On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 21:42:43 -0800, Roger rlrsk8r at hot mail wrote:

I have some 3/16 rivets that have the typical large round head on
them. I decided to use the 3/16 rivet since the 4 or 4.5mm round head
rivets that are normally used in this project cost a buck apiece.
Consequently, McMaster has gotten my business on SAE rivets.

The problem I have is that the head on the metric rivet is smaller
than what I got from McMaster. So my solution is to turn the head down
to match the metric rivet.

I'm missing something here - why don't you replace all the rivets
with the smaller SAE ones when you build your (whatever)?

Is this something you bought pre-made that you are modifying?

And who is going to look closely enough at the (whatever) to notice
that some of the rivet heads are smaller than the others, or care,
besides you? ;-P

(Don't sweat the small stuff. And barring any more information
input on why it's critical, it sure sounds like small stuff to me...)

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

How about something like a core drill - the center of the tube
is the size you need. The teeth are on the wall of the tube(drill)
and you drive it or you drive the rivet into the drill...
The gripping end of the tube should be filled with a rod and brazed or soldered.

That is one idea - keeps them co-linear.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Roger wrote:
I have some 3/16 rivets that have the typical large round head on
them. I decided to use the 3/16 rivet since the 4 or 4.5mm round head
rivets that are normally used in this project cost a buck apiece.
Consequently, McMaster has gotten my business on SAE rivets.

The problem I have is that the head on the metric rivet is smaller
than what I got from McMaster. So my solution is to turn the head down
to match the metric rivet.

McMaster rivets are soft, like 1018 or some ChingChing Crap. I don't
have to use a carbide cutter but I don't have anything capable of
grinding the cutter with. I thought I'd make a cutter out of some type
of tool steel and use a 1/4 inch drill/endmill to cut my radius and
then mill off the nose of the cutter. I realize that I will have to
heat treat the cutter but I don't know what kind of steel to make it
out of. I have some HSS cutters but they are so hard that I woudl
have to grind them. I want to start with workable steel and then do
the HT and grind to sharpen.

I will not be making high number production runs of these rivets and
the cutting speed will not be that high. It is definitely a throw-away
cutter.

Do any of you have suggestions for this project ?

I have a heat treat oven (ceramics kiln with digital controller) so I
can do what ever heating I need.

RoGrrr



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I have some 3/16 rivets that have the typical large round head on
them. I decided to use the 3/16 rivet since the 4 or 4.5mm round head
rivets that are normally used in this project cost a buck apiece.
Consequently, McMaster has gotten my business on SAE rivets.

The problem I have is that the head on the metric rivet is smaller
than what I got from McMaster. So my solution is to turn the head down
to match the metric rivet.

McMaster rivets are soft, like 1018 or some ChingChing Crap. I don't
have to use a carbide cutter but I don't have anything capable of
grinding the cutter with. I thought I'd make a cutter out of some type
of tool steel and use a 1/4 inch drill/endmill to cut my radius and
then mill off the nose of the cutter. I realize that I will have to
heat treat the cutter but I don't know what kind of steel to make it
out of. I have some HSS cutters but they are so hard that I woudl
have to grind them. I want to start with workable steel and then do
the HT and grind to sharpen.

I will not be making high number production runs of these rivets and
the cutting speed will not be that high. It is definitely a throw-away
cutter.

Do any of you have suggestions for this project ?

I have a heat treat oven (ceramics kiln with digital controller) so I
can do what ever heating I need.

RoGrrr



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Roger rlrsk8r at hot mail wrote:

I really hate this metric crap. Why don't they adopt a good system and we
wouldn't have all this confusion.

YMMD :-))

Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
DIY-DRO - YADRO - Eigenbau-Digitalanzeige

Roger rlrsk8r at hot mail wrote:

I will not be making high number production runs of these rivets and
the cutting speed will not be that high. It is definitely a throw-away
cutter.

Do any of you have suggestions for this project ?

I would make something that looks like a rose bit. Difference is, that
the bit you make has no hole but a convex dimple in it (that forms the
head. Use drill rod for you tool.
You can form that convex shape with a radius mill. Cut 3 or 4 slots that
will form the cutting edges. Harden and temper.

Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
DIY-DRO - YADRO - Eigenbau-Digitalanzeige

OK, Bruce. Here's the skinny on what I'm doing.

I am building one of those E-E-EVIL AK47s and as mentioned, metric
rivets are a buck apiece for them. The rivets are either 4.0mm
(0.157) or 4.5mm (0.177), depending on which part of the gun.

I decided I would change all the rivets to 3/16 (0.187) but the heads
are a bit oversize (by maybe 0.100) and they look out of place.
Besides, people who know AKs will look at the gun and barf.

Consequently, I plan to put the rivet heads on a diet to hide what
I've done. So what I need to make is a cutting bit to reduce the
diamater of the head. I can make it but I need to know what kind of
steel I should use for machineability and then be able to heat treat
it so I can cut 1006 mild steel.

Yeah, it IS small stuff but it's something I just "HAVE TO DO", if you
get my drift. We all know how us hobbyists are.

A mea culpa on my part, I just noticed that 5/32 rivets are 4.0mm (I
really hate this metric crap. Why don't they adopt a good system and
we wouldn't have all this confusion) and the head is the right size. I
could have used them in some spots. Oh, well. Next time....

Roger


On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 05:05:16 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 21:42:43 -0800, Roger rlrsk8r at hot mail wrote:

I have some 3/16 rivets that have the typical large round head on
them. I decided to use the 3/16 rivet since the 4 or 4.5mm round head
rivets that are normally used in this project cost a buck apiece.
Consequently, McMaster has gotten my business on SAE rivets.

The problem I have is that the head on the metric rivet is smaller
than what I got from McMaster. So my solution is to turn the head down
to match the metric rivet.

I'm missing something here - why don't you replace all the rivets
with the smaller SAE ones when you build your (whatever)?

Is this something you bought pre-made that you are modifying?

And who is going to look closely enough at the (whatever) to notice
that some of the rivet heads are smaller than the others, or care,
besides you? ;-P

(Don't sweat the small stuff. And barring any more information
input on why it's critical, it sure sounds like small stuff to me...)

-- Bruce --



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Martin
That sounds like a good idea but I can't find the drill you're
describing. The only core drills I can find are the masonry type. I do
have some tubing chamfer bits but they aren't nearly small enough.
Roger


On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 23:30:45 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

How about something like a core drill - the center of the tube
is the size you need. The teeth are on the wall of the tube(drill)
and you drive it or you drive the rivet into the drill...
The gripping end of the tube should be filled with a rod and brazed or soldered.

That is one idea - keeps them co-linear.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Roger wrote:
I have some 3/16 rivets that have the typical large round head on
them. I decided to use the 3/16 rivet since the 4 or 4.5mm round head
rivets that are normally used in this project cost a buck apiece.
Consequently, McMaster has gotten my business on SAE rivets.

The problem I have is that the head on the metric rivet is smaller
than what I got from McMaster. So my solution is to turn the head down
to match the metric rivet.

McMaster rivets are soft, like 1018 or some ChingChing Crap. I don't
have to use a carbide cutter but I don't have anything capable of
grinding the cutter with. I thought I'd make a cutter out of some type
of tool steel and use a 1/4 inch drill/endmill to cut my radius and
then mill off the nose of the cutter. I realize that I will have to
heat treat the cutter but I don't know what kind of steel to make it
out of. I have some HSS cutters but they are so hard that I woudl
have to grind them. I want to start with workable steel and then do
the HT and grind to sharpen.

I will not be making high number production runs of these rivets and
the cutting speed will not be that high. It is definitely a throw-away
cutter.

Do any of you have suggestions for this project ?

I have a heat treat oven (ceramics kiln with digital controller) so I
can do what ever heating I need.

RoGrrr



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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 09:01:54 -0800, Roger rlrsk8r at hot mail wrote:

I am building one of those E-E-EVIL AK47s and as mentioned, metric
rivets are a buck apiece for them. The rivets are either 4.0mm
(0.157) or 4.5mm (0.177), depending on which part of the gun.

Guns are neutral. Guns are just a lump of metal, they don't go off
by themselves. People are either good or evil, they are the ones
that decide where to point the gun, and when to fire.

If you want to go down that road, cars are far more deadly than guns
but you don't see people moving to ban all cars.

Hell, Dihydrogen Monoxide is more dangerous than guns... ;-P

I decided I would change all the rivets to 3/16 (0.187) but the heads
are a bit oversize (by maybe 0.100) and they look out of place.
Besides, people who know AKs will look at the gun and barf.

Consequently, I plan to put the rivet heads on a diet to hide what
I've done. So what I need to make is a cutting bit to reduce the
diamater of the head. I can make it but I need to know what kind of
steel I should use for machineability and then be able to heat treat
it so I can cut 1006 mild steel.

Yeah, it IS small stuff but it's something I just "HAVE TO DO", if you
get my drift. We all know how us hobbyists are.

Okay, it's an appearance critical item. Carry on...

Though you might try to source the right rivets for the right price,
before you go through all the effort of cutting oversize heads down.

Even if you have to buy bulk and import them yourself, you can pack
the extras in bags of 50 or 100 and resell them on E-Bay. You can buy
them for a few pennies in bulk and resell them for 50c, and still be
well under the guys charging $1 each.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Try making one. Should be easy - cut slow and be like a planer blade or scraper
or saw teeth.

Likewise - a slightly slotted end - roughed up maybe - and loaded with grit -
and turned in a bath of oil and grit - grind it down in the same concept.
I have done glass that way and it is slow but works.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Roger wrote:
Martin
That sounds like a good idea but I can't find the drill you're
describing. The only core drills I can find are the masonry type. I do
have some tubing chamfer bits but they aren't nearly small enough.
Roger


On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 23:30:45 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:


How about something like a core drill - the center of the tube
is the size you need. The teeth are on the wall of the tube(drill)
and you drive it or you drive the rivet into the drill...
The gripping end of the tube should be filled with a rod and brazed or soldered.

That is one idea - keeps them co-linear.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Roger wrote:

I have some 3/16 rivets that have the typical large round head on
them. I decided to use the 3/16 rivet since the 4 or 4.5mm round head
rivets that are normally used in this project cost a buck apiece.
Consequently, McMaster has gotten my business on SAE rivets.

The problem I have is that the head on the metric rivet is smaller
than what I got from McMaster. So my solution is to turn the head down
to match the metric rivet.

McMaster rivets are soft, like 1018 or some ChingChing Crap. I don't
have to use a carbide cutter but I don't have anything capable of
grinding the cutter with. I thought I'd make a cutter out of some type
of tool steel and use a 1/4 inch drill/endmill to cut my radius and
then mill off the nose of the cutter. I realize that I will have to
heat treat the cutter but I don't know what kind of steel to make it
out of. I have some HSS cutters but they are so hard that I woudl
have to grind them. I want to start with workable steel and then do
the HT and grind to sharpen.

I will not be making high number production runs of these rivets and
the cutting speed will not be that high. It is definitely a throw-away
cutter.

Do any of you have suggestions for this project ?

I have a heat treat oven (ceramics kiln with digital controller) so I
can do what ever heating I need.

RoGrrr



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Bruce
My comments are interspersed throughout

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:05:43 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 09:01:54 -0800, Roger rlrsk8r at hot mail wrote:

..... E-E-EVIL AK47s .......

Guns are neutral.


Guns are another form of currency. Look around the world and you will
find people who are stupidly dumb and didn't have a pot....

But they start dealing in guns and they become wildly wealthy

Guns are just a lump of metal, they don't go off
by themselves. People are either good or evil, they are the ones
that decide where to point the gun, and when to fire.

I agree with you on the inantimate objects. Diane Feinsteins and
teddy (hic) kennedys are evil

They ought to be outlawed and executed.

Hell, Dihydrogen Monoxide is more dangerous than guns... ;-P

Then why don't they outlaw that ?

Yeah, it IS small stuff but it's something I just "HAVE TO DO", if you
get my drift. We all know how us hobbyists are.

Okay, it's an appearance critical item. Carry on...

NO, appearance is _THE_ critical item

Though you might try to source the right rivets for the right price,
before you go through all the effort of cutting oversize heads down.
'
I tried that. They are not available here in the good ol' U.S. of A.

At least not for less than a buck apiece.

And at that, they are imported

Even if you have to buy bulk

I have thought of that. It is something that I would do without any
hesitation.

and import them yourself

I had already asked about that but nobody from outside the US
answered. And I'm not going to go to a licensed importer/broker/agent
bcuz they only deal in quantities of TONS.



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