On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:29:58 +0800, Old Nick
wrote:

On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:17:53 -0800, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote something
......and in reply I say!:

I keep hearing that same response, but how much salt would be in question?
One would have rinsed the parts in clear water, then in a solution of sodium
hydroxide. When the items in question are introduced to the lye solution
the amount of HCL remaining on the parts should be down to next to nothing,
and would most likely already have been neutralized by the iron itself.

But if you have removed the HCl to the point where the salt will not
matter, what is the point of "neutralising" it with the lye?

Smart-sounding question, but genuine. I have always used simple
rinsing and then oil (WD40 or whatever) if needed rather than NaCl,
because of the salt argument.


I used Brownell's water displacing oil after rinsing when hot bluing
firearms, which I haven't done in decades. The bluing solution was a
hellish mix of caustic, sodium nitrite, and sodium nitrate, kept at
295 deg F by back-adding water (very carefully). Very nasty. The hot
rinse was to remove the caustic (lye), etc. In theory, the oil
displaced the water to prevent rusting. Bluing is a form of oxide
which is relatively stable. Without a good rinse and oil, it'll still
rust.

Pete Keillor

_Does_ the lye protect the steel in any way?

If you've not put any steel in HCL, perhaps you should do so to understand
the speed at which it reacts, especially if heated.

I have done it. Yes it rusts anyway if left.


Please read the post by Koz, which is in keeping with my personal
experiences as well. I have no argument with the theory of salt being a
by-product, but one might consider the reality of the situation at hand.

Actually burying the steel in lye, as those conveyors apparently are,
is quite different from having dipped them for a short while and then
left them out to air.

In
this instance, the part(s) would be protected by the residual lye. It would
be highly unlikely that any salt would have been formed.


************************************************* *****************************************
Until I do the other one,this one means nothing
Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

!!
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I have difficulty with it too, but it happens. You used to be able to
buy pure Calgon at the super market, but all the boxes I have looked
at for some years say Sodium Carbonate and Calgon.

As you say Sodium Carbonate is washing soda, and as such it is milder
than TSP but used for many of the same things.

Dan


"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message

I have difficulty believing anything else is in a box
labeled as Trisodium Phosphate! If it does, then it
violates laws related to labeling products. I have two
boxes, one old one fairly new that are labeled TSP and both
do not mention any other compound, nor would I expect them
too. Now if you have a product that is labeled as a
cleaner, or a cleaner with TSP, who knows what would be in
it. Recheck the label on the box. If it is labeled as TSP,
it better be TSP.

Anyway sodium carbonate is known commonly as washing soda.
There is no more relationship between sodium carbonate and
trisodium phosphate than there is between TSP and sodium
chloride.

Hey Ted,

OK. I'll do that. My concern for some time now has been that they
may already have gotten condensate "dampened". I'll give it a shot
though!

Thanks.

Taker care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOn Sun, 02 Nov 2003 17:20:16 GMT, Ted Edwards
wrote:

Brian Lawson wrote:

here. Drizzly rain this morning, and light fog for a few hours early
everyday now. Oh goodie! Wish me luck!

Get a spray can of CRC 3-36 NOT WD-40 and give the machines a light
spray before taking them out of the truck. Good luck.

Ted

Tom Quackenbush wrote:

On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 22:44:48 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
wrote:
SNIP

I have difficulty believing anything else is in a box
labeled as Trisodium Phosphate! If it does, then it
violates laws related to labeling products. I have two
boxes, one old one fairly new that are labeled TSP and both
do not mention any other compound, nor would I expect them
too. Now if you have a product that is labeled as a
cleaner, or a cleaner with TSP, who knows what would be in
it. Recheck the label on the box. If it is labeled as TSP,
it better be TSP.

Anyway sodium carbonate is known commonly as washing soda.
There is no more relationship between sodium carbonate and
trisodium phosphate than there is between TSP and sodium
chloride.

I have a tub of Red Devil brand cleaner labeled TSP/90. The "TSP/90"
is printed in a bold font about 3/4" tall. Above that, in a much
smaller and lighter font, it says "phosphate free". The ingredients
are "sodium metasilicate". The instructions for use say it is "a
trisodium phosphate substitute".

Any that spends 30 seconds reading the label would know that this is
not real TSP, but I could see where someone in a hurry could mistake
it for the real thing.

R,
Tom Q.

True. But TSP/90 sounds like 90% TSP, so I would think this
is a near case of labeling fraud.

In that case - way oil will raise water up and out - and stick on also.

Has kept oxygen from steel in my shop. Fog every day around the house
now.
Raining now.

Martin
--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder