"xray" wrote in message
...

I have some random steel rods I picked up locally. I'm not sure of the
material. Two of them have colors painted on one of the ends: red on one
and orange on the other. I'm wondering if these colors tell me what they
are?

Color codes are not standardized, so unless you have the code from the
particular source, the colors won't tell you much.

Harold

"xray" wrote in message
...

I have some random steel rods I picked up locally. I'm not sure of the
material. Two of them have colors painted on one of the ends: red on one
and orange on the other. I'm wondering if these colors tell me what they
are?

I found this link...
http://www.southerntoolsteel.com/color_codes.html
which lists color codes, but I'm wondering how trustworthy it is. The
entry for 12L14 says "black and white". I assume that means it could be
either, rather than it should have both. That entry bothers me because I
bought some 12L14 end scraps from eBay and things don't seem to match
the table I found. Some are white, which does match, but a couple are
copper color and one is red.

Is the color code a useful way to identify scrap steel? Is there a
better reference on end colors somewhere? Can anyone tell me what my two
steel rods with red and orange ends probably are?

Thanks for any enlightenment you can share.

-Rex

I received over a ton of steel rounds of all different sizes. I deduced
that some was tool steel as the company made some dies for their operations.
I stamped a code number on each round and sliced off a wafer and stamped the
wafers with the same code. I heated each wafer red hot and dropped it into
quenching oil. Then I could tell with a file what was cold-roll and what
was tool steel. Next I spark tested each tool steel wafer with a known
piece of O-1 and D-2. I feel pretty confident with categorizing each piece.
I also knew there wouldn't be too many odd-balls. I only have 2 that I'm
not sure about exactly what they are but they hardened.

Do you need to know what the alloy actually is? Or will knowing general
properties do? Try turning a whack of each piece with HSS tools, you'll
know by the way it cuts and the finish it leaves. You can even tell by the
smell of the cut. Don't even think about sending samples to a lab for
$4-600 a pop.

According to xray :

I have some random steel rods I picked up locally. I'm not sure of the
material. Two of them have colors painted on one of the ends: red on one
and orange on the other. I'm wondering if these colors tell me what they
are?

If you can tell us which steel vendor they originally came from.

Really -- each vendor has his own set of codes. I could look up
the ones which Jorgensen steel uses, but I don't have a convenient
source for the others.

I found this link...
http://www.southerntoolsteel.com/color_codes.html
which lists color codes, but I'm wondering how trustworthy it is. The
entry for 12L14 says "black and white". I assume that means it could be
either, rather than it should have both.

Nope -- it should have both. (Otherwise, they would have said
"black *or* white", not "and".

This is because there are more steel alloys (and other metals)
than there are reasonably identifiable colors, so they have to use two
(or sometimes even three) colors to mark the metals unequivocably.
Jorgensen has several where there is a primary color plus a stripe of
another color.

And the Jorgensen catalog lists a lot more metals than your web
vendor does.

And this is only for metals from this one vendor.

That entry bothers me because I
bought some 12L14 end scraps from eBay and things don't seem to match
the table I found. Some are white, which does match, but a couple are
copper color and one is red.

Again -- from different original vendors, so you can't expect
the color codes to match.

Is the color code a useful way to identify scrap steel?

Nope -- because with scrap, you are unlikely to know who the
original vendor is.

Now -- you could pick some vendor's color code chart to which
you have access, and paint any incoming steel which you can identify to
match.

Is there a
better reference on end colors somewhere?

The problem is that there are *lots* of them. And they all
disagree. :-)

Can anyone tell me what my two
steel rods with red and orange ends probably are?

*If* it came from Jorgensen:

Red 1040/42/45
Orange 1213.1215

Black with White stripe 1035

Brown & White Leaded Grade A (Ledloy A, La-Led) (their 12L14)
Green Leaded Grade B (LedLoy B, Super La-Led)
Pink & Purple Leaded Grade AX (LedLoy AX)

Thanks for any enlightenment you can share.

Well ... I'm sure that this is not what you wanted to hear --
but it is the real world, so I'm afraid that you are stuck.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:17:02 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"xray" wrote in message
.. .

I have some random steel rods I picked up locally. I'm not sure of the
material. Two of them have colors painted on one of the ends: red on one
and orange on the other. I'm wondering if these colors tell me what they
are?

Color codes are not standardized, so unless you have the code from the
particular source, the colors won't tell you much.

Harold

Indeed. It would appear that most if not all suppliers have their own
color codes.

Ive got machine shops with 3-5 color code charts on the wall side by
side..and non of them match.

This sucks of course..but...thats the way it is. Shrug

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 04:53:26 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

Try turning a whack of each piece with HSS tools, you'll
know by the way it cuts and the finish it leaves. You can even tell by the
smell of the cut.
Oboy,,,
Years ago we had a machinist who was not exactly a rocket scientist.
We did a lot of SS, and generally from this vendor the color codes
were predictable.
The guy was looking in the stock bin for a piece of 316...we noticed
the blue end, and it was one of those afternoons where people were
feeling humorous. We told him, "Just breathe on it and smell it
quickly when it is moist...you can detect the "tang" of nickel!"
"Look!( Noticing an orange code) You can even smell the sulfur in this
303, and in this 17-4 (Grey/white) the aluminum in it makes it smell
just like 6061!!!"
We walked away, and had a good laugh. A couple of days later, the guy
who ran the place, a good mettlaurgist in his own right, walked by,
and saw this guy smelling the stock, one piece after another. He
walked up and asked him what he was doing. From a distance, we could
see the rocket scientist trying to explain, gesticulatiing and
thrusting pieces under the boss's nose.
The boss just stared at him silently, and walked away.
We got to the other end of the shop ASAP, collapsing with laughter.

OH MY GOSH!!!! Now THAT was a riot. Reminds me of a good one...Here
goes:
I recently retired from the army. After 25 years in the military as
a welder/machinist, it's safe to say I've met some pretty colorful
folks...one of them was a guy by the name of Vern back at Fort Knox,
Kentucky.
I was the sergeant in charge of the shop & "corpral Vern" was one of
my not too bright welders who couldn't get through even the smallest of
tasks without getting really confused. He and one of my sergeants
finally had it out about Vern's inability to work on a project without
it turning into a disruption for the whole shop.
I had recently undertaken a project where we were about to begin
taking a bunch of M60 battle tanks into the shop, draining all the
fluids, removing the transmission & engine and cutting 4" holes in them
before putting them back in, welding up all the hatches & plugging the
barrel, painting the tank green with a white star and shipping them off
to VFWs for use as a display tank.
After the 1st tank had arrived, I was away from the shop for awhile
taking care of some business. As I was walking back into the shop, I
notice Vern out front standing on this tank....tapping it iwth a
hammer...nodding his head up & down (as if to say "yes" to
himself...Vern talked to himself a lot) and marking an "X" on the tank
with a piece of soapstone. I look over closer to the shop....and all
the guys are just rolling with laughter!
Now before I go into this any further, you have to understand that
the armor on these old tank turrets is thicker on the sides than it is
on the top...like wise the hull is thicker on the front and sides than
it is on the rear.
This tank has soapstone "X"s all over it and Vern is just happily
tapping away! I climb up on the tank & before I can say anything, Vern
says, "That's right you know what I'm doing don't you sergeant? See
people who wrok for you get smart, and then someday we get your job!" I
can hardly contain myself as I admit, 'This must be something old sarge
forgot, why don't you show me?" Vern says listen..."Tap, tap, tap (on
the side of the turret with the hammer...and then..."Tink, tink, tink
(on the top of the turret) you hear that difference sergeant? That's a
soft spot in the armor!" then he beams "Segeant Troy showed me that!"
Vern was so proud of himself...it was almost hard to explain to him,
he'd been the butt of a joke. I kept the piece by helping him play a
joke back on the good sergeant.
-Wayne-

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 09:01:43 +0000, xray wrote:


I did think about grinding on them to see what the sparks look like. I
think I have references in a book or two about differences in sparks.

When I first read about the spark test years ago I didn't give it
much credence for helping to identify the make-up of steels. Because
of my lack of experience I was unable to spot the subtle differences
in the spark patterns made by different types of steel. You can read
up on the spark test, and that's a help, but you really need to grind
on known types of steel and cast iron a bit to develop an "eye" for
the different spark patterns (or at least I did). At this point I can
touch an unknown type of ferrous metal to a grinder, observe the spark
pattern, and get a pretty good idea of what that steel's properties are.
I might not be able to give its chemical composition, but I can distinguish
between mild steel, high carbon, high speed steels, cast iron and cast steel
pretty easily.

Here's a web link that discusses steel identification, including the spark
test.

http://64.78.42.182/sweethaven/BldgC...Num=1&modNum=4

or

http://tinyurl.com/995c3

On the practical side, even if you knew exaxtly what each type was, you'd
still have your own learning curve with respect to the condition of your
lathe, the particular workholding technique, etc.

Good luck!

"xray" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 04:53:26 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"xray" wrote in message
. ..

I have some random steel rods I picked up locally. I'm not sure of the
material. Two of them have colors painted on one of the ends: red on one
and orange on the other. I'm wondering if these colors tell me what they
are?

[snip]
Thanks for any enlightenment you can share.

-Rex

I received over a ton of steel rounds of all different sizes. I deduced
that some was tool steel as the company made some dies for their
operations.
I stamped a code number on each round and sliced off a wafer and stamped
the
wafers with the same code. I heated each wafer red hot and dropped it
into
quenching oil. Then I could tell with a file what was cold-roll and what
was tool steel. Next I spark tested each tool steel wafer with a known
piece of O-1 and D-2. I feel pretty confident with categorizing each
piece.
I also knew there wouldn't be too many odd-balls. I only have 2 that I'm
not sure about exactly what they are but they hardened.

Do you need to know what the alloy actually is? Or will knowing general
properties do? Try turning a whack of each piece with HSS tools, you'll
know by the way it cuts and the finish it leaves. You can even tell by
the
smell of the cut. Don't even think about sending samples to a lab for
$4-600 a pop.


I was hoping the colors would give me a good idea, but I guess not. I'm
just starting to turn things -- got a lathe recently. The 12L14 is the
only steel I have that I am sure of. I think the orange colored piece is
supposed to be 1018. The red one seems to be harder when I knick it with
a file, I'm guessing something like 4140.

Being new to turning I don't have a good feel for how different steels
should feel while cutting. Part of wanting to know what I have was to
give me a feel for the differences.

I did think about grinding on them to see what the sparks look like. I
think I have references in a book or two about differences in sparks.

Oh well, I'm not going to make anything critical for a while or try to
harden steel, so I'll just have at it with what I have while I learn.
I'll order some pieces of some popular steels later for comparison.

According to xray :
On 11 Sep 2005 05:20:51 GMT, (DoN. Nichols) wrote:

According to xray :

[ ... ]

The
entry for 12L14 says "black and white". I assume that means it could be
either, rather than it should have both.

Nope -- it should have both. (Otherwise, they would have said
"black *or* white", not "and".

All the pieces I have here have one solid color, if they are marked at
all. Just for curiosity, what would an "and" marking look like? Both
colors on the same end, like half of one and half of the other?

Well ... I've seen some which have something like 8" of the end
painted one color and perhaps 4" of the end painted over that a second
color. Fairly ragged edges to the overlap -- nobody bothers to mask
things properly -- there is no real need.

I could imagine one which was painted one color on one side and
one on the other -- but I haven't seen that.

Typically, when I get some metal which I know to be a given
type, I use a paint pen of some color which stands out nicely on that
metal to write the type on each end and a few places along the length.
Normally, the length of my stock is at maximum about six feet. Some,
such as three lengths of hex stock which just fits through my lathe
spindle I *know* to be 12L14, so until I get some other alloy in the
same size and in hex, I'll leave those unmarked.

I know some codes mention a stripe, but I'm asking about a plain
two-color "and".

I understand. But most of the metal I've seen has been the more
common ones, which are typically a single color.


[snip]


Well ... I'm sure that this is not what you wanted to hear --
but it is the real world, so I'm afraid that you are stuck.

[ ... ]

Thanks for taking the time to give me a deatailed answer with some
possibilities.

I was able to do that because I keep a copy of the Joregensen
metals catalog up near my computer. If you look on the used book web
sites, you can often find one at a quite reasonable price. (Of course,
the vendor will give you such a book if he feels that you will be
ordering enough to make it worth his while. I'm a hobbist, and as such,
I only get medium large amounts of steel (large for me, at last, such as
those three lengths of 12L14 hex) when I get in on a special buy. I've
been buying 6' lengths of 360L brass rod (3/4" mostly) for an ongoing
project. I buy them from MSC, though I could get the metal for a lot
less by buying several full-length rods from a vendor -- enough rods to
make the delivery worth while. But I don't use that much metal, so I'll
pay the extra for the convenience that MSC offers for the common ones,
and I'll use one of the web-based vendors who offers at even higher
prices, but does not charge a "cut" fee, for when I need an unusual size
occasionally -- such as a project which turned 4' of 6061 aluminum sched
40 pipe (3-1/2" ID) into four antenna waveguides.

I've used some of the online "drops" sites, where you find a
piece which is already near the size you need -- but the shipping on
those can be a killer.

As I said in a reply to a different message, I'll just
play with what I have and compare it to some known steels later.

That is the best thing to do. Get to know how the various
metals behave with *your* tools.

I've got some samples which I have not yet used -- saving them
for special projects which need the features -- but I may get a nasty
surprise when I start to machine those.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Oh, it's not THAT easy, you have to smell it while it's cutting...everybody
knows that!

"Grunty Grogan" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 04:53:26 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

Try turning a whack of each piece with HSS tools, you'll
know by the way it cuts and the finish it leaves. You can even tell by
the
smell of the cut.
Oboy,,,
Years ago we had a machinist who was not exactly a rocket scientist.
We did a lot of SS, and generally from this vendor the color codes
were predictable.
The guy was looking in the stock bin for a piece of 316...we noticed
the blue end, and it was one of those afternoons where people were
feeling humorous. We told him, "Just breathe on it and smell it
quickly when it is moist...you can detect the "tang" of nickel!"
"Look!( Noticing an orange code) You can even smell the sulfur in this
303, and in this 17-4 (Grey/white) the aluminum in it makes it smell
just like 6061!!!"
We walked away, and had a good laugh. A couple of days later, the guy
who ran the place, a good mettlaurgist in his own right, walked by,
and saw this guy smelling the stock, one piece after another. He
walked up and asked him what he was doing. From a distance, we could
see the rocket scientist trying to explain, gesticulatiing and
thrusting pieces under the boss's nose.
The boss just stared at him silently, and walked away.
We got to the other end of the shop ASAP, collapsing with laughter.