owner of the magazine is a good guy and
supports the hobby greatly. He's also a
very active member of BAEM
http://www.baemclub.com/

Strictly I.C. magazine. No longer published,
but all back issues are available
http://www.strictlyic.com/

Model Engine News
http://modelenginenews.org/

Books by Phil Duclos and Rudy Kouhoupt.

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:50:20 +0000, B wrote:

Now that we've learned the "secret" I'd like to know where these guys get
the drawings from to make any kind of engine or model. Were do you look?.


Try
http://www.myhobbystore.com
and go to Model Engineering Plans for a lot
of the Model Engineer plans, steam, i/c, and workshop plans.
or:
http://www.xlistplans.demon.co.uk/
for another 2500 or so plans of all varieties.

Then go to Tee Publishing:
http://www.teepublishing.co.uk/
look at Rare and out-of-print magazines to buy the back issues of the
magazines for often step-by-step guidance on how to build.
From Tee I just purchased a Model Engineer from 1944 and another from
1947 on a Naval Quick Firing Gun that uses an old .22 barrel for the
barrel - days long gone!!

Careful- it's addictive.

Mike

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 12:30:50 -0500, Don Foreman wrote:

Hidden behind the tooling is the scrap bin full of eau chittes.

That's why I want to get my furnace going good enough to deal with brass
(in addition to the aluminum it already does) before I worry about the rest
of the shop; nobody can see the mistakes after it's been re-poured.