David Utidjian wrote:

I need to anchor a 9"swing 40" long bed (with cabinet base) Rockwell
lathe to a concrete floor. I need to make it as level as possible and
then level the bed. There are level adjusting nuts and screws between
the cast iron bed and the cabinet.
The cabinet has 1/2" diameter holes in 4 tabs at its base.
The floor is well cured smooth flat concrete (poured about 30 years
ago). I have a Starrett No. 199 Master Precision Level for the final
leveling.

My plan was to use 3/8" X 3 3/4" "redhead" or "ramset" anchors and those
automotive shims that are about 1" square with U slots in them as the
levelling shims.

Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Are there better tricks for getting the cabinet level than jamming in
shims?
Would 3/8" be strong enough? Would(approx) 3" of the bolt below grade be
deep enough?

I was thinking since the bolts will actually be studs and if I have
enough thread above grade I could first put a big washer and nut to
secure the stud in the concrete and then add another nut and washer as a
"jack" then comes the tab on the cabinet base and then a final washer
and nut. Of course this arrangement would raise the cabinet tabs at
least the thickness of two nuts and two washers above the floor surface.
I would also make leveling MUCH easier. Does that sound like a
reasonable idea? Should I go with the full 1/2" anchors instead of 3/8"?

Also... currently the lathe is about 6" from a cinderbock wall. Makes it
damn difficult to clean behind it. Since I have a lot of room to play
with how much clearance from the wall would be a good idea? Just enough
to walk around it easily?

Since this is my first time setting up such a (relatively) large machine
and since concrete anchor bolts are rather permanent I would like to do
it right the first time.

-DU-...etc...

I would not anchor the machine to a really flat floor; just move it to where you
want it, and level it.

I have given thought to how to orient a lathe in a small shop, and I now suggest
that you have it coming out 90° from a wall, with the tailstock end towards the
wall, spaced out far enough from the wall so that you can get around behind the
tailstock to squint at the marking for when you are adjusting tailstock setover.
It's bad news to put the headstock end towards the wall, because that interferes
with passing long stock through the headstock. Nor do I like having the back of
the machine face the wall as I have to get back there to clean chips and also to
look carefully at the scribed degree markings on the compound, or to monkey
around with the motor.

GWE

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:02:21 -0800, Grant Erwin
wrote:

David Utidjian wrote:

I need to anchor a 9"swing 40" long bed (with cabinet base) Rockwell
lathe to a concrete floor. I need to make it as level as possible and
then level the bed. There are level adjusting nuts and screws between
the cast iron bed and the cabinet.
The cabinet has 1/2" diameter holes in 4 tabs at its base.
The floor is well cured smooth flat concrete (poured about 30 years
ago). I have a Starrett No. 199 Master Precision Level for the final
leveling.

My plan was to use 3/8" X 3 3/4" "redhead" or "ramset" anchors and those
automotive shims that are about 1" square with U slots in them as the
levelling shims.

Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Are there better tricks for getting the cabinet level than jamming in
shims?
Would 3/8" be strong enough? Would(approx) 3" of the bolt below grade be
deep enough?

I was thinking since the bolts will actually be studs and if I have
enough thread above grade I could first put a big washer and nut to
secure the stud in the concrete and then add another nut and washer as a
"jack" then comes the tab on the cabinet base and then a final washer
and nut. Of course this arrangement would raise the cabinet tabs at
least the thickness of two nuts and two washers above the floor surface.
I would also make leveling MUCH easier. Does that sound like a
reasonable idea? Should I go with the full 1/2" anchors instead of 3/8"?

Also... currently the lathe is about 6" from a cinderbock wall. Makes it
damn difficult to clean behind it. Since I have a lot of room to play
with how much clearance from the wall would be a good idea? Just enough
to walk around it easily?

Since this is my first time setting up such a (relatively) large machine
and since concrete anchor bolts are rather permanent I would like to do
it right the first time.

-DU-...etc...

I would not anchor the machine to a really flat floor; just move it to where you
want it, and level it.

I have given thought to how to orient a lathe in a small shop, and I now suggest
that you have it coming out 90° from a wall, with the tailstock end towards the
wall, spaced out far enough from the wall so that you can get around behind the
tailstock to squint at the marking for when you are adjusting tailstock setover.
It's bad news to put the headstock end towards the wall, because that interferes
with passing long stock through the headstock. Nor do I like having the back of
the machine face the wall as I have to get back there to clean chips and also to
look carefully at the scribed degree markings on the compound, or to monkey
around with the motor.

GWE


Most of my customers shops have the tailstocks at the wall..with the
lathe at a 45' angle for this reason. Gives a bit more floor space
than a true 90

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

Gunner wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:02:21 -0800, Grant Erwin
wrote:


David Utidjian wrote:


I need to anchor a 9"swing 40" long bed (with cabinet base) Rockwell
lathe to a concrete floor. I need to make it as level as possible and
then level the bed. There are level adjusting nuts and screws between
the cast iron bed and the cabinet.
The cabinet has 1/2" diameter holes in 4 tabs at its base.
The floor is well cured smooth flat concrete (poured about 30 years
ago). I have a Starrett No. 199 Master Precision Level for the final
leveling.

My plan was to use 3/8" X 3 3/4" "redhead" or "ramset" anchors and those
automotive shims that are about 1" square with U slots in them as the
levelling shims.

Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Are there better tricks for getting the cabinet level than jamming in
shims?
Would 3/8" be strong enough? Would(approx) 3" of the bolt below grade be
deep enough?

I was thinking since the bolts will actually be studs and if I have
enough thread above grade I could first put a big washer and nut to
secure the stud in the concrete and then add another nut and washer as a
"jack" then comes the tab on the cabinet base and then a final washer
and nut. Of course this arrangement would raise the cabinet tabs at
least the thickness of two nuts and two washers above the floor surface.
I would also make leveling MUCH easier. Does that sound like a
reasonable idea? Should I go with the full 1/2" anchors instead of 3/8"?

Also... currently the lathe is about 6" from a cinderbock wall. Makes it
damn difficult to clean behind it. Since I have a lot of room to play
with how much clearance from the wall would be a good idea? Just enough
to walk around it easily?

Since this is my first time setting up such a (relatively) large machine
and since concrete anchor bolts are rather permanent I would like to do
it right the first time.

-DU-...etc...

I would not anchor the machine to a really flat floor; just move it to where you
want it, and level it.

I have given thought to how to orient a lathe in a small shop, and I now suggest
that you have it coming out 90° from a wall, with the tailstock end towards the
wall, spaced out far enough from the wall so that you can get around behind the
tailstock to squint at the marking for when you are adjusting tailstock setover.
It's bad news to put the headstock end towards the wall, because that interferes
with passing long stock through the headstock. Nor do I like having the back of
the machine face the wall as I have to get back there to clean chips and also to
look carefully at the scribed degree markings on the compound, or to monkey
around with the motor.

GWE



Most of my customers shops have the tailstocks at the wall..with the
lathe at a 45' angle for this reason. Gives a bit more floor space
than a true 90

Gunner

Thanks for the pointers.

A few comments:

As I understand it OSHA requires that machine tools be anchored to the
floor. This shop is in a small state college in New Jersey. I am
required to comply. With that said... none of the machine tools have
been anchored since installed about 30 years ago. I am having problems
with this lathe. It seems that the centerline of the tailstock is 0.005"
lower than the centerline of the headstock. Seems to me that I should
anchor it and level it _before_ I start to try and sort out the aligment
problems.

The worst things about these machines that I have been assigned is that
they have been abused and neglected over the years. Yet I find I can
still do useful work with them.

The manual says to anchor and level the machine to the floor.

Everything I have ever read on lathe setup says that machine tools
should be anchored and leveled to a solid floor. ( A machinist from the
USN says they used to weld their tools to the deck plates... but that
was a rather special situation I think ;-))

My high school machine shop (Berkeley High, Berkeley CA) had over a
dozen lathes. Most were mounted in two rows well away from the walls.
There were work benches and cabinets along the walls. All of the smaller
lathes (12" or less swing) were angled at about 60 degrees to the wall
(closest wall to back of lathe was the included angle). The big lathes
(Hardinge and Reed-Prentice) were at right angles to the walls and at
least as far as the lathe was long. It was a big shop. Very roomy and
well lit. Oh how I miss it.

I like the angle-from-wall idea with the tailstock closest to the wall.
I may move it out far enough to put benches and cabinets along the wall
space it used to occupy.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

-DU-...etc...

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:11:15 -0500, David Utidjian
wrote:

Most of my customers shops have the tailstocks at the wall..with the
lathe at a 45' angle for this reason. Gives a bit more floor space
than a true 90

Gunner

Thanks for the pointers.

A few comments:

As I understand it OSHA requires that machine tools be anchored to the
floor. This shop is in a small state college in New Jersey. I am
required to comply


blink blink...most lathes, such as virtually ALL Hardinges..have
absolutely NO provision for bolting to the floor. In fact..the only
machines Ive ever seen bolted to the floor were bar feeders attached
to lathes (and special provisions had to be made for most of those
lathes to be bolted down..IE welding tabs on the bases and I dont
think Ive ever seen a mill of any type bolted down.

Shears, power brakes and stuff that have a hell of a lot of gross
physical movement..yes indeed. But..damed little else

And Im a professional machine tool mechanic. Its how I make my biscuts
and gravy.

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

Gunner wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:11:15 -0500, David Utidjian
wrote:


Most of my customers shops have the tailstocks at the wall..with the
lathe at a 45' angle for this reason. Gives a bit more floor space
than a true 90

Gunner

Thanks for the pointers.

A few comments:

As I understand it OSHA requires that machine tools be anchored to the
floor. This shop is in a small state college in New Jersey. I am
required to comply



blink blink...most lathes, such as virtually ALL Hardinges..have
absolutely NO provision for bolting to the floor. In fact..the only
machines Ive ever seen bolted to the floor were bar feeders attached
to lathes (and special provisions had to be made for most of those
lathes to be bolted down..IE welding tabs on the bases and I dont
think Ive ever seen a mill of any type bolted down.

I am not making this up.
See: http://tinyurl.com/mghf2


You may have the luxury of ignoring 1910.212(b) but I do not.

Shears, power brakes and stuff that have a hell of a lot of gross
physical movement..yes indeed. But..damed little else

To that I would add machines that are top heavy- drill presses, pedestal
grinders, some hydraulic presses, and anything where the machine is
rather heavy relative to the mass of the stand it is mounted on. Also
machines that may have large horizontal forces applied (whether designed
to or not) such as table saws, tubing and bar benders, polishers and
grinders, planers and sanders... I know many of them are designed to be
portable and can have quite spindly bases.

All of the machine tools and power tools we have in this shop that are
designed for a fixed location have provisions in the base for bolting
them to the floor... lathe, drill presses, band saw, horizontal mill,
vertical mill, pedestal grinder, belt sander... all have holes in the
base and all the manuals say to bolt them to the floor. All of these
machine tools and their manuals are circa the early 1970s.

And Im a professional machine tool mechanic. Its how I make my biscuts
and gravy.

I'm certainly not going to question your status or professionalism...
however... if we contracted you to install the machines in this shop it
would be specified that it would have to be in compliance with current
OSHA regulations. If the tools are designed for a fixed location and
were not all anchored as required in OSHA 1910.212(b) you would not get
paid because you had failed to fulfill your part of the contract.

That said... some of the aftermarket "guards" that they asked me to
install on the drill-presses were worse than nothing. (They meaning the
people whos job it is to oversee "safety" at my work). Crappy little
plastic shrapnel generators would be the kindest description. They
completely ignored the biggest hazard that I know of in general drill
press work... proper work holding fixtures for sheet metal, plastic and
wood.

Thanks again for your advice and experience.

-DU-...etc...

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:02:27 GMT, Gunner wrote:



blink blink...most lathes, such as virtually ALL Hardinges..have
absolutely NO provision for bolting to the floor. In fact..the only
machines Ive ever seen bolted to the floor were bar feeders attached
to lathes (and special provisions had to be made for most of those
lathes to be bolted down..IE welding tabs on the bases and I dont
think Ive ever seen a mill of any type bolted down.

Shears, power brakes and stuff that have a hell of a lot of gross
physical movement..yes indeed. But..damed little else

And Im a professional machine tool mechanic. Its how I make my biscuts
and gravy.

Gunner



Different courses for different horses... Not only are all our lathes and
mills at work bolted to the floor, but all except the little ones have
integral foundations cast into the floor.

If it's got bolt holes, bolt it down and grout it in. If it's got feet (like a
Hardinge cabinet) then give it somewhere flat and clean to stand on them.

(this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it ;-)
Mark Rand
RTFM

David Utidjian wrote:
Gunner wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:11:15 -0500, David Utidjian
wrote:


Most of my customers shops have the tailstocks at the wall..with the
lathe at a 45' angle for this reason. Gives a bit more floor space
than a true 90

Gunner

Thanks for the pointers.

A few comments:

As I understand it OSHA requires that machine tools be anchored to the
floor. This shop is in a small state college in New Jersey. I am
required to comply



blink blink...most lathes, such as virtually ALL Hardinges..have
absolutely NO provision for bolting to the floor. In fact..the only
machines Ive ever seen bolted to the floor were bar feeders attached
to lathes (and special provisions had to be made for most of those
lathes to be bolted down..IE welding tabs on the bases and I dont
think Ive ever seen a mill of any type bolted down.

I am not making this up.
See: http://tinyurl.com/mghf2


You may have the luxury of ignoring 1910.212(b) but I do not.

Shears, power brakes and stuff that have a hell of a lot of gross
physical movement..yes indeed. But..damed little else

To that I would add machines that are top heavy- drill presses, pedestal
grinders, some hydraulic presses, and anything where the machine is
rather heavy relative to the mass of the stand it is mounted on. Also
machines that may have large horizontal forces applied (whether designed
to or not) such as table saws, tubing and bar benders, polishers and
grinders, planers and sanders... I know many of them are designed to be
portable and can have quite spindly bases.

All of the machine tools and power tools we have in this shop that are
designed for a fixed location have provisions in the base for bolting
them to the floor... lathe, drill presses, band saw, horizontal mill,
vertical mill, pedestal grinder, belt sander... all have holes in the
base and all the manuals say to bolt them to the floor. All of these
machine tools and their manuals are circa the early 1970s.

And Im a professional machine tool mechanic. Its how I make my biscuts
and gravy.

I'm certainly not going to question your status or professionalism...
however... if we contracted you to install the machines in this shop it
would be specified that it would have to be in compliance with current
OSHA regulations. If the tools are designed for a fixed location and
were not all anchored as required in OSHA 1910.212(b) you would not get
paid because you had failed to fulfill your part of the contract.

That said... some of the aftermarket "guards" that they asked me to
install on the drill-presses were worse than nothing. (They meaning the
people whos job it is to oversee "safety" at my work). Crappy little
plastic shrapnel generators would be the kindest description. They
completely ignored the biggest hazard that I know of in general drill
press work... proper work holding fixtures for sheet metal, plastic and
wood.

Thanks again for your advice and experience.

-DU-...etc...

I doubt anyone would suggest you'd made anything up however here's my
take:

During 13 years of machinery moving I never heard of a company being
cited for not having machines fastened to the floor although easily 75%
of the machines we installed and removed had no such fastening.

During 8 years of machine rebuilding and sales the results were
comparable. In fact fastening a precision machine downward is almost
sure to affect it's accuracy in a negative way, hence the main reason
(in my book) for not fastening.

During almost 23 years with a machinery manufacturer in production (3
years) and service departments (20 years), working with customer's
problems (thousands of installed machines out there), the ONLY time
fastening to the floor was required by inspectors, was in the San
Diego, CA area and was due to earthquake ordinances.

If this was considered either an standard OSHA issue or an insurance
company issue I would have heard about it immediately from any new
machine buyer.

That being said there had been a few calls by people who had OSHA
comment about machine movement and asked that it be corrected. This
tells me the interpretation by OSHA is "If it ain't broken (not moving)
don't fix it".

If you want to fasten a machine down, at the feet, just try not to put
ANY stress on it. In fact isn't there provision for leveling between
the bed and stand? The stand is built with relatively little precision
and is probably subject to a lot of expansion and contraction. I'd
suggest putting nothing under the feet (and no tools of hardware can
get under) and just do a good job on the bed.

dennis
in nca
(also known as "know-it-all")

David Utidjian wrote:

Gunner wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:11:15 -0500, David Utidjian
wrote:


Most of my customers shops have the tailstocks at the wall..with the
lathe at a 45' angle for this reason. Gives a bit more floor space
than a true 90

Gunner

Thanks for the pointers.

A few comments:

As I understand it OSHA requires that machine tools be anchored to the
floor. This shop is in a small state college in New Jersey. I am
required to comply



blink blink...most lathes, such as virtually ALL Hardinges..have
absolutely NO provision for bolting to the floor. In fact..the only
machines Ive ever seen bolted to the floor were bar feeders attached
to lathes (and special provisions had to be made for most of those
lathes to be bolted down..IE welding tabs on the bases and I dont
think Ive ever seen a mill of any type bolted down.

I am not making this up.
See: http://tinyurl.com/mghf2

You may have the luxury of ignoring 1910.212(b) but I do not.

Shears, power brakes and stuff that have a hell of a lot of gross
physical movement..yes indeed. But..damed little else

To that I would add machines that are top heavy- drill presses, pedestal
grinders, some hydraulic presses, and anything where the machine is
rather heavy relative to the mass of the stand it is mounted on. Also
machines that may have large horizontal forces applied (whether designed
to or not) such as table saws, tubing and bar benders, polishers and
grinders, planers and sanders... I know many of them are designed to be
portable and can have quite spindly bases.

All of the machine tools and power tools we have in this shop that are
designed for a fixed location have provisions in the base for bolting
them to the floor... lathe, drill presses, band saw, horizontal mill,
vertical mill, pedestal grinder, belt sander... all have holes in the
base and all the manuals say to bolt them to the floor. All of these
machine tools and their manuals are circa the early 1970s.

And Im a professional machine tool mechanic. Its how I make my biscuts
and gravy.

I'm certainly not going to question your status or professionalism...
however... if we contracted you to install the machines in this shop it
would be specified that it would have to be in compliance with current
OSHA regulations. If the tools are designed for a fixed location and
were not all anchored as required in OSHA 1910.212(b) you would not get
paid because you had failed to fulfill your part of the contract.

That said... some of the aftermarket "guards" that they asked me to
install on the drill-presses were worse than nothing. (They meaning the
people whos job it is to oversee "safety" at my work). Crappy little
plastic shrapnel generators would be the kindest description. They
completely ignored the biggest hazard that I know of in general drill
press work... proper work holding fixtures for sheet metal, plastic and
wood.

Thanks again for your advice and experience.

-DU-...etc...



The some of the smaller machines don't have provision for bolting them
to the floor but all the bigger ones ive worked on do have leveling
bolts and provision to anchor the machine to the floor. The ones that
arent anchored are the ones that don't cut straight.


John

One of the possibles - have the bolts in the floor - and through the equipment with
nuts on - but not tightened onto the metal. e.g. trapped from walking or bucking - e.g.
safe from problems - but not torking the frame out of shape as it flexes in temperature
during a season or day.

Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



David Utidjian wrote:
Gunner wrote:

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:02:21 -0800, Grant Erwin
wrote:


David Utidjian wrote:


I need to anchor a 9"swing 40" long bed (with cabinet base) Rockwell
lathe to a concrete floor. I need to make it as level as possible
and then level the bed. There are level adjusting nuts and screws
between the cast iron bed and the cabinet.
The cabinet has 1/2" diameter holes in 4 tabs at its base.
The floor is well cured smooth flat concrete (poured about 30 years
ago). I have a Starrett No. 199 Master Precision Level for the final
leveling.

My plan was to use 3/8" X 3 3/4" "redhead" or "ramset" anchors and
those automotive shims that are about 1" square with U slots in them
as the levelling shims.

Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Are there better tricks for getting the cabinet level than jamming
in shims?
Would 3/8" be strong enough? Would(approx) 3" of the bolt below
grade be deep enough?

I was thinking since the bolts will actually be studs and if I have
enough thread above grade I could first put a big washer and nut to
secure the stud in the concrete and then add another nut and washer
as a "jack" then comes the tab on the cabinet base and then a final
washer and nut. Of course this arrangement would raise the cabinet
tabs at least the thickness of two nuts and two washers above the
floor surface. I would also make leveling MUCH easier. Does that
sound like a reasonable idea? Should I go with the full 1/2" anchors
instead of 3/8"?

Also... currently the lathe is about 6" from a cinderbock wall.
Makes it damn difficult to clean behind it. Since I have a lot of
room to play with how much clearance from the wall would be a good
idea? Just enough to walk around it easily?

Since this is my first time setting up such a (relatively) large
machine and since concrete anchor bolts are rather permanent I would
like to do it right the first time.

-DU-...etc...


I would not anchor the machine to a really flat floor; just move it
to where you want it, and level it.

I have given thought to how to orient a lathe in a small shop, and I
now suggest that you have it coming out 90° from a wall, with the
tailstock end towards the wall, spaced out far enough from the wall
so that you can get around behind the tailstock to squint at the
marking for when you are adjusting tailstock setover. It's bad news
to put the headstock end towards the wall, because that interferes
with passing long stock through the headstock. Nor do I like having
the back of the machine face the wall as I have to get back there to
clean chips and also to look carefully at the scribed degree markings
on the compound, or to monkey around with the motor.

GWE




Most of my customers shops have the tailstocks at the wall..with the
lathe at a 45' angle for this reason. Gives a bit more floor space
than a true 90

Gunner


Thanks for the pointers.

A few comments:

As I understand it OSHA requires that machine tools be anchored to the
floor. This shop is in a small state college in New Jersey. I am
required to comply. With that said... none of the machine tools have
been anchored since installed about 30 years ago. I am having problems
with this lathe. It seems that the centerline of the tailstock is 0.005"
lower than the centerline of the headstock. Seems to me that I should
anchor it and level it _before_ I start to try and sort out the aligment
problems.

The worst things about these machines that I have been assigned is that
they have been abused and neglected over the years. Yet I find I can
still do useful work with them.

The manual says to anchor and level the machine to the floor.

Everything I have ever read on lathe setup says that machine tools
should be anchored and leveled to a solid floor. ( A machinist from the
USN says they used to weld their tools to the deck plates... but that
was a rather special situation I think ;-))

My high school machine shop (Berkeley High, Berkeley CA) had over a
dozen lathes. Most were mounted in two rows well away from the walls.
There were work benches and cabinets along the walls. All of the smaller
lathes (12" or less swing) were angled at about 60 degrees to the wall
(closest wall to back of lathe was the included angle). The big lathes
(Hardinge and Reed-Prentice) were at right angles to the walls and at
least as far as the lathe was long. It was a big shop. Very roomy and
well lit. Oh how I miss it.

I like the angle-from-wall idea with the tailstock closest to the wall.
I may move it out far enough to put benches and cabinets along the wall
space it used to occupy.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

-DU-...etc...

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Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
One of the possibles - have the bolts in the floor - and through the
equipment with
nuts on - but not tightened onto the metal. e.g. trapped from walking
or bucking - e.g.
safe from problems - but not torking the frame out of shape as it flexes
in temperature
during a season or day.


That is a good idea Martin.

The room these machines are in is temperature controlled. Over a year it
does not vary much more than 10 degrees F. By my estimation the length
of the cabinet will vary by about 0.00584" for a temperature change of
20 degrees F. The cast iron lathe bed by about 0.00472" and the concrete
floor by about 0.0064" over the distance between mount points. The
difference in length change is greatest between the cabinet and the
bed... about twice that of cabinet and concrete. Naturally the actual
geometry of the interactions can make a much larger change in alignments.

The way the bed is mounted to the cabinet appears to be designed so
there can be some variation in the distances between mount points over
time and temperature. Each mount point has an externally threaded
bushing. The external thread on the bushing mates with internal threads
on the actual bed of the lathe. The threads on the bed of the lathe pass
right through to the underside of the bed. Then there are bolts that
pass through the top of the bushing, down through the bed, through the
cabinet top with nuts and lockwashers underneath. There is some
clearance around these bolts and the ID of the bushings they pass
through. The leveling of the bed is done by screwing the bushings up or
down as required.

The manual from the manufacturer for this lathe claims that alignment
was done at the factory before shipping by mounting and leveling the
cabinet properly and then leveling the bed.

The bolts I was intending to use for mounting the cabinet to the floor
will be smaller than the holes of the mounting tabs on the cabinet. 1/2"
holes and 3/8" bolts. I could use 1/2" bolts as the holes are slightly
larger than 1/2" some are even elongated but I don't think I can drill
the holes in the concrete that accurately.

Seems to me that experience, opinion, and practice is mixed on whether
to mount the lathe to the floor at all.
Personally, I want to do the method that gives me the most precision.
Practically, I have to do the method that I am required to do which is
bolt the machines down.
This isn't a home or privately owned shop.

Thanks again for your suggestion.

-DU-...etc...

rigger wrote:


David Utidjian wrote:
Gunner wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:11:15 -0500, David Utidjian
wrote:


Most of my customers shops have the tailstocks at the wall..with the
lathe at a 45' angle for this reason. Gives a bit more floor space
than a true 90

Gunner

Thanks for the pointers.

A few comments:

As I understand it OSHA requires that machine tools be anchored to the
floor. This shop is in a small state college in New Jersey. I am
required to comply



blink blink...most lathes, such as virtually ALL Hardinges..have
absolutely NO provision for bolting to the floor. In fact..the only
machines Ive ever seen bolted to the floor were bar feeders attached
to lathes (and special provisions had to be made for most of those
lathes to be bolted down..IE welding tabs on the bases and I dont
think Ive ever seen a mill of any type bolted down.

I am not making this up.
See: http://tinyurl.com/mghf2


You may have the luxury of ignoring 1910.212(b) but I do not.

Shears, power brakes and stuff that have a hell of a lot of gross
physical movement..yes indeed. But..damed little else

To that I would add machines that are top heavy- drill presses, pedestal
grinders, some hydraulic presses, and anything where the machine is
rather heavy relative to the mass of the stand it is mounted on. Also
machines that may have large horizontal forces applied (whether designed
to or not) such as table saws, tubing and bar benders, polishers and
grinders, planers and sanders... I know many of them are designed to be
portable and can have quite spindly bases.

All of the machine tools and power tools we have in this shop that are
designed for a fixed location have provisions in the base for bolting
them to the floor... lathe, drill presses, band saw, horizontal mill,
vertical mill, pedestal grinder, belt sander... all have holes in the
base and all the manuals say to bolt them to the floor. All of these
machine tools and their manuals are circa the early 1970s.

And Im a professional machine tool mechanic. Its how I make my biscuts
and gravy.

I'm certainly not going to question your status or professionalism...
however... if we contracted you to install the machines in this shop it
would be specified that it would have to be in compliance with current
OSHA regulations. If the tools are designed for a fixed location and
were not all anchored as required in OSHA 1910.212(b) you would not get
paid because you had failed to fulfill your part of the contract.

That said... some of the aftermarket "guards" that they asked me to
install on the drill-presses were worse than nothing. (They meaning the
people whos job it is to oversee "safety" at my work). Crappy little
plastic shrapnel generators would be the kindest description. They
completely ignored the biggest hazard that I know of in general drill
press work... proper work holding fixtures for sheet metal, plastic and
wood.

Thanks again for your advice and experience.

-DU-...etc...

I doubt anyone would suggest you'd made anything up however here's my
take:

During 13 years of machinery moving I never heard of a company being
cited for not having machines fastened to the floor although easily 75%
of the machines we installed and removed had no such fastening.

During 8 years of machine rebuilding and sales the results were
comparable. In fact fastening a precision machine downward is almost
sure to affect it's accuracy in a negative way, hence the main reason
(in my book) for not fastening.

During almost 23 years with a machinery manufacturer in production (3
years) and service departments (20 years), working with customer's
problems (thousands of installed machines out there), the ONLY time
fastening to the floor was required by inspectors, was in the San
Diego, CA area and was due to earthquake ordinances.

If this was considered either an standard OSHA issue or an insurance
company issue I would have heard about it immediately from any new
machine buyer.

That being said there had been a few calls by people who had OSHA
comment about machine movement and asked that it be corrected. This
tells me the interpretation by OSHA is "If it ain't broken (not moving)
don't fix it".

If you want to fasten a machine down, at the feet, just try not to put
ANY stress on it. In fact isn't there provision for leveling between
the bed and stand? The stand is built with relatively little precision
and is probably subject to a lot of expansion and contraction. I'd
suggest putting nothing under the feet (and no tools of hardware can
get under) and just do a good job on the bed.

The question is whether you have to satisfy the OSHA people or the company's
safety engineer, who may have a different view of the regs. I remember one
place I worked the safety engineer required that elaborate guards be put on
a press that had been there since before WWII with no injuries in all that
time. After the guards were installed they had five injuries in the next
two years all associated with the guards.

This same safety engineer wouldn't issue a respirator to a guy spraying
urethane because according to her elaborate air quality measurements that
probably cost ten times as much as the respirator the guy didn't need one.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 02:10:44 -0500, David Utidjian
wrote:

Gunner wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:11:15 -0500, David Utidjian
wrote:


Most of my customers shops have the tailstocks at the wall..with the
lathe at a 45' angle for this reason. Gives a bit more floor space
than a true 90

Gunner

Thanks for the pointers.

A few comments:

As I understand it OSHA requires that machine tools be anchored to the
floor. This shop is in a small state college in New Jersey. I am
required to comply



blink blink...most lathes, such as virtually ALL Hardinges..have
absolutely NO provision for bolting to the floor. In fact..the only
machines Ive ever seen bolted to the floor were bar feeders attached
to lathes (and special provisions had to be made for most of those
lathes to be bolted down..IE welding tabs on the bases and I dont
think Ive ever seen a mill of any type bolted down.

I am not making this up.
See: http://tinyurl.com/mghf2


You may have the luxury of ignoring 1910.212(b) but I do not.
snip

This is the exact wording:

"1910.212(b)
Anchoring fixed machinery. Machines designed for a fixed
location shall be securely anchored to prevent walking or
moving."

I think this leaves some wiggle room . Add a pair of wheels
to the headstock end that just barely clear the floor. If
any questions come up, say the machines are meant to be
moved/shifted from time to time depending on how they will
be used...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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