Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old February 25th 06, 05:19 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
~Roy~
 
Posts: n/a
Default Enclosure for electronic speed controller ????

I lucked up and found a source for KB Electronic DC controllers
locally that will sell to me wholesale. I had been going to buy one
controller in particular, that was already in an enclosure, but he
explained to me that I would be ahead in the long run buying another
model with the factory installed heatsink etc already on it, as it was
better than the ones yu could add a heat sink to as the components in
the chassis type had the items needing cooling already attached to the
heat sink, instead of just placing a heat sink against the enclosure
box itself.

So I bought the chassis type, but need to make a box for it. I plan on
making the box out of acrylic plastic, with the back of the box cutout
to allow heat sink to extend throuh outside of the box for cooling. Do
you think it would be a good idea to add perhaps a 1 1/2" muffin fan
or even a 3" muffin type fan to this acrylic box to pull air over the
internals that the box is now enclosing and duct it oput down and over
the heat sink? Or should I be able to just enclose the chassis and
have the heat sink exposed to ambient air for cooling? I do need to
enclose it as its going to be mounted in the lower section of my 20"
bandsaws base cabinet, which does get dust etc in it. I plan on
relocating the speed pot to the front of the saw for easy access just
like my old controller had..... HOw much space should I leave around
the chassis for air flow etc? I am driving a 1.5hp 107VAC 15 amp DC
motor.

Any suggestions appreciated.

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

  #2   Report Post  
Old February 25th 06, 05:31 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Wayne
 
Posts: n/a
Default Enclosure for electronic speed controller ????

Any particular reason you need an enclosure for it?

I've got a KB VFD and was going to put in an enclosure.
It sounds similiar to your DC controller. It has a big heat
sink in the back. The wiring goes through knock outs, so there are
no exposed connections. Mine is mounted on the wall so
under a cabinet so nothing can fall into it. I mounted a
piece of plexiglass on the wall and cabinet at an angle
so the lathe can't throw anything at it. That save me
from having to buy the remote panel kit. Of course if
yours have exposed connections it will need an enclosure.

Wayne D.

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 16:19:32 GMT, ~Roy~ wrote:

I lucked up and found a source for KB Electronic DC controllers
locally that will sell to me wholesale. I had been going to buy one
controller in particular, that was already in an enclosure, but he
explained to me that I would be ahead in the long run buying another
model with the factory installed heatsink etc already on it, as it was
better than the ones yu could add a heat sink to as the components in
the chassis type had the items needing cooling already attached to the
heat sink, instead of just placing a heat sink against the enclosure
box itself.

So I bought the chassis type, but need to make a box for it. I plan on
making the box out of acrylic plastic, with the back of the box cutout
to allow heat sink to extend throuh outside of the box for cooling. Do
you think it would be a good idea to add perhaps a 1 1/2" muffin fan
or even a 3" muffin type fan to this acrylic box to pull air over the
internals that the box is now enclosing and duct it oput down and over
the heat sink? Or should I be able to just enclose the chassis and
have the heat sink exposed to ambient air for cooling? I do need to
enclose it as its going to be mounted in the lower section of my 20"
bandsaws base cabinet, which does get dust etc in it. I plan on
relocating the speed pot to the front of the saw for easy access just
like my old controller had..... HOw much space should I leave around
the chassis for air flow etc? I am driving a 1.5hp 107VAC 15 amp DC
motor.

Any suggestions appreciated.


  #3   Report Post  
Old February 25th 06, 06:10 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Al MacDonald
 
Posts: n/a
Default Enclosure for electronic speed controller ????

I bought a used DC controller off ebay for use with a 1.5hp 180v DC
permanent magnet Baldor, doing a retrofit on an old, cheap offshore BP
knockoff. The same controller could run a 90v DC motor and/or one with
field windings. Finally I can go slow enough! I was worried about metal
chips, etc. getting onto the controller but I was also worried about
cooling, as it didn't have an integral fan. I ended up mounting it in an
old steel electrical disconnect panel, which I put on the wall near the
input plug in.... well away from the mill and small chips (or dust in your
case).... and ran the motor power cable and low voltage control wires up to
the mill. I added an electronic tach also, so my control box on the mill
has start/stop, fwd/rev, variable speed pot, coolant switch and the tach
readout. The surface area of the metal box increases the heat sink
capability and I've had no problem with heat. I have a couple of VFDs good
up to 3hp that incorporate built-in fans already. The smaller hp models of
the same brand name don't have the fans.

al.

I recently bought a second new controller (off ebay) to run a duplicate
motor I have. It also has no cooling fan.
"~Roy~" wrote in message
...
I lucked up and found a source for KB Electronic DC controllers
locally that will sell to me wholesale. I had been going to buy one
controller in particular, that was already in an enclosure, but he
explained to me that I would be ahead in the long run buying another
model with the factory installed heatsink etc already on it, as it was
better than the ones yu could add a heat sink to as the components in
the chassis type had the items needing cooling already attached to the
heat sink, instead of just placing a heat sink against the enclosure
box itself.

So I bought the chassis type, but need to make a box for it. I plan on
making the box out of acrylic plastic, with the back of the box cutout
to allow heat sink to extend throuh outside of the box for cooling. Do
you think it would be a good idea to add perhaps a 1 1/2" muffin fan
or even a 3" muffin type fan to this acrylic box to pull air over the
internals that the box is now enclosing and duct it oput down and over
the heat sink? Or should I be able to just enclose the chassis and
have the heat sink exposed to ambient air for cooling? I do need to
enclose it as its going to be mounted in the lower section of my 20"
bandsaws base cabinet, which does get dust etc in it. I plan on
relocating the speed pot to the front of the saw for easy access just
like my old controller had..... HOw much space should I leave around
the chassis for air flow etc? I am driving a 1.5hp 107VAC 15 amp DC
motor.

Any suggestions appreciated.

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....



  #4   Report Post  
Old February 25th 06, 06:56 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
~Roy~
 
Posts: n/a
Default Enclosure for electronic speed controller ????


Well I have a box full of all kinds of muffin fans, some 120VAC and
others a mix of varous DC voltages, and installing a fan in a acrylic
enclosure would not incurr any additional $$, and can only be an
additional benefit since heat is a killer of electronics. I am just
thinking of how much space I need to allow around the enclosure I
make. I am sort of limited in space as to where it will be mounted,
and its certainly not the cleanest environment, so thats why I was
thinking adding a fan with filter for the internals in additon to
relying on the heatsink which will stick out the back of the
enclosure. I intend to make the lid sealed with a rubber gasket to
further keep chips etc out of it, so a typical electrical panel type
box would not be suitable. unless it wa a standard enclosure with no
knock outs etc that was designed to be totally water resistemnt.

My chassis is 2" high from the back plate, (not counting the heat sink
out the back as its not going to be included in the box) and measures
6.25" x 5.65" in size,. So do you think an enclosure with 1" space
all aroond the chassis itself would be ok? 8.25" x 7.65" x 3".

I am thinking of pulling air through the enclosures bottom through a
filter and directing the exhaust out and over the heat sink on the
back. Probably overkill but I want to ensure the controller has a
decent environement. Instalal insturctions are quite bland in mounting
it other than saying it needs to be in a place with no chance of dirt
and liquids getting on it........nothing in reagds to how much space
needs to be around it.


On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 10:10:40 -0700, "Al MacDonald"
wrote:
I bought a used DC controller off ebay for use with a 1.5hp 180v DC
permanent magnet Baldor, doing a retrofit on an old, cheap offshore BP
knockoff. The same controller could run a 90v DC motor and/or one with
field windings. Finally I can go slow enough! I was worried about metal
chips, etc. getting onto the controller but I was also worried about
cooling, as it didn't have an integral fan. I ended up mounting it in an
old steel electrical disconnect panel, which I put on the wall near the
input plug in.... well away from the mill and small chips (or dust in your
case).... and ran the motor power cable and low voltage control wires up to
the mill. I added an electronic tach also, so my control box on the mill
has start/stop, fwd/rev, variable speed pot, coolant switch and the tach
readout. The surface area of the metal box increases the heat sink
capability and I've had no problem with heat. I have a couple of VFDs good
up to 3hp that incorporate built-in fans already. The smaller hp models of
the same brand name don't have the fans.

al.

I recently bought a second new controller (off ebay) to run a duplicate
motor I have. It also has no cooling fan.
"~Roy~" wrote in message
. ..
I lucked up and found a source for KB Electronic DC controllers
locally that will sell to me wholesale. I had been going to buy one
controller in particular, that was already in an enclosure, but he
explained to me that I would be ahead in the long run buying another
model with the factory installed heatsink etc already on it, as it was
better than the ones yu could add a heat sink to as the components in
the chassis type had the items needing cooling already attached to the
heat sink, instead of just placing a heat sink against the enclosure
box itself.

So I bought the chassis type, but need to make a box for it. I plan on
making the box out of acrylic plastic, with the back of the box cutout
to allow heat sink to extend throuh outside of the box for cooling. Do
you think it would be a good idea to add perhaps a 1 1/2" muffin fan
or even a 3" muffin type fan to this acrylic box to pull air over the
internals that the box is now enclosing and duct it oput down and over
the heat sink? Or should I be able to just enclose the chassis and
have the heat sink exposed to ambient air for cooling? I do need to
enclose it as its going to be mounted in the lower section of my 20"
bandsaws base cabinet, which does get dust etc in it. I plan on
relocating the speed pot to the front of the saw for easy access just
like my old controller had..... HOw much space should I leave around
the chassis for air flow etc? I am driving a 1.5hp 107VAC 15 amp DC
motor.

Any suggestions appreciated.

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....


--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....
  #5   Report Post  
Old February 25th 06, 09:08 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Wayne
 
Posts: n/a
Default Enclosure for electronic speed controller ????

The volume of air in the enclosure is irrelevant. What
you want to avoid is heat buildup in any part of the
controller. So if you flow enough air in and out
of the enclosure, the temperature in the enclosure
will be the same as the abient temperature outside the
enclosure. So air flow over the heat sink is important.
If there are vent holes in the controller for the rest of the
electronics, make sure air flows there also. Otherwise make sure
there is enough airflow around the whole controller to avoid
heat buildup inside the controller.

Wayne D.

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:56:58 GMT, ~Roy~ wrote:

Well I have a box full of all kinds of muffin fans, some 120VAC and
others a mix of varous DC voltages, and installing a fan in a acrylic
enclosure would not incurr any additional $$, and can only be an
additional benefit since heat is a killer of electronics. I am just
thinking of how much space I need to allow around the enclosure I
make. I am sort of limited in space as to where it will be mounted,
and its certainly not the cleanest environment, so thats why I was
thinking adding a fan with filter for the internals in additon to
relying on the heatsink which will stick out the back of the
enclosure. I intend to make the lid sealed with a rubber gasket to
further keep chips etc out of it, so a typical electrical panel type
box would not be suitable. unless it wa a standard enclosure with no
knock outs etc that was designed to be totally water resistemnt.
My chassis is 2" high from the back plate, (not counting the heat sink
out the back as its not going to be included in the box) and measures
6.25" x 5.65" in size,. So do you think an enclosure with 1" space
all aroond the chassis itself would be ok? 8.25" x 7.65" x 3".
I am thinking of pulling air through the enclosures bottom through a
filter and directing the exhaust out and over the heat sink on the
back. Probably overkill but I want to ensure the controller has a
decent environement. Instalal insturctions are quite bland in mounting
it other than saying it needs to be in a place with no chance of dirt
and liquids getting on it........nothing in reagds to how much space
needs to be around it.




  #6   Report Post  
Old February 26th 06, 04:29 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Pete Keillor
 
Posts: n/a
Default Enclosure for electronic speed controller ????

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 14:08:14 -0600, Wayne
wrote:

The volume of air in the enclosure is irrelevant. What
you want to avoid is heat buildup in any part of the
controller. So if you flow enough air in and out
of the enclosure, the temperature in the enclosure
will be the same as the abient temperature outside the
enclosure. So air flow over the heat sink is important.
If there are vent holes in the controller for the rest of the
electronics, make sure air flows there also. Otherwise make sure
there is enough airflow around the whole controller to avoid
heat buildup inside the controller.

Wayne D.

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:56:58 GMT, ~Roy~ wrote:

Well I have a box full of all kinds of muffin fans, some 120VAC and

snip

I put lots of vfd's in enclosures. Some are in classified areas,
others aren't. I use a free download from Hoffman to calculate
whether or not I'll have a problem. Here's the link:
http://www.hoffmanonline.com/Technic...adTherSoft.htm

Most of the time, it's not a problem, plus I monitor and alarm the
heat sink temperatures in my control software. Larger drives, or lots
of drives in one cabinet require more cooling.

In my Z-purged enclosures (flammable areas) I usually use a water
cooled heat exchanger. Just don't allow it to freeze. When we
shipped some skids back from out of state, the guys prepping for the
move didn't blow out the exchangers, so they froze and I had up to
three inches of water in a box with a bunch of electronics. We had to
drain the swamp then dry the boxes with fans. Actually, we didn't
lose anything except the exchangers themselves.

Pete Keillor
  #7   Report Post  
Old February 26th 06, 04:35 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Pete Keillor
 
Posts: n/a
Default Enclosure for electronic speed controller ????

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 22:29:52 -0500, Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 14:08:14 -0600, Wayne
wrote:

The volume of air in the enclosure is irrelevant. What
you want to avoid is heat buildup in any part of the
controller. So if you flow enough air in and out
of the enclosure, the temperature in the enclosure
will be the same as the abient temperature outside the
enclosure. So air flow over the heat sink is important.
If there are vent holes in the controller for the rest of the
electronics, make sure air flows there also. Otherwise make sure
there is enough airflow around the whole controller to avoid
heat buildup inside the controller.

Wayne D.

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:56:58 GMT, ~Roy~ wrote:

Well I have a box full of all kinds of muffin fans, some 120VAC and

snip

I put lots of vfd's in enclosures. Some are in classified areas,
others aren't. I use a free download from Hoffman to calculate
whether or not I'll have a problem. Here's the link:
http://www.hoffmanonline.com/Technic...adTherSoft.htm

Most of the time, it's not a problem, plus I monitor and alarm the
heat sink temperatures in my control software. Larger drives, or lots
of drives in one cabinet require more cooling.

In my Z-purged enclosures (flammable areas) I usually use a water
cooled heat exchanger. Just don't allow it to freeze. When we
shipped some skids back from out of state, the guys prepping for the
move didn't blow out the exchangers, so they froze and I had up to
three inches of water in a box with a bunch of electronics. We had to
drain the swamp then dry the boxes with fans. Actually, we didn't
lose anything except the exchangers themselves.

Pete Keillor



I thought I'd add that most of the older drives (AB 1336's) are
electrically noisy if you're doing networking and I/O in the same
enclosure. Adding chokes to the motor leads helps. The new drives
(AB Powerflex) are much better shielded, but I usually add chokes to
them, too. I usually avoid doing any I/O in the same enclosure if
possible, but networked drives are nice.

Pete Keillor
  #8   Report Post  
Old February 26th 06, 06:17 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
~Roy~
 
Posts: n/a
Default Enclosure for electronic speed controller ????

Noise probably wil not be an issue with powering a bandsaw.



On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 22:35:55 -0500, Pete Keillor
wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 22:29:52 -0500, Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 14:08:14 -0600, Wayne
wrote:

The volume of air in the enclosure is irrelevant. What
you want to avoid is heat buildup in any part of the
controller. So if you flow enough air in and out
of the enclosure, the temperature in the enclosure
will be the same as the abient temperature outside the
enclosure. So air flow over the heat sink is important.
If there are vent holes in the controller for the rest of the
electronics, make sure air flows there also. Otherwise make sure
there is enough airflow around the whole controller to avoid
heat buildup inside the controller.

Wayne D.

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:56:58 GMT, ~Roy~ wrote:

Well I have a box full of all kinds of muffin fans, some 120VAC and
snip

I put lots of vfd's in enclosures. Some are in classified areas,
others aren't. I use a free download from Hoffman to calculate
whether or not I'll have a problem. Here's the link:
http://www.hoffmanonline.com/Technic...adTherSoft.htm

Most of the time, it's not a problem, plus I monitor and alarm the
heat sink temperatures in my control software. Larger drives, or lots
of drives in one cabinet require more cooling.

In my Z-purged enclosures (flammable areas) I usually use a water
cooled heat exchanger. Just don't allow it to freeze. When we
shipped some skids back from out of state, the guys prepping for the
move didn't blow out the exchangers, so they froze and I had up to
three inches of water in a box with a bunch of electronics. We had to
drain the swamp then dry the boxes with fans. Actually, we didn't
lose anything except the exchangers themselves.

Pete Keillor


I thought I'd add that most of the older drives (AB 1336's) are
electrically noisy if you're doing networking and I/O in the same
enclosure. Adding chokes to the motor leads helps. The new drives
(AB Powerflex) are much better shielded, but I usually add chokes to
them, too. I usually avoid doing any I/O in the same enclosure if
possible, but networked drives are nice.

Pete Keillor


--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....
  #9   Report Post  
Old February 26th 06, 07:10 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
tim
 
Posts: n/a
Default Enclosure for electronic speed controller ????

Hi roy we use about 50 kbic -125s a year who is your source ?

  #10   Report Post  
Old February 26th 06, 04:25 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Wild Bill
 
Posts: n/a
Default Enclosure for electronic speed controller ????

The KBs with a flat (aluminum) mounting plate mount nicely when
fastened to the back of a metal enclosure (heatsink compound applied).
The metal enclosure provides the additional cooling surface.
An optional procedure is to add a large finned heatsink to the back of
the metal enclosure to provide even more heat dissipation (assuming
ambient air is cool).
With the enclosure closed or sealed, the module stays clean and cool.
The KB website may have more info related to mounting and ventilation,
and other drive manufacturers' websites may also.

Generally, the circuit board components don't need cooling in normal
operating conditions, but the components that are fastened to the
heatsink need to have their heat dissipated away from them, into the
area's natural air currents.
With a factory installed finned heatsink, the design includes adequate
heat dissipation from the fins, in most cases, assuming that there is
some air movement over the fins.

A plastic enclosure wouldn't be my first choice for mounting a
power-dissipating circuit, but a small fan for ventilation would be an
appropriate measure.
If you were to ask opinions of whether pushing air in, or drawing air
out, is more effective, I'm sure it would be a lively discussion. I've
seen both of those methods strongly insisted and defended before.

I believe your KB drive has better over-current and current surge
protection than your other drive had. The manufacturer's
installation/setup adjustments should cover the limit adjustments.
Having a amp meter (or a heavy duty current shunt with a meter) to
monitor the load current, for a couple of test runs will allow you to
make sure that the drive is operating within it's intended range.

A GE drive that I have, came with a finned heatsink, but only the SCR
pack was attached to the heatsink, so I cut a clearance hole in the
back of the enclosure, fastened the heatsink to the outside rear
surface of the enclosure, and then re-mounted the SCR pack to the
heatsink as it had been originally mounted. This method ensures that
the circuit is kept clean, and that the power device has better heat
dissipation characteristics, as the metal enclosure effectively
increases the heatsink area.

The KB drive I have, has more than just the power device attached to
the finned heatsink, so I won't be using the same method to enclose it.
When I get around to using it, I'll probably just install it in a
ventilated enclosure, away from sources of stray conductive material. I
don't anticipate that any additional ventilation methods will be
required. A metal box (with louvers, for example) should be adequate,
since almost any environment has naturally occurring air currents.

With the module factory installed on a heatsink, mounted completely
within an unvented enclosure, the enclosure's surface area isn't
effectively coupled to the module's heatsink.
This type of installation should have some type of cooling fan or
cooling air movement added to the enclosure.

WB
...............

~Roy~ wrote:
I lucked up and found a source for KB Electronic DC controllers
locally that will sell to me wholesale. I had been going to buy one
controller in particular, that was already in an enclosure, but he
explained to me that I would be ahead in the long run buying another
model with the factory installed heatsink etc already on it, as it was
better than the ones yu could add a heat sink to as the components in
the chassis type had the items needing cooling already attached to the
heat sink, instead of just placing a heat sink against the enclosure
box itself.

So I bought the chassis type, but need to make a box for it. I plan on
making the box out of acrylic plastic, with the back of the box cutout
to allow heat sink to extend throuh outside of the box for cooling. Do
you think it would be a good idea to add perhaps a 1 1/2" muffin fan
or even a 3" muffin type fan to this acrylic box to pull air over the
internals that the box is now enclosing and duct it oput down and over
the heat sink? Or should I be able to just enclose the chassis and
have the heat sink exposed to ambient air for cooling? I do need to
enclose it as its going to be mounted in the lower section of my 20"
bandsaws base cabinet, which does get dust etc in it. I plan on
relocating the speed pot to the front of the saw for easy access just
like my old controller had..... HOw much space should I leave around
the chassis for air flow etc? I am driving a 1.5hp 107VAC 15 amp DC
motor.

Any suggestions appreciated.




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