Anyone have a pointer to a comparison of the mill/drill machines? I
haven't the room for a knee mill downstairs [oh, MightyMax, forgive me!]

Items I looked at:
Harbor Freight 42827-0VGA
Grizzly G0463

Rules of the game:
20 A 115v.
Must get down stairs (bed, headstock and parts separate)
Rigidity.
Repeatability.

I'm not hot on the circular support with a quill on the side [a la the
drill press]. It would be nice if this puppy could be picked up within
roughly 200 miles of Beloit, WI. Gearhead over belt drive.

If you really want a gear head mill/drill, this is a good choice. Of
course, depending on when and where it is made, quality is variable. I
was lucky to get a good one. The gearbox and quill is smooth and
relatively quite, the bed trams out to .0007 both ways, and the motor
seems very good. Mine gets lots of use. Note these weigh in at about 1K.
Rigidity of the machine is very good. The handwheels are 0 settable, and
repeatability is more a function of skill than machine tightness.
Despite the seemingly major drawback of losing index if the head is
unlocked for moving, I find a little forethought in setup eliminates for
the most part this limitation.
Here's a link to a mill table I made for mine:
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...retired_files/
See table.txt and the associated jpgs
JR
Dweller in the cellar

Louis Ohland wrote:

Anyone have a pointer to a comparison of the mill/drill machines? I
haven't the room for a knee mill downstairs [oh, MightyMax, forgive me!]

Items I looked at:
Harbor Freight 42827-0VGA
Grizzly G0463

Rules of the game:
20 A 115v.
Must get down stairs (bed, headstock and parts separate)
Rigidity.
Repeatability.

I'm not hot on the circular support with a quill on the side [a la the
drill press]. It would be nice if this puppy could be picked up within
roughly 200 miles of Beloit, WI. Gearhead over belt drive.


--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

Interesting [stealth technology in a shop...]. Any other contenders?
Rong Fu has some interesting mills...

JR North wrote:
If you really want a gear head mill/drill, this is a good choice. Of
course, depending on when and where it is made, quality is variable. I
was lucky to get a good one. The gearbox and quill is smooth and
relatively quite, the bed trams out to .0007 both ways, and the motor
seems very good. Mine gets lots of use. Note these weigh in at about 1K.
Rigidity of the machine is very good. The handwheels are 0 settable, and
repeatability is more a function of skill than machine tightness.
Despite the seemingly major drawback of losing index if the head is
unlocked for moving, I find a little forethought in setup eliminates for
the most part this limitation.
Here's a link to a mill table I made for mine:
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...retired_files/
See table.txt and the associated jpgs
JR
Dweller in the cellar

Louis Ohland wrote:

Anyone have a pointer to a comparison of the mill/drill machines? I
haven't the room for a knee mill downstairs [oh, MightyMax, forgive me!]

Items I looked at:
Harbor Freight 42827-0VGA
Grizzly G0463

Rules of the game:
20 A 115v.
Must get down stairs (bed, headstock and parts separate)
Rigidity.
Repeatability.

I'm not hot on the circular support with a quill on the side [a la the
drill press]. It would be nice if this puppy could be picked up within
roughly 200 miles of Beloit, WI. Gearhead over belt drive.

"Louis Ohland" wrote in message
...
Anyone have a pointer to a comparison of the mill/drill machines? I
haven't the room for a knee mill downstairs [oh, MightyMax, forgive me!]

Items I looked at:
Harbor Freight 42827-0VGA
Grizzly G0463

Rules of the game:
20 A 115v.

This is going to be the hard one, I have several woodworking machines that
are in this current range, and resetting breakers is a way of life.

Must get down stairs (bed, headstock and parts separate)

That's how my A1-S knee mill came down, not too bad with two people.

Rigidity.
Repeatability.

The second depends on the first here. The larger machines are fairly rigid,
I worked with one for more than ten years before buying the A1-S from KBC.
There is a learning curve, mostly finding out what the machine wants and
doesn't want.

I'm not hot on the circular support with a quill on the side [a la the
drill press]. It would be nice if this puppy could be picked up within
roughly 200 miles of Beloit, WI. Gearhead over belt drive.

There is a big price difference between the mill/drill and A1-S, a little
more than double. HOwever, KBC delivered my mill the day after I ordered
it, to Burlington, not far from you. I've had no complaints, the only
complaint I had with the mill/drill was the handwheels, they're diecast and
made as cheap as they can make them, I had go machine new ones out of
aluminum to replace them, but not really a big deal. Space requirements for
either are about the same, figure double the length of the table.

Rich.

A1-S is made by who? I've seen references to it, some specs would be good.

greybeard wrote:
"Louis Ohland" wrote in message
...
Anyone have a pointer to a comparison of the mill/drill machines? I
haven't the room for a knee mill downstairs [oh, MightyMax, forgive me!]

Items I looked at:
Harbor Freight 42827-0VGA
Grizzly G0463

Rules of the game:
20 A 115v.

This is going to be the hard one, I have several woodworking machines that
are in this current range, and resetting breakers is a way of life.

Must get down stairs (bed, headstock and parts separate)

That's how my A1-S knee mill came down, not too bad with two people.

Rigidity.
Repeatability.

The second depends on the first here. The larger machines are fairly rigid,
I worked with one for more than ten years before buying the A1-S from KBC.
There is a learning curve, mostly finding out what the machine wants and
doesn't want.
I'm not hot on the circular support with a quill on the side [a la the
drill press]. It would be nice if this puppy could be picked up within
roughly 200 miles of Beloit, WI. Gearhead over belt drive.

There is a big price difference between the mill/drill and A1-S, a little
more than double. HOwever, KBC delivered my mill the day after I ordered
it, to Burlington, not far from you. I've had no complaints, the only
complaint I had with the mill/drill was the handwheels, they're diecast and
made as cheap as they can make them, I had go machine new ones out of
aluminum to replace them, but not really a big deal. Space requirements for
either are about the same, figure double the length of the table.

Rich.

Motor: 2 HP, 110V/220V/60Hz

Height 42"


Love that dovetail column.

SIEG X3 BENCHTOP MILLING MACHINE
http://www.lathemaster.com/SIEG%20X3...%20MACHINE.htm

Wayne wrote:
Another one you can look at.

http://www.lathemaster.com/HEAVYDUTY...E%207045FG.htm

Wayne D.

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:06:41 -0600, Louis Ohland
wrote:

Interesting [stealth technology in a shop...]. Any other contenders?
Rong Fu has some interesting mills...

JR North wrote:
If you really want a gear head mill/drill, this is a good choice. Of
course, depending on when and where it is made, quality is variable.
I was lucky to get a good one. The gearbox and quill is smooth and
relatively quite, the bed trams out to .0007 both ways, and the
motor seems very good. Mine gets lots of use. Note these weigh in at
about 1K.
Rigidity of the machine is very good. The handwheels are 0 settable,
and repeatability is more a function of skill than machine tightness.
Despite the seemingly major drawback of losing index if the head is
unlocked for moving, I find a little forethought in setup eliminates
for the most part this limitation.
Here's a link to a mill table I made for mine:
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...retired_files/
See table.txt and the associated jpgs
JR
Dweller in the cellar
Louis Ohland wrote:

Anyone have a pointer to a comparison of the mill/drill machines?
I haven't the room for a knee mill downstairs [oh, MightyMax,
forgive me!]

Items I looked at:
Harbor Freight 42827-0VGA
Grizzly G0463

Rules of the game:
20 A 115v.
Must get down stairs (bed, headstock and parts separate)
Rigidity.
Repeatability.

I'm not hot on the circular support with a quill on the side [a la
the drill press]. It would be nice if this puppy could be picked up
within roughly 200 miles of Beloit, WI. Gearhead over belt drive.

I read that Rong Fu is the most copied drill/mill maker, just that some
makers don't copy it too well.

The Seig X3 weighs in about 165 to 198 Kg, depending on options. Who
makes a DRO that fits it without too much trouble?

My Dad is of the opinion that a DRO is not necessary, but I loved being
able to zero and then crank 'er right down to the thousandth...

3 axis is where it's at.

Brent Philion wrote:
From what i Can see Rong fu seems to the the predominant MillDrill OEM

At least up here in Canada it seems almost everything being sold that
isnt heavy industrial is a rong fu or a rebadge

Busybee (Craftex) uses RF31's as does King Canada

There is a local store here that sells "honest" Rong Fu's so i might
consider the RF40

I've seen the Sieg X3 as another option but are there other
manufacturers of similar sized mill drills?

OR really small (1000 pound) real mills

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:06:41 -0600, Louis Ohland
wrote:

Interesting [stealth technology in a shop...]. Any other contenders?
Rong Fu has some interesting mills...

JR North wrote:
If you really want a gear head mill/drill, this is a good choice. Of
course, depending on when and where it is made, quality is variable. I
was lucky to get a good one. The gearbox and quill is smooth and
relatively quite, the bed trams out to .0007 both ways, and the motor
seems very good. Mine gets lots of use. Note these weigh in at about 1K.
Rigidity of the machine is very good. The handwheels are 0 settable, and
repeatability is more a function of skill than machine tightness.
Despite the seemingly major drawback of losing index if the head is
unlocked for moving, I find a little forethought in setup eliminates for
the most part this limitation.
Here's a link to a mill table I made for mine:
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...retired_files/
See table.txt and the associated jpgs
JR
Dweller in the cellar

Louis Ohland wrote:

Anyone have a pointer to a comparison of the mill/drill machines? I
haven't the room for a knee mill downstairs [oh, MightyMax, forgive me!]

Items I looked at:
Harbor Freight 42827-0VGA
Grizzly G0463

Rules of the game:
20 A 115v.
Must get down stairs (bed, headstock and parts separate)
Rigidity.
Repeatability.

I'm not hot on the circular support with a quill on the side [a la the
drill press]. It would be nice if this puppy could be picked up within
roughly 200 miles of Beloit, WI. Gearhead over belt drive.

From what i Can see Rong fu seems to the the predominant MillDrill OEM

At least up here in Canada it seems almost everything being sold that
isnt heavy industrial is a rong fu or a rebadge

Busybee (Craftex) uses RF31's as does King Canada

There is a local store here that sells "honest" Rong Fu's so i might
consider the RF40

I've seen the Sieg X3 as another option but are there other
manufacturers of similar sized mill drills?

OR really small (1000 pound) real mills

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:06:41 -0600, Louis Ohland
wrote:

Interesting [stealth technology in a shop...]. Any other contenders?
Rong Fu has some interesting mills...

JR North wrote:
If you really want a gear head mill/drill, this is a good choice. Of
course, depending on when and where it is made, quality is variable. I
was lucky to get a good one. The gearbox and quill is smooth and
relatively quite, the bed trams out to .0007 both ways, and the motor
seems very good. Mine gets lots of use. Note these weigh in at about 1K.
Rigidity of the machine is very good. The handwheels are 0 settable, and
repeatability is more a function of skill than machine tightness.
Despite the seemingly major drawback of losing index if the head is
unlocked for moving, I find a little forethought in setup eliminates for
the most part this limitation.
Here's a link to a mill table I made for mine:
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...retired_files/
See table.txt and the associated jpgs
JR
Dweller in the cellar

Louis Ohland wrote:

Anyone have a pointer to a comparison of the mill/drill machines? I
haven't the room for a knee mill downstairs [oh, MightyMax, forgive me!]

Items I looked at:
Harbor Freight 42827-0VGA
Grizzly G0463

Rules of the game:
20 A 115v.
Must get down stairs (bed, headstock and parts separate)
Rigidity.
Repeatability.

I'm not hot on the circular support with a quill on the side [a la the
drill press]. It would be nice if this puppy could be picked up within
roughly 200 miles of Beloit, WI. Gearhead over belt drive.

My dad doesn't want DRO, I almost need it.
"Louis Ohland" wrote in message
...
I read that Rong Fu is the most copied drill/mill maker, just that some
makers don't copy it too well.

The Seig X3 weighs in about 165 to 198 Kg, depending on options. Who makes
a DRO that fits it without too much trouble?

My Dad is of the opinion that a DRO is not necessary, but I loved being
able to zero and then crank 'er right down to the thousandth...

3 axis is where it's at.

Brent Philion wrote:
From what i Can see Rong fu seems to the the predominant MillDrill OEM

At least up here in Canada it seems almost everything being sold that
isnt heavy industrial is a rong fu or a rebadge

Busybee (Craftex) uses RF31's as does King Canada

There is a local store here that sells "honest" Rong Fu's so i might
consider the RF40

I've seen the Sieg X3 as another option but are there other
manufacturers of similar sized mill drills? OR really small (1000 pound)
real mills

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:06:41 -0600, Louis Ohland
wrote:

Interesting [stealth technology in a shop...]. Any other contenders?
Rong Fu has some interesting mills...

JR North wrote:
If you really want a gear head mill/drill, this is a good choice. Of
course, depending on when and where it is made, quality is variable. I
was lucky to get a good one. The gearbox and quill is smooth and
relatively quite, the bed trams out to .0007 both ways, and the motor
seems very good. Mine gets lots of use. Note these weigh in at about
1K.
Rigidity of the machine is very good. The handwheels are 0 settable,
and repeatability is more a function of skill than machine tightness.
Despite the seemingly major drawback of losing index if the head is
unlocked for moving, I find a little forethought in setup eliminates
for the most part this limitation.
Here's a link to a mill table I made for mine:
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...retired_files/
See table.txt and the associated jpgs
JR
Dweller in the cellar

Louis Ohland wrote:

Anyone have a pointer to a comparison of the mill/drill machines? I
haven't the room for a knee mill downstairs [oh, MightyMax, forgive
me!]

Items I looked at:
Harbor Freight 42827-0VGA
Grizzly G0463

Rules of the game:
20 A 115v.
Must get down stairs (bed, headstock and parts separate)
Rigidity.
Repeatability.

I'm not hot on the circular support with a quill on the side [a la the
drill press]. It would be nice if this puppy could be picked up within
roughly 200 miles of Beloit, WI. Gearhead over belt drive.

Louis Ohland wrote:

A1-S is made by who? I've seen references to it, some specs would be good.

Its more of a style than a specific model anymore, as there are a pile
of outfits making them now.
Pretty much all the outfits selling mill/drills sell an A1S style mill.

Grizzly
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G3102
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G9977

KBC Tools
http://www.kbctools.com/usa/main.cfm (its on page 974, top left
corner)

etc.,etc.

The real fast rundown on mill/drills is that there are a bunch of
suppliers that will sell you a machine, some machines better built than
others. Tiawan built tends to be better than mainland China built. Also
a bit more money. There are a couple of the benchtop mills that are of
similar capacities but vary greatly in the amount of weight that is in
them. The RF 25 type vs. RF 30 type specifically, with the RF 30 having
a considerably larger column and heavier castings. The RF 45 style mill
is about as big as the benchtop models get, and it has a dovetail column
and a geared head. The A1S mills could really be called a semi-benchtop
mill, as they are really a bit too tall to put on a bench, but not
really able to be placed on the floor without being on a stand. If you
are minly interested in really small work, the wood mill from Grizzly
has a higher top (and bottom) speed.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Thanks for the link to KBC Tools. The A1-S models are a wee bit bigger
than I'd like to take down the steps.

Right now the Seig X3 [or Super X3 if I can find one] looks to be the
contender.

Trevor Jones wrote:
Louis Ohland wrote:
A1-S is made by who? I've seen references to it, some specs would be good.

Its more of a style than a specific model anymore, as there are a pile
of outfits making them now.
Pretty much all the outfits selling mill/drills sell an A1S style mill.

Grizzly
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G3102
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G9977

KBC Tools
http://www.kbctools.com/usa/main.cfm (its on page 974, top left
corner)

etc.,etc.

The real fast rundown on mill/drills is that there are a bunch of
suppliers that will sell you a machine, some machines better built than
others. Tiawan built tends to be better than mainland China built. Also
a bit more money. There are a couple of the benchtop mills that are of
similar capacities but vary greatly in the amount of weight that is in
them. The RF 25 type vs. RF 30 type specifically, with the RF 30 having
a considerably larger column and heavier castings. The RF 45 style mill
is about as big as the benchtop models get, and it has a dovetail column
and a geared head. The A1S mills could really be called a semi-benchtop
mill, as they are really a bit too tall to put on a bench, but not
really able to be placed on the floor without being on a stand. If you
are minly interested in really small work, the wood mill from Grizzly
has a higher top (and bottom) speed.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Not long ago I was in the same boat you are now and had a good hard
look at what was available. Almost went for the RF45 but settled on
a used Clausing 8520, with a 6x24" table and about 650lbs it was
just right for the basement and what I do.

They are a little hard to find but turn up on e-Bay and at dealers for
HSM type machines. I paid $1750 for mine and it came with a 4"
vise, I love it!

Did a full restoration and enjoyed every minute of it:

http://gallery.intlwaters.com/thumbnails.php?album=323

You can see from the pix how robust it is and the remarkable
accuracy.

Here's another site giving more details:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/clausing%20vertical/index.html

Look for an 8520 with the MT2 spindle, the 8525 has a B&S which is
harder to find tooling for.

Another great machine for a garage shop. I've looked at Clausing's gear
head drill presses, and wouldn't mind one for a second machine.

Trying to track down a Sieg Super X3 [more power, same frame as X3].
Grizzly and Lathemaster have the X3. As with any male, I want a bigger
one...

Terry Keeley wrote:
Not long ago I was in the same boat you are now and had a good hard
look at what was available. Almost went for the RF45 but settled on
a used Clausing 8520, with a 6x24" table and about 650lbs it was
just right for the basement and what I do.

They are a little hard to find but turn up on e-Bay and at dealers for
HSM type machines. I paid $1750 for mine and it came with a 4"
vise, I love it!

Did a full restoration and enjoyed every minute of it:

http://gallery.intlwaters.com/thumbnails.php?album=323

You can see from the pix how robust it is and the remarkable
accuracy.

Here's another site giving more details:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/clausing%20vertical/index.html

Look for an 8520 with the MT2 spindle, the 8525 has a B&S which is
harder to find tooling for.

Louis Ohland wrote:
Another great machine for a garage shop.


Just to muddy the waters here-

Here on the (east)coast, riggers are $75 an hour, with a two hour
minimum. Get what you want and have the riggers move it in. Mentally add
the rigging cost into the price. This will open up a number of
possibilities.

Kevin Gallimore

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Hadn't considered that.

axolotl wrote:
Louis Ohland wrote:
Another great machine for a garage shop.


Just to muddy the waters here-

Here on the (east)coast, riggers are $75 an hour, with a two hour
minimum. Get what you want and have the riggers move it in. Mentally add
the rigging cost into the price. This will open up a number of
possibilities.

Kevin Gallimore

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Greetings all,

I've only recently heard of the KBC offering, and note that it has more
Z travel and quill to table distance than Grizzly's or wholesale tools'
versions. (and that's been a common criticism of the 6x26" mills, from
what I've read. Some users are making/considering riser blocks.)

But until I found this thread, I hadn't found any info/opinions from
KBC mill owners.

Rich/any other KBC owners reading:
If you can spare a few moments, would you please email/post re how well
you like yours/any issues to be aware of, how much cleanup it
needed.... Similarly, anything you can say about taking it apart to
move/ballpark weights would be appreciated. (Like which chunk was the
heaviest.) (For instance, I can't tell, from the catalog pic, how easy
it is to get the knee assembly off of the "cabinet" below it.) Sounds
like most folks use a shop crane for diss-assembly and re-assembly.
Did you come up with a different scheme?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
greybeard wrote:
snip

Must get down stairs (bed, headstock and parts separate)
That's how my A1-S knee mill came down, not too bad with two people.

Rigidity.
Repeatability.

The second depends on the first here. The larger machines are fairly rigid,
I worked with one for more than ten years before buying the A1-S from KBC.
There is a learning curve, mostly finding out what the machine wants and
doesn't want.

snip

There is a big price difference between the mill/drill and A1-S, a little
more than double. HOwever, KBC delivered my mill the day after I ordered
it, to Burlington, not far from you. I've had no complaints, the only
complaint I had with the mill/drill was the handwheels, they're diecast and
made as cheap as they can make them, I had go machine new ones out of
aluminum to replace them, but not really a big deal. Space requirements for
either are about the same, figure double the length of the table.