Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).



Best Regards

Tom.

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:17:15 -0700, "azotic"
wrote:

Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

Best Regards

Tom.
===========
The Senate is smarter than I gave them credit for.

If I was a Senator I would not want people running around loose
with guns either, any more than if I were a deer.....


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.

On Sep 26, 8:17 pm, "azotic" wrote:
Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

Best Regards

Tom.

Good....I have always maintained that a psych test should be the
requirement for gun purchasing and for continued gun ownership.

If you have the right to own a gun, you also have the responsibility
to use it properly...no excuses.

If you cannot handle the responsibility, you have no right to own a
gun.

TMT..a card carrying NRA member

"azotic" wrote:

Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-2640


Rep. Carolyn McCarthy [D-NY]hide cosponsors
Cosponsors [as of 2007-07-29]
Rep. Timothy Bishop [D-NY]
Rep. Frederick Boucher [D-VA]
Rep. Lois Capps [D-CA]
Rep. Michael Castle [R-DE]
Del. Donna Christensen [D-VI]
Rep. John Dingell [D-MI]
Rep. Rahm Emanuel [D-IL]
Rep. Nita Lowey [D-NY]
Rep. Dennis Moore [D-KS]
Rep. James Moran [D-VA]
Rep. William Pascrell [D-NJ]
Rep. Mike Ross [D-AR]
Rep. Janice Schakowsky [D-IL]
Rep. Christopher Shays [R-CT]
Rep. Brad Sherman [D-CA]
Rep. Lamar Smith [R-TX]
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz [D-FL]

Vote accordingly.

Wes

On Sep 26, 8:47 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Sep 26, 8:17 pm, "azotic" wrote:

Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

Best Regards

Tom.

Good....I have always maintained that a psych test should be the
requirement for gun purchasing and for continued gun ownership.

If you have the right to own a gun, you also have the responsibility
to use it properly...no excuses.

If you cannot handle the responsibility, you have no right to own a
gun.

TMT..a card carrying NRA member

Hell, lets require a psyh test for anyone living in the US as well.
Too many nutcases around with voting rights

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 26, 8:17 pm, "azotic" wrote:
Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA
program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire
gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a
Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

Best Regards

Tom.

Good....I have always maintained that a psych test should be the
requirement for gun purchasing and for continued gun ownership.


Of course every school kid will now be diagnosed with ADHD as part of
hillarys
heath care scam, a school nurse will declare every kid nuts. And as a bonus
parents
with kids will have thier guns confiscated because a school nurse said so.

Best Regards
Tom.

On Sep 26, 8:59 pm, Wes wrote:
"azotic" wrote:
Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-2640

Rep. Carolyn McCarthy [D-NY]hide cosponsors
Cosponsors [as of 2007-07-29]
Rep. Timothy Bishop [D-NY]
Rep. Frederick Boucher [D-VA]
Rep. Lois Capps [D-CA]
Rep. Michael Castle [R-DE]
Del. Donna Christensen [D-VI]
Rep. John Dingell [D-MI]
Rep. Rahm Emanuel [D-IL]
Rep. Nita Lowey [D-NY]
Rep. Dennis Moore [D-KS]
Rep. James Moran [D-VA]
Rep. William Pascrell [D-NJ]
Rep. Mike Ross [D-AR]
Rep. Janice Schakowsky [D-IL]
Rep. Christopher Shays [R-CT]
Rep. Brad Sherman [D-CA]
Rep. Lamar Smith [R-TX]
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz [D-FL]

Vote accordingly.

Wes

Reelect them?

TMT

On Sep 26, 9:00 pm, Gerry wrote:
On Sep 26, 8:47 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:





On Sep 26, 8:17 pm, "azotic" wrote:

Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

Best Regards

Tom.

Good....I have always maintained that a psych test should be the
requirement for gun purchasing and for continued gun ownership.

If you have the right to own a gun, you also have the responsibility
to use it properly...no excuses.

If you cannot handle the responsibility, you have no right to own a
gun.

TMT..a card carrying NRA member

Hell, lets require a psyh test for anyone living in the US as well.
Too many nutcases around with voting rights- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ever been around someone with a gun and no brains?

I have...some people have NO business having a gun.

TMT

azotic wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 26, 8:17 pm, "azotic" wrote:
Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA
program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire
gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a
Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

Best Regards

Tom.
Good....I have always maintained that a psych test should be the
requirement for gun purchasing and for continued gun ownership.


Of course every school kid will now be diagnosed with ADHD as part of
hillarys
heath care scam, a school nurse will declare every kid nuts. And as a bonus
parents
with kids will have thier guns confiscated because a school nurse said so.

Hey, while we're at it, let's take away everyone's
guns who's blood pressure is greater than 110/70.

Never know when you're going to have a stroke just
as you pull the trigger.

"Gerry" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 26, 8:47 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Sep 26, 8:17 pm, "azotic" wrote:

Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns
if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder;
or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA
program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his
entire gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a
Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

Best Regards

Tom.

Good....I have always maintained that a psych test should be the
requirement for gun purchasing and for continued gun ownership.

If you have the right to own a gun, you also have the responsibility
to use it properly...no excuses.

If you cannot handle the responsibility, you have no right to own a
gun.

TMT..a card carrying NRA member

Hell, lets require a psyh test for anyone living in the US as well.
Too many nutcases around with voting rights


We could set up a federal department of gun control, every month you will
be required to undergo a series of psyh tests administrated by a member
of doctors against guns.

Best Regards
Tom.

azotic wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
ups.com...

On Sep 26, 8:17 pm, "azotic" wrote:

Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA
program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire
gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a
Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

Best Regards

Tom.

Good....I have always maintained that a psych test should be the
requirement for gun purchasing and for continued gun ownership.



Of course every school kid will now be diagnosed with ADHD as part of
hillarys
heath care scam, a school nurse will declare every kid nuts. And as a bonus
parents
with kids will have thier guns confiscated because a school nurse said so.

Best Regards
Tom.




That's what the democraps arre aiming (pun intended) for. No guns for
the public. An armed public is a threat to power hungry and incompetent
politicians (basically all of them.)

Jim Chandler

On Sep 26, 10:53 pm, Jim Chandler wrote:
azotic wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...

On Sep 26, 8:17 pm, "azotic" wrote:

Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA
program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire
gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a
Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

Best Regards

Tom.

Good....I have always maintained that a psych test should be the
requirement for gun purchasing and for continued gun ownership.

Of course every school kid will now be diagnosed with ADHD as part of
hillarys
heath care scam, a school nurse will declare every kid nuts. And as a bonus
parents
with kids will have thier guns confiscated because a school nurse said so.

Best Regards
Tom.

That's what the democraps arre aiming (pun intended) for. No guns for
the public. An armed public is a threat to power hungry and incompetent
politicians (basically all of them.)

Jim Chandler- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I do not believe you.

I know many Democrats who own guns...and don't shoot their friends in
the face.

Hmm....do you think Cheney would pass a psych test?

TMT

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 26, 10:53 pm, Jim Chandler wrote:
azotic wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...

On Sep 26, 8:17 pm, "azotic" wrote:

Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns
if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder;
or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA
program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his
entire
gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a
Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

Best Regards

Tom.

Good....I have always maintained that a psych test should be the
requirement for gun purchasing and for continued gun ownership.

Of course every school kid will now be diagnosed with ADHD as part of
hillarys
heath care scam, a school nurse will declare every kid nuts. And as a
bonus
parents
with kids will have thier guns confiscated because a school nurse said
so.

Best Regards
Tom.

That's what the democraps arre aiming (pun intended) for. No guns for
the public. An armed public is a threat to power hungry and incompetent
politicians (basically all of them.)

Jim Chandler- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I do not believe you.

I know many Democrats who own guns...and don't shoot their friends in
the face.

Hmm....do you think Cheney would pass a psych test?

TMT


Remember Vince Foster, the guy who murdered him was a democrat.

Best Regards
Tom.

Jim Chandler wrote:

azotic wrote:

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
ups.com...

On Sep 26, 8:17 pm, "azotic" wrote:

Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns
if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress
Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA
program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his
entire gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a
Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

Best Regards

Tom.


Good....I have always maintained that a psych test should be the
requirement for gun purchasing and for continued gun ownership.



Of course every school kid will now be diagnosed with ADHD as part of
hillarys
heath care scam, a school nurse will declare every kid nuts. And as a
bonus parents
with kids will have thier guns confiscated because a school nurse said
so.

Best Regards
Tom.



That's what the democraps arre aiming (pun intended) for. No guns for
the public. An armed public is a threat to power hungry and incompetent
politicians (basically all of them.)

Jim Chandler

No accusation?
No trial?
No sentence?

Just guilty as charged?
Gee, that must be real nice (for someone).

But I can't really believe that's all there is to it.

Richard

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
(snip)
Reelect them?

TMT

Ah yes, an NRA member posting in a newsgroup. Clearly a sign of
derangement. You need to turn in all your guns immediately before we have
to send out the police to collect them. Hurry up now.

Gerry wrote:

Hell, lets require a psyh test for anyone living in the US as well.
Too many nutcases around with voting rights

Heck, maybe we should test our politicians. It would seem like someone that
never held a job in the private sector, keeps running for new jobs and
abandons the last job he or she was elected to work in and likes to tell
people how to live their lives might have some issues.

Wes
NRA Life Member (my NRA card isn't expired)

Todd Rich wrote:

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
(snip)
Reelect them?

TMT

Ah yes, an NRA member posting in a newsgroup. Clearly a sign of
derangement. You need to turn in all your guns immediately before we have
to send out the police to collect them. Hurry up now.


If you want people's guns, go knocking on doors for yourself.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

azotic wrote:
Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).



Best Regards

Tom.




The system really does still work.

Checks and balances are not ONLY financial terms.

And American Principles are not ONLY deposits drawing interest.


to wit:

U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken, who was appointed to the bench by
President Clinton, found that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act,
as amended by the Patriot Act, unlawfully "permits the executive branch
to conduct surveillance and searches of American citizens without
satisfying the probable cause requirements" of the Fourth Amendment.


http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3657692&page=1

On Sep 27, 12:29 am, "azotic" wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

oups.com...





On Sep 26, 10:53 pm, Jim Chandler wrote:
azotic wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...

On Sep 26, 8:17 pm, "azotic" wrote:

Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns
if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder;
or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA
program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his
entire
gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a
Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

Best Regards

Tom.

Good....I have always maintained that a psych test should be the
requirement for gun purchasing and for continued gun ownership.

Of course every school kid will now be diagnosed with ADHD as part of
hillarys
heath care scam, a school nurse will declare every kid nuts. And as a
bonus
parents
with kids will have thier guns confiscated because a school nurse said
so.

Best Regards
Tom.

That's what the democraps arre aiming (pun intended) for. No guns for
the public. An armed public is a threat to power hungry and incompetent
politicians (basically all of them.)

Jim Chandler- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I do not believe you.

I know many Democrats who own guns...and don't shoot their friends in
the face.

Hmm....do you think Cheney would pass a psych test?

TMT

Remember Vince Foster, the guy who murdered him was a democrat.

Best Regards
Tom.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And your point?

That he was a better shot than Cheney?

Any Democrat is a better shot than Cheney.

Hmm....do you think Cheney would pass a psych test?

It is obvious that he is a Republican who should not own a gun.


TMT

On Sep 27, 5:20 am, Todd Rich wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

(snip)

Reelect them?
TMT

Ah yes, an NRA member posting in a newsgroup. Clearly a sign of
derangement. You need to turn in all your guns immediately before we have
to send out the police to collect them. Hurry up now.

I know..I know...one would think that a NRA member would not be able
to spell.

I even know how to vote .... Republican or Democrat.

TMT

On Sep 27, 8:01 am, Wes wrote:
Gerry wrote:
Hell, lets require a psyh test for anyone living in the US as well.
Too many nutcases around with voting rights

Heck, maybe we should test our politicians. It would seem like someone that
never held a job in the private sector, keeps running for new jobs and
abandons the last job he or she was elected to work in and likes to tell
people how to live their lives might have some issues.

Wes
NRA Life Member (my NRA card isn't expired)

LOL...sounds like a good idea.

Why don't we test the sitting President first?

And his Vice President next?

TMT

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
ups.com...

snip


Remember Vince Foster, the guy who murdered him was a democrat.

Best Regards
Tom.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And your point?

That he was a better shot than Cheney?

Any Democrat is a better shot than Cheney.

What the hell? Do you guys have the *real* story on Vince Foster's death,
and you haven't told anybody?

Or have you borrowed Gunner's crystal ball? d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

azotic wrote:

Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

Best Regards

Tom.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=h110-2640 ???


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
azotic wrote:

Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

Best Regards

Tom.


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=h110-2640 ???



Thanks, Michael.
I was studying that (carefully) last night.


I have a PTSD disability from Viet Nam (big deal) but...

I've never been adjudicated as a mental defective (despite what the
poodles here may think.)

Nor do I have a dishonorable discharge. Either time.

Nor have I renounced my citizenship.


So the opening post of this thread (TOM!) seems to me to be a bit alarmist.

Provocative, even.

So, Tom???, you want to maybe wade back in here on this?

Richard

(Arms folded and tapping his foot...)




From HR

SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.

As used in this Act, the following definitions shall apply:

(1) COURT ORDER- The term `court order' includes a court
order (as described in section 922(g)(8) of title 18, United States
Code).

(2) MENTAL HEALTH TERMS- The terms `adjudicated as a mental
defective', `committed to a mental institution', and related terms have
the meanings given those terms in regulations implementing section
922(g)(4) of title 18, United States Code, as in effect on the date of
the enactment of this Act.

(3) MISDEMEANOR CRIME OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE- The term
`misdemeanor crime of domestic violence' has the meaning given the term
in section 921(a)(33) of title 18, United States Code.




Below is copied from U.S. Code Title 18 - 922 (g) = Unlawful acts
As referenced above See item 4...




(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by
imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) who is a fugitive from justice;
(3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance
(as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C.
802));



(4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been
committed to a mental institution;

(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the
United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in
section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101
(a)(26)));
(6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable
conditions;
(7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his
citizenship;
(8) who is subject to a court order that—
(A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual
notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;
(B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an
intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or
person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate
partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and
(C)
(i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to
the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or
(ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or
threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child
that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or
(9) who has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of
domestic violence,
to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or
affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm
or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or
foreign commerce.

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:47:40 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:


Good....I have always maintained that a psych test should be the
requirement for gun purchasing and for continued gun ownership.

If you have the right to own a gun, you also have the responsibility
to use it properly...no excuses.

If you cannot handle the responsibility, you have no right to own a
gun.

TMT..a card carrying NRA member


So if they pull your guns, then you will also have no problem with
them also removing your first amendment rights.

In fact...given a number of your posts...its obvious you cant post
responsibly.

Good to see a Doctor can remove your Constitutional Rights at his
whim.

Gunner

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:16:36 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:


Hell, lets require a psyh test for anyone living in the US as well.
Too many nutcases around with voting rights- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ever been around someone with a gun and no brains?

I have...some people have NO business having a gun.

TMT


Some people have NO business with Internet Acess either.

Gunner

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:15:25 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Sep 26, 8:59 pm, Wes wrote:
"azotic" wrote:
Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-2640

Rep. Carolyn McCarthy [D-NY]hide cosponsors
Cosponsors [as of 2007-07-29]
Rep. Timothy Bishop [D-NY]
Rep. Frederick Boucher [D-VA]
Rep. Lois Capps [D-CA]
Rep. Michael Castle [R-DE]
Del. Donna Christensen [D-VI]
Rep. John Dingell [D-MI]
Rep. Rahm Emanuel [D-IL]
Rep. Nita Lowey [D-NY]
Rep. Dennis Moore [D-KS]
Rep. James Moran [D-VA]
Rep. William Pascrell [D-NJ]
Rep. Mike Ross [D-AR]
Rep. Janice Schakowsky [D-IL]
Rep. Christopher Shays [R-CT]
Rep. Brad Sherman [D-CA]
Rep. Lamar Smith [R-TX]
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz [D-FL]

Vote accordingly.

Wes

Reelect them?

TMT

Got Rope?

Gunner

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 27, 12:29 am, "azotic" wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

oups.com...





On Sep 26, 10:53 pm, Jim Chandler wrote:
azotic wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...

On Sep 26, 8:17 pm, "azotic" wrote:

Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning
guns
if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress
Disorder;
or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA
program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his
entire
gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a
Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

Best Regards

Tom.

Good....I have always maintained that a psych test should be the
requirement for gun purchasing and for continued gun ownership.

Of course every school kid will now be diagnosed with ADHD as part
of
hillarys
heath care scam, a school nurse will declare every kid nuts. And as
a
bonus
parents
with kids will have thier guns confiscated because a school nurse
said
so.

Best Regards
Tom.

That's what the democraps arre aiming (pun intended) for. No guns for
the public. An armed public is a threat to power hungry and
incompetent
politicians (basically all of them.)

Jim Chandler- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I do not believe you.

I know many Democrats who own guns...and don't shoot their friends in
the face.

Hmm....do you think Cheney would pass a psych test?

TMT

Remember Vince Foster, the guy who murdered him was a democrat.

Best Regards
Tom.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And your point?

That he was a better shot than Cheney?

Any Democrat is a better shot than Cheney.


Registered Democrat Phil Spector is.

Best Regards
Tom.

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:47:40 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:


Good....I have always maintained that a psych test should be the
requirement for gun purchasing and for continued gun ownership.

If you have the right to own a gun, you also have the responsibility
to use it properly...no excuses.

If you cannot handle the responsibility, you have no right to own a
gun.

TMT..a card carrying NRA member


So if they pull your guns, then you will also have no problem with
them also removing your first amendment rights.

So, you're in favor of arming mental defectives and psychotics, eh?

--
Ed Huntress

"azotic" wrote in message
...
Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA
program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire
gun collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a
Medicare home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).



Best Regards

Tom.

Tom, you may be interested in what the NRA/ILA has to say about this bill:

"The new version of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act (H.R. 2640) would
require federal agencies to provide records of prohibited individuals for
use in NICS. It would also provide financial incentives to states to do the
same, by rewarding states that provide records to NICS and penalizing those
that refuse to do so over an extended period of time.

"Some pro-gun groups have claimed that H.R. 2640 would "prohibit"
thousands of people from owning guns. This is not true; these bills would
only enforce current prohibitions. In fact, H.R. 2640 would allow some
people now unfairly prohibited from owning guns to have their rights
restored, and to have their names removed from the instant check system."

Which brings up the question, which of the "pro-gun groups" did you
get your information from? It also raises another question: why did you
believe them without first reading the bill?

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=h110-2640

--

Ed Huntress

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 26, 8:59 pm, Wes wrote:
"azotic" wrote:
Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA
program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire
gun
collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a
Medicare
home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-2640

Rep. Carolyn McCarthy [D-NY]hide cosponsors
Cosponsors [as of 2007-07-29]
Rep. Timothy Bishop [D-NY]
Rep. Frederick Boucher [D-VA]
Rep. Lois Capps [D-CA]
Rep. Michael Castle [R-DE]
Del. Donna Christensen [D-VI]
Rep. John Dingell [D-MI]
Rep. Rahm Emanuel [D-IL]
Rep. Nita Lowey [D-NY]
Rep. Dennis Moore [D-KS]
Rep. James Moran [D-VA]
Rep. William Pascrell [D-NJ]
Rep. Mike Ross [D-AR]
Rep. Janice Schakowsky [D-IL]
Rep. Christopher Shays [R-CT]
Rep. Brad Sherman [D-CA]
Rep. Lamar Smith [R-TX]
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz [D-FL]

Vote accordingly.

Wes

Reelect them?

If you actually read the bill, two things stand out: First, Tom's comments
are not based on anything in the bill, but must be from some neurotic freak
at one of the over-the-top gun nutz sites. Second, the tone of the bill and
all of its caveats makes it look like it was written by the NRA/ILA.

Then when you read the sanguine comments about the bill at the NRA site you
realize that in fact they probably did have a decisive hand in writing the
bill. That's what lobbies do, after all.

--
Ed Huntress

In article , "Ed Huntress" wrote:

If you actually read the bill, two things stand out: First, Tom's comments
are not based on anything in the bill, but must be from some neurotic freak
at one of the over-the-top gun nutz sites. Second, the tone of the bill and
all of its caveats makes it look like it was written by the NRA/ILA.

Then when you read the sanguine comments about the bill at the NRA site you
realize that in fact they probably did have a decisive hand in writing the
bill. That's what lobbies do, after all.

Third, seeing John Dingell and Lamar Smith signed up as cosponsors should have
been a signal that, from a gun-rights standpoint, the bill couldn't possibly
all *that* bad...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

If you actually read the bill, two things stand out: First, Tom's comments
are not based on anything in the bill, but must be from some neurotic
freak
at one of the over-the-top gun nutz sites. Second, the tone of the bill
and
all of its caveats makes it look like it was written by the NRA/ILA.

Then when you read the sanguine comments about the bill at the NRA site
you
realize that in fact they probably did have a decisive hand in writing the
bill. That's what lobbies do, after all.

Third, seeing John Dingell and Lamar Smith signed up as cosponsors should
have
been a signal that, from a gun-rights standpoint, the bill couldn't
possibly
all *that* bad...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Aha! Dingell apparently is the link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...041902437.html

And there's the hand of the NRA, as I suspected. They don't say that a
gun-related bill "restores rights" unless they wrote it themselves. g

Also, there is a hint in that article that GOA may be the source of the
neurotic freak who wrote the nonsense that started this thread.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"azotic" wrote in message
...
Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA
program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire
gun collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a
Medicare home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).



Best Regards

Tom.

Tom, you may be interested in what the NRA/ILA has to say about this bill:

"The new version of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act (H.R. 2640) would
require federal agencies to provide records of prohibited individuals for
use in NICS. It would also provide financial incentives to states to do
the same, by rewarding states that provide records to NICS and penalizing
those that refuse to do so over an extended period of time.

"Some pro-gun groups have claimed that H.R. 2640 would "prohibit"
thousands of people from owning guns. This is not true; these bills would
only enforce current prohibitions. In fact, H.R. 2640 would allow some
people now unfairly prohibited from owning guns to have their rights
restored, and to have their names removed from the instant check system."

Which brings up the question, which of the "pro-gun groups" did you
get your information from? It also raises another question: why did you
believe them without first reading the bill?

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=h110-2640

--

Ed Huntress




Hello Ed

I did read the bill.

Information came from:

http://www.gunowners.org/netb.htm

http://lpcolorado.blogs.com/lpcolora...ns-disarm.html

http://infowars.net/articles/septemb...0907gunban.htm

The part i have a problem with :

Section 102((1)©(iv) in HR 2640 provides for dumping raw medical records
into the system which will then, by law, serve as the basis for gun banning.

Raw unchecked data can be very dangerous, it can be very costly to clear
ones good name.

"Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America has compared the veteran's disarmament
bill to actions undertaken by the Clinton Administration in the late 90s:

This is exactly what President Bill Clinton did over seven years ago when
his administration illegitimately added some 83,000 veterans into the
National Criminal Information System (NICS system) -- prohibiting them from
purchasing firearms, simply because of afflictions like PTSD.
Pratt explains that the bill radically redefines key legal terms to allow
gun ownership rights to be stripped on the findings of a psychiatric
diagnosis, where in the past gun rights could only be withdrawn through an
adjudication by a judge, magistrate or court with the protections of due
process.

Pratt also points out that although veterans affected by the bill could seek
expungement under its terms, the expungement process in general has been
blocked for over a decade by a "funds cut-off" engineered by Schumer
himself."



The way the whole thing was done smells from the getgo, theres a much larger
agenda at work here.

Best Regards

Tom.

"azotic" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"azotic" wrote in message
...
Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA
program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his entire
gun collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a
Medicare home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).



Best Regards

Tom.

Tom, you may be interested in what the NRA/ILA has to say about this
bill:

"The new version of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act (H.R. 2640) would
require federal agencies to provide records of prohibited individuals for
use in NICS. It would also provide financial incentives to states to do
the same, by rewarding states that provide records to NICS and penalizing
those that refuse to do so over an extended period of time.

"Some pro-gun groups have claimed that H.R. 2640 would "prohibit"
thousands of people from owning guns. This is not true; these bills would
only enforce current prohibitions. In fact, H.R. 2640 would allow some
people now unfairly prohibited from owning guns to have their rights
restored, and to have their names removed from the instant check system."

Which brings up the question, which of the "pro-gun groups" did you
get your information from? It also raises another question: why did you
believe them without first reading the bill?

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=h110-2640

--

Ed Huntress




Hello Ed

I did read the bill.

Information came from:

http://www.gunowners.org/netb.htm

http://lpcolorado.blogs.com/lpcolora...ns-disarm.html

http://infowars.net/articles/septemb...0907gunban.htm

Aha. The usual suspects. d8-)


The part i have a problem with :

Section 102((1)©(iv) in HR 2640 provides for dumping raw medical records
into the system which will then, by law, serve as the basis for gun
banning.

There are six subsections to 102(1), Tom, and the claim you make is not in
any one of them. A person must be *adjudicated* mentally defective or
*committed* to a mental institution, under the definitions of Title 18 of
the US Code. And Title 18 (specifically, 922(g)(4) of title 18, United
States Code) is the background-check law AS IT STANDS TODAY.

In other words, there is no change in the law regarding *who* is restricted.
Which is exactly what the NRA is saying.

The GOA is trying to pull the wool over its members eyes by claiming that
there is some new restriction in this bill, which there is not. What this
bill is about is funding an old unfunded mandate, applying a carrot and a
stick to get the states to comply with the instant background-check
requirements.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"azotic" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"azotic" wrote in message
...
Senate wants to disarm vets.

If this bill is passed, an American would be barred from owning guns
if:

* He is a U.S. veteran suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder;
or

* As a kid, he was diagnosed with ADHD in connection with the IDEA
program.

Not to mention the fact that an ailing grandfather could have his
entire
gun collection seized, based only on a diagnosis of Alzheimer's from a
Medicare home health provider (and there goes the family inheritance).



Best Regards

Tom.

Tom, you may be interested in what the NRA/ILA has to say about this
bill:

"The new version of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act (H.R. 2640)
would
require federal agencies to provide records of prohibited individuals
for
use in NICS. It would also provide financial incentives to states to do
the same, by rewarding states that provide records to NICS and
penalizing
those that refuse to do so over an extended period of time.

"Some pro-gun groups have claimed that H.R. 2640 would "prohibit"
thousands of people from owning guns. This is not true; these bills
would
only enforce current prohibitions. In fact, H.R. 2640 would allow some
people now unfairly prohibited from owning guns to have their rights
restored, and to have their names removed from the instant check
system."

Which brings up the question, which of the "pro-gun groups" did
you
get your information from? It also raises another question: why did you
believe them without first reading the bill?

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=h110-2640

--

Ed Huntress




Hello Ed

I did read the bill.

Information came from:

http://www.gunowners.org/netb.htm

http://lpcolorado.blogs.com/lpcolora...ns-disarm.html

http://infowars.net/articles/septemb...0907gunban.htm

Aha. The usual suspects. d8-)


The part i have a problem with :

Section 102((1)©(iv) in HR 2640 provides for dumping raw medical records
into the system which will then, by law, serve as the basis for gun
banning.

There are six subsections to 102(1), Tom, and the claim you make is not in
any one of them. A person must be *adjudicated* mentally defective or
*committed* to a mental institution, under the definitions of Title 18 of
the US Code. And Title 18 (specifically, 922(g)(4) of title 18, United
States Code) is the background-check law AS IT STANDS TODAY.

In other words, there is no change in the law regarding *who* is
restricted.
Which is exactly what the NRA is saying.

The GOA is trying to pull the wool over its members eyes by claiming that
there is some new restriction in this bill, which there is not. What this
bill is about is funding an old unfunded mandate, applying a carrot and a
stick to get the states to comply with the instant background-check
requirements.

--
Ed Huntress

Ya, right .... duh, don't we ever learn anything?

I'm old enough to remember when abortion was made legal. It was a noble
effort we were told to prevent the women from being subjected to "back
alley" butchers. It would only be used as a last effort means. Who could
be against that?
Well, almost 40 years later some women are yanking viable babies out ( many
are left to die on the table), and it's legal.
We are where we are today because of a simple effort to correct a wrong.

The gays were really being pummeled, so we pass a law that was only meant to
prevent discrimination. I saw nothing wrong with that until the gays took
that as a mandate to teach our children the "joys" of being gay. They
wanted gay marriages and the right to adopt children. Like many of these
kids are not going to be sex toys for their dysfunction. Groups like NAMBA
are embraced by many gay men.
We are where we are today because of a simple effort to correct a wrong.

When will we learn that these innocent, good intentioned laws are used as a
stepping stone by legislators to customize it's purpose to suit them?

You don't use liberty overnight but one tiny step at a time.

A good example today is the "War". Check your Constriction and read what
is required for a war to be declared. Yet we follow lock stepped because
the whole Iraq fiasco is called a "War" when it does not meet the
Constitutional criteria to be a legal war
If the Constitution were followed we would never had Vietnam.

What does our Constitution say about war?

Our Founders divided war into two separate powers: Congress was given the
power to declare war and the president was given the power to wage war. What
that means is that under our system of government, the president cannot
legally wage war against another nation in the absence of a declaration of
war against that nation from Congress.

'The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do
nothing. English philosopher Edmund Burke

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 00:58:31 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner quickly quoth:

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:47:40 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:


Good....I have always maintained that a psych test should be the
requirement for gun purchasing and for continued gun ownership.

If you have the right to own a gun, you also have the responsibility
to use it properly...no excuses.

If you cannot handle the responsibility, you have no right to own a
gun.

TMT..a card carrying NRA member


So if they pull your guns, then you will also have no problem with
them also removing your first amendment rights.

In fact...given a number of your posts...its obvious you cant post
responsibly.

Good to see a Doctor can remove your Constitutional Rights at his
whim.

He's as good an NRA member as Michael Moore, who got a membership just
to be able to say he was one.

Now please stop feeding the trolls.

------------------------------
Gator: The other white meat!
------------------------------

In article , "Ed Huntress" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

If you actually read the bill, two things stand out: First, Tom's comments
are not based on anything in the bill, but must be from some neurotic
freak
at one of the over-the-top gun nutz sites. Second, the tone of the bill
and
all of its caveats makes it look like it was written by the NRA/ILA.

Then when you read the sanguine comments about the bill at the NRA site
you
realize that in fact they probably did have a decisive hand in writing the
bill. That's what lobbies do, after all.

Third, seeing John Dingell and Lamar Smith signed up as cosponsors should have
been a signal that, from a gun-rights standpoint, the bill couldn't possibly have been
all *that* bad...


Aha! Dingell apparently is the link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...R2007041902437
.html

There you go.

There *are* a few Democrats who stand up for Second Amendment rights, and
Dingell is one of them.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Sep 28, 5:45 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Gunner" wrote in message

...





On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:47:40 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

Good....I have always maintained that a psych test should be the
requirement for gun purchasing and for continued gun ownership.

If you have the right to own a gun, you also have the responsibility
to use it properly...no excuses.

If you cannot handle the responsibility, you have no right to own a
gun.

TMT..a card carrying NRA member

So if they pull your guns, then you will also have no problem with
them also removing your first amendment rights.

So, you're in favor of arming mental defectives and psychotics, eh?

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes he is.

I assume that he is pro felon and pro terrorist also...in order words
any American that has a pulse should have a gun.

There is a gray area with Cheney though...pacemakers may not count.

I refer to this affliction as the Pro Gun No Brains Syndrome (PGNBS).

TMT

In article 4t8Li.5$R%1.0@trndny06, "cncfixxer1" wrote:


A good example today is the "War". Check your Constriction and read what
is required for a war to be declared. Yet we follow lock stepped because
the whole Iraq fiasco is called a "War" when it does not meet the
Constitutional criteria to be a legal war

Both houses of Congress voted to authorize the President to carry out military
operations against Iraq. What more do you want?

If the Constitution were followed we would never had Vietnam.

What does our Constitution say about war?

Our Founders divided war into two separate powers: Congress was given the
power to declare war and the president was given the power to wage war. What
that means is that under our system of government, the president cannot
legally wage war against another nation in the absence of a declaration of
war against that nation from Congress.

This nonsense is based on a complete misunderstanding of what a declaration of
war is, and is not. It is not an authorization to wage war. It is nothing more
or less than a formal acknowledgment of a condition that _already_exists_.

Excerpts from President Roosevelt's address to the nation on 8 Dec 1941: "As
commander in chief of the Army and Navy I have directed that all measures be
taken for our defense... Hostilities exist. There is no blinking at the fact
that our people, our territory and our interests are in grave danger. ... I
ask that Congress declare that since the unprovoked and dastardly attack by
Japan on Sunday, Dec. 7, a state of war has existed between the United States
and the Japanese empire."

Recognition of an already-existing condition.

And Roosevelt was acting perfectly within his Constitutional authority, in
directing the armed forces to respond to the attack BEFORE Congress issued the
declaration of war.

You could benefit from reading this:
http://abcdunlimited.com/liberty/rants/war.html

You could also benefit from reading the Constitution -- you might learn that
individual *states* are permitted to engage in war without the consent of
Congress. (Under limited circumstances, of course.)

The idea that the consent of Congress is required to engage in any act of war
is completely without Constitutional or historical support.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.