Hi all,

I'm trying to repair a wall clock. It's a "Dufa", built by Etzold &
Popitz of Germany in the 1920s or '30s. It's very similar to this one on
eBay at the moment:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=6584307091

Although it isn't an exceptionally valuable clock, it keeps good time
and was bought new by my great great uncle for his company office, so
I'm keen to get it fixed. The problem is that the main spring has
snapped. We got a clockmaker to quote for the repair, but the price was
high so I want to have a go myself.

To get the spring out one either needs to remove the clock face from the
mechanism, or remove the back plate from the mechanism. The former is
much more attractive as you don't have to disturb any of the gears. The
problem is that small taper pins (1/16" diameter at most) have been used
to attach the mechanism to the face, and also to assemble much of the
mechanism. However I disassemble the mechanism I will need to remove
several of these pins. I know the obvious method of removal is with a
pair of long nose pliers, but I tried this without success. I don't want
to pull too hard because then if the pin comes free, my other hand will
probably fly into the clock mechanism and cause some damage (knowing my
luck). A brief inspection suggests to me that the pins are harder than
mild steel and that they were hammered into place. I can't hammer them
out as the narrow ends all face into the clock mechanism.

Any thoughts? How do professional clockmakers do it? Suggestions would
be appreciated...

Best wishes,

Chris

Christopher Tidy wrote:
Hi all,

I'm trying to repair a wall clock. It's a "Dufa", built by Etzold &
Popitz of Germany in the 1920s or '30s. It's very similar to this one
on eBay at the moment:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=6584307091

Although it isn't an exceptionally valuable clock, it keeps good time
and was bought new by my great great uncle for his company office, so
I'm keen to get it fixed. The problem is that the main spring has
snapped. We got a clockmaker to quote for the repair, but the price
was high so I want to have a go myself.

To get the spring out one either needs to remove the clock face from
the mechanism, or remove the back plate from the mechanism. The
former is much more attractive as you don't have to disturb any of
the gears. The problem is that small taper pins (1/16" diameter at
most) have been used to attach the mechanism to the face, and also to
assemble much of the mechanism. However I disassemble the mechanism I
will need to remove several of these pins. I know the obvious method
of removal is with a pair of long nose pliers, but I tried this
without success. I don't want to pull too hard because then if the
pin comes free, my other hand will probably fly into the clock
mechanism and cause some damage (knowing my luck). A brief inspection
suggests to me that the pins are harder than mild steel and that they
were hammered into place. I can't hammer them out as the narrow ends
all face into the clock mechanism.
Any thoughts? How do professional clockmakers do it? Suggestions would
be appreciated...

Best wishes,

Chris

U-shaped apparatus , with one leg drilled and tapped for a small , hollow ,
screw . Hollow screw slides over big end of pin , other leg of "U" pushes
against the small end as you tighten (hollow) screw against side of shaft
that pin is in ...
Did any of that make sense ?
--
Snag aka OSG #1
'76 FLH "Bag Lady"
BS132 SENS NEWT
"A hand shift is a manly shift ."
shamelessly stolen
none to one to reply

Snag wrote:
Christopher Tidy wrote:

Hi all,

I'm trying to repair a wall clock. It's a "Dufa", built by Etzold &
Popitz of Germany in the 1920s or '30s. It's very similar to this one
on eBay at the moment:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=6584307091

Although it isn't an exceptionally valuable clock, it keeps good time
and was bought new by my great great uncle for his company office, so
I'm keen to get it fixed. The problem is that the main spring has
snapped. We got a clockmaker to quote for the repair, but the price
was high so I want to have a go myself.

To get the spring out one either needs to remove the clock face from
the mechanism, or remove the back plate from the mechanism. The
former is much more attractive as you don't have to disturb any of
the gears. The problem is that small taper pins (1/16" diameter at
most) have been used to attach the mechanism to the face, and also to
assemble much of the mechanism. However I disassemble the mechanism I
will need to remove several of these pins. I know the obvious method
of removal is with a pair of long nose pliers, but I tried this
without success. I don't want to pull too hard because then if the
pin comes free, my other hand will probably fly into the clock
mechanism and cause some damage (knowing my luck). A brief inspection
suggests to me that the pins are harder than mild steel and that they
were hammered into place. I can't hammer them out as the narrow ends
all face into the clock mechanism.
Any thoughts? How do professional clockmakers do it? Suggestions would
be appreciated...

Best wishes,

Chris


U-shaped apparatus , with one leg drilled and tapped for a small , hollow ,
screw . Hollow screw slides over big end of pin , other leg of "U" pushes
against the small end as you tighten (hollow) screw against side of shaft
that pin is in ...
Did any of that make sense ?

Thanks, Snag. That makes sense. Do you know if this is a commonly used
tool with a name, or just something you saw once?

Chris

Christopher Tidy wrote:
Snag wrote:
Christopher Tidy wrote:

Hi all,

I'm trying to repair a wall clock. It's a "Dufa", built by Etzold &
Popitz of Germany in the 1920s or '30s. It's very similar to this
one on eBay at the moment:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=6584307091

Although it isn't an exceptionally valuable clock, it keeps good
time and was bought new by my great great uncle for his company
office, so I'm keen to get it fixed. The problem is that the main
spring has snapped. We got a clockmaker to quote for the repair,
but the price was high so I want to have a go myself.

To get the spring out one either needs to remove the clock face from
the mechanism, or remove the back plate from the mechanism. The
former is much more attractive as you don't have to disturb any of
the gears. The problem is that small taper pins (1/16" diameter at
most) have been used to attach the mechanism to the face, and also
to assemble much of the mechanism. However I disassemble the
mechanism I will need to remove several of these pins. I know the
obvious method of removal is with a pair of long nose pliers, but I
tried this without success. I don't want to pull too hard because
then if the pin comes free, my other hand will probably fly into
the clock mechanism and cause some damage (knowing my luck). A
brief inspection suggests to me that the pins are harder than mild
steel and that they were hammered into place. I can't hammer them
out as the narrow ends all face into the clock mechanism.
Any thoughts? How do professional clockmakers do it? Suggestions
would be appreciated...

Best wishes,

Chris


U-shaped apparatus , with one leg drilled and tapped for a small ,
hollow , screw . Hollow screw slides over big end of pin , other leg
of "U" pushes against the small end as you tighten (hollow) screw
against side of shaft that pin is in ...
Did any of that make sense ?

Thanks, Snag. That makes sense. Do you know if this is a commonly used
tool with a name, or just something you saw once?

Chris

I might have seen one once ... don't recall . Just seemed like a sensible
way to apply pressure against the pin .
I'm just chock full of ideas that someone else thought of first ... bseg
--
Snag aka OSG #1
'76 FLH "Bag Lady"
BS132 SENS NEWT
"A hand shift is a manly shift ."
shamelessly stolen
none to one to reply

I've seen taper pins that had been in for awhile that would *not* come out. I
destroyed a part once and sawed it in half right down the length of the taper
pin and tried to knock it loose. No dice. I mean I *really* tried. It seemed to
have welded itself in there somehow. That was steel on steel, though. - GWE

Christopher Tidy wrote:

Hi all,

I'm trying to repair a wall clock. It's a "Dufa", built by Etzold &
Popitz of Germany in the 1920s or '30s. It's very similar to this one on
eBay at the moment:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=6584307091

Although it isn't an exceptionally valuable clock, it keeps good time
and was bought new by my great great uncle for his company office, so
I'm keen to get it fixed. The problem is that the main spring has
snapped. We got a clockmaker to quote for the repair, but the price was
high so I want to have a go myself.

To get the spring out one either needs to remove the clock face from the
mechanism, or remove the back plate from the mechanism. The former is
much more attractive as you don't have to disturb any of the gears. The
problem is that small taper pins (1/16" diameter at most) have been used
to attach the mechanism to the face, and also to assemble much of the
mechanism. However I disassemble the mechanism I will need to remove
several of these pins. I know the obvious method of removal is with a
pair of long nose pliers, but I tried this without success. I don't want
to pull too hard because then if the pin comes free, my other hand will
probably fly into the clock mechanism and cause some damage (knowing my
luck). A brief inspection suggests to me that the pins are harder than
mild steel and that they were hammered into place. I can't hammer them
out as the narrow ends all face into the clock mechanism.

Any thoughts? How do professional clockmakers do it? Suggestions would
be appreciated...

Best wishes,

Chris

Clock taper pins are usually steel in a brass dowel pin. I've had good luck
over the years with a sturdy pair of needle nose pliers. You apply pressure
to the small end of the pin with the very end of one jaw, while letting the
other jaw rest against the side of the large end of the pin. This way
you're squeezing the pin into the brass dowel. I wouldn't use this method
on a really valuable clock, because if the pliers slip it can put a nasty
scrape on the side of the brass dowel. OTOH, it usually gets the pin out
without a major catastrophe.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I've seen taper pins that had been in for awhile that would *not* come
out. I destroyed a part once and sawed it in half right down the length of
the taper pin and tried to knock it loose. No dice. I mean I *really*
tried. It seemed to have welded itself in there somehow. That was steel on
steel, though. - GWE

Christopher Tidy wrote:

Hi all,

I'm trying to repair a wall clock. It's a "Dufa", built by Etzold &
Popitz of Germany in the 1920s or '30s. It's very similar to this one on
eBay at the moment:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=6584307091

Although it isn't an exceptionally valuable clock, it keeps good time and
was bought new by my great great uncle for his company office, so I'm
keen to get it fixed. The problem is that the main spring has snapped. We
got a clockmaker to quote for the repair, but the price was high so I
want to have a go myself.

To get the spring out one either needs to remove the clock face from the
mechanism, or remove the back plate from the mechanism. The former is
much more attractive as you don't have to disturb any of the gears. The
problem is that small taper pins (1/16" diameter at most) have been used
to attach the mechanism to the face, and also to assemble much of the
mechanism. However I disassemble the mechanism I will need to remove
several of these pins. I know the obvious method of removal is with a
pair of long nose pliers, but I tried this without success. I don't want
to pull too hard because then if the pin comes free, my other hand will
probably fly into the clock mechanism and cause some damage (knowing my
luck). A brief inspection suggests to me that the pins are harder than
mild steel and that they were hammered into place. I can't hammer them
out as the narrow ends all face into the clock mechanism.

Any thoughts? How do professional clockmakers do it? Suggestions would be
appreciated...

Best wishes,

Chris

Bob Chilcoat wrote:
Clock taper pins are usually steel in a brass dowel pin. I've had good luck
over the years with a sturdy pair of needle nose pliers. You apply pressure
to the small end of the pin with the very end of one jaw, while letting the
other jaw rest against the side of the large end of the pin. This way
you're squeezing the pin into the brass dowel. I wouldn't use this method
on a really valuable clock, because if the pliers slip it can put a nasty
scrape on the side of the brass dowel. OTOH, it usually gets the pin out
without a major catastrophe.

A few horological sites mentioned adhesives (locktite etc.).
Mainly for newer plates but who knows what has been done by others.
Maybe a little heat would help, with sinks in place of course.

I use electronic nippers - like side cutters, but no bevel on
outside surface, get a good pry on something, don't cut the
pin off. If head of pin doesn't protrude beyond edge of plate,
I can usually get something in to push from the other side,
sometimes needlenose pushing on the thin end of the pin,
using the post for the other tang. Haven't lost one yet,
but I DO have a rusty 1720-vintage musical-bells clock in the
shop that suffered heat and steam damage in a fire.... Should
start on it this week. May have to go with electrolytic rust
removal if all else fails/ mark


Christopher Tidy wrote:

Hi all,

I'm trying to repair a wall clock. It's a "Dufa", built by Etzold &
Popitz of Germany in the 1920s or '30s. It's very similar to this one on
eBay at the moment:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=6584307091

Although it isn't an exceptionally valuable clock, it keeps good time
and was bought new by my great great uncle for his company office, so
I'm keen to get it fixed. The problem is that the main spring has
snapped. We got a clockmaker to quote for the repair, but the price was
high so I want to have a go myself.

To get the spring out one either needs to remove the clock face from the
mechanism, or remove the back plate from the mechanism. The former is
much more attractive as you don't have to disturb any of the gears. The
problem is that small taper pins (1/16" diameter at most) have been used
to attach the mechanism to the face, and also to assemble much of the
mechanism. However I disassemble the mechanism I will need to remove
several of these pins. I know the obvious method of removal is with a
pair of long nose pliers, but I tried this without success. I don't want
to pull too hard because then if the pin comes free, my other hand will
probably fly into the clock mechanism and cause some damage (knowing my
luck). A brief inspection suggests to me that the pins are harder than
mild steel and that they were hammered into place. I can't hammer them
out as the narrow ends all face into the clock mechanism.

Any thoughts? How do professional clockmakers do it? Suggestions would
be appreciated...

Best wishes,

Chris

Need to use some stout small needle nosed pliwrs. If possible, push the
small end a bit to see if it comes out that way if you have the room. If
not, the it is just pull on the fat end.
A set ofo flush cutters can also be used but don't try to close them too
hard. Clamping right at the post and using it as leverage is a good way in
either case.
I've also seen pliers with a hole in the end to hold the pin but they are
quite rare.
I've done a bit of work on pre 1850 watches so I know exactly what your
problems are.
As to the spring, if the break is in the middle, just untemper (an alcholol
flame is what the pros use( for about 3/8" either side of the break and do a
slot in one side of 1/3 of the width of the spring and a tounge wiht an
arrowhead on it on the other piece and just slip them to9gether. At least,
that is what the pros that I've seen do it. For the ends, you just reform
the end instead of making the hole and head.

--
Why do penguins walk so far to get to their nesting grounds?

Bob May wrote:
Need to use some stout small needle nosed pliwrs. If possible, push the
small end a bit to see if it comes out that way if you have the room. If
not, the it is just pull on the fat end.
A set ofo flush cutters can also be used but don't try to close them too
hard. Clamping right at the post and using it as leverage is a good way in
either case.
I've also seen pliers with a hole in the end to hold the pin but they are
quite rare.
I've done a bit of work on pre 1850 watches so I know exactly what your
problems are.
As to the spring, if the break is in the middle, just untemper (an alcholol
flame is what the pros use( for about 3/8" either side of the break and do a
slot in one side of 1/3 of the width of the spring and a tounge wiht an
arrowhead on it on the other piece and just slip them to9gether. At least,
that is what the pros that I've seen do it. For the ends, you just reform
the end instead of making the hole and head.

Thanks for the advice. I had the neat idea of trying to remove the taper
pins with a pop rivet tool, but I can't get the tool close enough. I
guess I'll have to make do with pliers or make a tool myself. Do you
know what those special pliers with a hole in them are called?

I also hadn't thought of repairing the spring. I was going to get a new one.

Best wishes,

Chris

According to Christopher Tidy :
Bob May wrote:

Thanks for the advice. I had the neat idea of trying to remove the taper
pins with a pop rivet tool, but I can't get the tool close enough. I
guess I'll have to make do with pliers or make a tool myself. Do you
know what those special pliers with a hole in them are called?

Why not modify a cheap pair of needle nose pliers yourself?
What I would do is grind or file (depending on hardness) a smooth curve
to grip the dowel without maring it, and then drill through from the
outside to the crest of the curve -- and a little into the opposite jaw,
just a dimple to keep that end from slipping off the small end of the
pin.

While you're about it -- put some tape over the outside of the
through hole to catch the pin when it lets go -- otherwise it might go
shooting into who knows where. That sort of thing is quite difficult to
find when it goes flying.

I also hadn't thought of repairing the spring. I was going to get a new one.

You may or may not be able to get a new one.

Also -- be *very* careful in unpacking the spring if it is in a
cylindrical housing. Those tend to come flying out and can hurt you if
you are in the way.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
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