It has to do with rotation of a motor....
Motor is a simple aquarium pump, submerged type, powered by AC current
of 115 VAC........2 wire power cord. Armature is the typical magnetic
type. Seems folks are dreaming that they can reverse rotation by
reversing the plug in the recepticle.......SOme have even gone to the
extremes of filing down the wide blade on the polarized plugs so they
can put plug in either way and think they are reversing
direction......Is it possible to change rotation of a AC motor like
this or not? If not, how about an explanatin why, and if it is doable,
an explanation as to how would also be appreciated........No other
mods to motor, just simply reversing plug orientation to reverse motor
rotation.....Not any need to get into the fact that the pump probbaly
would not work or work properly with a wrong rotation due to volute
design etc........


================================================== =


This is worth repeating for benefit of all newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/el.../elec-mtr.html

~Roy wrote:

It has to do with rotation of a motor....
Motor is a simple aquarium pump, submerged type, powered by AC current
of 115 VAC........2 wire power cord. Armature is the typical magnetic
type. Seems folks are dreaming that they can reverse rotation by
reversing the plug in the recepticle.......SOme have even gone to the
extremes of filing down the wide blade on the polarized plugs so they
can put plug in either way and think they are reversing
direction......Is it possible to change rotation of a AC motor like
this or not? If not, how about an explanatin why, and if it is doable,
an explanation as to how would also be appreciated........No other
mods to motor, just simply reversing plug orientation to reverse motor
rotation.....Not any need to get into the fact that the pump probbaly
would not work or work properly with a wrong rotation due to volute
design etc........


================================================== =


This is worth repeating for benefit of all newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

In article ,
(~Roy) wrote:

It has to do with rotation of a motor....
Motor is a simple aquarium pump, submerged type, powered by AC current
of 115 VAC........2 wire power cord. Armature is the typical magnetic
type. Seems folks are dreaming that they can reverse rotation by
reversing the plug in the recepticle.......SOme have even gone to the
extremes of filing down the wide blade on the polarized plugs so they
can put plug in either way and think they are reversing
direction......Is it possible to change rotation of a AC motor like
this or not? If not, how about an explanatin why, and if it is doable,
an explanation as to how would also be appreciated........No other
mods to motor, just simply reversing plug orientation to reverse motor
rotation.....Not any need to get into the fact that the pump probbaly
would not work or work properly with a wrong rotation due to volute
design etc........

For small single-phase AC motors, the direction of rotation is
controlled by the design and construction of the motor, not by the power
source.

Aquarium pump motors are usually shaded-pole induction. Look for a
shorted copper turn on at least one laminated steel field pole, covering
about one half of the poleface. It's this shorted turn that determines
the direction of rotation. To reverse rotation, move the shorted turn
to the other half face. Or take the motor apart and reassemble it with
the pole assembly reversed, if the motor construction allows this.

Joe Gwinn

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 14:44:22 GMT, (~Roy) wrote:

It has to do with rotation of a motor....
Motor is a simple aquarium pump, submerged type, powered by AC current
of 115 VAC........2 wire power cord. Armature is the typical magnetic
type. Seems folks are dreaming that they can reverse rotation by
reversing the plug in the recepticle.......SOme have even gone to the
extremes of filing down the wide blade on the polarized plugs so they
can put plug in either way and think they are reversing
direction......Is it possible to change rotation of a AC motor like
this or not? If not, how about an explanatin why, and if it is doable,
an explanation as to how would also be appreciated........No other
mods to motor, just simply reversing plug orientation to reverse motor
rotation.....Not any need to get into the fact that the pump probbaly
would not work or work properly with a wrong rotation due to volute
design etc........

Won't work - it's a shaded pole fractional horsepower motor, and AC
is not polarity sensitive that way. Your submersible pump has the
core laminations and 120V winding coil all sealed inside it's outer
casing, so there is no way to get inside and flip the core and coil
over.

The only way to reverse rotation of an open shaded-pole motor (just
like the ones used in bathroom 'fart fans' and cheap range hoods) is
to take it apart and reassemble the rotor and bearings so the shaft
faces the other side of the motor, that way the copper wire pole shade
is on the opposite side of the motor.

It's usually simpler to get the right motor, or a reverse rotation
fan blade. Because the motor makers often do dumb things like make
the screw holes asymmetric. Or they thread the bearing holder on one
side to accept the through screws that are also the motor mounting
screws, and you have to start reaming out threads, cutting down bosses
to make clearance for the nuts, shim washers... (BT, DT.)

And that simple core flip won't work if there's any sort of one-way
dog clutch hidden in the rotor shaft bearings to prevent the motor
starting in reverse. You would need to reverse the bearings, too.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

"~Roy" wrote in message
...
It has to do with rotation of a motor....
Motor is a simple aquarium pump, submerged type, powered by AC current
of 115 VAC........2 wire power cord. Armature is the typical magnetic
type. Seems folks are dreaming that they can reverse rotation by
reversing the plug in the recepticle.......SOme have even gone to the
extremes of filing down the wide blade on the polarized plugs so they
can put plug in either way and think they are reversing
direction......Is it possible to change rotation of a AC motor like
this or not? If not, how about an explanatin why, and if it is doable,
an explanation as to how would also be appreciated........No other
mods to motor, just simply reversing plug orientation to reverse motor
rotation.....Not any need to get into the fact that the pump probbaly
would not work or work properly with a wrong rotation due to volute
design etc........

Chuckle!

It's AC-------the current is already reversing at the rate of the frequency
(60 times/xec in the US)----without the motor doing anything but running.
Reversing the plug would have no effect, but could endanger someone by
applying voltage to what should be ground. That's why we have polarized
plugs------not for determining direction of rotation.

Harold

In article , Bruce L. Bergman
says...

The only way to reverse rotation of an open shaded-pole motor (just
like the ones used in bathroom 'fart fans' and cheap range hoods) is
to take it apart and reassemble the rotor and bearings so the shaft
faces the other side of the motor, that way the copper wire pole shade
is on the opposite side of the motor.

Well there is one other way. You cut the shading ring so it's no
longer continous. Then the motor can be started by hand in either
direction.

We had a dishwasher where the timer motor had this defect. It would
run in either direction, at random, when started. Sometimes I would
have to 'start' the dishwasher several times before it would head out
in the correct direction.

It was also ill-advised to stop the machine in mid-cycle, and restart
it. The standard joke was that it would run backwards and make them
dirty again.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 23 Nov 2005 14:33:13 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Bruce L. Bergman
says...

The only way to reverse rotation of an open shaded-pole motor (just
like the ones used in bathroom 'fart fans' and cheap range hoods) is
to take it apart and reassemble the rotor and bearings so the shaft
faces the other side of the motor, that way the copper wire pole shade
is on the opposite side of the motor.

Well there is one other way. You cut the shading ring so it's no
longer continous. Then the motor can be started by hand in either
direction.

We had a dishwasher where the timer motor had this defect. It would
run in either direction, at random, when started. Sometimes I would
have to 'start' the dishwasher several times before it would head out
in the correct direction.

It was also ill-advised to stop the machine in mid-cycle, and restart
it. The standard joke was that it would run backwards and make them
dirty again.

The shading pole piece probably fractured at a bend or weld, which
would cause that propensity to start in either direction. The one-way
dog clutches that they use especially on timer motors are supposed to
prevent the motor from starting in reverse, but they wear out too.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

"~Roy" wrote in message
...
It has to do with rotation of a motor....
Motor is a simple aquarium pump, submerged type, powered by AC current
of 115 VAC........2 wire power cord. Armature is the typical magnetic
type. Seems folks are dreaming that they can reverse rotation by
reversing the plug in the recepticle.......SOme have even gone to the
extremes of filing down the wide blade on the polarized plugs so they
can put plug in either way and think they are reversing
direction......Is it possible to change rotation of a AC motor like
this or not? If not, how about an explanatin why, and if it is doable,
an explanation as to how would also be appreciated........No other
mods to motor, just simply reversing plug orientation to reverse motor
rotation.....Not any need to get into the fact that the pump probbaly
would not work or work properly with a wrong rotation due to volute
design etc........


A vastly more credible reason for eliminating the "lugs" on the plug is
older 2-prong AC outlets: these don't have the oversized "slot" for the
newer "polarized" plugs.

FWIW, my 55-year-old house came with this type of socket and I've "modified"
quite a few "polarized" plugs myself. G

INstead of making a potential problem, IMNSHO it would be best to
replace those un-polarized recepticles with ones that are either made
with polarized slots or the third ground connection even if the wires
used to feed it are simply 2 conductor. Bets to keep polarity going in
the same direction..... Reducing blade width is bad practice.


On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 00:57:25 -0600, "RAM^3"
wrote:

==="~Roy" wrote in message
t...
=== It has to do with rotation of a motor....
=== Motor is a simple aquarium pump, submerged type, powered by AC current
=== of 115 VAC........2 wire power cord. Armature is the typical magnetic
=== type. Seems folks are dreaming that they can reverse rotation by
=== reversing the plug in the recepticle.......SOme have even gone to the
=== extremes of filing down the wide blade on the polarized plugs so they
=== can put plug in either way and think they are reversing
=== direction......Is it possible to change rotation of a AC motor like
=== this or not? If not, how about an explanatin why, and if it is doable,
=== an explanation as to how would also be appreciated........No other
=== mods to motor, just simply reversing plug orientation to reverse motor
=== rotation.....Not any need to get into the fact that the pump probbaly
=== would not work or work properly with a wrong rotation due to volute
=== design etc........
===
===
===A vastly more credible reason for eliminating the "lugs" on the plug is
===older 2-prong AC outlets: these don't have the oversized "slot" for the
===newer "polarized" plugs.
===
===FWIW, my 55-year-old house came with this type of socket and I've "modified"
===quite a few "polarized" plugs myself. G
===



================================================== =


This is worth repeating for benefit of all newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

In article ,
(~Roy) wrote:

It has to do with rotation of a motor....
Motor is a simple aquarium pump, submerged type, powered by AC current
of 115 VAC........2 wire power cord. Armature is the typical magnetic
type. Seems folks are dreaming that they can reverse rotation by
reversing the plug in the recepticle.......SOme have even gone to the
extremes of filing down the wide blade on the polarized plugs so they
can put plug in either way and think they are reversing
direction......Is it possible to change rotation of a AC motor like
this or not?

In the *HUGE* majority of cases, there's a one-word answer. That word is
"No".

Although it *CAN* be done in other ways, reversing an AC motor *USUALLY*
means some relatively major surgery on the guts of the motor - Just
flipping the plug over simply isn't going to do it.


If not, how about an explanatin why,

Far too involved to try to answer in a newsgroup posting, particularly
since we have no idea what level of knowledge you have about the basics
behind how motors work. Suggest you try google - "Reversing AC motors"
seems like a good starting place

--
Don Bruder - - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd for more info

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 06:30:20 -0800, Don Bruder
wrote:

If not, how about an explanatin why,

Far too involved to try to answer in a newsgroup posting, particularly
since we have no idea what level of knowledge you have about the basics
behind how motors work. Suggest you try google - "Reversing AC motors"
seems like a good starting place

Nevermind how an AC motor works. Harold got it right. The
polarity of AC (alternating current) reverses 120 times a second,
goes thru 60 complete cycles per second. The motor has no way of
"knowing" which way the plug is inserted -- and it doesn't matter,
since it gets AC either way.

In article , RAM^3 says...

FWIW, my 55-year-old house came with this type of socket and I've "modified"
quite a few "polarized" plugs myself. G

By the time they're 55 years old, recptacles are pretty clapped
out - I would respectfully suggest you simply replace with new
ones every time you have that problem with modern plugs.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 00:57:25 -0600, "RAM^3"
wrote:

"~Roy" wrote in message
.. .
It has to do with rotation of a motor....
Motor is a simple aquarium pump, submerged type, powered by AC current
of 115 VAC........2 wire power cord. Armature is the typical magnetic
type. Seems folks are dreaming that they can reverse rotation by
reversing the plug in the recepticle.......SOme have even gone to the
extremes of filing down the wide blade on the polarized plugs so they
can put plug in either way and think they are reversing
direction......Is it possible to change rotation of a AC motor like
this or not? If not, how about an explanatin why, and if it is doable,
an explanation as to how would also be appreciated........No other
mods to motor, just simply reversing plug orientation to reverse motor
rotation.....Not any need to get into the fact that the pump probbaly
would not work or work properly with a wrong rotation due to volute
design etc........


A vastly more credible reason for eliminating the "lugs" on the plug is
older 2-prong AC outlets: these don't have the oversized "slot" for the
newer "polarized" plugs.

FWIW, my 55-year-old house came with this type of socket and I've "modified"
quite a few "polarized" plugs myself. G



A lot simpler to just replace the (likely worn and sloppy) old
receptacles with new ones. About 69 cents each at home
depot/ace/lowes/ etc.

And no, an AC motor will NOT reverse by turning the plug - the otor
sees no difference since polarity switches 120 times per second.( 60
pos to neg, and 60 neg to pos)

On 24 Nov 2005 09:20:51 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:
In article , RAM^3 says...

FWIW, my 55-year-old house came with this type of socket and I've "modified"
quite a few "polarized" plugs myself. G

By the time they're 55 years old, recptacles are pretty clapped
out - I would respectfully suggest you simply replace with new
ones every time you have that problem with modern plugs.

But if the house has ungrounded NM cable in the walls, you NEVER
replace the 2-prong ones with new 3-prong grounding receptacles with
the ground pin not hooked up to anything. It might make the house
"look more modern" but that is a really good way to kill someone with
a false ground.

If you are installing a computer or other complex electronics and
really need a ground source somewhere, you have to replace the cables
to that point and get one there.

They still make and sell new nice and shiny NEMA 1-15R 2-prong
ungrounded receptacles (with the proper polarized Neutral slot) for
replacement use. Leviton #223 in your choice of brown white or ivory.
Larger Home Depot stores stock the white and ivory. Don't see them in
a Decora face device, though.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
On 24 Nov 2005 09:20:51 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:
In article , RAM^3 says...

FWIW, my 55-year-old house came with this type of socket and I've
"modified"
quite a few "polarized" plugs myself. G

By the time they're 55 years old, recptacles are pretty clapped
out - I would respectfully suggest you simply replace with new
ones every time you have that problem with modern plugs.

But if the house has ungrounded NM cable in the walls, you NEVER
replace the 2-prong ones with new 3-prong grounding receptacles with
the ground pin not hooked up to anything. It might make the house
"look more modern" but that is a really good way to kill someone with
a false ground.

Good point, Bruce. Thanks for the tip, even though I'm not likely to
encounter the problem.

Harold