http://cgi.ebay.com/Charmilles-Singl...cmdZV iewItem

Ive done business with these folks before. They will often take
significantly less if the item doesnt sell on Ebay.

Shrug

Ask for Yavone

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Gunner Asch wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Charmilles-Singl...cmdZV iewItem

Ive done business with these folks before. They will often take
significantly less if the item doesnt sell on Ebay.

Shrug

Ask for Yavone

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

I ran D10s for a few years, very accurate EDM machines with sensitive
heads. Less than 1% electrode wear can it do!
At the company I EDM-d fine blanking tools in production, to close
tolerances.
Julius

What type of finish does one get with EDM? Any pcitures on the web? Is
this something that the average guy could have in his shop? Any bizarre
requirements?

Peter

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Charmilles-Singl...cmdZV iewItem

Ive done business with these folks before. They will often take
significantly less if the item doesnt sell on Ebay.

Shrug

Ask for Yavone

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Peter Grey" wrote in message
ink.net...
What type of finish does one get with EDM?

That particular one, a Charmilles D10, will give you a very nice, random
finish -- maybe something like 8 microinches Ra in steel, to take a guess.

Any pcitures on the web?

Of finishes? Maybe. Try Mitsubishi, Charmilles, Agie, Sodick websites. You
might also try Google Scholar and look for an engineering article on
something like "EDM surface finish," without the quotes. There have been
lots of photomicrographs published over the years.

Is
this something that the average guy could have in his shop?

It's possible. Some people do it. You need a good reason, though, IMO.

Any bizarre requirements?

Don't tell your house insurer. He'll run screaming as he tears your policy
to shreds. g They do catch on fire if you get a little loose with your
shop hygiene. They also catch on fire sometimes, anyway. And don't put one
in a basement shop. Your whole house will stink of hydrocarbon fumes.

Don't consider running any dielectric fluid except the best grades of
commercial stuff, with flash suppressants and so on. Invest in a
heat-triggered fire-extinguisher bottle (they're sold on the EDM
aftermarket). Resolve not to leave the thing running untended. Really. And
then buy another fire extinguisher.

EDM is great stuff. It's no more dangerous than the character running it,
which is to say, you have to understand the machine and how many kinds of
foolish mistakes can cause a fire. There are quite a few. But a D10 would be
a hell of a nice home-shop machine for someone who uses his head and who
takes the time to learn before throwing the switch.

It's a specialized tool that gives you extraordinary geometric machining
capability in exchange for *very* slow metal removal rates, messiness, and
some fire risk.

Their primary use in commercial work is in making injection molds and other
production tools. Before putting your money down, though, read about the
process so you know what you're getting into.

--
Ed Huntress

What type of finish does one get with EDM? Any pcitures on the web? Is
this something that the average guy could have in his shop? Any bizarre
requirements?


I've had an EDM in my home shop for several years. Its great for that stuff
you can't do any other way. Inside splines, square holes, burn taps, simple
molds (pour in resin). I only use it three or four times a year and I've
never gotten proficient at it. Run it good enoough to just burn something is
simple; good enough for an injection mold with great surface finish and
little electrode wear is quite another.

Karl

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:17:01 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

SNIP
They do catch on fire if you get a little loose with your
shop hygiene. They also catch on fire sometimes, anyway. And don't put one
in a basement shop. Your whole house will stink of hydrocarbon fumes.

Not sure what you mean by "shop hygiene", but poorly filtered dirty
EDM fluid does seem more prone, but maybe that's because the currents
are higher?

Commercial EDM oils don't instantly "catch fire", but rather start
with little puffs of wispy flames of hot vapours bubbling up in a
flooded tank operation, or surface flames-ups for a few seconds in
surface flooding burns. Left long enough, there will be a fire, but
not instantly. That's why most EDM's have a "flame sensor" in the
safety circuit, providing some bozo hasn't jumped it out or turned it
to face away from the work area.

Kerosene is a greater real hazard, and it "stinks".

Water as a dielectric won't catch fire, but doesn't carry heat and
swarf as well either.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

"Brian Lawson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:17:01 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

SNIP
They do catch on fire if you get a little loose with your
shop hygiene. They also catch on fire sometimes, anyway. And don't put
one
in a basement shop. Your whole house will stink of hydrocarbon fumes.

Not sure what you mean by "shop hygiene", but poorly filtered dirty
EDM fluid does seem more prone, but maybe that's because the currents
are higher?

I don't know what, specifically, makes dirty dielectric more prone to fires.
But I was talking more about spills and films of dielectric oil on the
machine. They spread the fire quickly.


Commercial EDM oils don't instantly "catch fire", but rather start
with little puffs of wispy flames of hot vapours bubbling up in a
flooded tank operation, or surface flames-ups for a few seconds in
surface flooding burns. Left long enough, there will be a fire, but
not instantly. That's why most EDM's have a "flame sensor" in the
safety circuit, providing some bozo hasn't jumped it out or turned it
to face away from the work area.

Two caveats: First, most EDM fires appear to start when the work is NOT
properly flooded and submerged -- something that neophytes are prone to do.
Second, a lot of small-time EDMers have used kerosene for EDM fluid, and
some probably still do. Someone who doesn't know the story, told that
kerosene is an effective EDM dielectric (it is), might be inclined to try
it. It also makes a great fire starter and a fast ride to burning your shop
down.

Here's something a European EDM sales exec once told me, that I'll never
forget. He was in charge of his company's business in developing countries
in Asia. "I never have trouble finding the EDM shops in a city in that part
of the world," he told me. "Just before the plane lands, I look for the
columns of smoke..."

They may have a completely fireproof oil-based EDM dielectric now (I have no
idea), but the ones I have experience with were flame *retardant*, and not
flameproof. They're hard to get started but they will burn.

Kerosene is a greater real hazard, and it "stinks".

The commercial dielectrics doubtless have improved since I was involved in
EDM, but we used the best stuff that money could buy. Running our machines
'round the clock, the kerosene or related smell built up, despite the
deodorizing and odor-masking stuff they put in it.


Water as a dielectric won't catch fire, but doesn't carry heat and
swarf as well either.

Well, actually it does conduct heat much better than oil. But you need a
power supply designed for it, and it has its limitations in sinker-type EDM
work. I doubt if you could run a D10 with water...at least, for very long.

--
Ed Huntress

Thanks for the info. I don't think this is something I'll jump on, but the
thread is interesting.

Peter


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
"Brian Lawson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:17:01 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

SNIP
They do catch on fire if you get a little loose with your
shop hygiene. They also catch on fire sometimes, anyway. And don't put
one
in a basement shop. Your whole house will stink of hydrocarbon fumes.

Not sure what you mean by "shop hygiene", but poorly filtered dirty
EDM fluid does seem more prone, but maybe that's because the currents
are higher?

I don't know what, specifically, makes dirty dielectric more prone to
fires.
But I was talking more about spills and films of dielectric oil on the
machine. They spread the fire quickly.


Commercial EDM oils don't instantly "catch fire", but rather start
with little puffs of wispy flames of hot vapours bubbling up in a
flooded tank operation, or surface flames-ups for a few seconds in
surface flooding burns. Left long enough, there will be a fire, but
not instantly. That's why most EDM's have a "flame sensor" in the
safety circuit, providing some bozo hasn't jumped it out or turned it
to face away from the work area.

Two caveats: First, most EDM fires appear to start when the work is NOT
properly flooded and submerged -- something that neophytes are prone to
do.
Second, a lot of small-time EDMers have used kerosene for EDM fluid, and
some probably still do. Someone who doesn't know the story, told that
kerosene is an effective EDM dielectric (it is), might be inclined to try
it. It also makes a great fire starter and a fast ride to burning your
shop
down.

Here's something a European EDM sales exec once told me, that I'll never
forget. He was in charge of his company's business in developing countries
in Asia. "I never have trouble finding the EDM shops in a city in that
part
of the world," he told me. "Just before the plane lands, I look for the
columns of smoke..."

They may have a completely fireproof oil-based EDM dielectric now (I have
no
idea), but the ones I have experience with were flame *retardant*, and not
flameproof. They're hard to get started but they will burn.

Kerosene is a greater real hazard, and it "stinks".

The commercial dielectrics doubtless have improved since I was involved in
EDM, but we used the best stuff that money could buy. Running our machines
'round the clock, the kerosene or related smell built up, despite the
deodorizing and odor-masking stuff they put in it.


Water as a dielectric won't catch fire, but doesn't carry heat and
swarf as well either.

Well, actually it does conduct heat much better than oil. But you need a
power supply designed for it, and it has its limitations in sinker-type
EDM
work. I doubt if you could run a D10 with water...at least, for very long.

--
Ed Huntress

Peter Grey wrote:
What type of finish does one get with EDM? Any pcitures on the web? Is
this something that the average guy could have in his shop? Any bizarre
requirements?

Peter

With the right EDM fluid, polished, mirror finish.
Great advantage for molds for polishing time and ease.
Also, EDM don't care about material hardness. Some times though
materials, like titanium, carbide can be EDM-d with great ease, vs.
conventional machining.
I bored 1/16" (+/-.001")holes through 1" thick Titanium in 1-2 hours,
using cooper-tungsten electrode.
I have over 10 years experience with EDM sinkers.

Julius


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Charmilles-Singl...cmdZV iewItem

Ive done business with these folks before. They will often take
significantly less if the item doesnt sell on Ebay.

Shrug

Ask for Yavone

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner


/-

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:30:02 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

I don't know what, specifically, makes dirty dielectric more prone to fires.

Probably catalytic cracking of the fluid by the fines
acting as catalysts.
--
Cliff

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:30:02 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

kerosene

Jet fuels are mostly "kerosenes".
They vary a lot based on their flash point .... for cold
weather they use fuels with more volatiles, such as benzene.
--
Cliff

With the right EDM fluid, polished, mirror finish.
Great advantage for molds for polishing time and ease.


Not with that machine you won't.

I've got a hurco edm with computer controlled orbiting head I'd get rid of
if anybody is interested.

Dave Lyon wrote:
With the right EDM fluid, polished, mirror finish.
Great advantage for molds for polishing time and ease.


Not with that machine you won't.

The ones with the optional power supply would do a nice job ( about 12 Ra)
but compared to todays technology you wouldn't be able to afford the time.
Fully configured, a D-10 had three seperate power supplies in a single
cabinet as well as a little "add on" box that had to be plugged in.

When these machines came out, they were the cats ass. They would make a
great home machine today and they might be good for someone with little need
for EDM but compared to the latest and greatest they are an
electromechanical Rube Goldberg device.

I would not, however, want to have to get one fixed. Repair parts probably
cost more than the used machine would and you'll have one hell of a time
finding a service technician that knows what's up.


--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:09:17 GMT, "Dave Lyon"
wrote:

I've got a hurco edm with computer controlled orbiting head I'd get rid of
if anybody is interested.

Ask Bing ..
--
Cliff

Gunner Asch wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Charmilles-Singl...cmdZV iewItem

Ive done business with these folks before. They will often take
significantly less if the item doesnt sell on Ebay.

Shrug

Ask for Yavone

Gunner

The seller of this EDM states: "This system appears to be in fair to
good cosmetic condition but has not yet been tested." No statement
they intend to do so.

In straight language I think this means "As is". This means they have
no firm idea (at least no guarentee) this machine will work. This, of
course, is not uncommon.

Since you seem to know something about these folks do you feel they
would take the machine back if it should prove too expensive to
refurbish? Or perhaps offer to compensate after a certain amount of
money has been spent? Or would they allow testing "on-site"? Most
folks would rather not get left "holding the bag" any more than the
machinery dealer would.

dennis
in nca

rigger wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Charmilles-Singl...cmdZV iewItem

Ive done business with these folks before. They will often take
significantly less if the item doesnt sell on Ebay.

Shrug

Ask for Yavone

Gunner

The seller of this EDM states: "This system appears to be in fair to
good cosmetic condition but has not yet been tested." No statement
they intend to do so.

In straight language I think this means "As is". This means they have
no firm idea (at least no guarentee) this machine will work. This, of
course, is not uncommon.

Since you seem to know something about these folks do you feel they
would take the machine back if it should prove too expensive to
refurbish? Or perhaps offer to compensate after a certain amount of
money has been spent? Or would they allow testing "on-site"? Most
folks would rather not get left "holding the bag" any more than the
machinery dealer would.

You should also check to see that the 380V Main Power transformer is
included. They were delivered both with and without this.
If it has the transformer from the MTB it will be easy to spot as it's part
of the machine if I recall correctly. It's been a while since I saw one of
these.

--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com

On 14 Dec 2005 10:24:37 -0800, "rigger" wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Charmilles-Singl...cmdZV iewItem

Ive done business with these folks before. They will often take
significantly less if the item doesnt sell on Ebay.

Shrug

Ask for Yavone

Gunner

The seller of this EDM states: "This system appears to be in fair to
good cosmetic condition but has not yet been tested." No statement
they intend to do so.

In straight language I think this means "As is". This means they have
no firm idea (at least no guarentee) this machine will work. This, of
course, is not uncommon.

Since you seem to know something about these folks do you feel they
would take the machine back if it should prove too expensive to
refurbish? Or perhaps offer to compensate after a certain amount of
money has been spent? Or would they allow testing "on-site"? Most
folks would rather not get left "holding the bag" any more than the
machinery dealer would.

dennis
in nca

Its a fair amount of money..so give her a call and ask. It cant hurt a
thing.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Gunner Asch wrote:
On 14 Dec 2005 10:24:37 -0800, "rigger" wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Charmilles-Singl...cmdZV iewItem

Ive done business with these folks before. They will often take
significantly less if the item doesnt sell on Ebay.

Shrug

Ask for Yavone

Gunner

The seller of this EDM states: "This system appears to be in fair to
good cosmetic condition but has not yet been tested." No statement
they intend to do so.

In straight language I think this means "As is". This means they
have no firm idea (at least no guarentee) this machine will work.
This, of course, is not uncommon.

Since you seem to know something about these folks do you feel they
would take the machine back if it should prove too expensive to
refurbish? Or perhaps offer to compensate after a certain amount of
money has been spent? Or would they allow testing "on-site"? Most
folks would rather not get left "holding the bag" any more than the
machinery dealer would.

dennis
in nca

Its a fair amount of money..so give her a call and ask. It cant hurt a
thing.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

That's a clean little machine Mark. In 1978 this was the state of the art
in sinker EDM power suply technology.

If it is 100 percent it's worth the asking price but if it needs any work at
all it's not worth much more than a grand or 1,500.00 at the most. The
transformer, BTW, is in the lower part of the magnetics cabinet and the
little box on top of it is the microfinishing power supply/servo control set
up.

It looks like a 10 Amp (current to the electrode) supply with both high
(180) and low (90) voltage. That means you can do "no wear" roughing. It
could be 25 amps but I can't tell from the photo's.
You have to be careful with these machines if you do because they will
actually build material on the electrode if you aren't careful when you run
no wear. When that happens you end up with some really nasty DC arcs. Big,
deep, nasty holes blown in your part.

The flush unit also has both pressure and suction which is very handy. It
takes suction to get the best finishes because your spark gap is usually
nearly zero. The gage on the tank is the gage for both.

These things usually have a base that everything but the pumps and tank are
mounted to/on. I dont see that in the pictures. You could bench mount the
thing pretty easily though. This would definitely be something cool to have
for gun porting and other home shop applications.

--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com

John R. Carroll wrote:
Dave Lyon wrote:

With the right EDM fluid, polished, mirror finish.
Great advantage for molds for polishing time and ease.


Not with that machine you won't.


The ones with the optional power supply would do a nice job ( about 12 Ra)
but compared to todays technology you wouldn't be able to afford the time.
Fully configured, a D-10 had three seperate power supplies in a single
cabinet as well as a little "add on" box that had to be plugged in.

When these machines came out, they were the cats ass. They would make a
great home machine today and they might be good for someone with little need
for EDM but compared to the latest and greatest they are an
electromechanical Rube Goldberg device.

I would not, however, want to have to get one fixed. Repair parts probably
cost more than the used machine would and you'll have one hell of a time
finding a service technician that knows what's up.


That's true, for Charmills, very difficult to get service and expensive.
We had to get guys from Chicago to fly out. Even than some young guy
showed up with a voltmeter, no experience, spending lot of time on the
phone how to fix the thing.
Julius

Ed Huntress wrote:

"Brian Lawson" wrote in message
.. .


Water as a dielectric won't catch fire, but doesn't carry heat and

swarf as well either.



Well, actually it does conduct heat much better than oil. But you need a
power supply designed for it, and it has its limitations in sinker-type EDM
work. I doubt if you could run a D10 with water...at least, for very long.

--
Ed Huntress


Ed and whoever else wants to chime in,

I'm starting in to make an edm, following this guy's approach:
http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks9/edm/
This is really a well thought out book and a nice simple edm design for
the home shop. Not like I have a specific task in mind for it, but it
looks like a fun project.

I have been a bit concerned about the fluid. Since I'm an electroniker,
I have to ask--what kind of power supply works best with water? If you
can, give me the electrical particulars; timing, dutycycle, voltage etc.

Thanks,
Steve

"Steve Smith" wrote in message
...


Ed Huntress wrote:

"Brian Lawson" wrote in message
.. .


Water as a dielectric won't catch fire, but doesn't carry heat and

swarf as well either.



Well, actually it does conduct heat much better than oil. But you need a
power supply designed for it, and it has its limitations in sinker-type
EDM
work. I doubt if you could run a D10 with water...at least, for very
long.

--
Ed Huntress


Ed and whoever else wants to chime in,

I'm starting in to make an edm, following this guy's approach:
http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks9/edm/
This is really a well thought out book and a nice simple edm design for
the home shop. Not like I have a specific task in mind for it, but it
looks like a fun project.

I have been a bit concerned about the fluid. Since I'm an electroniker,
I have to ask--what kind of power supply works best with water? If you
can, give me the electrical particulars; timing, dutycycle, voltage etc.

That machine looks like a great project, Steve. One or two other people who
have stopped in here were building those things. I'll be really interested
in how they work.

As for water dielectric, you'll need to get an update from somebody else. As
with many things, my info is historical and fading fast. g

Here's some 20-year-old info: Water dielectric allows fast cutting but it's
hell on electrodes. As of today (20 years ago g), it was restricted to
wirecut and to fast hole eroding, with wire-like electrodes that you plunge
with a lot of flushing. The water has to be deionized, although there have
been a variety of snake-oil additives that supposedly speed cutting and
which allow a lot of current flow.

I don't recall how wire EDM or hole-poppers were set up in terms of power
supply parameters. That's stuff I've long since forgotten. IIRC, the machine
you're working on is an RC relaxer circuit. If you want to try water, there
are only a few things you can adjust, so I'd just have at it.

Wirecut is a lot older than many people realize, BTW. Andrews Engineering
had a wirecut attachment back around 1958 or '59. Charmilles may have had
one earlier, and I know that Elox was working on it at least by 1960.

Agie put the pieces together with CNC and made the whole thing practical,
around 1971 or so.

Excuse me for going off on an historical tangent...

--
Ed Huntress

I have an older Hansvedt EDM, its very safe to use in a home shop,, but it
may not be practical for most. I don't have any odors, or fires.

With the tank and all the equipment they take up alot of room. They are
expensive to maintain. (If you need to replace the EDM fluid expect to spend
about $800 for a fluid change for the good stuff.) The hydraulic systems can
be expensive to repair. The dielectic pump is a special design, positive
displacement that can handle abrasive particles in the stream.

They require alot of tweaking, lots of knobs to turn. Also, the finish can
be less than expectations. I had to make my electrode holders. And drilling
graphite electodes to provide proper flushing makes me cringe when I get the
dust on my lathe. Have had some workpieces damaged due to arcing. Also, my
machine has a quirk of jogging the electrode into the work once in awhile.


Tony
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Charmilles-Singl...cmdZV iewItem

Ive done business with these folks before. They will often take
significantly less if the item doesnt sell on Ebay.

Shrug

Ask for Yavone

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Tony wrote:
I have an older Hansvedt EDM, its very safe to use in a home shop,, but it
may not be practical for most. I don't have any odors, or fires.

With the tank and all the equipment they take up alot of room. They are
expensive to maintain. (If you need to replace the EDM fluid expect to spend
about $800 for a fluid change for the good stuff.) The hydraulic systems can
be expensive to repair. The dielectic pump is a special design, positive
displacement that can handle abrasive particles in the stream.

They require alot of tweaking, lots of knobs to turn. Also, the finish can
be less than expectations. I had to make my electrode holders. And drilling
graphite electodes to provide proper flushing makes me cringe when I get the
dust on my lathe. Have had some workpieces damaged due to arcing. Also, my
machine has a quirk of jogging the electrode into the work once in awhile.


Tony
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Charmilles-Singl...cmdZV iewItem

Ive done business with these folks before. They will often take
significantly less if the item doesnt sell on Ebay.

Shrug

Ask for Yavone

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner




Synthetic EDM fluid is available from Germany, green colored. Expect to
pay 3x the price of regular fluid.
Some one brought a sample once from a tool show, but my company never
got into it.
Julius

dust on my lathe. Have had some workpieces damaged due to arcing. Also, my
machine has a quirk of jogging the electrode into the work once in awhile.



Reminds me of a story.....


About 24 years ago, when I was an apprentice, and about 17 years old, we had
a Handsvet that would drift (the ram would go down) sometimes. We had made
this aware to the boss on multiple occasions, but he was too cheap to fix
it. I had my Mititoyo indicator in the ram to indicate a part, and needed a
rubber hammer from the other room to adjust the plate I was working on. I
went to get the hammer, and when I came back, the machine had smashed my
indicator. I was pretty ticked. After all, I was making all of about $3.35
per hour, and tools were hard to come by for me. I stomped into the bosses'
office, and demanded that he get my indicator fixed. I was kinda shocked.
Not only did he send it off to get fixed, he loaned me his Best Test to use
until mine came back. His indicator was rather special to him. He had even
memorized the serial number on it because it ended in 187. He called it his
3/16ths indicator.

A couple of days later I was using his indicator to straighten a plate on a
mill. I couldn't get that stupid plate to move, so I rared back and gave it
a good whack with the rubber hammer. You guessed it, I missed the plate
completely and nailed his indicator. Pieces flew all over the shop. I was
shocked, and scared. There was no way I could afford to replace his
indicator, and there weren't enough pieces left of it to have it repaired.
My mind kept playing back the little fit I threw when "his machine" broke my
indicator.

I found a small paper sack, and gathered all of the pieces. I carried it
into his office, and handed it to him. I offered to replace it, but he
refused. I thought he was going to cry.


Roll the clock forward about 18 years. I had since left that shop, and
worked at a couple more. I was contemplating starting my own, so I went back
to my old boss to ask for some advice. He was still running his little shop,
and things hadn't changed much since I was there last. As we talked, I
followed him into his office. There on the back corner of his desk was an
old brown paper bag that he wanted to show me. Sure enough, inside the bag
were crumpled pieces of his old indicator. He had never taken it off of his
desk!

He still won't let me buy that thing from him, and everytime I see him, he
points the bag out to me again.

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:49:19 GMT, "Dave Lyon"
wrote:

Reminds me of a story.....

It was a good one.
--
Cliff

Dave said:

His indicator was rather special to him. He had even
memorized the serial number on it because it ended in 187. He called it
his 3/16ths indicator.


I checked my Starrett and found it has no serial number. Sorry I can't
help.

dennis
in nca

Ok I think I have an equivalent story
There is some metal content here so just bear with me I am prone to
rambling
One of my First jobs was in a small sign shop in Michigan. We made
mostly traffic signals and some neon
We had been working on these these multicolor sign faces for an Ice
cream shop that had moved into an abandoned gas station.Nice folks
anxious to get their sign up finally .
So we truck the thing a few blocks to the Ice Cream shop and get set up
to hang it up on the pole
They're excited and so am I and I wanna get the project over with
So as my superior is consulting with the shop man i proceed to untie the
the new doubluble sided sign from the bed
of the boom truck, Lets just say gravity was not my friend that that
day
This brand new sign came crashing off the truck and shattered into alot
of pieces. I think my life and maybe some other lives flashed before me
in slow motion.
I knew I was was screwed and was prepared to quit.
We picked it all up and went back to the shop.
I told my big boss that it was all my fault and he should fire me right
then and there. Well he had been there before and tried to calm me down
with a story of his own mistakes
Sees one day they got a delivery of aluminum sheets. They were suspended
on an overhead trolly crane.
He was a good rigger and a master welder but on this day he may have
been distracted and didn't notice that his fathers new Cadilac was
parked a little too close to this hanging bundle of aluminum
Gravity takes over as it always does and the metal crushes the car.
Father : not happy
Son : scared
Other people: laughing their asses off, which probabaly didn't help
He kept me on for a few more months
we repaired the ice cream sign and the man was pleased but he went out
of business a few months later Nobody wants to buy softserve in the
middle of winter

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:28:17 -0800, (daniel
peterman) wrote:

He was a good rigger and a master welder but on this day he may have
been distracted and didn't notice that his fathers new Cadilac was
parked a little too close to this hanging bundle of aluminum
Gravity takes over as it always does and the metal crushes the car.
Father : not happy
Son : scared
Construction company owner visits the job site where motor scrapers
are being push loaded in the borrow pit. Unfortunately, he hops out of
his Caddy in the wrong place and the pusher dozer nails it broad side
on his way back (in reverse) to pick up the next scraper. The only
comment was "I guess I picked a bad place to park".
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Ed Huntress wrote:

"Steve Smith" wrote in message
...


Ed Huntress wrote:



"Brian Lawson" wrote in message
...


Water as a dielectric won't catch fire, but doesn't carry heat and



swarf as well either.




Well, actually it does conduct heat much better than oil. But you need a
power supply designed for it, and it has its limitations in sinker-type


EDM


work. I doubt if you could run a D10 with water...at least, for very


long.


--
Ed Huntress




Ed and whoever else wants to chime in,

I'm starting in to make an edm, following this guy's approach:
http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks9/edm/
This is really a well thought out book and a nice simple edm design for
the home shop. Not like I have a specific task in mind for it, but it
looks like a fun project.

I have been a bit concerned about the fluid. Since I'm an electroniker,
I have to ask--what kind of power supply works best with water? If you
can, give me the electrical particulars; timing, dutycycle, voltage etc.



That machine looks like a great project, Steve. One or two other people who
have stopped in here were building those things. I'll be really interested
in how they work.

As for water dielectric, you'll need to get an update from somebody else. As
with many things, my info is historical and fading fast. g

Here's some 20-year-old info: Water dielectric allows fast cutting but it's
hell on electrodes. As of today (20 years ago g), it was restricted to
wirecut and to fast hole eroding, with wire-like electrodes that you plunge
with a lot of flushing. The water has to be deionized, although there have
been a variety of snake-oil additives that supposedly speed cutting and
which allow a lot of current flow.

I don't recall how wire EDM or hole-poppers were set up in terms of power
supply parameters. That's stuff I've long since forgotten. IIRC, the machine
you're working on is an RC relaxer circuit. If you want to try water, there
are only a few things you can adjust, so I'd just have at it.

Wirecut is a lot older than many people realize, BTW. Andrews Engineering
had a wirecut attachment back around 1958 or '59. Charmilles may have had
one earlier, and I know that Elox was working on it at least by 1960.

Agie put the pieces together with CNC and made the whole thing practical,
around 1971 or so.

Excuse me for going off on an historical tangent...

--
Ed Huntress



Thanks Ed. A few clues to get me started anyway.

Steve