http://cgi.ebay.com/Lars-Gorton-Pant...QQcmdZViewItem


I believe this to be a Gorton 3-Z pantograph..which makes a very nice
small milling machine all by itself, let alone an engraver.

Mine gets a good work out as a small parts miller with endmills up to
about 3/8"

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Gunner Asch wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Lars-Gorton-Pant...QQcmdZViewItem


I believe this to be a Gorton 3-Z pantograph..which makes a very nice
small milling machine all by itself, let alone an engraver.

Mine gets a good work out as a small parts miller with endmills up to
about 3/8"

Gunner

Now THAT'S a bit closer. And it will fit on the trailer. Hmm....

--
Gary Brady
Austin, TX
www.powdercoatoven.4t.com

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 15:04:52 GMT, Gary Brady
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Lars-Gorton-Pant...QQcmdZViewItem


I believe this to be a Gorton 3-Z pantograph..which makes a very nice
small milling machine all by itself, let alone an engraver.

Mine gets a good work out as a small parts miller with endmills up to
about 3/8"

Gunner

Now THAT'S a bit closer. And it will fit on the trailer. Hmm....


And if you DONT want to use it as a pantograph..you can sell the type
and get most of your money back. (Currently at $107)

They show up on Ebay pretty regular btw...however..where you
are..shrug..thats another story.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Gunner will you be quiet. I'm sitting 30 miles from it and watching. Sounds
like you know the owner???

BIG GRIN

--

Clif Holland KA5IPF
www.avvid.com


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 15:04:52 GMT, Gary Brady
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Lars-Gorton-Pant...QQcmdZViewItem


I believe this to be a Gorton 3-Z pantograph..which makes a very nice
small milling machine all by itself, let alone an engraver.

Mine gets a good work out as a small parts miller with endmills up to
about 3/8"

Gunner

Now THAT'S a bit closer. And it will fit on the trailer. Hmm....


And if you DONT want to use it as a pantograph..you can sell the type
and get most of your money back. (Currently at $107)

They show up on Ebay pretty regular btw...however..where you
are..shrug..thats another story.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 03:32:08 GMT, "Clif Holland"
wrote:

Gunner will you be quiet. I'm sitting 30 miles from it and watching. Sounds
like you know the owner???

BIG GRIN

Lol..nope..the guy is a stranger, and the pictures are poor enough
that it may NOT be a 3z..but Im pretty sure it is.

http://inv.wencomachinery.com/q/webi...121141,,1NPBIB
http://www.carneymachinery.com/item_...entory_id=4006

Btw...I have the Gorton pantograph book, and I may be scanning it
before long into a PDF file. Covers all the various models and setups.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:22:43 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth:

Btw...I have the Gorton pantograph book, and I may be scanning it
before long into a PDF file. Covers all the various models and setups.

OOOH! Please do. I urge all owners of old machines and manuals to scan
them to make them available to future users of the machines which
outlast us all.


Oh, and while I have your attention, emails to you don't seem to be
ACKed, so here's one all (but Terry Collins) will enjoy:

--snip--
Retirement Check

The Navy found they had too many officers and decided to offer an
early retirement bonus. They promised any officer who volunteered for
retirement a bonus of $1,000 for every inch measured in a straight
line between any two points in his body. The officer got to choose
what those two points would be.

The first officer who accepted, asked that he be measured from the top
of his head to the tip of his toes. He was measured at six feet and
walked out with a bonus of $72,000.

The second officer who accepted was a little smarter and asked to be
measured from the tip of his outstretched hands to his toes. He
walked out with $96,000.

The third one was a non officer, grizzly old Chief who, when asked
where he would like to be measured, replied, "From the tip of my
weenie to my testicles."

It was suggested by the pension man that he might want to reconsider,
explaining about the nice big checks the previous two officers had
received.

But the old Chief insisted and they decided to go along with him,
providing the measurement was taken by a medical officer. The medical
officer arrived and instructed the Chief to "drop 'em," which he did.
The medical officer placed the tape measure on the tip of the Chief's
weenie and began to work back.

My God!" he suddenly exclaimed. "Where are your testicles?"

The old Chief calmly replied, "Vietnam."
--snip--

--
Sex is Evil, Evil is Sin, Sin is Forgiven.
Gee, ain't religion GREAT?
---------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Sin-free Website Design

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:52:46 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

emails to you don't seem to be
ACKed,

Odd..Ive replied to everyone you sent..assuming I got all of what you
sent.

You are on my "semi-civilized" list VBG

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Gunner
What kind of tooling would fit this thing?

- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

Gunner Asch wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Lars-Gorton-Pant...QQcmdZViewItem


I believe this to be a Gorton 3-Z pantograph..which makes a very nice
small milling machine all by itself, let alone an engraver.

Mine gets a good work out as a small parts miller with endmills up to
about 3/8"

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:25:41 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth:

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:52:46 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

emails to you don't seem to be
ACKed,

Odd..Ive replied to everyone you sent..assuming I got all of what you
sent.

You are on my "semi-civilized" list VBG

Damn, I'm slipping.


--== May The Angst Be With You! ==--
-Yoda, on a bad day
--
http://diversify.com Ending Your Web Page Angst.

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:58:31 -0600, Rex B
wrote:

Gunner
What kind of tooling would fit this thing?

- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

Just about anything with a 3/8 shank

Gunner


Gunner Asch wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Lars-Gorton-Pant...QQcmdZViewItem


I believe this to be a Gorton 3-Z pantograph..which makes a very nice
small milling machine all by itself, let alone an engraver.

Mine gets a good work out as a small parts miller with endmills up to
about 3/8"

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

Am I bidding against someone here on this?

- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

Gunner Asch wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Lars-Gorton-Pant...QQcmdZViewItem


I believe this to be a Gorton 3-Z pantograph..which makes a very nice
small milling machine all by itself, let alone an engraver.

Mine gets a good work out as a small parts miller with endmills up to
about 3/8"

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

If you look at the sellers other items he has an additional machine
also for sale.

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:10:53 -0600, Rex B
wrote:

Am I bidding against someone here on this?

- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

I think one of the posters here is desperate for a small machine
(mill) for his home shop. Ive been in contact with him on this, and if
he decides to speak, he can identify himself.

Gunner



Gunner Asch wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Lars-Gorton-Pant...QQcmdZViewItem


I believe this to be a Gorton 3-Z pantograph..which makes a very nice
small milling machine all by itself, let alone an engraver.

Mine gets a good work out as a small parts miller with endmills up to
about 3/8"

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

Gunner wrote:

I think one of the posters here is desperate for a small machine
(mill) for his home shop. Ive been in contact with him on this, and if
he decides to speak, he can identify himself.

Gunner

I made some noise about it earlier, but didn't bid on it. I would,
however, have thrown at least $350-$500 or so at it. I didn't know much
about that type of machine and had other things on the burner (travel
plans) this week, so I decided it against bidding.


--
Gary Brady
Austin, TX
www.powdercoatoven.4t.com

It failed to hit reserve at $191 or so.
I had a snipe in at more than that, but cancelled it at the last minute.

- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

Gary Brady wrote:
Gunner wrote:

I think one of the posters here is desperate for a small machine
(mill) for his home shop. Ive been in contact with him on this, and if
he decides to speak, he can identify himself.

Gunner


I made some noise about it earlier, but didn't bid on it. I would,
however, have thrown at least $350-$500 or so at it. I didn't know much
about that type of machine and had other things on the burner (travel
plans) this week, so I decided it against bidding.

Rex B wrote:
It failed to hit reserve at $191 or so.
I had a snipe in at more than that, but cancelled it at the last minute.

- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX


So what's this machine really worth, as a milling machine? Is it
1ph/3ph? Weight and size looks OK for a home shop. Apparently no one
in Fort Worth wanted it very badly-not at $191.50. No way of telling
what the reserve was.


--
Gary Brady
Austin, TX
www.powdercoatoven.4t.com

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 03:46:46 GMT, Gary Brady
wrote:

Rex B wrote:
It failed to hit reserve at $191 or so.
I had a snipe in at more than that, but cancelled it at the last minute.

- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX


So what's this machine really worth, as a milling machine? Is it
1ph/3ph? Weight and size looks OK for a home shop. Apparently no one
in Fort Worth wanted it very badly-not at $191.50. No way of telling
what the reserve was.

I figure, with the spare tooling and the box of type..$250 would have
been fair, if it was in good shape. One could sell the font set for at
least $50-100 and recoup a fair chunk of change.

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:53:38 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:10:53 -0600, Rex B
wrote:

Am I bidding against someone here on this?

- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

I think one of the posters here is desperate for a small machine
(mill) for his home shop. Ive been in contact with him on this, and if
he decides to speak, he can identify himself.

Gunner


I decided to wait and get what I really needed. I have his phone
number if anyone is interested.

Thanks for the advice, Gunner.

He said it was 120V 1 phase
- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

Gary Brady wrote:
Rex B wrote:

It failed to hit reserve at $191 or so.
I had a snipe in at more than that, but cancelled it at the last minute.

- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX



So what's this machine really worth, as a milling machine? Is it
1ph/3ph? Weight and size looks OK for a home shop. Apparently no one
in Fort Worth wanted it very badly-not at $191.50. No way of telling
what the reserve was.

Actually, that was what I had my Snipe set at.
But my interest was pretty mild, and I figured someone here had more
desire. Apparently not.

But I would like to find out more about these machines before it gets
relisted. How is the type used, and what sort of items is it made to
produce?

Any online documentation?
- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 03:46:46 GMT, Gary Brady
wrote:


Rex B wrote:

It failed to hit reserve at $191 or so.
I had a snipe in at more than that, but cancelled it at the last minute.

- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX


So what's this machine really worth, as a milling machine? Is it
1ph/3ph? Weight and size looks OK for a home shop. Apparently no one
in Fort Worth wanted it very badly-not at $191.50. No way of telling
what the reserve was.


I figure, with the spare tooling and the box of type..$250 would have
been fair, if it was in good shape. One could sell the font set for at
least $50-100 and recoup a fair chunk of change.

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:57:18 -0600, Rex B
wrote:

Actually, that was what I had my Snipe set at.
But my interest was pretty mild, and I figured someone here had more
desire. Apparently not.

But I would like to find out more about these machines before it gets
relisted. How is the type used, and what sort of items is it made to
produce?

Any online documentation?
- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

The basic Pantograph, is a "tracing engraver", where a stylus traces
letters (the brass fonts) and the cutting head reproduces those
letters, either bigger or smaller, on things like signs, panels etc
etc. The fonts may be in a hundred different styles, both relieved and
bia relieved. Basic pantograph stuff G

The P2s and others add a third dimension..ie the cutting head can
travel over the entire surface, tracing the entire object.. An
example would be if you wanted to make a copy of a knife handle, but
1/3 bigger or smaller (example only). You would clamp down the
original. set your arm ratios, and put a piece of material under the
cutting head, select the proper cutter, and simply start tracing the
original, in all dimensions..and the cutter will do its job. and you
will end up with the same handle..but larger or smaller. Think of the
Stuff you can copy this way G

You can even copy that dashboard Jesus but larger or smaller G

Now because the work needs to be positioned exactly..there are x and y
screws, same as a milling table. Plus the knee.

Some of the machines, such as the 3-Z, have the facility of being able
to lock the cutting head into place, just like a verticle mill. Gorton
calls this the "router" postion in some of their literature.
This is the setup that will be most used for a home shop machinist. A
small milling machine with spindle speeds up to 12,000 rpm (high speed
for those small cutters)

The usual collet was for a 3/8 shank tool, but they go down to 1/8",
and of course we all know that tiny cutters can have 3/8 shanks, so
cutters are easy to find. The cutting head is operated by a "rope
belt", which is a fabric belt, about 1/2" or so in diamter, running
across various pulleys from a motor at the base of the machine.

It all looks a bit odd at first glance..but they work quite well.

Some of the machines, such as the 3-Z, have a rack on the cutting
spindle, that allows you to raise the spindle about .5 or so above the
work, making it easy to cut, raise, move to the next position, plunge
and go back to cutting.

This is a Great tool for tracing electrical device face plates, with D
holes, etc etc, and you can change the size ratios without making a
new pattern, and you can engrave your custom logo into the face as
well G

It works very well for small milling projects. My 3-Z was getting a
pretty good workout by a couple older gents who were using it to not
just trace wing spars and other model airplane parts, but mill motor
mounts etc etc out of steel, aluminum and plastic. Think of it as a
Shirline mill on steroids with a much bigger work area.

It will turn a 3/8 milling cutter just fine, though its not for big
hogging, half diameter cuts are ok with a 4 flute in steel, if you are
careful.

Not all Gorton pantographs are as versitle..so be careful of what you
buy..some are simply engrave only for the most part and while they can
be used as a mill..are a bit more unwieldy.

Ill try to scan the book over the holidays and post it on the web.

Gunner


Gunner


Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 03:46:46 GMT, Gary Brady
wrote:


Rex B wrote:

It failed to hit reserve at $191 or so.
I had a snipe in at more than that, but cancelled it at the last minute.

- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX


So what's this machine really worth, as a milling machine? Is it
1ph/3ph? Weight and size looks OK for a home shop. Apparently no one
in Fort Worth wanted it very badly-not at $191.50. No way of telling
what the reserve was.


I figure, with the spare tooling and the box of type..$250 would have
been fair, if it was in good shape. One could sell the font set for at
least $50-100 and recoup a fair chunk of change.

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:51:52 -0600, Rex B
wrote:

He said it was 120V 1 phase
- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

Nealy all are 120, single phase. with a Real 1/3 or 1/2 hp motor.

Gunner


Gary Brady wrote:
Rex B wrote:

It failed to hit reserve at $191 or so.
I had a snipe in at more than that, but cancelled it at the last minute.

- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX



So what's this machine really worth, as a milling machine? Is it
1ph/3ph? Weight and size looks OK for a home shop. Apparently no one
in Fort Worth wanted it very badly-not at $191.50. No way of telling
what the reserve was.




"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

Gunner wrote:
The basic Pantograph, is a "tracing engraver", where a stylus traces
letters (the brass fonts) and the cutting head reproduces those
letters, either bigger or smaller, on things like signs, panels etc
etc. The fonts may be in a hundred different styles, both relieved and
bia relieved. Basic pantograph stuff G

The P2s and others add a third dimension..ie the cutting head can
travel over the entire surface, tracing the entire object.. An
example would be if you wanted to make a copy of a knife handle, but
1/3 bigger or smaller (example only). You would clamp down the
original. set your arm ratios, and put a piece of material under the
cutting head, select the proper cutter, and simply start tracing the
original, in all dimensions..and the cutter will do its job. and you
will end up with the same handle..but larger or smaller. Think of the
Stuff you can copy this way G

You can even copy that dashboard Jesus but larger or smaller G

Now because the work needs to be positioned exactly..there are x and y
screws, same as a milling table. Plus the knee.

Some of the machines, such as the 3-Z, have the facility of being able
to lock the cutting head into place, just like a verticle mill. Gorton
calls this the "router" postion in some of their literature.
This is the setup that will be most used for a home shop machinist. A
small milling machine with spindle speeds up to 12,000 rpm (high speed
for those small cutters)

The usual collet was for a 3/8 shank tool, but they go down to 1/8",
and of course we all know that tiny cutters can have 3/8 shanks, so
cutters are easy to find. The cutting head is operated by a "rope
belt", which is a fabric belt, about 1/2" or so in diamter, running
across various pulleys from a motor at the base of the machine.

It all looks a bit odd at first glance..but they work quite well.

Some of the machines, such as the 3-Z, have a rack on the cutting
spindle, that allows you to raise the spindle about .5 or so above the
work, making it easy to cut, raise, move to the next position, plunge
and go back to cutting.

This is a Great tool for tracing electrical device face plates, with D
holes, etc etc, and you can change the size ratios without making a
new pattern, and you can engrave your custom logo into the face as
well G

It works very well for small milling projects. My 3-Z was getting a
pretty good workout by a couple older gents who were using it to not
just trace wing spars and other model airplane parts, but mill motor
mounts etc etc out of steel, aluminum and plastic. Think of it as a
Shirline mill on steroids with a much bigger work area.

It will turn a 3/8 milling cutter just fine, though its not for big
hogging, half diameter cuts are ok with a 4 flute in steel, if you are
careful.

Not all Gorton pantographs are as versitle..so be careful of what you
buy..some are simply engrave only for the most part and while they can
be used as a mill..are a bit more unwieldy.

Very good info, and most helpful.

So the 3-Z is the most desirable?
Followed by the P2?
Could you tell what model that was in the ebay listing?

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 14:11:02 -0600, Rex B
wrote:


Gunner wrote:
The basic Pantograph, is a "tracing engraver", where a stylus traces
letters (the brass fonts) and the cutting head reproduces those
letters, either bigger or smaller, on things like signs, panels etc
etc. The fonts may be in a hundred different styles, both relieved and
bia relieved. Basic pantograph stuff G

The P2s and others add a third dimension..ie the cutting head can
travel over the entire surface, tracing the entire object.. An
example would be if you wanted to make a copy of a knife handle, but
1/3 bigger or smaller (example only). You would clamp down the
original. set your arm ratios, and put a piece of material under the
cutting head, select the proper cutter, and simply start tracing the
original, in all dimensions..and the cutter will do its job. and you
will end up with the same handle..but larger or smaller. Think of the
Stuff you can copy this way G

You can even copy that dashboard Jesus but larger or smaller G

Now because the work needs to be positioned exactly..there are x and y
screws, same as a milling table. Plus the knee.

Some of the machines, such as the 3-Z, have the facility of being able
to lock the cutting head into place, just like a verticle mill. Gorton
calls this the "router" postion in some of their literature.
This is the setup that will be most used for a home shop machinist. A
small milling machine with spindle speeds up to 12,000 rpm (high speed
for those small cutters)

The usual collet was for a 3/8 shank tool, but they go down to 1/8",
and of course we all know that tiny cutters can have 3/8 shanks, so
cutters are easy to find. The cutting head is operated by a "rope
belt", which is a fabric belt, about 1/2" or so in diamter, running
across various pulleys from a motor at the base of the machine.

It all looks a bit odd at first glance..but they work quite well.

Some of the machines, such as the 3-Z, have a rack on the cutting
spindle, that allows you to raise the spindle about .5 or so above the
work, making it easy to cut, raise, move to the next position, plunge
and go back to cutting.

This is a Great tool for tracing electrical device face plates, with D
holes, etc etc, and you can change the size ratios without making a
new pattern, and you can engrave your custom logo into the face as
well G

It works very well for small milling projects. My 3-Z was getting a
pretty good workout by a couple older gents who were using it to not
just trace wing spars and other model airplane parts, but mill motor
mounts etc etc out of steel, aluminum and plastic. Think of it as a
Shirline mill on steroids with a much bigger work area.

It will turn a 3/8 milling cutter just fine, though its not for big
hogging, half diameter cuts are ok with a 4 flute in steel, if you are
careful.

Not all Gorton pantographs are as versitle..so be careful of what you
buy..some are simply engrave only for the most part and while they can
be used as a mill..are a bit more unwieldy.

Very good info, and most helpful.

So the 3-Z is the most desirable?

From what little I know about the Gortons..without referenceing the
book (got to find it)..the 3-Z was only one of the possible machines
that would do this. There are a number

Followed by the P2?

Depends on if you want 3D milling.. a P2-3 is not a small machine. Its
about the size of a Bridgeport in footprint..with all sorts of ****
hanging off and over it.

Could you tell what model that was in the ebay listing?

The one I commented on..I believe to be a 3-Z, based on the poor
photos, which is why I posted it, because of its versitility and
application to HSM.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 17:17:45 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 14:11:02 -0600, Rex B
wrote:


Gunner wrote:
The basic Pantograph, is a "tracing engraver", where a stylus traces
letters (the brass fonts) and the cutting head reproduces those
letters, either bigger or smaller, on things like signs, panels etc
etc. The fonts may be in a hundred different styles, both relieved and
bia relieved. Basic pantograph stuff G

The P2s and others add a third dimension..ie the cutting head can
travel over the entire surface, tracing the entire object.. An
example would be if you wanted to make a copy of a knife handle, but
1/3 bigger or smaller (example only). You would clamp down the
original. set your arm ratios, and put a piece of material under the
cutting head, select the proper cutter, and simply start tracing the
original, in all dimensions..and the cutter will do its job. and you
will end up with the same handle..but larger or smaller. Think of the
Stuff you can copy this way G

You can even copy that dashboard Jesus but larger or smaller G

Now because the work needs to be positioned exactly..there are x and y
screws, same as a milling table. Plus the knee.

Some of the machines, such as the 3-Z, have the facility of being able
to lock the cutting head into place, just like a verticle mill. Gorton
calls this the "router" postion in some of their literature.
This is the setup that will be most used for a home shop machinist. A
small milling machine with spindle speeds up to 12,000 rpm (high speed
for those small cutters)

The usual collet was for a 3/8 shank tool, but they go down to 1/8",
and of course we all know that tiny cutters can have 3/8 shanks, so
cutters are easy to find. The cutting head is operated by a "rope
belt", which is a fabric belt, about 1/2" or so in diamter, running
across various pulleys from a motor at the base of the machine.

It all looks a bit odd at first glance..but they work quite well.

Some of the machines, such as the 3-Z, have a rack on the cutting
spindle, that allows you to raise the spindle about .5 or so above the
work, making it easy to cut, raise, move to the next position, plunge
and go back to cutting.

This is a Great tool for tracing electrical device face plates, with D
holes, etc etc, and you can change the size ratios without making a
new pattern, and you can engrave your custom logo into the face as
well G

It works very well for small milling projects. My 3-Z was getting a
pretty good workout by a couple older gents who were using it to not
just trace wing spars and other model airplane parts, but mill motor
mounts etc etc out of steel, aluminum and plastic. Think of it as a
Shirline mill on steroids with a much bigger work area.

It will turn a 3/8 milling cutter just fine, though its not for big
hogging, half diameter cuts are ok with a 4 flute in steel, if you are
careful.

Not all Gorton pantographs are as versitle..so be careful of what you
buy..some are simply engrave only for the most part and while they can
be used as a mill..are a bit more unwieldy.

Very good info, and most helpful.

So the 3-Z is the most desirable?

From what little I know about the Gortons..without referenceing the
book (got to find it)..the 3-Z was only one of the possible machines
that would do this. There are a number

Followed by the P2?

Depends on if you want 3D milling.. a P2-3 is not a small machine. Its
about the size of a Bridgeport in footprint..with all sorts of ****
hanging off and over it.

Could you tell what model that was in the ebay listing?

The one I commented on..I believe to be a 3-Z, based on the poor
photos, which is why I posted it, because of its versitility and
application to HSM.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner


I scanned the Gorton manual this morning..its a 16meg zip file.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Gunner I have a website you can upload it to. I can't figure out how to let
you do it. Any gurus want to help???



--

Clif Holland KA5IPF
www.avvid.com


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 17:17:45 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 14:11:02 -0600, Rex B
wrote:


Gunner wrote:
The basic Pantograph, is a "tracing engraver", where a stylus traces
letters (the brass fonts) and the cutting head reproduces those
letters, either bigger or smaller, on things like signs, panels etc
etc. The fonts may be in a hundred different styles, both relieved and
bia relieved. Basic pantograph stuff G

The P2s and others add a third dimension..ie the cutting head can
travel over the entire surface, tracing the entire object.. An
example would be if you wanted to make a copy of a knife handle, but
1/3 bigger or smaller (example only). You would clamp down the
original. set your arm ratios, and put a piece of material under the
cutting head, select the proper cutter, and simply start tracing the
original, in all dimensions..and the cutter will do its job. and you
will end up with the same handle..but larger or smaller. Think of the
Stuff you can copy this way G

You can even copy that dashboard Jesus but larger or smaller G

Now because the work needs to be positioned exactly..there are x and y
screws, same as a milling table. Plus the knee.

Some of the machines, such as the 3-Z, have the facility of being able
to lock the cutting head into place, just like a verticle mill. Gorton
calls this the "router" postion in some of their literature.
This is the setup that will be most used for a home shop machinist. A
small milling machine with spindle speeds up to 12,000 rpm (high speed
for those small cutters)

The usual collet was for a 3/8 shank tool, but they go down to 1/8",
and of course we all know that tiny cutters can have 3/8 shanks, so
cutters are easy to find. The cutting head is operated by a "rope
belt", which is a fabric belt, about 1/2" or so in diamter, running
across various pulleys from a motor at the base of the machine.

It all looks a bit odd at first glance..but they work quite well.

Some of the machines, such as the 3-Z, have a rack on the cutting
spindle, that allows you to raise the spindle about .5 or so above the
work, making it easy to cut, raise, move to the next position, plunge
and go back to cutting.

This is a Great tool for tracing electrical device face plates, with D
holes, etc etc, and you can change the size ratios without making a
new pattern, and you can engrave your custom logo into the face as
well G

It works very well for small milling projects. My 3-Z was getting a
pretty good workout by a couple older gents who were using it to not
just trace wing spars and other model airplane parts, but mill motor
mounts etc etc out of steel, aluminum and plastic. Think of it as a
Shirline mill on steroids with a much bigger work area.

It will turn a 3/8 milling cutter just fine, though its not for big
hogging, half diameter cuts are ok with a 4 flute in steel, if you are
careful.

Not all Gorton pantographs are as versitle..so be careful of what you
buy..some are simply engrave only for the most part and while they can
be used as a mill..are a bit more unwieldy.

Very good info, and most helpful.

So the 3-Z is the most desirable?

From what little I know about the Gortons..without referenceing the
book (got to find it)..the 3-Z was only one of the possible machines
that would do this. There are a number

Followed by the P2?

Depends on if you want 3D milling.. a P2-3 is not a small machine. Its
about the size of a Bridgeport in footprint..with all sorts of ****
hanging off and over it.

Could you tell what model that was in the ebay listing?

The one I commented on..I believe to be a 3-Z, based on the poor
photos, which is why I posted it, because of its versitility and
application to HSM.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner


I scanned the Gorton manual this morning..its a 16meg zip file.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner