OK guys, here is the story. I found a lovely Swedish botanist,
proposed, and now at 43 I'm getting married. We found a great house,
well nearly great. The original part of the house is from 1820 and
it's basement has water seepage into the new (15 year old) walkout 21
x 24 basement. The owner put a trench(french drain) around the
perimeter of the newer slab and a sump pump to get rid of the water.
By close inspection the new part does not seem to have seen any water
on the floor, but the trench certainly has. Don't try to talk my out
of the place that isn't going to happen...What can I do to minimize
the rust effects on my machines and tools down there? De-humidifiers,
heat, ventilation...whatever you have tried and works.

Thanks to all!

Paul

sandiapaul wrote:

OK guys, here is the story. I found a lovely Swedish botanist,
proposed, and now at 43 I'm getting married. We found a great house,
well nearly great. The original part of the house is from 1820 and
it's basement has water seepage into the new (15 year old) walkout 21
x 24 basement. The owner put a trench(french drain) around the
perimeter of the newer slab and a sump pump to get rid of the water.
By close inspection the new part does not seem to have seen any water
on the floor, but the trench certainly has. Don't try to talk my out
of the place that isn't going to happen...What can I do to minimize
the rust effects on my machines and tools down there? De-humidifiers,
heat, ventilation...whatever you have tried and works.

Given your situation, I strongly suggest that
you take up fly-tying or butterfly collecting
and sell all of your machines to us. Cheaply (:

Seriously, you'll never dry out the basement
with dehumidifiers. I fought with a damp concrete
slab in my house and it was a no-win situation.
The dehumidifier pulls gallons and gallons of
water out and it gets replaced just as fast.

You're fighting 2 problems, dampness and mold
and they both need to be addressed. As to the
mold, keep the concrete floor open. No mats,
carpets, cardboard boxes, etc. Don't bother
trying to seal the floor yourself. A pro could
do it, but the price would be outrageous.

As to moisture, try to avoid rapid temperature
changes. Moisture condenses when the air is
warmer than the metal of your machines. So
either work in the cold or keep the room warm
all the time.

Make sure all your bare metal has a good coat
of oil at all times.

To fix the problem get rid of the water. Sound easy?

For surface water, your best bet is to re-grade all around the house so that
water flows away. Also install eaves troughs and put long extensions on the
down-spouts to keep water away.

If it's ground water coming up sell the house and run, yes run away. And
don't bet the farm by relying on a mechanical means of water removal (i.e.
sump pump). They are guaranteed to fail.

Ultimate both can be expensive to fix. You must decide to either live with
a wet basement or move away. He-humidifiers, heat, etc. don't solve the
problem, only hide it temporarily.



"sandiapaul" wrote in message
om...
OK guys, here is the story. I found a lovely Swedish botanist,
proposed, and now at 43 I'm getting married. We found a great house,
well nearly great. The original part of the house is from 1820 and
it's basement has water seepage into the new (15 year old) walkout 21
x 24 basement. The owner put a trench(french drain) around the
perimeter of the newer slab and a sump pump to get rid of the water.
By close inspection the new part does not seem to have seen any water
on the floor, but the trench certainly has. Don't try to talk my out
of the place that isn't going to happen...What can I do to minimize
the rust effects on my machines and tools down there? De-humidifiers,
heat, ventilation...whatever you have tried and works.

Thanks to all!

Paul

On 29 Jan 2004 07:49:11 -0800, the renowned
(sandiapaul) wrote:

OK guys, here is the story. I found a lovely Swedish botanist,
proposed, and now at 43 I'm getting married.

Congratulations.

We found a great house,
well nearly great. The original part of the house is from 1820 and
it's basement has water seepage into the new (15 year old) walkout 21
x 24 basement. The owner put a trench(french drain) around the
perimeter of the newer slab and a sump pump to get rid of the water.
By close inspection the new part does not seem to have seen any water
on the floor, but the trench certainly has. Don't try to talk my out
of the place that isn't going to happen...What can I do to minimize
the rust effects on my machines and tools down there? De-humidifiers,
heat, ventilation...whatever you have tried and works.

Got some guys to inject polyurethane into a couple of cracks along one
wall of our relatively new (10-12 years) house, and it works. The sump
pump runs a lot, especially in the spring, but the basement has stayed
dry for over a year. They drill holes and inject the PU through
nozzles that they leave stuck into the wall.

This would be a GOOD business to go into. The results are good, the
price they charge is HIGH and it doesn't take long for them to do!
Get a good guarantee and make sure they look like they'll be around
for a few years if you go this way, as it sometimes takes another
application to get it all. I don't really know if this is a reasonable
suggestion for a 185 year old house, but they ought to know.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

sandiapaul wrote:
OK guys, here is the story. I found a lovely Swedish botanist,
proposed, and now at 43 I'm getting married. We found a great house,
well nearly great. The original part of the house is from 1820 and
it's basement has water seepage into the new (15 year old) walkout 21
x 24 basement. The owner put a trench(french drain) around the
perimeter of the newer slab and a sump pump to get rid of the water.
By close inspection the new part does not seem to have seen any water
on the floor, but the trench certainly has. Don't try to talk my out
of the place that isn't going to happen...What can I do to minimize
the rust effects on my machines and tools down there? De-humidifiers,
heat, ventilation...whatever you have tried and works.


Ugh! The first part of the story sounds great! Congratulations!
The 2nd part sounds like a horror story, condolences!

I had a house with clay tile foundation that leaked like a seive!
Sealing a seive is never going to work, the only hope is to
keep water away from the holes. When I got the place, water shot
in JETS from the walls during heavy rain! It was like some horror
movie. First thing I did was replace the gutters, and install those
4" tubes to carry the water as far away from the foundation as
possible. I then found a "hill" on the side of the house where the
builders dumped all their rubble, and it was filled with chunks of
broken cinderblock. Not knowing how to get rid of the stuff, I
got empty boxes from work, chipped and packed them into the boxes
and put them out with the trash for about 6 months! I used all that
dirt to try to regrade a slope away from the foundation. I had to
go up on the roof and clean the gutters sometimes every 2 weeks.
There were a lot of trees overhanging the roof, and the seeds,
flower bits and leaves would clog up the gutters real quick.
When the gutters overflowed, it went straight into the basement.

OK, enough homeowner stuff. As for the machine tools, I used LPS 1,
a product in some ways similar to WD-40, but I think it works better
for this purpose. I get it in the 20 Oz pump bottle, a lot cheaper
than spray cans. LPS 2 is good for bar stock, angle iron and such,
but leaves a film that you wouldn't want on precision tools.
A dehumidifier in the summer is a good idea, and they cost very little
to run. You probably won't need humidity reduction in the winter,
and they freeze up anyway.

My machines were right next to the back of the furnace, maybe that
had a positive effect, too. Stuff would rust LIKE CRAZY in the
garage, that was always very moist. But, I really didn't have that
much trouble in the actual basement.

Watch out for spills that come down through the main floor. Dirty water is
100 times more powerful as a rusting agent than humidity!

Jon

In article ,
(sandiapaul) wrote:

Don't try to talk my out
of the place that isn't going to happen...

There's a problem. There is always another house, putting blinders on
("falling in love with", etc) when buying is begging to get screwed.
Keep looking and you might find a really nice shop with an acceptable
house, rather than a swamp with a house on it.

What can I do to minimize
the rust effects on my machines and tools down there? De-humidifiers,
heat, ventilation...whatever you have tried and works.

Excavate around the entire house to the bottom of the sills. Waterproof
the basement walls (which probably includes pouring concrete on the old
rock ones). Have a drain mat system placed against the outside of the
basement wall (can be part of the waterproofing process). Lay drain tile
all around the house draining away from the house - if this cannot be
done without a pump, you are screwed - a pump is no match for mother
nature, but your electric utility will enjoy having you give it a try.
Backfill with rock; place barrier fabric, landscape the ground to slope
away frem the house. Inside, lay plastic on the current floor and pour a
new floor. Expensive - should be factored into the incredible low-ball
price which will be your top offer on the house. Interior drains and
sump pumps are costly to run, prone to fail, and don't do a thing for
the water vapor. Dehumidifires and air conditioners deal with the water
vaopr, but need to be quite large to make any dent in the influx for a
house with the water problems you have described, and will also keep
your electric utility very happy for years to come.

Far cheaper - build an above ground shop, use the basement as a mushroom
farm. If that's out of the question, you're buying an expensive headache.

--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by

Put some gutters up, bank some fill so water runs away from the house & dont
get married.

On 29 Jan 2004 07:49:11 -0800, (sandiapaul)
wrote:

OK guys, here is the story. I found a lovely Swedish botanist,
proposed, and now at 43 I'm getting married. We found a great house,
well nearly great. The original part of the house is from 1820 and
it's basement has water seepage into the new (15 year old) walkout 21
x 24 basement. The owner put a trench(french drain) around the
perimeter of the newer slab and a sump pump to get rid of the water.
By close inspection the new part does not seem to have seen any water
on the floor, but the trench certainly has. Don't try to talk my out
of the place that isn't going to happen...What can I do to minimize
the rust effects on my machines and tools down there? De-humidifiers,
heat, ventilation...whatever you have tried and works.

Thanks to all!

Paul

Congrats on the new SHMBO!

Gunner


"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability,
accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose
and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee,
imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any
particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or
responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect
to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by
any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it
into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts
that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other
agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within
five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or
by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron
who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece
of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a
bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'

In article , Wwj2110 says...

Put some gutters up, bank some fill so water runs away from the house & dont
get married.

Check.

Check.

Ch - HOLD IT! What?? Uh oh. Big
time screwup here. Can do this over?

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Damn! I'm glad we don't have many basements around here! I thought getting
flooded was bad....

RJ

"Ecnerwal" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(sandiapaul) wrote:

Don't try to talk my out
of the place that isn't going to happen...

There's a problem. There is always another house, putting blinders on
("falling in love with", etc) when buying is begging to get screwed.
Keep looking and you might find a really nice shop with an acceptable
house, rather than a swamp with a house on it.

What can I do to minimize
the rust effects on my machines and tools down there? De-humidifiers,
heat, ventilation...whatever you have tried and works.

Excavate around the entire house to the bottom of the sills. Waterproof
the basement walls (which probably includes pouring concrete on the old
rock ones). Have a drain mat system placed against the outside of the
basement wall (can be part of the waterproofing process). Lay drain tile
all around the house draining away from the house - if this cannot be
done without a pump, you are screwed - a pump is no match for mother
nature, but your electric utility will enjoy having you give it a try.
Backfill with rock; place barrier fabric, landscape the ground to slope
away frem the house. Inside, lay plastic on the current floor and pour a
new floor. Expensive - should be factored into the incredible low-ball
price which will be your top offer on the house. Interior drains and
sump pumps are costly to run, prone to fail, and don't do a thing for
the water vapor. Dehumidifires and air conditioners deal with the water
vaopr, but need to be quite large to make any dent in the influx for a
house with the water problems you have described, and will also keep
your electric utility very happy for years to come.

Far cheaper - build an above ground shop, use the basement as a mushroom
farm. If that's out of the question, you're buying an expensive headache.

--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by

In article ,
"Backlash" wrote:

Damn! I'm glad we don't have many basements around here! I thought getting
flooded was bad....

The sad part is that many new houses don't have all this done when built
(at which point it is all relatively cheap and easy, becasue you already
have the hole open to put the house in, which is the expensive part of
fixing it later). Heck, I put the drainage pipes in around the frostwall
for my on-grade slab. Having worked in a basement shop, I'm building my
actual shop at and above ground, not down in it.

--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by

Do all of the above to eliminate the water, but if you live where there is
high humidity you will have to have the dehumidifier and try to minimize
entry of outside air like when you open doors. The basement will always be
cooler and when that humid air hits your cold metal machines your gonna get
water droplets.
"sandiapaul" wrote in message
om...
OK guys, here is the story. I found a lovely Swedish botanist,
proposed, and now at 43 I'm getting married. We found a great house,
well nearly great. The original part of the house is from 1820 and
it's basement has water seepage into the new (15 year old) walkout 21
x 24 basement. The owner put a trench(french drain) around the
perimeter of the newer slab and a sump pump to get rid of the water.
By close inspection the new part does not seem to have seen any water
on the floor, but the trench certainly has. Don't try to talk my out
of the place that isn't going to happen...What can I do to minimize
the rust effects on my machines and tools down there? De-humidifiers,
heat, ventilation...whatever you have tried and works.

Thanks to all!

Paul

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:37:47 GMT, Ecnerwal wrote:
Far cheaper - build an above ground shop, use the basement as a mushroom
farm. If that's out of the question, you're buying an expensive headache.

Yep, best advice.

Gary

I am not sure I understand every thing you said. Walkout basement
implies to me that one side of the basement has a door that opens to
ground level. If this is right can you put in drain pipe from the
trench to a lower elevation so you don't need the sump pump?

If the basement was done right, there should be a layer of gravel
topped with a vapor barrier under the concrete floor. If you can put
in a drain so that the water never gets as high as the concrete floor,
you are in pretty good shape. If you rely on a sump pump, sometime it
will not keep up with the water and the concrete floor will adsorb a
lot of water and take months to get bone dry again.

My shop is in the basement. I put drain pipe ( with holes ) around
the basement below the level of the floor and extended it out about
thirty feet from the basement to where it is lower. I don't have
much problem with rust. I do run a dehumidifier, but it is not a very
good one and only collects about a gallon of water a week.

Dan



(sandiapaul) wrote in message . com...
OK guys, here is the story. I found a lovely Swedish botanist,
proposed, and now at 43 I'm getting married. We found a great house,
well nearly great. The original part of the house is from 1820 and
it's basement has water seepage into the new (15 year old) walkout 21
x 24 basement. The owner put a trench(french drain) around the
perimeter of the newer slab and a sump pump to get rid of the water.
By close inspection the new part does not seem to have seen any water
on the floor, but the trench certainly has. Don't try to talk my out
of the place that isn't going to happen...What can I do to minimize
the rust effects on my machines and tools down there? De-humidifiers,
heat, ventilation...whatever you have tried and works.

Thanks to all!

Paul

On 30 Jan 2004 10:12:59 -0800, (Dan Caster) wrote:

I am not sure I understand every thing you said. Walkout basement
implies to me that one side of the basement has a door that opens to
ground level. If this is right can you put in drain pipe from the
trench to a lower elevation so you don't need the sump pump?

If the basement was done right, there should be a layer of gravel
topped with a vapor barrier under the concrete floor. If you can put
in a drain so that the water never gets as high as the concrete floor,
you are in pretty good shape. If you rely on a sump pump, sometime it
will not keep up with the water and the concrete floor will adsorb a
lot of water and take months to get bone dry again.

My shop is in the basement. I put drain pipe ( with holes ) around
the basement below the level of the floor and extended it out about
thirty feet from the basement to where it is lower. I don't have
much problem with rust. I do run a dehumidifier, but it is not a very
good one and only collects about a gallon of water a week.

Dan

snip

I guess I got lucky. My wife picked out the house, our first with a
basement. I didn't get outside access but do not have a sump pump
like most folks around here . The basement is dry as a bone, and I
have had _no_ problem with rust, especially compared to the Texas gulf
coast where I spent most of my life. There was no water in the
basement in a major flood here about 15 years ago.

When we move back upon retirement, I already told the wife that there
will have to be an above ground air-conditioned shop.

Pete Keillor

On 29 Jan 2004 07:49:11 -0800, (sandiapaul)
wrote:

OK guys, here is the story. I found a lovely Swedish botanist,
proposed, and now at 43 I'm getting married. We found a great house,
well nearly great. The original part of the house is from 1820 and
it's basement has water seepage into the new (15 year old) walkout 21
x 24 basement. The owner put a trench(french drain) around the
perimeter of the newer slab and a sump pump to get rid of the water.
By close inspection the new part does not seem to have seen any water
on the floor, but the trench certainly has. Don't try to talk my out
of the place that isn't going to happen...What can I do to minimize
the rust effects on my machines and tools down there? De-humidifiers,
heat, ventilation...whatever you have tried and works.

I had some problems in one section of my basement - it was an old
part with some seriously dodgy concrete. Water the garden, and water
jetted through the voids. I plastered it, using
mortar/plaster-in-a-bag with a waterproofing admixture (used for
waterproofing swimming pools) with a sponge finish. Then painted teh
wall with 2 coats of Resene X-90 - a locally (NZ) made waterproofing
paint. Have a look at your local Borg, they will almost certainly
stock something to stop the water coming through.
Geoff

In article ,
geoff merryweather wrote:

OK guys, here is the story. I found a lovely Swedish botanist,
proposed, and now at 43 I'm getting married. We found a great house,
well nearly great. The original part of the house is from 1820 and
it's basement has water seepage into the new (15 year old) walkout 21
x 24 basement. The owner put a trench(french drain) around the
perimeter of the newer slab and a sump pump to get rid of the water.
By close inspection the new part does not seem to have seen any water
on the floor, but the trench certainly has. Don't try to talk my out
of the place that isn't going to happen...What can I do to minimize
the rust effects on my machines and tools down there? De-humidifiers,
heat, ventilation...whatever you have tried and works.

I had a similiar problem and a similiar solution. One other thing I did
was drill some low holes thru the inside of the concrete block wall. It
seems that the concrete blocks were full of water so I effectively had a
wet wall. When I drilled the holes the wall drained so I only had a wet
french drain and the wall was dry.

--
free men own guns - slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/