Gang,
Looking for some suggestions here, from the vast knowledge and
experience grouped together in RCM.
I have posted a couple of files to the dropbox (if you care to look)
called windshield.txt and windshield.jpg.
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/windshield.txt
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/windshield.jpg
The project involves a custom shaped windshield, and the mounting
thereof, to a metal autobody. The specially shaped 1/4" plate glass
windshields (one on driver's side, one on passenger's side) need a
molding attached to each "end" of the glass to permit mounting.
I obtained some 3/8" square brass, milled a 1/4" groove (1/4" deep)
along the entire length of the 12" pieces. As I need to "bend" the
"u" channel around the corners of the glass in the shapes shown in the
drawing (hand drawing, not to scale BTW) I tried saw kerfing to create
the bend. That part worked great - however, filling in the kerfs is
another matter. Using the O/A torch with a small tip, I tried filling
in the openings with brass rod = disaster. I'm gonna need (probably)
something brass colored that will melt at a much lower heat or
something. The tips of the u channel where the kerfs were cut melted
away under the flame of the torch and the inside of the 1/4" groove
got ruined also. Now kinda thinking some solder and something to
color the solder to the brass color. .... Any ideas, suggestions
would be appreciated. The drawing in the dropbox is just a rough hand
drawn picture to give you the general idea. If you need more
specifics, I can be e-mailed. Thanks a bunch for any help.
Ken.

Ken wrote:

If you need more specifics,

What is the small radius like?
Annealed brass can be bent quite good, especialy if you keep it hot
while bending (it work hardens quite fast).
I would make a jig out of 1/4 thick sheet steel (cut to shape, of
course) and bend the frame around the jig.


Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 22:22:49 GMT, Ken Sterling (Ken Sterling) wrote:

Gang,
Looking for some suggestions here, from the vast knowledge and
experience grouped together in RCM.
I have posted a couple of files to the dropbox (if you care to look)
called windshield.txt and windshield.jpg.
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/windshield.txt
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/windshield.jpg
The project involves a custom shaped windshield, and the mounting
thereof, to a metal autobody. The specially shaped 1/4" plate glass
windshields (one on driver's side, one on passenger's side) need a
molding attached to each "end" of the glass to permit mounting.
I obtained some 3/8" square brass, milled a 1/4" groove (1/4" deep)
along the entire length of the 12" pieces. As I need to "bend" the
"u" channel around the corners of the glass in the shapes shown in the
drawing (hand drawing, not to scale BTW) I tried saw kerfing to create
the bend. That part worked great - however, filling in the kerfs is
another matter. Using the O/A torch with a small tip, I tried filling
in the openings with brass rod = disaster. I'm gonna need (probably)
something brass colored that will melt at a much lower heat or
something. The tips of the u channel where the kerfs were cut melted
away under the flame of the torch and the inside of the 1/4" groove
got ruined also. Now kinda thinking some solder and something to
color the solder to the brass color. .... Any ideas, suggestions
would be appreciated. The drawing in the dropbox is just a rough hand
drawn picture to give you the general idea. If you need more
specifics, I can be e-mailed. Thanks a bunch for any help.

You might try using Sil-Phos (or any of the other names it goes by).
It's what refrigeration guys use to braze copper tubing together. It's
mostly copper with 5-10% silver and a small amount of phosphorus to
make it self fluxing on copper. You'll need to use a high temperature
silver solder flux for the brass despite the self fluxing nature on
copper. I'm not positive it'll work though since it might be a little
high temperature for the brass. I know I had problems the one time I
tried to use it on a brass fitting but I didn't have any flux with me
at the time.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

Might be less work than kerfing and soldering to build rolling dies and
simply roll the radius into the channel.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

Ken Sterling wrote:

Gang,
Looking for some suggestions here, from the vast knowledge and
experience grouped together in RCM.
I have posted a couple of files to the dropbox (if you care to look)
called windshield.txt and windshield.jpg.
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/windshield.txt
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/windshield.jpg
The project involves a custom shaped windshield, and the mounting
thereof, to a metal autobody. The specially shaped 1/4" plate glass
windshields (one on driver's side, one on passenger's side) need a
molding attached to each "end" of the glass to permit mounting.
I obtained some 3/8" square brass, milled a 1/4" groove (1/4" deep)
along the entire length of the 12" pieces. As I need to "bend" the
"u" channel around the corners of the glass in the shapes shown in the
drawing (hand drawing, not to scale BTW) I tried saw kerfing to create
the bend. That part worked great - however, filling in the kerfs is
another matter. Using the O/A torch with a small tip, I tried filling
in the openings with brass rod = disaster. I'm gonna need (probably)
something brass colored that will melt at a much lower heat or
something. The tips of the u channel where the kerfs were cut melted
away under the flame of the torch and the inside of the 1/4" groove
got ruined also. Now kinda thinking some solder and something to
color the solder to the brass color. .... Any ideas, suggestions
would be appreciated. The drawing in the dropbox is just a rough hand
drawn picture to give you the general idea. If you need more
specifics, I can be e-mailed. Thanks a bunch for any help.
Ken.



--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

Ken wrote:

If you need more specifics,

What is the small radius like?

Small radius on the "90 degree" bend is 1"

Annealed brass can be bent quite good, especialy if you keep it hot
while bending (it work hardens quite fast).
I would make a jig out of 1/4 thick sheet steel (cut to shape, of
course) and bend the frame around the jig.

Tried heating and simply bending the channel around a 1/4 plate steel
template, but it just buckled along the sides of the "u" and the
bottom of the "u" kinda buckled inwards into a concave shape along the
bend. I was hoping the heating and bending would work but was very
disappointed with the attempt.
Ken.



Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 22:22:49 GMT, Ken Sterling (Ken Sterling) wrote:

Gang,
Looking for some suggestions here, from the vast knowledge and
experience grouped together in RCM.
I have posted a couple of files to the dropbox (if you care to look)
called windshield.txt and windshield.jpg.
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/windshield.txt
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/windshield.jpg
The project involves a custom shaped windshield, and the mounting
thereof, to a metal autobody. The specially shaped 1/4" plate glass
windshields (one on driver's side, one on passenger's side) need a
molding attached to each "end" of the glass to permit mounting.
I obtained some 3/8" square brass, milled a 1/4" groove (1/4" deep)
along the entire length of the 12" pieces. As I need to "bend" the
"u" channel around the corners of the glass in the shapes shown in the
drawing (hand drawing, not to scale BTW) I tried saw kerfing to create
the bend. That part worked great - however, filling in the kerfs is
another matter. Using the O/A torch with a small tip, I tried filling
in the openings with brass rod = disaster. I'm gonna need (probably)
something brass colored that will melt at a much lower heat or
something. The tips of the u channel where the kerfs were cut melted
away under the flame of the torch and the inside of the 1/4" groove
got ruined also. Now kinda thinking some solder and something to
color the solder to the brass color. .... Any ideas, suggestions
would be appreciated. The drawing in the dropbox is just a rough hand
drawn picture to give you the general idea. If you need more
specifics, I can be e-mailed. Thanks a bunch for any help.

You might try using Sil-Phos (or any of the other names it goes by).
I'm not familiar with this, but will check it out. I'm assuming
(maybe mistakenly) that this is a solder - but you used the term
"braze" in the following sentence....

It's what refrigeration guys use to braze copper tubing together. It's
mostly copper with 5-10% silver and a small amount of phosphorus to
make it self fluxing on copper. You'll need to use a high temperature
silver solder flux for the brass despite the self fluxing nature on
copper. I'm not positive it'll work though since it might be a little
high temperature for the brass. I know I had problems the one time I
Can this be done with a heavy soldering iron - or is it torch only??
tried to use it on a brass fitting but I didn't have any flux with me
at the time.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Thanks for the response, Wayne.
Ken.

Might be less work than kerfing and soldering to build rolling dies and
simply roll the radius into the channel.
JR
Dweller in the cellar
This is something I hadn't thought of... and also something I've never
done before. . . not exactly sure how I would go about it. The bottom
of the "u" channel is about 1/8 thick and is fairly stout. Bending
by hand, with heat applied only produced a wrinkled mess - sigh.
Ken.


Ken Sterling wrote:

Gang,
Looking for some suggestions here, from the vast knowledge and
experience grouped together in RCM.
I have posted a couple of files to the dropbox (if you care to look)
called windshield.txt and windshield.jpg.
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/windshield.txt
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/windshield.jpg
The project involves a custom shaped windshield, and the mounting
thereof, to a metal autobody. The specially shaped 1/4" plate glass
windshields (one on driver's side, one on passenger's side) need a
molding attached to each "end" of the glass to permit mounting.
I obtained some 3/8" square brass, milled a 1/4" groove (1/4" deep)
along the entire length of the 12" pieces. As I need to "bend" the
"u" channel around the corners of the glass in the shapes shown in the
drawing (hand drawing, not to scale BTW) I tried saw kerfing to create
the bend. That part worked great - however, filling in the kerfs is
another matter. Using the O/A torch with a small tip, I tried filling
in the openings with brass rod = disaster. I'm gonna need (probably)
something brass colored that will melt at a much lower heat or
something. The tips of the u channel where the kerfs were cut melted
away under the flame of the torch and the inside of the 1/4" groove
got ruined also. Now kinda thinking some solder and something to
color the solder to the brass color. .... Any ideas, suggestions
would be appreciated. The drawing in the dropbox is just a rough hand
drawn picture to give you the general idea. If you need more
specifics, I can be e-mailed. Thanks a bunch for any help.
Ken.



--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

I think there is a gold/brass color solder used by jewelers. May be "TIF". I
have no direct experience with it.
Don Young
Ken Sterling (Ken Sterling) wrote in message
...
Gang,
Looking for some suggestions here, from the vast knowledge and
experience grouped together in RCM.
I have posted a couple of files to the dropbox (if you care to look)
called windshield.txt and windshield.jpg.
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/windshield.txt
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/windshield.jpg
The project involves a custom shaped windshield, and the mounting
thereof, to a metal autobody. The specially shaped 1/4" plate glass
windshields (one on driver's side, one on passenger's side) need a
molding attached to each "end" of the glass to permit mounting.
I obtained some 3/8" square brass, milled a 1/4" groove (1/4" deep)
along the entire length of the 12" pieces. As I need to "bend" the
"u" channel around the corners of the glass in the shapes shown in the
drawing (hand drawing, not to scale BTW) I tried saw kerfing to create
the bend. That part worked great - however, filling in the kerfs is
another matter. Using the O/A torch with a small tip, I tried filling
in the openings with brass rod = disaster. I'm gonna need (probably)
something brass colored that will melt at a much lower heat or
something. The tips of the u channel where the kerfs were cut melted
away under the flame of the torch and the inside of the 1/4" groove
got ruined also. Now kinda thinking some solder and something to
color the solder to the brass color. .... Any ideas, suggestions
would be appreciated. The drawing in the dropbox is just a rough hand
drawn picture to give you the general idea. If you need more
specifics, I can be e-mailed. Thanks a bunch for any help.
Ken.

Ken Sterling (Ken Sterling) wrote in message
...
Might be less work than kerfing and soldering to build rolling dies and
simply roll the radius into the channel.
JR
Dweller in the cellar
This is something I hadn't thought of... and also something I've never
done before. . . not exactly sure how I would go about it. The bottom
of the "u" channel is about 1/8 thick and is fairly stout. Bending
by hand, with heat applied only produced a wrinkled mess - sigh.
Ken.

What about bending the brass first, then take the high spots down, then cut
the channel?

Seems to me trying to bend the two uprights on the channel the hard way is
always going to cause more mischief than cutting the slot on an irregular
curve. You might be able to accomplish this with some finger saving wood
fixtures and a router bit. If cutting the slot in the tight inside curves
are a problem, perhaps you can mill off a section of the upright and finish
the slot on the mill and then just make up a cover plate you can solder on.

Another idea would be to cut two sets of uprights out of 1/16" thick sheet
stock, and then cut the center section out of 1/4" sheet. Then you could
pin them or jig them and solder them together.


If you take the second route, you might want to make the pieces a little
large and then finish the whole assembly to size.

You might be able to get some scrap graphite from an edm shop to use in
making your soldering fixture so the solder will not stick to the fixture.

--
Roger Shoaf

If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, what does this say about the
Congress?

Here's a thought..
Cut the actual shape of the front and back parts of the channel from
sheet brass. cut the third side as a strip, shape to fit the contour and
solder/braze the three together. Clean up edges with a file. Could be
cut with a scroll saw accurately.

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 01:44:31 GMT, Ken Sterling (Ken Sterling) wrote:


You might try using Sil-Phos (or any of the other names it goes by).

I'm not familiar with this, but will check it out. I'm assuming
(maybe mistakenly) that this is a solder - but you used the term
"braze" in the following sentence....

It's applied at a red heat so the temperature is high enough to put
it in the braze category.

It's what refrigeration guys use to braze copper tubing together. It's
mostly copper with 5-10% silver and a small amount of phosphorus to
make it self fluxing on copper. You'll need to use a high temperature
silver solder flux for the brass despite the self fluxing nature on
copper. I'm not positive it'll work though since it might be a little
high temperature for the brass. I know I had problems the one time I
Can this be done with a heavy soldering iron - or is it torch only??

Nope. A soldering iron won't even come close to getting it hot
enough. That's why I said I'm not positive it'll work. It may melt to
close or even above the melting temperature of brass. It's great for
copper but brass I'm not as sure about. I've had mixed results with my
attempts to use it on brass so you may have to try it and see.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

daniel peterman wrote:
Here's a thought..
Cut the actual shape of the front and back parts of the channel from
sheet brass. cut the third side as a strip, shape to fit the contour and
solder/braze the three together. Clean up edges with a file. Could be
cut with a scroll saw accurately.

Would go along with that. Silver solder, "Eziflo", and the proper
flux would work. Everything needs to fit accurately before
soldering as this stuff does not fill gaps. A few locating pins
would help. Preheat the whole assembly with a nuetral flame until
the flux melts and then flow the solder into the joins. Do it
properly and only a small amount of solder is needed.

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 22:22:49 GMT, Ken Sterling (Ken Sterling) wrote:

Gang,
Looking for some suggestions here, from the vast knowledge and
experience grouped together in RCM.
I have posted a couple of files to the dropbox (if you care to look)
called windshield.txt and windshield.jpg.
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/windshield.txt
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/windshield.jpg
The project involves a custom shaped windshield, and the mounting
thereof, to a metal autobody. The specially shaped 1/4" plate glass
windshields (one on driver's side, one on passenger's side) need a
molding attached to each "end" of the glass to permit mounting.
I obtained some 3/8" square brass, milled a 1/4" groove (1/4" deep)
along the entire length of the 12" pieces. As I need to "bend" the
"u" channel around the corners of the glass in the shapes shown in the
drawing (hand drawing, not to scale BTW) I tried saw kerfing to create
the bend. That part worked great - however, filling in the kerfs is
another matter. Using the O/A torch with a small tip, I tried filling
in the openings with brass rod = disaster. I'm gonna need (probably)
something brass colored that will melt at a much lower heat or
something. The tips of the u channel where the kerfs were cut melted
away under the flame of the torch and the inside of the 1/4" groove
got ruined also. Now kinda thinking some solder and something to
color the solder to the brass color. .... Any ideas, suggestions
would be appreciated. The drawing in the dropbox is just a rough hand
drawn picture to give you the general idea. If you need more
specifics, I can be e-mailed. Thanks a bunch for any help.
Ken.

The most suitable method would depend on how many you need to make.
The issue you have is shrinking of the sidewalls around bends. This
can be done in a number of ways. It could be hammerformed on a jig --
labor intensive but it works well for one-offs by a metal artisan. A
skilled worker might be able to make them with an inside jigplate
and an English Wheel to shape/shrink the sidewalls.

Saw kerfscan be filled with a bridging alloy as Bridge-it or
Barricade. Color match won't be perfect or even good, but you could
separate the color match issue from the forming issue by plating after
forming. Kerf it, form it, jig it, fill the gaps, grind the
outside edges smooth, brass-plate it for color. Send it out or do
it yerself. Caswell Plating offers brass plating.

Ken wrote:

but it just buckled along the sides of the "u"

But you can hammer the buckles flat. While still in the template and
heated.

I was hoping the heating and bending would work but was very
disappointed with the attempt.

What temperature did you hve? Was it glowing?


Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 22:22:49 GMT, Ken Sterling (Ken Sterling) wrote:

Gang,
Looking for some suggestions here, from the vast knowledge and
experience grouped together in RCM.
I have posted a couple of files to the dropbox (if you care to look)
called windshield.txt and windshield.jpg.
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/windshield.txt
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/windshield.jpg
The project involves a custom shaped windshield, and the mounting
thereof, to a metal autobody. The specially shaped 1/4" plate glass
windshields (one on driver's side, one on passenger's side) need a
molding attached to each "end" of the glass to permit mounting.
I obtained some 3/8" square brass, milled a 1/4" groove (1/4" deep)
along the entire length of the 12" pieces. As I need to "bend" the
"u" channel around the corners of the glass in the shapes shown in the
drawing (hand drawing, not to scale BTW) I tried saw kerfing to create
the bend. That part worked great - however, filling in the kerfs is
another matter. Using the O/A torch with a small tip, I tried filling
in the openings with brass rod = disaster. I'm gonna need (probably)
something brass colored that will melt at a much lower heat or
something. The tips of the u channel where the kerfs were cut melted
away under the flame of the torch and the inside of the 1/4" groove
got ruined also. Now kinda thinking some solder and something to
color the solder to the brass color. .... Any ideas, suggestions
would be appreciated. The drawing in the dropbox is just a rough hand
drawn picture to give you the general idea. If you need more
specifics, I can be e-mailed. Thanks a bunch for any help.
Ken.
Ken,
Maybe this seems crazy to you but how about sawing the shape out of
plate and milling the groove? I just did this for a 1/2" thick piece
of glass for a fancy shower. The brass was 3/4" thick. I did this on a
CNC mill though.
Eric

Update on u channel bending....
Starting to get a little success.... Wasn't using "enough"
heat. Thanks for all the tips and suggestions..... Sometimes
wonder how we get into these messes....G
Ken.