[RoyJ]

I have a robotic vehicle control box that I farmed out to the EE boys.
They designed it with some factory 'H' gate integrated circuits, the
hole spacing is a weird as it can be. (IIRC its .150" C to C, two rows)
So now it is getting kicked back to me to deal with a PC board. I'm
wondering about just milling the foil on one side of a PC, drill the
holes? the circuit is no big deal, big need is to mount the IC on a
standard PC board for reliability. Board size is around 3"x4" I have 2
Haas mills (VF-0 and TM-1), Solidworks, and Gibscam.

[RoyJ]

Make that .067"/.134"
http://www.national.com/packaging/mkt/ta11b.pdf

Of course what I REALLY want is one of the Protoboard places that will
do this cheaply for quantity 6!!! Trying for under a couple hundred for
6 boards.

RoyJ wrote:
I have a robotic vehicle control box that I farmed out to the EE boys.
They designed it with some factory 'H' gate integrated circuits, the
hole spacing is a weird as it can be. (IIRC its .150" C to C, two rows)
So now it is getting kicked back to me to deal with a PC board. I'm
wondering about just milling the foil on one side of a PC, drill the
holes? the circuit is no big deal, big need is to mount the IC on a
standard PC board for reliability. Board size is around 3"x4" I have 2
Haas mills (VF-0 and TM-1), Solidworks, and Gibscam.

[Ecnerwal]

In article ,
RoyJ wrote:

I have a robotic vehicle control box that I farmed out to the EE boys.
They designed it with some factory 'H' gate integrated circuits, the
hole spacing is a weird as it can be. (IIRC its .150" C to C, two rows)
So now it is getting kicked back to me to deal with a PC board. I'm
wondering about just milling the foil on one side of a PC, drill the
holes? the circuit is no big deal, big need is to mount the IC on a
standard PC board for reliability. Board size is around 3"x4" I have 2
Haas mills (VF-0 and TM-1), Solidworks, and Gibscam.

If you have the right toys, and it sounds like you do, that plan could
work. Be certain that the board design is such that it allows for
cutting (size of spaces and traces compatible with cutters you have).
However, if it's for work and involves charging for your time (to the
project, company, whatever) you might be better off sending it out - you
can get a better board (with soldermask and silkscreen) pretty cheap
from any of several board houses in small quantities. Does not take much
of your time to make that a paying proposition if you or your machines
cost much to run (.vs. cost of sitting around twiddling thumbs, or .vs.
doing "real work" better suited...)

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

[Winston]

RoyJ wrote:
I have a robotic vehicle control box that I farmed out to the EE boys.
They designed it with some factory 'H' gate integrated circuits, the
hole spacing is a weird as it can be. (IIRC its .150" C to C, two rows)
So now it is getting kicked back to me to deal with a PC board. I'm
wondering about just milling the foil on one side of a PC, drill the
holes? the circuit is no big deal, big need is to mount the IC on a
standard PC board for reliability. Board size is around 3"x4" I have 2
Haas mills (VF-0 and TM-1), Solidworks, and Gibscam.

That is a deep time and money hole that only looks like a puddle.

The best answer is to hand over the schematic and the parts to a real
PCB designer and have the board made. Much better quality and when they
toast the first board, you can hand them one of the spares muy pronto.

Second best answer is to lay out the board using a combo house like:
http://www.pad2pad.com/

Using your valuable machining skills to make a $30.00 PCB is a *very
distant* third in efficiency terms.

--Winston

[RoyJ]

This is an academic environment where certain equipment is available,
time is cheap, no budget for outside spending. It was a push to get the
$200 for the board houses. Problem seems to be that none of the on-line
board house software packages like the odd spacing.

Ecnerwal wrote:
In article ,
RoyJ wrote:

I have a robotic vehicle control box that I farmed out to the EE boys.
They designed it with some factory 'H' gate integrated circuits, the
hole spacing is a weird as it can be. (IIRC its .150" C to C, two rows)
So now it is getting kicked back to me to deal with a PC board. I'm
wondering about just milling the foil on one side of a PC, drill the
holes? the circuit is no big deal, big need is to mount the IC on a
standard PC board for reliability. Board size is around 3"x4" I have 2
Haas mills (VF-0 and TM-1), Solidworks, and Gibscam.

If you have the right toys, and it sounds like you do, that plan could
work. Be certain that the board design is such that it allows for
cutting (size of spaces and traces compatible with cutters you have).
However, if it's for work and involves charging for your time (to the
project, company, whatever) you might be better off sending it out - you
can get a better board (with soldermask and silkscreen) pretty cheap
from any of several board houses in small quantities. Does not take much
of your time to make that a paying proposition if you or your machines
cost much to run (.vs. cost of sitting around twiddling thumbs, or .vs.
doing "real work" better suited...)

[Jerry Foster]

"RoyJ" wrote in message
...
I have a robotic vehicle control box that I farmed out to the EE boys.
They designed it with some factory 'H' gate integrated circuits, the
hole spacing is a weird as it can be. (IIRC its .150" C to C, two rows)
So now it is getting kicked back to me to deal with a PC board. I'm
wondering about just milling the foil on one side of a PC, drill the
holes? the circuit is no big deal, big need is to mount the IC on a
standard PC board for reliability. Board size is around 3"x4" I have 2
Haas mills (VF-0 and TM-1), Solidworks, and Gibscam.

I have in the past used ExpressPCB and was satisfied with their work.
They'll give you three 2.5" x 3.8" double sided boards, two day turnaround
for $51 plus shipping.

http://www.expresspcb.com/

Disclaimer: No connection, just a satisfied customer.

Jerry

[Ecnerwal]

In article ,
RoyJ wrote:

Make that .067"/.134"
http://www.national.com/packaging/mkt/ta11b.pdf

Of course what I REALLY want is one of the Protoboard places that will
do this cheaply for quantity 6!!! Trying for under a couple hundred for
6 boards.

RoyJ wrote:
I have a robotic vehicle control box that I farmed out to the EE boys.
They designed it with some factory 'H' gate integrated circuits, the
hole spacing is a weird as it can be. (IIRC its .150" C to C, two rows)
So now it is getting kicked back to me to deal with a PC board. I'm
wondering about just milling the foil on one side of a PC, drill the
holes? the circuit is no big deal, big need is to mount the IC on a
standard PC board for reliability. Board size is around 3"x4" I have 2
Haas mills (VF-0 and TM-1), Solidworks, and Gibscam.

12 square inches. 6 boards. With barely any looking at all:

www.PCBExpress.com

2 layer, no soldermask, no silkscreen 6 boards $123 +shipping

2 layer, soldermask, silkscreen 6 boards $258 +shipping

Get the size down to 9 square inches and save some money, or go as big
as 19 for the same money.

--------------

www.expresspcb.com does slightly smaller boards at $59.60 for 3
delivered- size 2.5"x3.8" (exactly) no soldermask or silkscreen.

For soldermask and silkscreen, the protopro service will do batches of 4
at $179 +ship - you might make each delivered board be two boards you
cut apart and get 8, if you can get the size down to 10.5 sq inches (max
of 21 in this price/production class).

There are others, depending on where you want to go and how fast you
want to ship. www.olimex.com is in Bulgaria, for instance - and will
give you as many of your little boards as fit in a 12.6x7.8 inch
rectangle (cut apart by them), with soldermask and silkscreen, for $132
(plus shipping). I think you can get at least 6 3x4 boards out of that
panel - 8 if you shrink the 4 inch dimension just a touch.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

[DoN. Nichols]

According to Ecnerwal :
In article ,
RoyJ wrote:

I have a robotic vehicle control box that I farmed out to the EE boys.
They designed it with some factory 'H' gate integrated circuits, the
hole spacing is a weird as it can be. (IIRC its .150" C to C, two rows)
So now it is getting kicked back to me to deal with a PC board. I'm
wondering about just milling the foil on one side of a PC, drill the
holes? the circuit is no big deal, big need is to mount the IC on a
standard PC board for reliability. Board size is around 3"x4" I have 2
Haas mills (VF-0 and TM-1), Solidworks, and Gibscam.

If you have the right toys, and it sounds like you do, that plan could
work. Be certain that the board design is such that it allows for
cutting (size of spaces and traces compatible with cutters you have).

Be warned that you *will* need (tiny) solid carbide end mills,
and that the swarf will be *very* abrasive to your machine's ways, so
better fix a shop vac to control the waste.

HSS *will* go dull so quickly you won't believe it with any form
of fiberglass epoxy printed circuit board material.

Good luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:21:06 -0500, the renowned RoyJ
wrote:

This is an academic environment where certain equipment is available,
time is cheap, no budget for outside spending. It was a push to get the
$200 for the board houses. Problem seems to be that none of the on-line
board house software packages like the odd spacing.

What about Eagle? It has a free version that should do the trick, and
will generate standard Gerbers that you can shop around. I don't use
it, but a lot of people do:

http://www.cadsoftusa.com/freeware.htm


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

[[email protected]]

Be warned that you *will* need (tiny) solid carbide end mills,
and that the swarf will be *very* abrasive to your machine's ways, so
better fix a shop vac to control the waste.

HSS *will* go dull so quickly you won't believe it with any form
of fiberglass epoxy printed circuit board material.

Good luck,
DoN.

--

Don is correct about the drill bits. Sometimes resharpened, but
rejected bits are available on EBAY. Also, be aware, your equipment
will never be able to turn the drill bits fast enough and they will
probably break on you. They need to turn 20,000 rpm of faster.

Also, good luck!

Paul

[Martin H. Eastburn]

I had a special machine to do that with - a CNC. The tough part
is the 10 and 7 and 5 mil 2 edge endmills and stuff like that.
Tiny stuff for between IC pads and making transmission lines right.
If you have a simple one and think you can keep the board down FLAT
then try. Side load is a killer.

Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


RoyJ wrote:
I have a robotic vehicle control box that I farmed out to the EE boys.
They designed it with some factory 'H' gate integrated circuits, the
hole spacing is a weird as it can be. (IIRC its .150" C to C, two rows)
So now it is getting kicked back to me to deal with a PC board. I'm
wondering about just milling the foil on one side of a PC, drill the
holes? the circuit is no big deal, big need is to mount the IC on a
standard PC board for reliability. Board size is around 3"x4" I have 2
Haas mills (VF-0 and TM-1), Solidworks, and Gibscam.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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[Jon Elson]

RoyJ wrote:
Make that .067"/.134"
http://www.national.com/packaging/mkt/ta11b.pdf

Of course what I REALLY want is one of the Protoboard places that will
do this cheaply for quantity 6!!! Trying for under a couple hundred for
6 boards.
Try E-teknet, in Arizona. They have a proto deal right now that
is $24 each for 4 boards. You could maybe put two patterns on
the board and get 8 units. You'd just have to cut them apart.

See http://www.e-teknet.com/

Jon

[Mark F]

DoN. Nichols wrote:
According to Ecnerwal :
In article ,
RoyJ wrote:

I have a robotic vehicle control box that I farmed out to the EE boys.
They designed it with some factory 'H' gate integrated circuits, the
hole spacing is a weird as it can be. (IIRC its .150" C to C, two rows)
So now it is getting kicked back to me to deal with a PC board. I'm
wondering about just milling the foil on one side of a PC, drill the
holes? the circuit is no big deal, big need is to mount the IC on a
standard PC board for reliability. Board size is around 3"x4" I have 2
Haas mills (VF-0 and TM-1), Solidworks, and Gibscam.
If you have the right toys, and it sounds like you do, that plan could
work. Be certain that the board design is such that it allows for
cutting (size of spaces and traces compatible with cutters you have).

Be warned that you *will* need (tiny) solid carbide end mills,
and that the swarf will be *very* abrasive to your machine's ways, so
better fix a shop vac to control the waste.

HSS *will* go dull so quickly you won't believe it with any form
of fiberglass epoxy printed circuit board material.

Good luck,
DoN.

And the green "stuff" gets into your skin like a hair shirt.
(The mill I bought was used for PCB work, and I didn't tumble
until too late, to the fact that the green stuff was G10 itching
powder..., and not some type of cooland-borne algae..) /mark

[Jim Wilkins]

On Sep 19, 10:21 pm, RoyJ wrote:
This is an academic environment where certain equipment is available,
time is cheap, no budget for outside spending. It was a push to get the
$200 for the board houses. Problem seems to be that none of the on-line
board house software packages like the odd spacing.

50 mil spacing isn't odd at all unless the design grid is set to 100.

If you can change the grid, place your parts at 100, then change to 50
(or 25) for routing.

If not and you can top-solder the H Bridge pins, you could make the
pads oversize or use Copper to place fake pads where you want the off-
grid holes, then drill them manually.

jw

[RoyJ]

Spacing is .067" on odd even basis.

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Sep 19, 10:21 pm, RoyJ wrote:
This is an academic environment where certain equipment is available,
time is cheap, no budget for outside spending. It was a push to get the
$200 for the board houses. Problem seems to be that none of the on-line
board house software packages like the odd spacing.

50 mil spacing isn't odd at all unless the design grid is set to 100.

If you can change the grid, place your parts at 100, then change to 50
(or 25) for routing.

If not and you can top-solder the H Bridge pins, you could make the
pads oversize or use Copper to place fake pads where you want the off-
grid holes, then drill them manually.

jw

[Jim Wilkins]

On Sep 20, 4:13 pm, RoyJ wrote:
Spacing is .067" on odd even basis.

What is the manufacturer and part number? Sometimes they have
dimensions for the decal in the data sheet.

jw

[RoyJ]

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Sep 20, 4:13 pm, RoyJ wrote:
Spacing is .067" on odd even basis.

What is the manufacturer and part number? Sometimes they have
dimensions for the decal in the data sheet.

Full spec on the package here
http://www.national.com/packaging/mkt/ta11b.pdf

[RoyJ]

The problem got solved CORRECTLY this morning. National updated their IC
library files this week, disseminated them to the PC board houses,
everything works correctly with no work arounds. Great, I wasn't looking
forward to dealing with the high spindle speeds, cleanup of PC board
dust and fuzz, fixtures, and all that.

RoyJ wrote:
I have a robotic vehicle control box that I farmed out to the EE boys.
They designed it with some factory 'H' gate integrated circuits, the
hole spacing is a weird as it can be. (IIRC its .150" C to C, two rows)
So now it is getting kicked back to me to deal with a PC board. I'm
wondering about just milling the foil on one side of a PC, drill the
holes? the circuit is no big deal, big need is to mount the IC on a
standard PC board for reliability. Board size is around 3"x4" I have 2
Haas mills (VF-0 and TM-1), Solidworks, and Gibscam.