A friend sent this to me, and I wanted to pass it along. To all my
fellow woodworkers who are veterans, THANK YOU.

Glen

Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they
do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator
Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive
impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation
of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living.
This is a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never
served think of
our military.

JOHN GLENN ON THE SENATE FLOOR Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13

Senator Howard Metzenbaum to Senator Glenn: "How can you run for
Senate when you've never held a real job?"

Senator Glenn: "I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps.
I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions & my plane was hit by
anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program.

It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was
not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash
receipts to the bank. I ask you to go with me .. as I went the other
day... to a veteran's hospital and look at those men - with their
mangled bodies - in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job! You
go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the
widows and orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and you
look those kids in
the eye and tell them that their Dads didn't hold a job. You go with
me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I
have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch those
waving flags.

You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME
that those people didn't have a job? I'll tell you, Howard Metzenbaum;
you should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that
there were some men - SOME MEN - who held REAL jobs. And they required a
dedication to a purpose - and a love of country and a dedication to duty
- that was more important
than life itself. And their self-sacrifice is what made this country
possible.

I HAVE held a job, Howard! What about you?"

For those who don't remember - During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was
an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA.

If you can read this, thank a teacher.... If you are reading it in
English thank a Veteran. Please keep this circulating.

Glen wrote in news:Flgoe.685$HM.633
@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

For those who don't remember - During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was
an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA.

I don't understand what one thing has to do with another. Are you saying
that criminals are not allowed to have attorneys? Or catholics? Or
people who disagree with you?

FWIW, I regard John Glenn as a real American success story, and have the
utmost respect for him. I also have great respect for anyone like Howard
Metzenbaum who would stand up for misrepresented and downtrodden people.
While I disagree with the tenets of communism, I can't have much feeling
for robber barons either.

With regard to your question about my English teacher, in my recollection
he was an unassuming middleaged man trying to get British English into a
bunch of Dutch kids in a high school in Wageningen, The Netherlands, the
town I grew up in. For your education, this is near where the fighting
was heaviest between May 10 and 15, 1940, when the Dutch army held the
German invaders for a while. And again near the location of Opeartion
Market Garden ("A bridge too far") starting September 17, 1944. The
Germans surrendered to the Allies in Wageningen on May 5th, 1945.

I would like to add that I fully support the troops we (I'm a naturalized
American citizen now) have in the Middle East. Nevertheless, I think our
commander-in-chief has been less than completely honest about the reasons
for going into Iraq, either through ignorance or through denial of the
real facts there. Moreover, and more importantly, whoever was responsible
for the plans for what was going to happen after the initial fighting was
over deserves to be crucified for his stupidities.

I agree with this quote:
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except
all the others that have been tried."

Winston Churchill

Obviously, in the free world, others are allowed differing opinions grin
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Han" wrote in message
...

I agree with this quote:
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except
all the others that have been tried."

Winston Churchill

He also said that the Americans can always be depended upon to 'do the right
thing' - after they have exhausted all other possibilities.

He did have a way with words, didn't he?

--
Morris

"Morris Dovey" wrote in
:


"Han" wrote in message
...

I agree with this quote:
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government
except all the others that have been tried."

Winston Churchill

He also said that the Americans can always be depended upon to 'do the
right thing' - after they have exhausted all other possibilities.

He did have a way with words, didn't he?

Yes indeed.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Glen wrote:
A friend sent this to me, and I wanted to pass it along. To all my
fellow woodworkers who are veterans, THANK YOU.

Glen

Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they
do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator
Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive
impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation
of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living.
This is a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never
served think of
our military.

JOHN GLENN ON THE SENATE FLOOR Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13

Senator Howard Metzenbaum to Senator Glenn: "How can you run for
Senate when you've never held a real job?"

Senator Glenn: "I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps.
I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions & my plane was hit by
anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program.

It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was
not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash
receipts to the bank. I ask you to go with me .. as I went the other
day... to a veteran's hospital and look at those men - with their
mangled bodies - in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job! You
go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the
widows and orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and you
look those kids in
the eye and tell them that their Dads didn't hold a job. You go with
me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I
have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch those
waving flags.

You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME
that those people didn't have a job? I'll tell you, Howard Metzenbaum;
you should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that
there were some men - SOME MEN - who held REAL jobs. And they required a
dedication to a purpose - and a love of country and a dedication to duty
- that was more important
than life itself. And their self-sacrifice is what made this country
possible.

I HAVE held a job, Howard! What about you?"

For those who don't remember - During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was
an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA.

If you can read this, thank a teacher.... If you are reading it in
English thank a Veteran. Please keep this circulating.

Sigh. Both guys had long careers, and this particular response took
place in 1974, not 2004. It did happen. It happened 30+ years ago, not
last year. It has absolutely nothing to do with Iraq and today's vets.

As a former Marine who also taught school for a very brief period, what
I'd like more than thanks is a reduction in the polarization, and
negative campaigning, in this country. Simply put: let the politicians,
including the draft dodger now using the Oval Office, tell the truth on
a daily basis.

What about John Kerry lying?? If what the Swift Boat Vets said about him is
untrue why doesn't sue them for slander and defamation of character? Is he
afraid that his Naval files will have to be opened and the real truth will
come out about him?

Another point about Iraq - Should Sadam go unchecked and everyone in the
world let him go on and continue to fill the mass graves that have been
discovered of 200,000 plus bodies? Should we have not gone to war with
Germany sooner and maybe there were not have been 6,000,000 or more Jews
killed? We had deaf ears in Rowanda like you Charlie wanted us to have in
Iraq, and look what happened/is happening there. I know we can not police
the world. There has been a steady decline in the democratic party after
the death of JFK. Everything that has happened in the last few years you
liberals have blamed on Bush. The Tsunami, Florida hurricanes which the
liberals blamed on Bush's environmental policies and on and on, and look who
is leading the democratic party now! WHAT A JOKE!!



"Charlie Self" wrote in message
oups.com...


Glen wrote:
A friend sent this to me, and I wanted to pass it along. To all my
fellow woodworkers who are veterans, THANK YOU.

Glen

Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they
do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator
Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive
impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation
of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living.
This is a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never
served think of
our military.

JOHN GLENN ON THE SENATE FLOOR Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13

Senator Howard Metzenbaum to Senator Glenn: "How can you run for
Senate when you've never held a real job?"

Senator Glenn: "I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps.
I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions & my plane was hit by
anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space
program.

It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was
not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash
receipts to the bank. I ask you to go with me .. as I went the other
day... to a veteran's hospital and look at those men - with their
mangled bodies - in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job! You
go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the
widows and orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and you
look those kids in
the eye and tell them that their Dads didn't hold a job. You go with
me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I
have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch those
waving flags.

You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME
that those people didn't have a job? I'll tell you, Howard Metzenbaum;
you should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that
there were some men - SOME MEN - who held REAL jobs. And they required a
dedication to a purpose - and a love of country and a dedication to duty
- that was more important
than life itself. And their self-sacrifice is what made this country
possible.

I HAVE held a job, Howard! What about you?"

For those who don't remember - During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was
an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA.

If you can read this, thank a teacher.... If you are reading it in
English thank a Veteran. Please keep this circulating.

Sigh. Both guys had long careers, and this particular response took
place in 1974, not 2004. It did happen. It happened 30+ years ago, not
last year. It has absolutely nothing to do with Iraq and today's vets.

As a former Marine who also taught school for a very brief period, what
I'd like more than thanks is a reduction in the polarization, and
negative campaigning, in this country. Simply put: let the politicians,
including the draft dodger now using the Oval Office, tell the truth on
a daily basis.

Glen wrote:
snip of inaccuracies

Before you pass it on you might want to get a refresher on what really
happened.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/glenn.asp

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.patinatools.com

Joe wrote:
What about John Kerry lying?? If what the Swift Boat Vets said about him is
untrue why doesn't sue them for slander and defamation of character? Is he
afraid that his Naval files will have to be opened and the real truth will
come out about him?

Another point about Iraq - Should Sadam go unchecked and everyone in the
world let him go on and continue to fill the mass graves that have been
discovered of 200,000 plus bodies? Should we have not gone to war with
Germany sooner and maybe there were not have been 6,000,000 or more Jews
killed? We had deaf ears in Rowanda like you Charlie wanted us to have in
Iraq, and look what happened/is happening there. I know we can not police
the world. There has been a steady decline in the democratic party after
the death of JFK. Everything that has happened in the last few years you
liberals have blamed on Bush. The Tsunami, Florida hurricanes which the
liberals blamed on Bush's environmental policies and on and on, and look who
is leading the democratic party now! WHAT A JOKE!!



"Charlie Self" wrote in message
oups.com...


Glen wrote:
A friend sent this to me, and I wanted to pass it along. To all my
fellow woodworkers who are veterans, THANK YOU.

Glen

Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they
do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator
Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive
impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation
of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living.
This is a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never
served think of
our military.

JOHN GLENN ON THE SENATE FLOOR Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13

Senator Howard Metzenbaum to Senator Glenn: "How can you run for
Senate when you've never held a real job?"

Senator Glenn: "I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps.
I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions & my plane was hit by
anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space
program.

It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was
not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash
receipts to the bank. I ask you to go with me .. as I went the other
day... to a veteran's hospital and look at those men - with their
mangled bodies - in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job! You
go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the
widows and orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and you
look those kids in
the eye and tell them that their Dads didn't hold a job. You go with
me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I
have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch those
waving flags.

You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME
that those people didn't have a job? I'll tell you, Howard Metzenbaum;
you should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that
there were some men - SOME MEN - who held REAL jobs. And they required a
dedication to a purpose - and a love of country and a dedication to duty
- that was more important
than life itself. And their self-sacrifice is what made this country
possible.

I HAVE held a job, Howard! What about you?"

For those who don't remember - During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was
an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA.

If you can read this, thank a teacher.... If you are reading it in
English thank a Veteran. Please keep this circulating.

Sigh. Both guys had long careers, and this particular response took
place in 1974, not 2004. It did happen. It happened 30+ years ago, not
last year. It has absolutely nothing to do with Iraq and today's vets.

As a former Marine who also taught school for a very brief period, what
I'd like more than thanks is a reduction in the polarization, and
negative campaigning, in this country. Simply put: let the politicians,
including the draft dodger now using the Oval Office, tell the truth on
a daily basis.

Joe, ol' buddy, you have a real problem. Yeah, I'm a liberal, and
reasonably proud of it. If I were a conservative of the stripe you seem
to admire, I'd shoot myself. As far as Kerry lying, WTF does that have
to do with what we were writing about? And what am I blaming Bush for,
olther than starting a war we don't need to be in for specious reasons?
It is quite possible that if we'd cointained our enthusiasm and
continued pacifying Afghanistan, that problem would be over, and
Saddass Insane would have imploded.

I don't know Bush's true reasons for getting involved in Iraq, nor do
you, but I'm betting that have diddly**** to do with his mass
murdering, and comparing that person with Hitler is inane. The scale is
totally different. Also, you know zip about history if you think the
U.S. was in any position to influence world reactions to Hitler before
WWII.

Get a history book. Get over thinking in political stereotypes. Get
over thinking that criticism of Bush in one area is criticism of Bush
for all the world's problems. He's not responsible for all of them, nor
is he helping to fix any of them.

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
oups.com...

As a former Marine who also taught school for a very brief period, what
I'd like more than thanks is a reduction in the polarization, and
negative campaigning, in this country. Simply put: let the politicians,
including the draft dodger now using the Oval Office, tell the truth on
a daily basis.

Amen (from a former Army paratrooper who also did a bit of teaching). I'd
also like to see us move on from "being right" to "doing right".

--
Morris

This same subject line was expressed in Rec. Boats, a real
disfunctional crowd, on Memorial Day and it ignited a huge flamefest
which is probably still going. It got Capt. Neal, a vet, in a
sputtering rage. Memorial Day is for honoring dead servicemen of all
wars. Veterans Day is for honoring (and thanking) all veterans of the
armed forces. To mix the two up is a very bad thing in Capt. Neal's
mind. Sam

Charlie
I was in the 101st in Nam. I got in my right thigh and the cheek of my ass
with shrapnel. I do not like to discuss or brag about it. I want to forget
it. Period! That being said Bush being right or wrong and I feel he was
right and I want to hit them all over there, not here, and I support our
President and troops 1000 percent. By the way I had a minor in History.
Also, Thank you for your service too Charlie!!


"Charlie Self" wrote in message
oups.com...


Joe wrote:
What about John Kerry lying?? If what the Swift Boat Vets said about him
is
untrue why doesn't sue them for slander and defamation of character? Is
he
afraid that his Naval files will have to be opened and the real truth
will
come out about him?

Another point about Iraq - Should Sadam go unchecked and everyone in the
world let him go on and continue to fill the mass graves that have been
discovered of 200,000 plus bodies? Should we have not gone to war with
Germany sooner and maybe there were not have been 6,000,000 or more Jews
killed? We had deaf ears in Rowanda like you Charlie wanted us to have
in
Iraq, and look what happened/is happening there. I know we can not
police
the world. There has been a steady decline in the democratic party
after
the death of JFK. Everything that has happened in the last few years
you
liberals have blamed on Bush. The Tsunami, Florida hurricanes which the
liberals blamed on Bush's environmental policies and on and on, and look
who
is leading the democratic party now! WHAT A JOKE!!



"Charlie Self" wrote in message
oups.com...


Glen wrote:
A friend sent this to me, and I wanted to pass it along. To all my
fellow woodworkers who are veterans, THANK YOU.

Glen

Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what
they
do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and
Senator
Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty
impressive
impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's
explanation
of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a
living.
This is a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never
served think of
our military.

JOHN GLENN ON THE SENATE FLOOR Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13

Senator Howard Metzenbaum to Senator Glenn: "How can you run for
Senate when you've never held a real job?"

Senator Glenn: "I served 23 years in the United States Marine
Corps.
I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions & my plane was hit by
anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space
program.

It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It
was
not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash
receipts to the bank. I ask you to go with me .. as I went the other
day... to a veteran's hospital and look at those men - with their
mangled bodies - in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job!
You
go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to
the
widows and orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and
you
look those kids in
the eye and tell them that their Dads didn't hold a job. You go
with
me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery,
where I
have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch
those
waving flags.

You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME
that those people didn't have a job? I'll tell you, Howard
Metzenbaum;
you should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that
there were some men - SOME MEN - who held REAL jobs. And they
required a
dedication to a purpose - and a love of country and a dedication to
duty
- that was more important
than life itself. And their self-sacrifice is what made this
country
possible.

I HAVE held a job, Howard! What about you?"

For those who don't remember - During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum
was
an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA.

If you can read this, thank a teacher.... If you are reading it
in
English thank a Veteran. Please keep this circulating.

Sigh. Both guys had long careers, and this particular response took
place in 1974, not 2004. It did happen. It happened 30+ years ago, not
last year. It has absolutely nothing to do with Iraq and today's vets.

As a former Marine who also taught school for a very brief period,
what
I'd like more than thanks is a reduction in the polarization, and
negative campaigning, in this country. Simply put: let the
politicians,
including the draft dodger now using the Oval Office, tell the truth
on
a daily basis.

Joe, ol' buddy, you have a real problem. Yeah, I'm a liberal, and
reasonably proud of it. If I were a conservative of the stripe you seem
to admire, I'd shoot myself. As far as Kerry lying, WTF does that have
to do with what we were writing about? And what am I blaming Bush for,
olther than starting a war we don't need to be in for specious reasons?
It is quite possible that if we'd cointained our enthusiasm and
continued pacifying Afghanistan, that problem would be over, and
Saddass Insane would have imploded.

I don't know Bush's true reasons for getting involved in Iraq, nor do
you, but I'm betting that have diddly**** to do with his mass
murdering, and comparing that person with Hitler is inane. The scale is
totally different. Also, you know zip about history if you think the
U.S. was in any position to influence world reactions to Hitler before
WWII.

Get a history book. Get over thinking in political stereotypes. Get
over thinking that criticism of Bush in one area is criticism of Bush
for all the world's problems. He's not responsible for all of them, nor
is he helping to fix any of them.

On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 11:35:01 GMT, Glen wrote:

A friend sent this to me, and I wanted to pass it along. To all my
fellow woodworkers who are veterans, THANK YOU.

Memorial Day, formerly known as Decoration Day, was instituted to
honor the fallen combatants in The War Between The States.

Its meaning grew to encompass the honoring of dead Americans from all
wars.

There is another day which honors both the living and the dead who
served their country - Veteran's Day, formerly known as Armistice Day.

It began as an honoring of the dead from The War To End All Wars,
which ironically was presumed to have ended at the eleventh hour, of
the eleventh day, of the eleventh month - of 1918.

Senator Metzenbaum is now 88 years old and has not served in the
Senate since 1995.

History is an interesting discipline - one that I would suggest that
you study more diligently.




Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)

On 4 Jun 2005 14:12:41 -0700, "Charlie Self" wrote:



.... snip

As a former Marine who also taught school for a very brief period, what
I'd like more than thanks is a reduction in the polarization, and
negative campaigning, in this country. Simply put: let the politicians,
including the draft dodger now using the Oval Office, tell the truth on
a daily basis.

... and your comment above, particularly about the sitting president is
not polarizing, ... how?




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+