Hi, Short time lurker, Horologist in training in need of a little help ...
I purchased an emco v-10p at the end of last year, and after a few minor
problems proceded to train up in its use, starting with the milling head,
and im now getting more into the lathe side of things...

I have a 3-jaw 5" chuck (fitted with external jaws) and a 4 jaw independent
and self-centering 6/7" chuck BUT, cannot remove the backplate for the 3 jaw
to use the 4 jaw.. I wouldnt have a problem with this except that i have to
set my tools up strangely to reach into the "Cup" of the chuck.

Pretty much what i would like some help with is either a) how to remove the
backplate, without stuffing the spindle.. theres a couple of holes on the
geared end of the spindle that i tried holding a 1/8th" rod in while turning
the backplate as much as possible (not much to grip) (yes the locking bolt
on the backplate has been undone)

2nd option for the moment is trying to obtain a 2nd set of jaws (internal
stepped) for the 3 jaw chuck, which would be nice regardless... the jaw
width is approximately 3/4" wide, (left my remotely accurate measurey tools
at work)

All advice graciously accepted

Thanks

Tom the Tinkerer
Horologist in training
NSW Australia

In article , Tom the Tinkerer says...

Hi, Short time lurker, Horologist in training in need of a little help ...
I purchased an emco v-10p at the end of last year, and after a few minor
problems proceded to train up in its use, starting with the milling head,
and im now getting more into the lathe side of things...

I have a 3-jaw 5" chuck (fitted with external jaws) and a 4 jaw independent
and self-centering 6/7" chuck BUT, cannot remove the backplate for the 3 jaw
to use the 4 jaw.. I wouldnt have a problem with this except that i have to
set my tools up strangely to reach into the "Cup" of the chuck.

Pretty much what i would like some help with is either a) how to remove the
backplate, without stuffing the spindle.. theres a couple of holes on the
geared end of the spindle that i tried holding a 1/8th" rod in while turning
the backplate as much as possible (not much to grip) (yes the locking bolt
on the backplate has been undone)

2nd option for the moment is trying to obtain a 2nd set of jaws (internal
stepped) for the 3 jaw chuck, which would be nice regardless... the jaw
width is approximately 3/4" wide, (left my remotely accurate measurey tools
at work)

All advice graciously accepted

Some of the new asian lathes have the backplate as an integral
part of the spindle - are you sure that this is no the case on
the Emco? You mention that the 'locking bolt' has been undone
which imples the backplate really is separate - but exactly
what does the end of the spindle look like, do you think,
is it threaded, tapered, etc?

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

My V-10p had a flanged spindle with three bolts holding the backing plate to
it. IIRC there was a short tapered extension on the flange that centered
the backing plate. To change the chuck, you removed the three bolts (there
was just clearance between the headstock and the flange for an open-end
wrench). The chuck and backing plate then just dropped off as a unit. I
haven't had that machine for over 20 years (wish I did, it was a nice
machine) so I'm writing this from memory and CRS set in years ago. On my
machine both the 3-jaw and 4-jaw had their own backing plates.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Tom the Tinkerer says...

Hi, Short time lurker, Horologist in training in need of a little help
....
I purchased an emco v-10p at the end of last year, and after a few minor
problems proceded to train up in its use, starting with the milling head,
and im now getting more into the lathe side of things...

I have a 3-jaw 5" chuck (fitted with external jaws) and a 4 jaw
independent
and self-centering 6/7" chuck BUT, cannot remove the backplate for the 3
jaw
to use the 4 jaw.. I wouldnt have a problem with this except that i have
to
set my tools up strangely to reach into the "Cup" of the chuck.

Pretty much what i would like some help with is either a) how to remove
the
backplate, without stuffing the spindle.. theres a couple of holes on the
geared end of the spindle that i tried holding a 1/8th" rod in while
turning
the backplate as much as possible (not much to grip) (yes the locking
bolt
on the backplate has been undone)

2nd option for the moment is trying to obtain a 2nd set of jaws (internal
stepped) for the 3 jaw chuck, which would be nice regardless... the jaw
width is approximately 3/4" wide, (left my remotely accurate measurey
tools
at work)

All advice graciously accepted

Some of the new asian lathes have the backplate as an integral
part of the spindle - are you sure that this is no the case on
the Emco? You mention that the 'locking bolt' has been undone
which imples the backplate really is separate - but exactly
what does the end of the spindle look like, do you think,
is it threaded, tapered, etc?

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Tue, 11 May 2004 11:20:16 -0400, "Bob Chilcoat"
wrote:

My V-10p had a flanged spindle with three bolts holding the backing plate to
it. IIRC there was a short tapered extension on the flange that centered
the backing plate. To change the chuck, you removed the three bolts (there
was just clearance between the headstock and the flange for an open-end
wrench). The chuck and backing plate then just dropped off as a unit. I
haven't had that machine for over 20 years (wish I did, it was a nice
machine) so I'm writing this from memory and CRS set in years ago. On my
machine both the 3-jaw and 4-jaw had their own backing plates.

Your memory is probably in OK condition!
Mine has the flange with the three bolt holes as an integral part of
the spindle like yours was.
However both the instruction book and the parts manual show the
spindle as having a threaded nose. I presume mine is from a later
production?
The instruction book refers to machining the backplate in situ on the
machine to fit a particular chuck, which also attaches to it with
three bolts. It then states "A backplate which has been fitted to a
particular chuck should be left fitted to it and not used for any
other chuck, or on any other machine".
On these machines the chuck and backing plate must have to be
unscrewed to remove it. The OP's machine may be one of these.

--
Regards
Malcolm.
Remove sharp objects to get a valid e-mail address

I believe it has a tapered spindle (havent been able to remove the backplate
to see) the three bolts on mine are allen bolts, I've tried with both the
chuck still attached and removed, and soaked the spindle in wd-40 / RP7 to
try and loosen the connection.. the 4 jaw chuck does have its own backing
plate, and if real worst comes to worst, i can probably re- machine the
backing plate to accept a new chuck, but i do like using the original parts
and this wouldnt really help in the long run, as i'd eventually run out of
backing plate

The "Locking bolt" is on a collar that fits around either the threaded
section or tapered section of the spindle (again not sure) , I believe this
had been added after market to stop the chuck spinning off when cutting in
reverse

Thanks

Tom the Tinkerer
Horologist in training
NSW Australia


"Malcolm Moore" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 May 2004 11:20:16 -0400, "Bob Chilcoat"
wrote:

My V-10p had a flanged spindle with three bolts holding the backing plate
to
it. IIRC there was a short tapered extension on the flange that centered
the backing plate. To change the chuck, you removed the three bolts
(there
was just clearance between the headstock and the flange for an open-end
wrench). The chuck and backing plate then just dropped off as a unit. I
haven't had that machine for over 20 years (wish I did, it was a nice
machine) so I'm writing this from memory and CRS set in years ago. On my
machine both the 3-jaw and 4-jaw had their own backing plates.

Your memory is probably in OK condition!
Mine has the flange with the three bolt holes as an integral part of
the spindle like yours was.
However both the instruction book and the parts manual show the
spindle as having a threaded nose. I presume mine is from a later
production?
The instruction book refers to machining the backplate in situ on the
machine to fit a particular chuck, which also attaches to it with
three bolts. It then states "A backplate which has been fitted to a
particular chuck should be left fitted to it and not used for any
other chuck, or on any other machine".
On these machines the chuck and backing plate must have to be
unscrewed to remove it. The OP's machine may be one of these.

--
Regards
Malcolm.
Remove sharp objects to get a valid e-mail address

In article ,
Tom the Tinkerer wrote:
I believe it has a tapered spindle (havent been able to remove the backplate
to see) the three bolts on mine are allen bolts, I've tried with both the
chuck still attached and removed, and soaked the spindle in wd-40 / RP7 to
try and loosen the connection.. the 4 jaw chuck does have its own backing
plate, and if real worst comes to worst, i can probably re- machine the
backing plate to accept a new chuck, but i do like using the original parts
and this wouldnt really help in the long run, as i'd eventually run out of
backing plate

The "Locking bolt" is on a collar that fits around either the threaded
section or tapered section of the spindle (again not sure) , I believe this
had been added after market to stop the chuck spinning off when cutting in
reverse

Tapered and threaded don't normally appear on the same lathe --
with one exception which I will mention below. If it is threaded, there
should be a register following the threaded section. (That is -- either
the same diameter as the threads, or larger, but cylindrical, with a
step increase in diameter afterwards, which serves to locate the chuck.

If you have a locking bolt, it is most likely to be decreasing
the diameter of the register part of the backing plate (via a split) to
clamp onto the register of the spindle -- for the very purpose which you
suggested. You may simply have a case of some rust having formed where
the two meet, from water wicking down in the slot which the locking bolt
clamps. You might try loosening the clamping bolt, and then driving a
thin screwdriver blade into the slot to expand it a bit, and see whether
that allows things to unscrew. Add some penetrating oil and perhaps
some controlled heat to encourage the penetration. (More on this
subject after the exception paragraph below.)

* The one exception to the "threads don't mix with tapers" rule
which I suggested above is the L-00 (and other sizes, all
starting with 'L'). This has a long taper, with a key mounted
to the spindle nose, and a keyway in the female taper in the
chuck backplate or the chuck if it comes without a backplate.
The female taper on the chuck has an external threaded section,
which is engaged by a loose threaded ring on the spindle which
draws the chuck firmly onto the taper. To the best of my
knowledge, Emco did not use the L-00 on any of their machines,
though it is possible that E*n*co did -- totally different
machines.

Threaded spindles have problems which require proper care to
avoid.

1) The threads on both the spindle and the chuck *must* be clean
or you risk getting the chuck stuck in place. You should make a
spring loaded tool to clean chips out of the threads, and use
it before mounting the chuck each time. (The register should
also be clean.)

2) Another problem can come from either putting the chuck on
loosely and starting a cut, or from noticing that the chuck is
starting to unscrew from the spindle and switching it into
forward to catch up with the threads. Either case causes the
chuck to seat rather too vigorously, and risks having it on
tight enough so removing it will be difficult at best.

It was a combination of the two above which led me to replacing
my spindle (2-1/4x8 threaded) with an L-00 spindle when the opportunity
arose. I have not regretted this conversion. (And I *did* have to
fight a too-tight chuck a few times.

Note that there is one sure-fire way to deal with the problem,
especially since your chuck can be removed from the backing plate.
Remove it, procure a replacement backing plate, and machine the old one
off of the spindle. Eventually, you will get down to the spiral of
metal which made the threads of the chuck backing plate, which should be
easy to unwind or unscrew from the spindle. Be careful with the
register area. This is less likely to damage the lathe itself than some
of the more vigorous means of freeing a stuck chuck.

Since you have another chuck which fits the machine, examine it
closely, to see just how it works.

Once everyone knows what kind of spindle you have, you should
get lots of suggestions on how to remove the stuck backplate. Since
Emco has used several styles of chuck attachment over the years (mine,
for my Compact-5, bolts the chuck to the spindle nose by Allen-head
bolts passing through the chuck body between the jaws), and since some
at last seem to be confusing Emco with Enco (the latter, in recent
years, selling imported Asian lathes -- mostly Chinese and Taiwanese).

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tom the Tinkerer wrote:
I believe it has a tapered spindle (havent been able to remove the
backplate
to see) the three bolts on mine are allen bolts, I've tried with both the
chuck still attached and removed, and soaked the spindle in wd-40 / RP7
to
try and loosen the connection.. the 4 jaw chuck does have its own
backing
plate, and if real worst comes to worst, i can probably re- machine the
backing plate to accept a new chuck, but i do like using the original
parts
and this wouldnt really help in the long run, as i'd eventually run out
of
backing plate

The "Locking bolt" is on a collar that fits around either the threaded
section or tapered section of the spindle (again not sure) , I believe
this
had been added after market to stop the chuck spinning off when cutting
in
reverse

Tapered and threaded don't normally appear on the same lathe --
with one exception which I will mention below. If it is threaded, there
should be a register following the threaded section. (That is -- either
the same diameter as the threads, or larger, but cylindrical, with a
step increase in diameter afterwards, which serves to locate the chuck.

If you have a locking bolt, it is most likely to be decreasing
the diameter of the register part of the backing plate (via a split) to
clamp onto the register of the spindle -- for the very purpose which you
suggested. You may simply have a case of some rust having formed where
the two meet, from water wicking down in the slot which the locking bolt
clamps. You might try loosening the clamping bolt, and then driving a
thin screwdriver blade into the slot to expand it a bit, and see whether
that allows things to unscrew. Add some penetrating oil and perhaps
some controlled heat to encourage the penetration. (More on this
subject after the exception paragraph below.)

* The one exception to the "threads don't mix with tapers" rule
which I suggested above is the L-00 (and other sizes, all
starting with 'L'). This has a long taper, with a key mounted
to the spindle nose, and a keyway in the female taper in the
chuck backplate or the chuck if it comes without a backplate.
The female taper on the chuck has an external threaded section,
which is engaged by a loose threaded ring on the spindle which
draws the chuck firmly onto the taper. To the best of my
knowledge, Emco did not use the L-00 on any of their machines,
though it is possible that E*n*co did -- totally different
machines.

Threaded spindles have problems which require proper care to
avoid.

1) The threads on both the spindle and the chuck *must* be clean
or you risk getting the chuck stuck in place. You should make a
spring loaded tool to clean chips out of the threads, and use
it before mounting the chuck each time. (The register should
also be clean.)

2) Another problem can come from either putting the chuck on
loosely and starting a cut, or from noticing that the chuck is
starting to unscrew from the spindle and switching it into
forward to catch up with the threads. Either case causes the
chuck to seat rather too vigorously, and risks having it on
tight enough so removing it will be difficult at best.

It was a combination of the two above which led me to replacing
my spindle (2-1/4x8 threaded) with an L-00 spindle when the opportunity
arose. I have not regretted this conversion. (And I *did* have to
fight a too-tight chuck a few times.

Note that there is one sure-fire way to deal with the problem,
especially since your chuck can be removed from the backing plate.
Remove it, procure a replacement backing plate, and machine the old one
off of the spindle. Eventually, you will get down to the spiral of
metal which made the threads of the chuck backing plate, which should be
easy to unwind or unscrew from the spindle. Be careful with the
register area. This is less likely to damage the lathe itself than some
of the more vigorous means of freeing a stuck chuck.

Since you have another chuck which fits the machine, examine it
closely, to see just how it works.

Once everyone knows what kind of spindle you have, you should
get lots of suggestions on how to remove the stuck backplate. Since
Emco has used several styles of chuck attachment over the years (mine,
for my Compact-5, bolts the chuck to the spindle nose by Allen-head
bolts passing through the chuck body between the jaws), and since some
at last seem to be confusing Emco with Enco (the latter, in recent
years, selling imported Asian lathes -- mostly Chinese and Taiwanese).

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---


You would be right
at the headstock end of the nose there is an unthreaded portion, which is
where the clamp fits, i will attempt the levering of the collar this
weekend, although finding internal jaws would solve my problem for a while
too.. I'll have to try and source a new backplate as well. although i feel a
little anxious at cutting the existing backplate off
Thanks so far G

Tom the Tinkerer
Horologist in training
NSW Australia

In article ,
Tom the Tinkerer wrote:

[ ... ]

You would be right
at the headstock end of the nose there is an unthreaded portion, which is
where the clamp fits, i will attempt the levering of the collar this
weekend, although finding internal jaws would solve my problem for a while
too..

Note that *some* Emco chucks have reversible jaws. Remove them,
and look at the teeth on the back which engage the scroll plate. If
they look sort of like this:

[ (( (( (( (( (( (( (( ]

They are the normal non-reversible ones. However, if they look more
like this:

[ () () () () () () () ]

(curved both ways on the two sides) they can be installed into the chuck
body backwards. Note that this is more often found on smaller chucks
than what you have, (e.g. one of the styles for the Compact-5, and the
one which came with the Unimat SL-1000) but it just may be that you have
them in your chuck. Note that these are not as strong as the
non-reversible ones, so if you have them, be more careful about cranking
down on the wrench.

Also -- just in case -- are your chuck jaws two-piece? The top
jaws held onto the bottom with Allen head cap screws? If so, you should
be able to unbolt them and reverse them.

I'll have to try and source a new backplate as well. although i feel a
little anxious at cutting the existing backplate off

I understand. It is a last-ditch solution -- and you will lose
the special slit and clampable register collar, so other attempts to
free and preserve the existing one should be tried first.

Best of luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---