Awl--

Short of a mini-giant circulating pump, or mist-er, how do you all apply
cutting fluid while turning?

The flux brush/black oil seems pretty common; I use small flat sticks or
spring steel applicators also. Or plastic droppers (pipettes), if I need
more volume or if the work fries the bristles of the flux brush.

But, apropos of wd40 being such a good tapping fluid for alum, and otherwise
fairly useless (visavis pb blaster, kroil), I figgered I'd use my store up
on the lathe. The aerosol spray would seem to penetrate well into semi-deep
[horizontal, of course] holes, and a spray/atomizer would seem to do well on
general turning, ferrous as well..

Any opinions on this strategy, other idears? Coolant on a manual is
generally problematic. Glasses/shower cap help a lot!
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

I apply coolant mixed with water from a spray bottle.
http://www.instawares.com/Bottle-16-...2-1290.0.7.htm

I apply Sulfured cutting oil with a spray bottle.

I try to use the coolant for all steel cutting except hack sawing and
chamber reaming, when I use the stinky oil.

--
For choosing to fight, one gets the horrors or war, stress, and possibly
death.
For choosing not to fight, one gets subjugation, humiliation, and
possibly death.
Choose your fights carefully.

"Clark Magnuson" wrote in message
...
I apply coolant mixed with water from a spray bottle.
http://www.instawares.com/Bottle-16-...2-1290.0.7.htm

I apply Sulfured cutting oil with a spray bottle.

I try to use the coolant for all steel cutting except hack sawing and
chamber reaming, when I use the stinky oil.

What's the "stinky oil"? I thought *that* was sulfur oil!

Does generic black cutting oil have sulfur in it?
Is sulfur part of what makes "cutting oil" cutting, as opposed to
lubricating? Anything other diffs?

There is natural sulfur content in fuel oils (depending on geographical
source, I would imagine), which is the primary cause of acid rain--H2SO4.
Some lakes have pH 5!! Like orange juice!! yummm.....

I wonder how one might test cutting oil effectiveness? Tool life?

Yeah, I use those spray bottles as well, except my Costco ones are 32 oz,
really too big. Thanks for the link.
I have found, btw, that some, maybe all those spray bottles lose the
"spray", and will only "stream", above a certain flluid viscosity. fwiw.
If you need the wide angle spray, you can dilute the pure oil w/ wd40,
'Blaster, kroil...
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll


--
For choosing to fight, one gets the horrors or war, stress, and possibly
death.
For choosing not to fight, one gets subjugation, humiliation, and possibly
death.
Choose your fights carefully.

--One trick: if you've got a long cut to make and the spray mist
stuff is too thin, rig an old coffee can with a valve and attach a length of
model airplane fuel line tubing or similar to it. Position the can high on
the mill so it's got gravity to aid flow. Fasten the tube to the top
of the spray mist nozzle, ending maybe an inch or two from the end. Turn on
the heavy oil and it'll ooze down to the end of the spraymist without
dripping, then it'll get blasted onto the part along with whatever mist
you're shooting. I've done this many times and it beats the heck out of
stuffing a brush in there every ten seconds for half an hour..

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : I can make damn near anything
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : ...except money, sigh.
http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

I use a brush for small amounts of oil and a pump-type oil can with a
long spout if the work needs to be flooded.

Mike

"Clark Magnuson" wrote ...
I apply coolant mixed with water from a spray bottle.
http://www.instawares.com/Bottle-16-...2-1290.0.7.htm

I just "recycle" the plastic dishwashing soap bottles for that. I'm just
basically "cheap".... :-)

I apply Sulfured cutting oil with a spray bottle.

I try to use the coolant for all steel cutting except hack sawing and
chamber reaming, when I use the stinky oil.

Type F automatic transmission fluid works great for chamber reaming, esp. in
stainless. Doesn't stink, either (or maybe my nose is immune....).

-jc-

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote:


Is sulfur part of what makes "cutting oil" cutting, as opposed to
lubricating? Anything other diffs?

PV:

Here's an explanation on what function Sulfur and Chlorine serve in
cutting oils, from a cutting oil manufacturer.

================================================== =====
http://www.sunnysidecorp.com/metal_working_oils.htm

Sulfur.

This additive performs an anti-wear function in cutting oils by forming
a chemical bond between the cutting tool and work piece, thereby keeping
the tool from coming in direct contact with the metal being cut. There
are two types of sulfur additives, active and inactive. The inactive
compound is used for cutting mild (low-carbon) steels and will not stain
these softer materials. The active sulfur forms a stronger bond than
the inactive but will stain soft metals. So, oil containing active
sulfur is recommended for cutting and broaching the harder varieties of
steel only. The object of this chemical bond is to promote longer
tool life and to keep the tool from welding itself to the work piece
under the severe temperatures created in many metal cutting operations.


Chlorine.

This additive works in the same fashion as the sulfur additive and
tends to complement the sulfur by strengthening the chemical bond (film)
around the tool. For this reason you will often find this additive
used cutting oils that contain a sulfur compound. Chlorine tends to be
liberated to the atmosphere at elevated temperature; therefore chlorine
additives are not particularly useful for extremely high temperature
applications.
================================================== =======

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

This is a particularly elegant solution! With or without spray mist.

If the tubing tip is attached to the cutting tool/toolpost itself, provides
constant coolant at the cutter's edge, at almost any flow rate--depending on
how high yer ceiling is...
No motors, air, hassle. Just gravity!
I probably will kluge up a loc-line ditty here. Too bad the smallest they
make (I think) is 1/4"--but, they have pretty fine tips.

Oh yeah, and a pulley/rope for the can--I got high ceilings!
Also could have multiple coffee cans, just switch lines around, for alum,
steel, etc.
Very nice!
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"steamer" wrote in message
...
--One trick: if you've got a long cut to make and the spray mist
stuff is too thin, rig an old coffee can with a valve and attach a length
of
model airplane fuel line tubing or similar to it. Position the can high on
the mill so it's got gravity to aid flow. Fasten the tube to the top
of the spray mist nozzle, ending maybe an inch or two from the end. Turn
on
the heavy oil and it'll ooze down to the end of the spraymist without
dripping, then it'll get blasted onto the part along with whatever mist
you're shooting. I've done this many times and it beats the heck out of
stuffing a brush in there every ten seconds for half an hour..

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : I can make damn near anything
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : ...except money, sigh.
http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 18:54:50 GMT, BottleBob wrote:

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote:


Is sulfur part of what makes "cutting oil" cutting, as opposed to
lubricating? Anything other diffs?

PV:

Here's an explanation on what function Sulfur and Chlorine serve in
cutting oils, from a cutting oil manufacturer.

================================================= ======
http://www.sunnysidecorp.com/metal_working_oils.htm

Sulfur.

This additive performs an anti-wear function in cutting oils by forming
a chemical bond between the cutting tool and work piece, thereby keeping
the tool from coming in direct contact with the metal being cut. There
are two types of sulfur additives, active and inactive. The inactive
compound is used for cutting mild (low-carbon) steels and will not stain
these softer materials. The active sulfur forms a stronger bond than
the inactive but will stain soft metals. So, oil containing active
sulfur is recommended for cutting and broaching the harder varieties of
steel only. The object of this chemical bond is to promote longer
tool life and to keep the tool from welding itself to the work piece
under the severe temperatures created in many metal cutting operations.


Chlorine.

This additive works in the same fashion as the sulfur additive and
tends to complement the sulfur by strengthening the chemical bond (film)
around the tool. For this reason you will often find this additive
used cutting oils that contain a sulfur compound. Chlorine tends to be
liberated to the atmosphere at elevated temperature; therefore chlorine
additives are not particularly useful for extremely high temperature
applications.
================================================= ========

All,
I'll point out that such compounds are ALSO added to synthetic and
soluable oil types of cutting fluids. So are some others.
Why do you think that badly maintained water-based cutting fluids
can stink? The bacteria are degrading/metabolizing the compounds.

See:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.m...e=source&hl=en
--
Cliff

On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 19:13:17 GMT, Why wrote:

http://www.sunnysidecorp.com/metal_working_oils.htm

Sulfur.

This additive performs an anti-wear function in cutting oils by forming
a chemical bond between the cutting tool and work piece, thereby keeping
the tool from coming in direct contact with the metal being cut. There
are two types of sulfur additives, active and inactive. The inactive
compound is used for cutting mild (low-carbon) steels and will not stain
these softer materials. The active sulfur forms a stronger bond than
the inactive but will stain soft metals.

BS, It will only stain soft metals like brass which I have been
running by the 1,000's for 30 yrs "IF" you don't wash the days run
in Naptha! Don't wait 2 days.

I think that's a chemical reaction between the Copper & the "free" Sulfur.
And a soap should work as well (or better & cheaper) for washing IF
you can legally/properly dispose of the wastewater (which might be more
likely with a biodegradable water-based cutting fluid).
--
Cliff

Really really interesting!

I would, however, point out one logical inconsistency in the explanation
below.
In forming a "chemical bond" between the tool and workpiece, which "thereby
keeps the tool from direct contact w/ the metal", I would say that you don't
get much better "direct contact" THAN a chemical bond!!

I think what they *meant* to say is that the sulfur somehow loosely bonds
the OIL to the metal(s), thereby keeping the two metals (bit/work mat'l)
from *bonding to each other* under the high temps due to cutting, and thus
preventing dulling.
And might explain why sulfur oil is more effective on steels, because the S
is bonding to both the tool *and* the material.

Uh, *covalent* bonds, in fact... (old, very inneresting amc
thread...)
Similar to the way sulfur vulcanizes rubber, also requiring high temps.

Sulfur is perhaps the most important element in the body's structural
proteins (hair, muscle, skin, etc.), ito of forming their 3D structures
(quaternary structure, in the parlance), via cross-linking--but mostly via
sulfur-sulfur "bridges".
For example, curly hair has more di-sulfide bridges than straight hair.
Perms break these S-S bonds, thus straightening hair, but which will
spontaneously reform, over time.
What makes a fried egg "fried" is extensive S-S bond formations. Not
reversible over time.
Note sulfur in vulcanizing (cross-linking) rubber, as well.

Chlorine (or more accurately, chloride) is thought to be the culprit in
embrittled SS, which is why SS is just so-so in marine applications.

So these effects of sulfur/chlorine are not exact analogies, but
interesting, none-the-less.
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"BottleBob" wrote in message
...
"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote:


Is sulfur part of what makes "cutting oil" cutting, as opposed to
lubricating? Anything other diffs?

PV:

Here's an explanation on what function Sulfur and Chlorine serve in
cutting oils, from a cutting oil manufacturer.

================================================== =====
http://www.sunnysidecorp.com/metal_working_oils.htm

Sulfur.

This additive performs an anti-wear function in cutting oils by forming
a chemical bond between the cutting tool and work piece, thereby keeping
the tool from coming in direct contact with the metal being cut. There
are two types of sulfur additives, active and inactive. The inactive
compound is used for cutting mild (low-carbon) steels and will not stain
these softer materials. The active sulfur forms a stronger bond than
the inactive but will stain soft metals. So, oil containing active
sulfur is recommended for cutting and broaching the harder varieties of
steel only. The object of this chemical bond is to promote longer
tool life and to keep the tool from welding itself to the work piece
under the severe temperatures created in many metal cutting operations.


Chlorine.

This additive works in the same fashion as the sulfur additive and
tends to complement the sulfur by strengthening the chemical bond (film)
around the tool. For this reason you will often find this additive
used cutting oils that contain a sulfur compound. Chlorine tends to be
liberated to the atmosphere at elevated temperature; therefore chlorine
additives are not particularly useful for extremely high temperature
applications.
================================================== =======

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

Why wrote:

http://www.sunnysidecorp.com/metal_working_oils.htm

Sulfur.

This additive performs an anti-wear function in cutting oils by forming
a chemical bond between the cutting tool and work piece, thereby keeping
the tool from coming in direct contact with the metal being cut. There
are two types of sulfur additives, active and inactive. The inactive
compound is used for cutting mild (low-carbon) steels and will not stain
these softer materials. The active sulfur forms a stronger bond than
the inactive but will stain soft metals.

BS, It will only stain soft metals like brass which I have been
running by the 1,000's for 30 yrs "IF" you don't wash the days run
in Naptha! Don't wait 2 days.

Dave:

Yeah, they should have had their advertising copy proofread by a
machinist that uses sulfur oil on a regular basis. LOL


--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob