http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cf7_1186167135

OK, WTF is going on here? Anybody in NYC care to give us any more info
on this?

Bizarre submersible found floating off New York City...
New York authorities were questioning three men found in a bizarre
submersible vessel floating just off Manhattan on Friday, according to
local reports.

The men were discovered early Friday near the cruise terminal in
Brooklyn where the massive ocean liner The Queen Mary II is moored,
ABC television reported on its website.

When asked about the incident, a police spokeswoman declined to
confirm the report or provide any further information, saying only
that officers were at the scene.

What the three men were doing in the vessel -- which appeared to be
spherical with a circular hatch on top -- was not immediately clear.

Metal working content: it looks like it's made from metal.
Dave

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3444500
wood with metal fittings
Karl

On Aug 3, 8:02 pm, dav1936531 wrote:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cf7_1186167135

OK, WTF is going on here? Anybody in NYC care to give us any more info
on this?

Bizarre submersible found floating off New York City...
New York authorities were questioning three men found in a bizarre
submersible vessel floating just off Manhattan on Friday, according to
local reports.

The men were discovered early Friday near the cruise terminal in
Brooklyn where the massive ocean liner The Queen Mary II is moored,
ABC television reported on its website.

When asked about the incident, a police spokeswoman declined to
confirm the report or provide any further information, saying only
that officers were at the scene.

What the three men were doing in the vessel -- which appeared to be
spherical with a circular hatch on top -- was not immediately clear.

Metal working content: it looks like it's made from metal.
Dave

"dav1936531" wrote in message
...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cf7_1186167135

OK, WTF is going on here? Anybody in NYC care to give us any more info
on this?

Bizarre submersible found floating off New York City...

It was a replica of a revolutionary war wooden semi-submersible. So
floating around in a public navigable waterway in what is little more than an
oddly-shaped wooden rowboat is now somehow a crime? The terrorists have won!
We now live in a country where the slightest odd behavior is a crime.

How long till it is considered "odd" to have a machine shop in your
basement? Who knows what you could be building down there.

Vaughn

Who's the idiot who labeled the device 'bizarre'?
JR
Dweller in the cellar
more sensible statement:
""A makeshift submarine discovered at about 10:30 this morning by an
NYPD Intelligence detective onboard the Queen Mary 2 in New York Harbor
is the creative craft of three adventuresome individuals," NYPD
Commissioner Raymond Kelly announced in an afternoon press release. "It
does not pose any terrorist threat."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3444500

dav1936531 wrote:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cf7_1186167135

OK, WTF is going on here? Anybody in NYC care to give us any more info
on this?

Bizarre submersible found floating off New York City...
New York authorities were questioning three men found in a bizarre
submersible vessel floating just off Manhattan on Friday, according to
local reports.

The men were discovered early Friday near the cruise terminal in
Brooklyn where the massive ocean liner The Queen Mary II is moored,
ABC television reported on its website.

When asked about the incident, a police spokeswoman declined to
confirm the report or provide any further information, saying only
that officers were at the scene.

What the three men were doing in the vessel -- which appeared to be
spherical with a circular hatch on top -- was not immediately clear.

Metal working content: it looks like it's made from metal.
Dave


--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

"Vaughn Simon" wrote:

It was a replica of a revolutionary war wooden semi-submersible. So
floating around in a public navigable waterway in what is little more than an
oddly-shaped wooden rowboat is now somehow a crime? The terrorists have won!
We now live in a country where the slightest odd behavior is a crime.

The QMII has a legally protected security zone? I wonder what mine is and
if the use of deadly force is allowed.

This is on topic since there was metal in the gents project.

Wes

On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 09:39:58 -0500, Nick Hull wrote:

In article
,
"Vaughn Simon" wrote:

Bizarre submersible found floating off New York City...

It was a replica of a revolutionary war wooden semi-submersible. So
floating around in a public navigable waterway in what is little more than an
oddly-shaped wooden rowboat is now somehow a crime? The terrorists have won!
We now live in a country where the slightest odd behavior is a crime.


If a replica of the "Turtle" is terrorist then a replica of a
flintlock probably is too


I believe that muzzle loading weapons are excepted from the federal
gun control laws. They classify a Walther .22 cal pistol as an
assault weapon but you can own a percussion, 44 cal muzzle loader. I
wonder what Abe Lincoln would think about that.





Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

In article
,
"Vaughn Simon" wrote:

Bizarre submersible found floating off New York City...

It was a replica of a revolutionary war wooden semi-submersible. So
floating around in a public navigable waterway in what is little more than an
oddly-shaped wooden rowboat is now somehow a crime? The terrorists have won!
We now live in a country where the slightest odd behavior is a crime.


If a replica of the "Turtle" is terrorist then a replica of a
flintlock probably is too

Vaughn Simon wrote:

"dav1936531" wrote in message
...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cf7_1186167135

OK, WTF is going on here? Anybody in NYC care to give us any more info
on this?

Bizarre submersible found floating off New York City...

It was a replica of a revolutionary war wooden semi-submersible. So
floating around in a public navigable waterway in what is little more than an
oddly-shaped wooden rowboat is now somehow a crime? The terrorists have won!
We now live in a country where the slightest odd behavior is a crime.

How long till it is considered "odd" to have a machine shop in your
basement? Who knows what you could be building down there.


It would be VERY odd for me. None of the six building on my property
even has a basment.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 09:39:58 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Nick
Hull quickly quoth:

In article
,
"Vaughn Simon" wrote:

Bizarre submersible found floating off New York City...

It was a replica of a revolutionary war wooden semi-submersible. So
floating around in a public navigable waterway in what is little more than an
oddly-shaped wooden rowboat is now somehow a crime? The terrorists have won!
We now live in a country where the slightest odd behavior is a crime.

If a replica of the "Turtle" is terrorist then a replica of a
flintlock probably is too

Did you misread him? He was saying that the terrorists (behind 9/11,
etc.) had won because our country is being locked down in paranoia.
Our fearful leaders don't seem to realize that they can't ever
"protect us" from terrorists, period. We're wasting billions over
nothing and losing our freedoms in the process.

Tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of people no longer fly due to the
assinine restrictions and invasive processes now involved in merely
boarding a plane. Feh!

--
"Excess regulation and government spending destroy jobs and increase
unemployment. Every regulator we fire results in the creation of over
150 new jobs, enough to hire the ex-regulator, the unemployed, and
the able-bodied poor." -Michael Badnarik

dav1936531 wrote:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cf7_1186167135

OK, WTF is going on here? Anybody in NYC care to give us any more info
on this?

-snip-

Metal working content: it looks like it's made from metal.
Dave



saw a video about it on

http://www.newsday.com:80/news/local...gion-apnewyork

shows it being hauled away on a nyc police flat bed truck.

that's a DAMN shame. when i was a kid looking at encyclopedia britannica
and thought "The Turtle" was SO cool! even as a kid i wished i could've
built one. now this guy DOES build and floated one and he's hauled off by
the cops. i mean, i can see how they'd think it was a homemade terrorist
bomb device (like they thought the LED Ignignokt lights they found in
boston) but that's a damn shame they had to haul the guy in and confiscate
his sub! hope they didn't (and won't) damage it and they give it back to
him and he won't face any charges. that's too cool that he built one and
floated it!

b.w.

(somebody said the terrorists won. sucks.)

maybe the NYC cops will be sensible, but more likely today someone will
invoke the patriot act and it will be illegal to even talk about it

I agree with larry J - the terrorists have won, it's time to start our own
insurgency to take back the country - we ought to be able to argue about
politics without degenerating into name calling (you know, the commie pinko
liberal nattering nabob versus the captialist imperialst running dog pig),
we ought to be able to carry a pair of cuticle clippers onto an airplane, we
ought to be smart enough to know that live is always fatal, and nothing will
ever be risk free


"William Wixon" wrote in message
...



dav1936531 wrote:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cf7_1186167135

OK, WTF is going on here? Anybody in NYC care to give us any more info
on this?

-snip-

Metal working content: it looks like it's made from metal.
Dave



saw a video about it on

http://www.newsday.com:80/news/local...gion-apnewyork

shows it being hauled away on a nyc police flat bed truck.

that's a DAMN shame. when i was a kid looking at encyclopedia britannica
and thought "The Turtle" was SO cool! even as a kid i wished i could've
built one. now this guy DOES build and floated one and he's hauled off by
the cops. i mean, i can see how they'd think it was a homemade terrorist
bomb device (like they thought the LED Ignignokt lights they found in
boston) but that's a damn shame they had to haul the guy in and confiscate
his sub! hope they didn't (and won't) damage it and they give it back to
him and he won't face any charges. that's too cool that he built one and
floated it!

b.w.

(somebody said the terrorists won. sucks.)









--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Vaughn Simon" wrote in message
...

"dav1936531" wrote in message
...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cf7_1186167135

OK, WTF is going on here? Anybody in NYC care to give us any more info
on this?

Bizarre submersible found floating off New York City...

It was a replica of a revolutionary war wooden semi-submersible. So
floating around in a public navigable waterway in what is little more than
an oddly-shaped wooden rowboat is now somehow a crime? The terrorists
have won! We now live in a country where the slightest odd behavior is a
crime.

My first thought as well, but towing what looks like a floating bomb within
200 feet of a potential target is just retarded. In this case, I don't think
the police overreacted, and I think this "artist" probably welcomed the
publicity.

William Noble wrote:
maybe the NYC cops will be sensible, but more likely today someone will
invoke the patriot act and it will be illegal to even talk about it

I agree with larry J - the terrorists have won, it's time to start our own
insurgency to take back the country - we ought to be able to argue about
politics without degenerating into name calling (you know, the commie pinko
liberal nattering nabob versus the captialist imperialst running dog pig),
we ought to be able to carry a pair of cuticle clippers onto an airplane, we
ought to be smart enough to know that live is always fatal, and nothing will
ever be risk free


Nail clippers!!

Hell, I'd be pretty happy to know that at least 1/3 of the folks
aboard a flight I was on were armed.

I'd rather take my chances on a gunfight occurring, than a takeover.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

On Aug 4, 8:56 pm, Trevor Jones wrote:
William Noble wrote:
maybe the NYC cops will be sensible, but more likely today someone will
invoke the patriot act and it will be illegal to even talk about it

I agree with larry J - the terrorists have won, it's time to start our own
insurgency to take back the country - we ought to be able to argue about
politics without degenerating into name calling (you know, the commie pinko
liberal nattering nabob versus the captialist imperialst running dog pig),
we ought to be able to carry a pair of cuticle clippers onto an airplane, we
ought to be smart enough to know that live is always fatal, and nothing will
ever be risk free

Nail clippers!!

Hell, I'd be pretty happy to know that at least 1/3 of the folks
aboard a flight I was on were armed.

I'd rather take my chances on a gunfight occurring, than a takeover.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Sounds like you have never been in a firefight.

Bullets rarely go where they are supposed to...even with pro shooters.

In an airplane full of Sunday shooters the results would be
disasterous.

TMT

On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 23:29:15 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Aug 4, 8:56 pm, Trevor Jones wrote:
William Noble wrote:
maybe the NYC cops will be sensible, but more likely today someone will
invoke the patriot act and it will be illegal to even talk about it

I agree with larry J - the terrorists have won, it's time to start our own
insurgency to take back the country - we ought to be able to argue about
politics without degenerating into name calling (you know, the commie pinko
liberal nattering nabob versus the captialist imperialst running dog pig),
we ought to be able to carry a pair of cuticle clippers onto an airplane, we
ought to be smart enough to know that live is always fatal, and nothing will
ever be risk free

Nail clippers!!

Hell, I'd be pretty happy to know that at least 1/3 of the folks
aboard a flight I was on were armed.

I'd rather take my chances on a gunfight occurring, than a takeover.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Sounds like you have never been in a firefight.

Bullets rarely go where they are supposed to...even with pro shooters.

In an airplane full of Sunday shooters the results would be
disasterous.

TMT

Really? Cites?

Gunner

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 07:14:30 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Nick
Hull quickly quoth:

In article
.com,
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

Hell, I'd be pretty happy to know that at least 1/3 of the folks
aboard a flight I was on were armed.

I'd rather take my chances on a gunfight occurring, than a takeover.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Sounds like you have never been in a firefight.

Bullets rarely go where they are supposed to...even with pro shooters.

In an airplane full of Sunday shooters the results would be
disasterous.

Sky marshalls have NEVER stopped a skyjacking. Armed pilots
have. We know what it is like when the passengers are disarmed,
what could be worse?

Unarmed passengers and ballsy flight attendants who now have God
complexes and can put a person in prison for smiling at them wrong.
THAT's what's worse, and it happening now.

Our fearful leaders are reacting just as the terrorists wanted.
They're concentrating on closing one hole while leaving dozens of
others wide open. If terrorists have any brains at all, they'd never
do another plane hijacking. It's much better covered now. They'll
choose one of the dozens of other methods for disrupting our life.
We're outspending the terrorists by something like a million to one.
For every buck they spend, we're wasting $1,000,000.

What has it netted us? _Maybe_ 5% safer airports? Feh!

--
"Excess regulation and government spending destroy jobs and increase
unemployment. Every regulator we fire results in the creation of over
150 new jobs, enough to hire the ex-regulator, the unemployed, and
the able-bodied poor." -Michael Badnarik

In article
. com,
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

Hell, I'd be pretty happy to know that at least 1/3 of the folks
aboard a flight I was on were armed.

I'd rather take my chances on a gunfight occurring, than a takeover.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Sounds like you have never been in a firefight.

Bullets rarely go where they are supposed to...even with pro shooters.

In an airplane full of Sunday shooters the results would be
disasterous.

Sky marshalls have NEVER stopped a skyjacking. Armed pilots
have. We know what it is like when the passengers are disarmed,
what could be worse?
Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 01:38:00 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 23:29:15 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Aug 4, 8:56 pm, Trevor Jones wrote:
William Noble wrote:
maybe the NYC cops will be sensible, but more likely today someone will
invoke the patriot act and it will be illegal to even talk about it

I agree with larry J - the terrorists have won, it's time to start our own
insurgency to take back the country - we ought to be able to argue about
politics without degenerating into name calling (you know, the commie pinko
liberal nattering nabob versus the captialist imperialst running dog pig),
we ought to be able to carry a pair of cuticle clippers onto an airplane, we
ought to be smart enough to know that live is always fatal, and nothing will
ever be risk free

Nail clippers!!

Hell, I'd be pretty happy to know that at least 1/3 of the folks
aboard a flight I was on were armed.

I'd rather take my chances on a gunfight occurring, than a takeover.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Sounds like you have never been in a firefight.

Bullets rarely go where they are supposed to...even with pro shooters.

In an airplane full of Sunday shooters the results would be
disasterous.

TMT

Really? Cites?

It would be difficult to imagine a worse outcome then the 9/11 flight.
If a Sunday shooter shoots me I MAY survive, If we fly into the twin
towers I WON'T survive. Always go with odds, boys.







Gunner

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 05:06:36 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

We're outspending the terrorists by something like a million to one.
For every buck they spend, we're wasting $1,000,000.

Asymetrical warfare is like that. Always has been, always will be.

Minnows swimming in the schools.

Read some Mao, and some Sun Tzu...and some von Clauswitz.

Gunner

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Aug 4, 8:56 pm, Trevor Jones wrote:

William Noble wrote:

maybe the NYC cops will be sensible, but more likely today someone will
invoke the patriot act and it will be illegal to even talk about it

I agree with larry J - the terrorists have won, it's time to start our own
insurgency to take back the country - we ought to be able to argue about
politics without degenerating into name calling (you know, the commie pinko
liberal nattering nabob versus the captialist imperialst running dog pig),
we ought to be able to carry a pair of cuticle clippers onto an airplane, we
ought to be smart enough to know that live is always fatal, and nothing will
ever be risk free

Nail clippers!!

Hell, I'd be pretty happy to know that at least 1/3 of the folks
aboard a flight I was on were armed.

I'd rather take my chances on a gunfight occurring, than a takeover.

Cheers
Trevor Jones


Sounds like you have never been in a firefight.

Bullets rarely go where they are supposed to...even with pro shooters.

In an airplane full of Sunday shooters the results would be
disasterous.

TMT

The point being that an airplane full of sunday shooters, is no longer
a low risk takeover, an makes the entire scenario less like to happen.

The takeovers of the 9-11 aircraft pretty much all worked because the
passengers had been conditioned to submit, and everything would turn out
all right. It didn't, and it is a scenario unlikely to be successful again.

I beleive that the knowledge that there may be a gun out there to have
to face, IS a deterrant.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 11:43:33 -0500, Nick Hull wrote:

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

We're outspending the terrorists by something like a million to one.
For every buck they spend, we're wasting $1,000,000.

What has it netted us? _Maybe_ 5% safer airports? Feh!


And bridges that fall down because we spend the money on foolish
stuff

Lessee here....that bridge was built in 1967...and 13 yrs later was
found to be "deficient"

That would have been a Democrat President who allowed it to be
built..and a bunch of Democrats who ****ed the money away since then.
Afterall..they didnt have a war going on.

Now about the Democrats and the Levees down in New Orleans....


Gunner

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 08:37:56 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 05:06:36 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

We're outspending the terrorists by something like a million to one.
For every buck they spend, we're wasting $1,000,000.

Asymetrical warfare is like that. Always has been, always will be.

So, what have we accomplished in Iraq besides providing a large
training ground for terrorists?


Minnows swimming in the schools.

Read some Mao, and some Sun Tzu...and some von Clauswitz.

Not a bad idea. I downloaded _On War_ (Vom Kriege) from Project
Gutenberg.

--
"Excess regulation and government spending destroy jobs and increase
unemployment. Every regulator we fire results in the creation of over
150 new jobs, enough to hire the ex-regulator, the unemployed, and
the able-bodied poor." -Michael Badnarik

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

We're outspending the terrorists by something like a million to one.
For every buck they spend, we're wasting $1,000,000.

What has it netted us? _Maybe_ 5% safer airports? Feh!


And bridges that fall down because we spend the money on foolish
stuff
Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 11:43:33 -0500, Nick Hull wrote:


In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:


We're outspending the terrorists by something like a million to one.
For every buck they spend, we're wasting $1,000,000.

What has it netted us? _Maybe_ 5% safer airports? Feh!


And bridges that fall down because we spend the money on foolish
stuff


Lessee here....that bridge was built in 1967...and 13 yrs later was
found to be "deficient"

That would have been a Democrat President who allowed it to be
built..and a bunch of Democrats who ****ed the money away since then.
Afterall..they didnt have a war going on.

Now about the Democrats and the Levees down in New Orleans....


Gunner


Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/



It's Olde News(tm) and has no emotional impact any more...

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 09:42:17 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 08:37:56 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 05:06:36 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

We're outspending the terrorists by something like a million to one.
For every buck they spend, we're wasting $1,000,000.

Asymetrical warfare is like that. Always has been, always will be.

So, what have we accomplished in Iraq besides providing a large
training ground for terrorists?


Killed a ****load of terrorists, liberated 25,000,000 from a very
nasty despot, formed a central Democratic government and since the
surge..it appears that terrorist attacks are way way way down, the
Iraqis themselves are dropping a dime on the insurgents and the nation
is slowly coming to gether.

Minnows swimming in the schools.

Read some Mao, and some Sun Tzu...and some von Clauswitz.

Not a bad idea. I downloaded _On War_ (Vom Kriege) from Project
Gutenberg.

Read Mao first.

Gunner

After a Computer crash and the demise of civilization, it was learned
Gunner Asch wrote on Sun, 05 Aug 2007
08:37:56 -0700 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 05:06:36 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

We're outspending the terrorists by something like a million to one.
For every buck they spend, we're wasting $1,000,000.

Asymetrical warfare is like that. Always has been, always will be.

If we knew who, what, when and where, we could send Barney Fife to
nip it in the bud, arresting them before they were dangerous.
But we don't know (and the Democrats seem bound and determined to
prevent us from collecting the dots, let alone connecting them), so have
to plan to protect and defend everywhere.

Minnows swimming in the schools.

Read some Mao, and some Sun Tzu...and some von Clauswitz.

Yeah. I just wish I didn't have to.

Gunner
--
pyotr filipivich
"Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est. "
Lucius Annaeus Seneca, circa 45 AD
(A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.)

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 15:27:43 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 09:42:17 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:
So, what have we accomplished in Iraq besides providing a large
training ground for terrorists?


Killed a ****load of terrorists,

But haven't we also -created- more than we've killed? We're still
taking the rap for all the ****ups of the new gov't there.


liberated 25,000,000 from a very nasty despot,

One we helped create/define?


formed a central Democratic government

Which still can't function at all without our constant help?


and since the
surge..it appears that terrorist attacks are way way way down, the
Iraqis themselves are dropping a dime on the insurgents and the nation
is slowly coming to gether.

Every accomplishment you've stated is going to (or might) congeal in
the future but isn't ready for prime time this year. sigh


Minnows swimming in the schools.

Read some Mao, and some Sun Tzu...and some von Clauswitz.

Who's your fave translator for Sun? I almost bought the illustrated
copy by Griffith last year but it was $25.


Not a bad idea. I downloaded _On War_ (Vom Kriege) from Project
Gutenberg.

Read Mao first.

You want me to read the Little Red Book by Mao Tse Tung? If not that,
what book/author?

--
"Excess regulation and government spending destroy jobs and increase
unemployment. Every regulator we fire results in the creation of over
150 new jobs, enough to hire the ex-regulator, the unemployed, and
the able-bodied poor." -Michael Badnarik

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 21:02:39 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 15:27:43 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 09:42:17 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:
So, what have we accomplished in Iraq besides providing a large
training ground for terrorists?


Killed a ****load of terrorists,

But haven't we also -created- more than we've killed? We're still
taking the rap for all the ****ups of the new gov't there.

No..we have not created more than we have killed. The Syrians and
Iranians have created them.

liberated 25,000,000 from a very nasty despot,

One we helped create/define?

Nope. Read your history.


formed a central Democratic government

Which still can't function at all without our constant help?

Indeed. But they did have at least 4 general elections so far, with
women also voting for the first time.


and since the
surge..it appears that terrorist attacks are way way way down, the
Iraqis themselves are dropping a dime on the insurgents and the nation
is slowly coming to gether.

Every accomplishment you've stated is going to (or might) congeal in
the future but isn't ready for prime time this year. sigh

Taking tribal 12th century people into the 21st takes time.


Minnows swimming in the schools.

Read some Mao, and some Sun Tzu...and some von Clauswitz.

Who's your fave translator for Sun? I almost bought the illustrated
copy by Griffith last year but it was $25.

My copy is by Giles.


Not a bad idea. I downloaded _On War_ (Vom Kriege) from Project
Gutenberg.

Read Mao first.

You want me to read the Little Red Book by Mao Tse Tung? If not that,
what book/author?

Ayup. Peoples War as well

Gunner

In article symti.93681$xk5.87087@edtnps82,
Trevor Jones wrote:

I beleive that the knowledge that there may be a gun out there to have
to face, IS a deterrant.


Note that 9/11 happened less than 60 days after the feds forbad
pilots from carrying guns
Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 03:31:03 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 21:02:39 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 15:27:43 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 09:42:17 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:
So, what have we accomplished in Iraq besides providing a large
training ground for terrorists?


Killed a ****load of terrorists,

But haven't we also -created- more than we've killed? We're still
taking the rap for all the ****ups of the new gov't there.

No..we have not created more than we have killed. The Syrians and
Iranians have created them.

I'm not so sure that war hasn't created them by the deaths of their
families, and when we jumped in, it simply increased it exponentially.


liberated 25,000,000 from a very nasty despot,

One we helped create/define?

Nope. Read your history.

I know he was always a bad guy, but the CIA training didn't help
matters any. He was loved and hated by his people, but for most of
them, things are worse now.

formed a central Democratic government

Which still can't function at all without our constant help?

Indeed. But they did have at least 4 general elections so far, with
women also voting for the first time.

I don't think there is any chance in Hell that the Iraqi gov't will
come even close to being democratic, or Republican.


and since the
surge..it appears that terrorist attacks are way way way down, the
Iraqis themselves are dropping a dime on the insurgents and the nation
is slowly coming to gether.

Every accomplishment you've stated is going to (or might) congeal in
the future but isn't ready for prime time this year. sigh

Taking tribal 12th century people into the 21st takes time.

Agreed.


Minnows swimming in the schools.

Read some Mao, and some Sun Tzu...and some von Clauswitz.

Who's your fave translator for Sun? I almost bought the illustrated
copy by Griffith last year but it was $25.

My copy is by Giles.


Not a bad idea. I downloaded _On War_ (Vom Kriege) from Project
Gutenberg.

Read Mao first.

You want me to read the Little Red Book by Mao Tse Tung? If not that,
what book/author?

Ayup. Peoples War as well

How about his version of _The Art of War_ and _On Guerilla Warfare_?

--
"Excess regulation and government spending destroy jobs and increase
unemployment. Every regulator we fire results in the creation of over
150 new jobs, enough to hire the ex-regulator, the unemployed, and
the able-bodied poor." -Michael Badnarik

On Aug 4, 10:11 am, wrote:
On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 09:39:58 -0500, Nick Hull wrote:
In article
,
"Vaughn Simon" wrote:

Bizarre submersible found floating off New York City...

It was a replica of a revolutionary war wooden semi-submersible. So
floating around in a public navigable waterway in what is little more than an
oddly-shaped wooden rowboat is now somehow a crime? The terrorists have won!
We now live in a country where the slightest odd behavior is a crime.

If a replica of the "Turtle" is terrorist then a replica of a
flintlock probably is too

I believe that muzzle loading weapons are excepted from the federal
gun control laws. They classify a Walther .22 cal pistol as an
assault weapon but you can own a percussion, 44 cal muzzle loader. I
wonder what Abe Lincoln would think about that.

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)



Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

Dave