Just got a Boyar Schultz 6" x 12" grinder for the home shop. It seems
grind pretty square for an $200 old machine, ie. two sides of a bar
within 0.0002 over 4", but the surface is a little wavy looking. The
spindle is tight, but there is about 5 degrees of backlash between the
motor shaft and the spindle shaft. I think it's direct drive with some
kind of toothed coupling between the motor shaft and the spindle. The
3/4 hp 3 ph. motor looks original. Maybe this coupling is effecting
the finish? I did a google on Boyar Schultz but no response. I guess
they are no longer in the grinder business...anyone have a manual for
this machine or parts info? Also I plan on grinding valve shims for
the Jag DOHC engine, these are ~1/2" diam, 0.080 to 0.100" thick. I'm
thinking they can go right on the magnetic chuck, with perhaps some
kind of a "backstop" to keep them from flying - any suggestions?

oldjag wrote:

Just got a Boyar Schultz 6" x 12" grinder for the home shop. It seems
grind pretty square for an $200 old machine, ie. two sides of a bar
within 0.0002 over 4", but the surface is a little wavy looking. The
spindle is tight, but there is about 5 degrees of backlash between the
motor shaft and the spindle shaft. I think it's direct drive with some
kind of toothed coupling between the motor shaft and the spindle. The
3/4 hp 3 ph. motor looks original. Maybe this coupling is effecting
the finish? I did a google on Boyar Schultz but no response. I guess
they are no longer in the grinder business...anyone have a manual for
this machine or parts info? Also I plan on grinding valve shims for
the Jag DOHC engine, these are ~1/2" diam, 0.080 to 0.100" thick. I'm
thinking they can go right on the magnetic chuck, with perhaps some
kind of a "backstop" to keep them from flying - any suggestions?

Let me preface this by saying that I do not (yet) have a surface
grinder. I do recall reading somewhere that the surface finish from a
grinder with a 3ph motor can be affected by poor 3ph power as in from an
unbalanced rotary converter. The developed leg gives a "lumpy" torque
profile which is reflected in vibrations and surface finish. A good
quality VFD should provide clean power.

Pete C.

Your cars? If so, what year/model? I have a 64 E-tpye roadster and a 67
coupe. Bill

It appears that Boyar Schultz may be owned by W.A. Whitney although I
suspect they are no longer in production. There is a hint at this URL:

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//Fo...ML/002765.html

Cheers,

Kelley

On 20 Dec 2005 09:06:31 -0800, "oldjag"
wrote:

Just got a Boyar Schultz 6" x 12" grinder for the home shop. It seems
grind pretty square for an $200 old machine, ie. two sides of a bar
within 0.0002 over 4", but the surface is a little wavy looking. The
spindle is tight, but there is about 5 degrees of backlash between the
motor shaft and the spindle shaft. I think it's direct drive with some
kind of toothed coupling between the motor shaft and the spindle. The
3/4 hp 3 ph. motor looks original. Maybe this coupling is effecting
the finish? I did a google on Boyar Schultz but no response. I guess
they are no longer in the grinder business...anyone have a manual for
this machine or parts info? Also I plan on grinding valve shims for
the Jag DOHC engine, these are ~1/2" diam, 0.080 to 0.100" thick. I'm
thinking they can go right on the magnetic chuck, with perhaps some
kind of a "backstop" to keep them from flying - any suggestions?

3/4 hp 3 ph. motor looks original. Maybe this coupling is effecting
the finish?


Lots of factors to consider.
- grit and hardness of the grinding wheel.
- how you dress the wheel
- are you using coolent?
- are you using VFD, static phase converter, RPC ??
- feed rate
- hardness of material
I'm sure harold will have a few more!

Well I am using a rotary phase converter. I've never checked the
output voltage/current balance at light load, ie the grinder at 3/4
hp. It's balanced to less than 5 volts difference on each phase when I
run my 10hp motor on my lathe. I'll try running the grinder with the
lathe motor on to see if there is a difference.

I have 67 E roadster that I have Raced in SCCA for a long time.
Started as a autocross car, then GT1 then finally got it reclassified
with 45 DCOE webber carbs to GT2. Was reasonably competive in GT2,
especially considering the money dumped into the Nissan and Porsche
competition. Has Carrillo rods, Weaver dry sump, AP Front brakes,
Wilwood outboard brakes on rear, Torsen diff, and coil over Penske
shocks on the front, as I couldn't fit stiff enough torsion bars. Lots
of homemade parts since pretty much everything needs to be custom made.
Last ran at the runoffs several years ago, but parked since due to a
house project. I'd like to get back and do some NEDIV regionals
sometime if SCCA has not screwed with the classification. Tires, entry
fees and fuel are about 5 times more than they used to be....

oldjag wrote:

Well I am using a rotary phase converter. I've never checked the
output voltage/current balance at light load, ie the grinder at 3/4
hp. It's balanced to less than 5 volts difference on each phase when I
run my 10hp motor on my lathe. I'll try running the grinder with the
lathe motor on to see if there is a difference.

I really really doubt it's your phase converter. I suggest you balance your
wheel, dress it, break the corners with a dressing stone, and balance it again,
make sure the ways are lubricated correctly, check the belts, and try your test
again. If your wheel adapter isn't set up for balancing you can get one that is
from Chevalier's office in Los Angeles. I know because I ordered 2 of 'em.

GWE

"Chuck Sherwood" wrote in message
...
3/4 hp 3 ph. motor looks original. Maybe this coupling is effecting
the finish?


Lots of factors to consider.
- grit and hardness of the grinding wheel.
- how you dress the wheel
- are you using coolent?
- are you using VFD, static phase converter, RPC ??
- feed rate
- hardness of material
I'm sure harold will have a few more!

You're right. Lots of factors, most of which are not real obvious and may
not appear to be related. My money says the machine has bad bearings, but
it could be something else. I'll toss in some ideas, but without seeing
the machine, it's really hard to get a clue.

Most importantly would be matching the abrasive to the material. Aluminum
oxide for steel, never silicon carbide, be it green or black. The wrong
wheel will yield that result almost instantly due to it's behaving as if
it's dull or loaded.

Wheel should be firmly tightened, but not over tightened. Use short handled
tools with no cheaters.

It is well known that minor bearing defects in surface grinders will
manifest themselves as waviness---and it takes less than .000010" deviation
for the surface to appear that way. In essence, if the bearings are
marginal, it's not beyond reason for the surface to have a wavy appearance,
all the while being quite flat, at least in general shop terms. Nothing but
bearing replacement will fix the problem, and then only if the bearings are
installed properly, and they're high precision bearings.

A wheel that is too hard will also yield similar results, as will a loaded
wheel. Each of those conditions are very similar to one another and are
often hard to discern from one another. A close inspection of the wheel
will often speak volumes.

It's entirely possible the coupling is affecting the finish, particularly if
it does any moving about. Flat surfaces are very sensitive to minor
deviations, and it takes very little to create an undesirable pattern. If
the machine was belt driven, I'd even suggest flutter in the belt, which
often has a profound affect on the finish. Any similar action by a coupler
could be a problem.

Grind wet, if possible. Dry grinding is always trouble, and should be
avoided if possible. Flood cooling is best, but spray mist is better than
nothing.

I suspect the shims are heat treated, maybe around 45/50 Rc. An aluminum
oxide wheel, maybe a Norton 38A, 46 to 60 grit, L or M hardness, vitrified
bond, diamond dressed (don't break the corners as Grant suggested. That
serves NO useful purpose), and *don't* plunge grind. Start on an edge and
feed across, maybe .030" per pass, with anywhere from a couple tenths up to
maybe .005" depth of cut (how they stay put on the chuck will determine how
much each pass will tolerate, plus how much has to come off will also
dictate), and allow the balance of the wheel to spark the part. Grind all
the way across the part (@ .030"/per pass), until the wheel leaves the far
side. If finish is important, dress the wheel and take a finish pass of
only a couple tenths, again, about .030" per pass.

As you suggested, block the pieces with a thin steel strip to prevent them
from moving under the wheel. Grind this way until the working edge of the
wheel starts to break down such that finish starts to suffer, at which time
you should dress the wheel slightly more than the depth of cut, to restore
the wheel to a flat condition side to side. You should be able to grind
one hell of a lot of pieces before the wheel needs to be dressed. If not,
there's something wrong with your choice of wheel. Remember, softer wheel
for harder material, harder wheel for softer material. Finer wheel for
better finish, coarser wheel for faster stock removal, but at the cost of a
better finish.

Harold

I also have a Boyar Schultz 6 x 12 and replaced the hard rubber /
fiber coupling. Just take the part to a bearing supply house and
they can identify the replacement. Mine was a Lovejoy L076?. Less
than $20 if I remember correctly.

Changing is relatively easy, but you will likely need a copy of the
manual. Email if I can help

John Normile

On 20 Dec 2005 09:06:31 -0800, "oldjag"
wrote:
Just got a Boyar Schultz 6" x 12" grinder for the home shop. It seems
grind pretty square for an $200 old machine, ie. two sides of a bar
within 0.0002 over 4", but the surface is a little wavy looking. The
spindle is tight, but there is about 5 degrees of backlash between the
motor shaft and the spindle shaft. I think it's direct drive with some
kind of toothed coupling between the motor shaft and the spindle. The
3/4 hp 3 ph. motor looks original. Maybe this coupling is effecting
the finish? I did a google on Boyar Schultz but no response. I guess
they are no longer in the grinder business...anyone have a manual for
this machine or parts info? Also I plan on grinding valve shims for
the Jag DOHC engine, these are ~1/2" diam, 0.080 to 0.100" thick. I'm
thinking they can go right on the magnetic chuck, with perhaps some
kind of a "backstop" to keep them from flying - any suggestions?

John; thanks for the info. I have a call in to the Whitney company to
see if they can provide a manual.

I have 67 E roadster that I have Raced in SCCA for a long time.
Started as a autocross car, then GT1 then finally got it reclassified
with 45 DCOE webber carbs to GT2. Was reasonably competive in GT2,
especially considering the money dumped into the Nissan and Porsche
competition. Has Carrillo rods, Weaver dry sump, AP Front brakes,
Wilwood outboard brakes on rear, Torsen diff, and coil over Penske
shocks on the front, as I couldn't fit stiff enough torsion bars. Lots
of homemade parts since pretty much everything needs to be custom made.
Last ran at the runoffs several years ago, but parked since due to a
house project. I'd like to get back and do some NEDIV regionals
sometime if SCCA has not screwed with the classification. Tires, entry
fees and fuel are about 5 times more than they used to be....

On 21 Dec 2005 10:13:32 -0800, "oldjag"
wrote:

John; thanks for the info. I have a call in to the Whitney company to
see if they can provide a manual.

Anyone want a pair of these Boyer Shultz..Ive got a pair to give away
free to anyone who wants them. Both need spindle bearings, and some
paint/tlc.

If not..they are going to sit outside until they rust to pieces.

Gunner, with a Ramco 6x18 and just scored a Covel 6x12 thats pretty
nice.


"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Where are you located. I might be interested in your surface grinders.
Thanks, Danth

On 25 Dec 2005 13:23:40 -0800, "Danth48" wrote:

Where are you located. I might be interested in your surface grinders.
Thanks, Danth

Taft, California, near Bakersfield

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner