On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:23:36 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Brent Philion quickly quoth:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 16:55:58 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:

I managed to catch a piece of plywood on fire (Hmm, what's that
wood smell?) while testing it today but I joined the 1/8" steel
plate to a 1/16" steel plate alright. Time to hacksaw & TIG together
a rolling welding station for the little machine.

Lighting the ply on fire tells me you might want to make the cart Second
and a welding TABLE first?

Saaaay, not a bad idea, Brent. g I'll have to visit the scrap steel
yard early next year. Tuesday, Jan 2, sounds good.

For the quick-'n-dirty test, I clamped the steel to a piece of
painted plywood and gave the tiggy half power. Perhaps I didn't
need that much for the weld. About 3/4" worth of bead lit 'er up!


------
We're born hungry, wet, 'n naked, and it gets worse from there.
- http://diversify.com Website Application Programming -

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 15:11:57 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus24987 quickly quoth:

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 06:13:32 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:

You wrote:
Outstanding. I am very happy for you. Show us some weld pictures...

Soon. Soon. (Gimme zum time to practice, OK?)

I think that bad welds are even more fun to look at than good welds!

I could tell that by the pics on your website. duckin'

For quick-'n-dirty first weld, I left the gawdawful looking electrode
in there (pretested torch, I guess) and didn't regrind it, sticking
it a couple times as I got used to the feel. I sure like that HF auto
lens in the helmet. One can SEE what they're doing just prior to the
arc and then see the puddle nicely. That alone made me a better
weldor.


------
We're born hungry, wet, 'n naked, and it gets worse from there.
- http://diversify.com Website Application Programming -

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:41:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:23:36 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Brent Philion quickly quoth:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 16:55:58 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:

I managed to catch a piece of plywood on fire (Hmm, what's that
wood smell?) while testing it today but I joined the 1/8" steel
plate to a 1/16" steel plate alright. Time to hacksaw & TIG together
a rolling welding station for the little machine.

Lighting the ply on fire tells me you might want to make the cart Second
and a welding TABLE first?

Saaaay, not a bad idea, Brent. g I'll have to visit the scrap steel
yard early next year. Tuesday, Jan 2, sounds good.

Look for a piece of grid type catwalk. Makes a good welding table,
easy to clamp between the grids, and you can use a torch on it any
place without worry about tearing up the table. If you cut a grid..its
no big deal.

For the quick-'n-dirty test, I clamped the steel to a piece of
painted plywood and gave the tiggy half power. Perhaps I didn't
need that much for the weld. About 3/4" worth of bead lit 'er up!


------
We're born hungry, wet, 'n naked, and it gets worse from there.
- http://diversify.com Website Application Programming -

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

OK, if DC only then nogo for aluminum, correct??

Yes, it's a decent box, BUT...

HF vs. Miller, et al.
---------------------
scratch-start vs. HiFreq-start,
dc vs. ac/dc,
130A vs. 180Amps,
$299 (regular or $199 on sale) vs. $1,299.

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 23:02:15 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth:

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:41:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Saaaay, not a bad idea, Brent. g I'll have to visit the scrap steel
yard early next year. Tuesday, Jan 2, sounds good.

Look for a piece of grid type catwalk. Makes a good welding table,
easy to clamp between the grids, and you can use a torch on it any
place without worry about tearing up the table. If you cut a grid..its
no big deal.

Excellent idea, Gunner. Thanks. That's much easier than cutting
and making one out of steel bar, though the latter entials more
practice with the welder.


------
We're born hungry, wet, 'n naked, and it gets worse from there.
- http://diversify.com Website Application Programming -

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 00:30:19 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Bradford Chaucer quickly quoth:

OK, if DC only then nogo for aluminum, correct??

According to Ernie via Glenn, reversing the polarity makes it
work to some degree. I'm going to give it a try with a pure
tungsten electrode some day soon, between the monsoonal rains.


------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------
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On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 06:12:27 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 00:30:19 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Bradford Chaucer quickly quoth:

OK, if DC only then nogo for aluminum, correct??

According to Ernie via Glenn, reversing the polarity makes it
work to some degree. I'm going to give it a try with a pure
tungsten electrode some day soon, between the monsoonal rains.

Get some zirconiated tungstens for that. They'll hold their shape
much better with DCRP than pure tungsten.

I was having some trouble the other night with a weld. Finally
examined the tungsten. It was an old pure tungsten. CLANG!
Put in a Zr tungsten, all went well thereafter.

Just grind a point on them and start welding. They'll quickly form a
little ball commeasurate with the current being used, and then stay
that way until you up the current.

A foreheadslapper aside: I'd wondered why I couldn't get a new
full-length new tungsten into my WP-20 torch when changing from Th to
Zr for aluminum. Seems like it used to take them. When I loosened
the collet, I thought the tungsten had fallen out -- but no, it
appeared with a shake. But waitaminnit, howcome there's a short Th
tungsten on the floor then? Well, I'd worry about that later.
Turned out to be about 30 seconds later when I suddenly couldn't weld
for crap. Hmm. Examined tungsten. I'll bet that old pure
tungsten has been lurking back in the torch for quite a while,
blocking entry of newer longer ones. Maybe some tungstens, being
pure and all, just can't take rejection gracefully!


------------------------------------------
Do the voices in my head bother you?
------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Full-Service Web Development

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 05:55:41 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 23:02:15 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth:

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:41:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Saaaay, not a bad idea, Brent. g I'll have to visit the scrap steel
yard early next year. Tuesday, Jan 2, sounds good.

Look for a piece of grid type catwalk. Makes a good welding table,
easy to clamp between the grids, and you can use a torch on it any
place without worry about tearing up the table. If you cut a grid..its
no big deal.

Excellent idea, Gunner. Thanks. That's much easier than cutting
and making one out of steel bar, though the latter entials more
practice with the welder.

Then make a L steel frame to drop the grid into. That way you can
replace the grid at will with a piece of solid, or plywood etc. While
you are at it...mount the L steel frame on a piece of pipe, that wil
slide OVER another piece of pipe, so the whole table will turn..with
the smaller piece of pipe on a truck rim base, or whatnot. It makes
life easier if the table spins, when cutting curves and circles and
whatnot. Just have the wife/daughter/neighborkid spin the table as you
cut. G

I should mention..thats exactly what I use for my rough cutting table.
Btw..you put the pipe OVER the smaller pipe..so mang doesnt get inside
and freeze it up so it wont spin. Thats Ver. 1.1 btw...chuckle

I got a pic somewhere of mine.

Gunner



------
We're born hungry, wet, 'n naked, and it gets worse from there.
- http://diversify.com Website Application Programming -

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:22:42 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, Don
Foreman quickly quoth:

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 06:12:27 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 00:30:19 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Bradford Chaucer quickly quoth:

OK, if DC only then nogo for aluminum, correct??

According to Ernie via Glenn, reversing the polarity makes it
work to some degree. I'm going to give it a try with a pure
tungsten electrode some day soon, between the monsoonal rains.

Get some zirconiated tungstens for that. They'll hold their shape
much better with DCRP than pure tungsten.

I haven't seen them, but I haven't perused all of the supplies at
Airgas or any of the other welding shops yet, either. I'll look
for some and give it a try.


I was having some trouble the other night with a weld. Finally
examined the tungsten. It was an old pure tungsten. CLANG!
Put in a Zr tungsten, all went well thereafter.

Good tip. Thanks, Don.


Just grind a point on them and start welding. They'll quickly form a
little ball commeasurate with the current being used, and then stay
that way until you up the current.

OK, that's what Finch says in the Welder's Handbook.


A foreheadslapper aside: I'd wondered why I couldn't get a new
full-length new tungsten into my WP-20 torch when changing from Th to
Zr for aluminum. Seems like it used to take them. When I loosened
the collet, I thought the tungsten had fallen out -- but no, it
appeared with a shake. But waitaminnit, howcome there's a short Th
tungsten on the floor then? Well, I'd worry about that later.
Turned out to be about 30 seconds later when I suddenly couldn't weld
for crap. Hmm. Examined tungsten. I'll bet that old pure
tungsten has been lurking back in the torch for quite a while,
blocking entry of newer longer ones. Maybe some tungstens, being
pure and all, just can't take rejection gracefully!

Har! No doubt.

I need to set up a little box fan for a TIG welding station so I
can vent the nasty gases outside. My shop is included in my HVAC
system (2 car shop with attached home) so I need to be careful with
that.


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On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 17:36:07 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

I need to set up a little box fan for a TIG welding station so I
can vent the nasty gases outside. My shop is included in my HVAC
system (2 car shop with attached home) so I need to be careful with
that.

Wait just a cotton-picking minute here! You don't have heat ducts
and a return from the house system rigged to an attached garage, do
you? Even if you rigged them with fire dampers and a return duct
smoke detector, the local Fire Department will still have kittens if
they find out. Not to mention your homeowners insurer...

That firewall between house and garage has to remain intact, or any
bad things that happen will get much worse, really fast.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 03:17:07 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Bruce
L. Bergman quickly quoth:

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 17:36:07 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

I need to set up a little box fan for a TIG welding station so I
can vent the nasty gases outside. My shop is included in my HVAC
system (2 car shop with attached home) so I need to be careful with
that.

Wait just a cotton-picking minute here! You don't have heat ducts
and a return from the house system rigged to an attached garage, do
you?

Of course not, Bruce. g


Even if you rigged them with fire dampers and a return duct
smoke detector, the local Fire Department will still have kittens if
they find out. Not to mention your homeowners insurer...

The local inspector came out and looked at the attic installation of
the HVAC system and signed it off.


That firewall between house and garage has to remain intact, or any
bad things that happen will get much worse, really fast.

The house was made in the mid sixties, before firewall standards came
into being. 1/3 of the fireplace wall is comprised of brick, 1/3
sheetrock (single thickness 3/4"), and 1/3 fiberboard (single
thickness 3/4" of that brown, mushy stuff a gal could put her fist
through if she wanted)

The shop is primarily a woodshop, so I'm up **** creek in a fire
anyway. That's why I won't be doing much welding inside. One of my
220v outlets is right next to the side door and my arc welder goes
outside to weld on the sidewalk (usually during the late-
spring/summer/early-fall months)


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On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 06:02:18 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 03:17:07 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Bruce
L. Bergman quickly quoth:

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 17:36:07 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

I need to set up a little box fan for a TIG welding station so I
can vent the nasty gases outside. My shop is included in my HVAC
system (2 car shop with attached home) so I need to be careful with
that.

Wait just a cotton-picking minute here! You don't have heat ducts
and a return from the house system rigged to an attached garage, do
you?

Of course not, Bruce. g

Phew! ^_^ I've seen it done before.

Even if you rigged them with fire dampers and a return duct
smoke detector, the local Fire Department will still have kittens if
they find out. Not to mention your homeowners insurer...

The local inspector came out and looked at the attic installation of
the HVAC system and signed it off.

Attic of the house for the house is fine. If you want to heat the
shop, hang a separate gas fired unit heater in the rafters.

That firewall between house and garage has to remain intact, or any
bad things that happen will get much worse, really fast.

The house was made in the mid sixties, before firewall standards came
into being. 1/3 of the fireplace wall is comprised of brick, 1/3
sheetrock (single thickness 3/4"), and 1/3 fiberboard (single
thickness 3/4" of that brown, mushy stuff a gal could put her fist
through if she wanted)

So? Ours was built in the late 40's, added on in the 50's, and they
built a proper button-board and plaster firewall - and there's a
second one in the attic, where the Office used to be the Garage,
before they built the current Garage... The door isn't UL Rated, but
a plain solid-core door will hold for quite a while.

You can swap out an old interior garage door yourself easy enough,
though a rated 2-Hour door and jamb set is NOT cheap. And put on a
closer or spring hinges.

It's easy enough to drywall over the soundboard all the way up to
the roof sheeting, and 5/8 drywall will slow the fire down long enough
for the FD to have a decent chance at saving the house. Put it on the
list.

The shop is primarily a woodshop, so I'm up **** creek in a fire
anyway. That's why I won't be doing much welding inside. One of my
220v outlets is right next to the side door and my arc welder goes
outside to weld on the sidewalk (usually during the late-
spring/summer/early-fall months)

If you put in a hood with a fan for controlled fume extraction and
drywall the area, there's no reason not to weld inside. For TIG it's
probably better, since wind and shielding gases do not get along very
well. They both want to occupy the same space...

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Promote Whirled Peas.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 14:04:50 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus32654 quickly quoth:

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 06:02:18 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
The shop is primarily a woodshop, so I'm up **** creek in a fire
anyway. That's why I won't be doing much welding inside. One of my
220v outlets is right next to the side door and my arc welder goes
outside to weld on the sidewalk (usually during the late-
spring/summer/early-fall months)

I am curious if any of your neighbors would object to seeing welding
arcs.

The cows are next door (5 steers who would run from my activities)
and their owners are 1/8 mile away. I believe it's safe for all and
that nobody minds my hobbies.


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On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 17:26:00 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Bruce
L. Bergman quickly quoth:

So? Ours was built in the late 40's, added on in the 50's, and they
built a proper button-board and plaster firewall - and there's a
second one in the attic, where the Office used to be the Garage,
before they built the current Garage... The door isn't UL Rated, but
a plain solid-core door will hold for quite a while.

You can swap out an old interior garage door yourself easy enough,
though a rated 2-Hour door and jamb set is NOT cheap. And put on a
closer or spring hinges.

I'll think on it while I'm cleaning and redoing the entire shop this
month.


It's easy enough to drywall over the soundboard all the way up to
the roof sheeting, and 5/8 drywall will slow the fire down long enough
for the FD to have a decent chance at saving the house. Put it on the
list.

I was wrong about that drywall on the fireplace side. It's 1/4" ply.


If you put in a hood with a fan for controlled fume extraction and
drywall the area, there's no reason not to weld inside. For TIG it's
probably better, since wind and shielding gases do not get along very
well. They both want to occupy the same space...

Yeah, I was thinking of building a small, steel-topped table with a
hood and 5" box fan ducting the gases outside via some spare 4" dust
collector hose. BUT, I think it'll fit a sheetmetal top on the little
built-in desk in the office (the last tenant built for himself) just
off the shop. I'm not using that for much other than storage, and once
I clean up the shelving in the shop and add some new high shelves on
one wall, I should have room to clear the extraneous items out of
there and into labeled storage in the shop. I could add drywall in the
little room pretty easily for more fire safety. It also has a window
for ventilation of the small (6x6') room. A hood ducting gases out of
the top while the window is cracked open for air should work fine
without creating a large shielding-gas-blowing draft.


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