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| Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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motor on bicycle
because of the high proce of gas, would putting a motor on a bicycle be
practicle to get to work a few days a week? I live about 18 miles away it is all highway with a wide berm for bicycles. I have a spare 5 horse motor from an old tiller. Could I mount a bracket and put it above my back wheel to drive the back wheel on my 10 speed mountain bike? Would I be able to pedal it home if the engine failed? How would I rig a clutch of some sort or would I even need it? Seems like an interesting project. How fast could you go with a 5 horse motor? |
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http://www.bikemotor.com/
according to their site, these will go about 25-30mph. You could use the pictures as references for your own design. good luck, walt wrote in message oups.com... because of the high proce of gas, would putting a motor on a bicycle be practicle to get to work a few days a week? I live about 18 miles away it is all highway with a wide berm for bicycles. I have a spare 5 horse motor from an old tiller. Could I mount a bracket and put it above my back wheel to drive the back wheel on my 10 speed mountain bike? Would I be able to pedal it home if the engine failed? How would I rig a clutch of some sort or would I even need it? Seems like an interesting project. How fast could you go with a 5 horse motor? |
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Hey! I can tell you a better way to do this. It'd be a lot better just to
go ahead and buy a motorcycle. They come in lots of HP's and speeds, and besides, they are instantly available whereas your experiments would take lots of time and $. Bob Swinney wrote in message oups.com... because of the high proce of gas, would putting a motor on a bicycle be practicle to get to work a few days a week? I live about 18 miles away it is all highway with a wide berm for bicycles. I have a spare 5 horse motor from an old tiller. Could I mount a bracket and put it above my back wheel to drive the back wheel on my 10 speed mountain bike? Would I be able to pedal it home if the engine failed? How would I rig a clutch of some sort or would I even need it? Seems like an interesting project. How fast could you go with a 5 horse motor? |
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wrote:
He's back! How I missed you! because of the high proce of gas, would putting a motor on a bicycle be practicle to get to work a few days a week? How often a week do you go to work? If you really want to save gas, I would go with DHMO. Nasty stuff, but damned cheap! No more gas bills! Read this: http://www.dhmo.org HTH, Nick -- Motor Modelle // Engine Models http://www.motor-manufaktur.de |
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#6
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The old Solex design attached the motor above the front wheel on a
pivot. The motor and drive roller lifted off the wheel to declutch. Check your local Moped laws. |
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#8
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""Nick Müller"" wrote in message ... wrote: He's back! How I missed you! because of the high proce of gas, would putting a motor on a bicycle be practicle to get to work a few days a week? How often a week do you go to work? If you really want to save gas, I would go with DHMO. Nasty stuff, but damned cheap! No more gas bills! I wouldn't wish DHMO on my worst enemy! We've had _severe_ DHMO fallout around our area for the last three weeks. Trees are actually dying! People are getting sick. I've even seen _earthworms_ coming up out of the ground and dying because of it. And in New Orleans, the DHMO pollution has gotten so bad that humans are dying from it. It's terrible. No... NO! Even Stryped shouldn't be maliciously directed toward mis-use of DHMO. C'mon, Nick! Even for your enemies, you oughta have SOME heart! LLoyd |
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#10
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Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
C'mon, Nick! Even for your enemies, you oughta have SOME heart! OK, I nearly got killed when some idiots spreaded a bit of crystal (!) DHMO on the highway! Nick -- Motor Modelle // Engine Models http://www.motor-manufaktur.de |
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On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:29:07 +0200, Nick Müller wrote:
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: C'mon, Nick! Even for your enemies, you oughta have SOME heart! OK, I nearly got killed when some idiots spreaded a bit of crystal (!) DHMO on the highway! Was it the white crystal form, or the black form? The black stuff is much more hazardous, just so you know. |
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"What you are looking for was marketed and known as a "Whizzer" bike back in the 40's and early 50's. The motor mounted in the frame just above and slightly ahead of the pedal crank. Do a google and see what you can find. By the way, I had two and they used a simple centrifugal clutch with v-belt drive to the rear wheel. Should be easy to clone one." Bicycle frames were a lot heavier back then. And Whizzer clones are actually ridiculously expensive, but if you are an amateur machinist and sand crab you might make patterns, pour castings, and make one. |
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wrote in message oups.com... because of the high proce of gas, would putting a motor on a bicycle be practicle to get to work a few days a week? I live about 18 miles away it is all highway with a wide berm for bicycles. I have a spare 5 horse motor from an old tiller. Could I mount a bracket and put it above my back wheel to drive the back wheel on my 10 speed mountain bike? Would I be able to pedal it home if the engine failed? How would I rig a clutch of some sort or would I even need it? Seems like an interesting project. How fast could you go with a 5 horse motor? Plenty fast-I did this about 30 years ago... |
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Back to the future...
See http://www.firstflightbikes.com/whizzer.htm http://www.angelwings.com/whizzer/ http://www.extreme-scooters.com/whizzerpacemaker.htm Your major problem (once you get it running and past the DMV) will be being catapulted into the cemetery by a sweet young thing driving a gigunda SUV and talking on her cell phone. Famous last words you will hear are "but officer, I didn't even see him ..." fade to black Buy a ready to go scooter or motorcycle [I suggest a minimum of 250 cc for US conditions] and take the MSF new riders course [see http://www.msf-usa.org/ ] even if its not required in your state *BEFORE* you hit the road. Always wear a safety helmet. As for your questions about how fast you can go with a 5 hp motor -- fast enough to get killed. On 8 Sep 2005 09:08:36 -0700, wrote: because of the high proce of gas, would putting a motor on a bicycle be practicle to get to work a few days a week? I live about 18 miles away it is all highway with a wide berm for bicycles. I have a spare 5 horse motor from an old tiller. Could I mount a bracket and put it above my back wheel to drive the back wheel on my 10 speed mountain bike? Would I be able to pedal it home if the engine failed? How would I rig a clutch of some sort or would I even need it? Seems like an interesting project. How fast could you go with a 5 horse motor? |
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Dave Hinz wrote:
Was it the white crystal form, or the black form? Yes, the black monocrystal form! :-(( Next day a brief report about that spill of DHMO was in the newspaper. The reponsibles aren't caught yet. Nick -- Motor Modelle // Engine Models http://www.motor-manufaktur.de |
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On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 21:31:53 +0200, Nick Müller wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote: Was it the white crystal form, or the black form? Yes, the black monocrystal form! :-(( Ah yes, we had a problem with that at a fire scene a few years ago. It made the fire department's response very much more hazardous, and quite frankly slowed down the firefighting efforts and effectiveness significantly. Nearly caused significant damage to two of our vehicles, as well. |
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Dave Hinz wrote:
It made the fire department's response very much more hazardous, and quite frankly slowed down the firefighting efforts and effectiveness significantly. No wounder! They use DHMO in nuclear power plants. One can imagine what **that** means. In the beginning of the exploitation of DHMO they used it in nearly 100% pure form! And later, they even heated it up to well obove 200°F! Lots of explosions und people got hurt or killed. But don't think that they quit using DHMO. Research is going on to use a complex gas mixture that, when ignited, produces _pure_ evaporated DHMO. Nick -- Motor Modelle // Engine Models http://www.motor-manufaktur.de |
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#22
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Robert Swinney wrote:
Hey! I can tell you a better way to do this. It'd be a lot better just to go ahead and buy a motorcycle. They come in lots of HP's and speeds, and besides, they are instantly available whereas your experiments would take lots of time and $. So untrue. I did this project, and it cost me a total of 70$ canadian... |
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Nick Müller wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote: It made the fire department's response very much more hazardous, and quite frankly slowed down the firefighting efforts and effectiveness significantly. No wounder! They use DHMO in nuclear power plants. One can imagine what **that** means. In the beginning of the exploitation of DHMO they used it in nearly 100% pure form! And later, they even heated it up to well obove 200°F! Lots of explosions und people got hurt or killed. But don't think that they quit using DHMO. Research is going on to use a complex gas mixture that, when ignited, produces _pure_ evaporated DHMO. Nick I am folowing this thread (sort of) what on earth is "DHMO" ? |
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samc wrote:
I am folowing this thread (sort of) what on earth is "DHMO" ? If you go back to the start, you will find this link: http://www.dhmo.org Nick -- Motor Modelle // Engine Models http://www.motor-manufaktur.de |
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Nick Müller wrote:
samc wrote: I am folowing this thread (sort of) what on earth is "DHMO" ? If you go back to the start, you will find this link: http://www.dhmo.org Nick thanks |
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"JohnM" wrote in message ... wrote: because of the high proce of gas, would putting a motor on a bicycle be practicle to get to work a few days a week? I live about 18 miles away it is all highway with a wide berm for bicycles. I have a spare 5 horse motor from an old tiller. Could I mount a bracket and put it above my back wheel to drive the back wheel on my 10 speed mountain bike? Would I be able to pedal it home if the engine failed? How would I rig a clutch of some sort or would I even need it? Seems like an interesting project. How fast could you go with a 5 horse motor? Use an electric motor, you won't have the fumes and won't have to stop for fuel. Just unroll the extension cord as you go to work and roll it back up again as you come home. A variable frequency drive would allow you to use a 3phase motor and have speed selection, this would be an asset in traffic. John John, Hate to bring up the normal response, but... What gauge wire would that need to be for the extension? VFD would be nice, but lose about 1/3 of the HP on the motor. RPC might be a better choice. -- Chris If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a soldier. If it is in ebonics, thank your Congressman. |
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According to Chris :
"JohnM" wrote in message ... [ ... ] Use an electric motor, you won't have the fumes and won't have to stop for fuel. Just unroll the extension cord as you go to work and roll it back up again as you come home. A variable frequency drive would allow you to use a 3phase motor and have speed selection, this would be an asset in traffic. John John, Hate to bring up the normal response, but... What gauge wire would that need to be for the extension? The obvious response is: How long does the extension cord need to be? :-) I figure just over 15.5 A at a full 5 HP with a 240V line. You probably want no more than a 10V loss over the length of the extension cord, so you want less than 0.041 Ohms. So -- 4-0 wire would be pretty close at 1000 feet total length (that is 500 feet away from the outlet). 0000 1000' total or 500' loop #8 66' total or 33' loop #6 104' total, or 52' loop #16 10.3' total or 5.2' loop If you insist on having 5 HP, you had probably better plan to stick pretty close to home. :-) Oh yes -- 4-0 (0000) is 640.5 pounds/1000 feet. :-) Now -- you can reduce the current, and thus increase the distance or reduce the gauge by stepping the voltage up high and reducing it with a transformer on the bike -- but that would add enough weight to neutralize the benefits. (Not to mention the extra cost of high-voltage insulation on your extension cord. :-) VFD would be nice, but lose about 1/3 of the HP on the motor. RPC might be a better choice. Huh? How do you expect to lose 1/3 of the motor's horsepower with a VFD? With a so-called "static" phase converter (which in reality is a starting capacitor and the necessary switching to take it out once the motor is started), yes -- you would lose about 1/3 of the motor's horsepower rating. Now -- you might want to over-rate the VFD a bit if you are going to be drawing full rating from it for long. But even a 7.5 HP VFD will weigh a lot less than the 5HP motor. I know, because I've got an old one on my shop wall. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#28
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"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... According to Chris : "JohnM" wrote in message ... [ ... ] Use an electric motor, you won't have the fumes and won't have to stop for fuel. Just unroll the extension cord as you go to work and roll it back up again as you come home. A variable frequency drive would allow you to use a 3phase motor and have speed selection, this would be an asset in traffic. John John, Hate to bring up the normal response, but... What gauge wire would that need to be for the extension? The obvious response is: How long does the extension cord need to be? :-) I figure just over 15.5 A at a full 5 HP with a 240V line. You probably want no more than a 10V loss over the length of the extension cord, so you want less than 0.041 Ohms. So -- 4-0 wire would be pretty close at 1000 feet total length (that is 500 feet away from the outlet). 0000 1000' total or 500' loop #8 66' total or 33' loop #6 104' total, or 52' loop #16 10.3' total or 5.2' loop If you insist on having 5 HP, you had probably better plan to stick pretty close to home. :-) Oh yes -- 4-0 (0000) is 640.5 pounds/1000 feet. :-) Now -- you can reduce the current, and thus increase the distance or reduce the gauge by stepping the voltage up high and reducing it with a transformer on the bike -- but that would add enough weight to neutralize the benefits. (Not to mention the extra cost of high-voltage insulation on your extension cord. :-) OK so since we are limited to 500Ft and a distance of 18miles I think I have a solution. Granted the option of using a higher transmission voltage cannot be used with this solution; neighbors do not have a high voltage lug. What I am thinking is making friends with the neighbors. Granted not all would be willing, but you could win them over with "I am saving the environment". Better yet if the OP is in a liberal area as he will definitely find some suckers there. So: 18 miles * 5280 feet = 95040 feet 95040 / 500 (length of extension) = 190.08 neighbors. For the sake of simplicity I think it is safe to assume at least one down hill run and we can round the neighbors down to 190. So 500 feet of cable and 190 kind neighbors allowing him to plug his bike in. This now brings up the problem of cable return (How does he get the cable back to plug it into the next house) . I would think some type of geared rig to compensate for the 640lbs of cable and associated friction could be rigged to the 5hp motor to coil the wire back up. Allowing him to plug into the next house. Problem is if the OP lives in a rural area with no or few neighbors. Than I would suggest contacting the local power company. See if they would let you climb the pole and hookup. This would also allow the use of a higher voltage, thus a longer run. More info would be needed from the OP as to the actual supply voltage along the streets on his route. VFD would be nice, but lose about 1/3 of the HP on the motor. RPC might be a better choice. Huh? How do you expect to lose 1/3 of the motor's horsepower with a VFD? With a so-called "static" phase converter (which in reality is a starting capacitor and the necessary switching to take it out once the motor is started), yes -- you would lose about 1/3 of the motor's horsepower rating. OPPS Brain slip. I got static converters and VFDs confused. Good thing I am not designing this thing. Now -- you might want to over-rate the VFD a bit if you are going to be drawing full rating from it for long. But even a 7.5 HP VFD will weigh a lot less than the 5HP motor. I know, because I've got an old one on my shop wall. Enjoy, DoN. Tried looking up some rulings in the old NEC book, but cannot find any reference to powered bicycles at all. At least the insurance company cannot refuse ya if you get hurt on the thing. -- Chris If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a soldier. If it is in ebonics, thank your Congressman. |
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#29
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Chris wrote:
"JohnM" wrote in message ... wrote: because of the high proce of gas, would putting a motor on a bicycle be practicle to get to work a few days a week? I live about 18 miles away it is all highway with a wide berm for bicycles. I have a spare 5 horse motor from an old tiller. Could I mount a bracket and put it above my back wheel to drive the back wheel on my 10 speed mountain bike? Would I be able to pedal it home if the engine failed? How would I rig a clutch of some sort or would I even need it? Seems like an interesting project. How fast could you go with a 5 horse motor? Use an electric motor, you won't have the fumes and won't have to stop for fuel. Just unroll the extension cord as you go to work and roll it back up again as you come home. A variable frequency drive would allow you to use a 3phase motor and have speed selection, this would be an asset in traffic. John John, Hate to bring up the normal response, but... What gauge wire would that need to be for the extension? VFD would be nice, but lose about 1/3 of the HP on the motor. RPC might be a better choice. Of course, if he lives in a city with electric trolley buses then all of his problems disapear. More people could make use of this free and convenient overhead power source. 400 volts DC and enough current available for even the most outrageously overpowered electric bicycle. |
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#30
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"Roger_Nickel" wrote in message ... Chris wrote: "JohnM" wrote in message ... wrote: because of the high proce of gas, would putting a motor on a bicycle be practicle to get to work a few days a week? I live about 18 miles away it is all highway with a wide berm for bicycles. I have a spare 5 horse motor from an old tiller. Could I mount a bracket and put it above my back wheel to drive the back wheel on my 10 speed mountain bike? Would I be able to pedal it home if the engine failed? How would I rig a clutch of some sort or would I even need it? Seems like an interesting project. How fast could you go with a 5 horse motor? Use an electric motor, you won't have the fumes and won't have to stop for fuel. Just unroll the extension cord as you go to work and roll it back up again as you come home. A variable frequency drive would allow you to use a 3phase motor and have speed selection, this would be an asset in traffic. John John, Hate to bring up the normal response, but... What gauge wire would that need to be for the extension? VFD would be nice, but lose about 1/3 of the HP on the motor. RPC might be a better choice. Of course, if he lives in a city with electric trolley buses then all of his problems disapear. More people could make use of this free and convenient overhead power source. 400 volts DC and enough current available for even the most outrageously overpowered electric bicycle. LMAO. Although very feasible. Could you imagine some nut driving around with a pole on his bicycle to catch the power from the trolley lines? Better yet, no tires to wear as he would have to ride on the track as well. Than again San Fran is full of nuts and trolleys. Wonder why we have not seen it. -- Chris If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a soldier. If it is in ebonics, thank your Congressman. |
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#31
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On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:41:54 GMT, Ed Earl Ross
wrote: wrote: because of the high proce of gas, would putting a motor on a bicycle be practicle to get to work a few days a week? I live about 18 miles away it is all highway with a wide berm for bicycles. I have a spare 5 horse motor from an old tiller. Could I mount a bracket and put it above my back wheel to drive the back wheel on my 10 speed mountain bike? Would I be able to pedal it home if the engine failed? How would I rig a clutch of some sort or would I even need it? Seems like an interesting project. How fast could you go with a 5 horse motor? Some places the speed of unlicensed vehicles and motorized bicycles is limited, check your local laws. In most Canadian jurisdictions any powered bicycle that CAN move on it's own, without pedaling, is considered a moped - limited to 50cc engine displacement and, IIRC, 25MPH. Anything else (bigger, faster, or no pedals) is a motorcycle. Both need to be licenced. Both require a driver's licence to operate - a moped can be driven on an automotive licence. If you can design it that it can ONLY move if you are pedaling, it becomes a motor assisted bicycle and MAY be allowed to run without a licence. Virtually the only way this has been done is with electric power. |
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#32
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On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 23:41:59 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:
Now -- you can reduce the current, and thus increase the distance or reduce the gauge by stepping the voltage up high and reducing it with a transformer on the bike -- but that would add enough weight to neutralize the benefits. AH! But if you put the transformer (and wire) in a TRAILER then the bicycle will stay the same weight!!1 In fact, running with that logic, if the cyclist himself were to be seated in the trailer then the system would be even MORE efficient!!!! |
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#33
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wrote: because of the high proce of gas, would putting a motor on a bicycle be practicle to get to work a few days a week? I live about 18 miles away it is all highway with a wide berm for bicycles. I have a spare 5 horse motor from an old tiller. Could I mount a bracket and put it above my back wheel to drive the back wheel on my 10 speed mountain bike? Would I be able to pedal it home if the engine failed? How would I rig a clutch of some sort or would I even need it? Seems like an interesting project. How fast could you go with a 5 horse motor? Well your about 100 years to late. The early motorcycles were all bicycles with added gas engines. As for current ones. the Whizzer bikes are still available as is an add on engine for bikes that uses a 2 stroke and a contact wheel to drive a standard bike. Top speed is around 20 mph. As for a 5 HP, you could get a top speed around 60 without much work. BUT then it would be a motorcycle in most states. -- Steve W. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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"Artemia Salina" wrote in message news  On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 23:41:59 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote: Now -- you can reduce the current, and thus increase the distance or reduce the gauge by stepping the voltage up high and reducing it with a transformer on the bike -- but that would add enough weight to neutralize the benefits. AH! But if you put the transformer (and wire) in a TRAILER then the bicycle will stay the same weight!!1 In fact, running with that logic, if the cyclist himself were to be seated in the trailer then the system would be even MORE efficient!!!! Of course! But the robotic controls and the associated processing equipment would surely outweigh the person pedaling the bike. -- Chris If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a soldier. If it is in ebonics, thank your Congressman. |
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#35
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On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:50:46 -0400, Chris wrote:
"Artemia Salina" wrote in message news On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 23:41:59 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote: Now -- you can reduce the current, and thus increase the distance or reduce the gauge by stepping the voltage up high and reducing it with a transformer on the bike -- but that would add enough weight to neutralize the benefits. AH! But if you put the transformer (and wire) in a TRAILER then the bicycle will stay the same weight!!1 In fact, running with that logic, if the cyclist himself were to be seated in the trailer then the system would be even MORE efficient!!!! Of course! But the robotic controls and the associated processing equipment would surely outweigh the person pedaling the bike. NO NO NO!! You attach airfoils to the robotics to provide LIFT!! |
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samc wrote:
Nick Müller wrote: samc wrote: I am folowing this thread (sort of) what on earth is "DHMO" ? If you go back to the start, you will find this link: http://www.dhmo.org Nick thanks We really need to do something about this, have you spoken with your neighbors? If you haven't, please do.. it takes all of us to make the world a better place. John |
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On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 09:08:36 -0700, stryped wrote:
How fast could you go with a 5 horse motor? About as fast as five horses. If its a ten-speed bike then each speed will let you faster by half of a horse, so that in first gear you can go as fast as half of a horse, second gear will be like one whole horse, third gear you can go as fast as one and one half horses, etc. |
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#38
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Chris wrote:
95040 / 500 (length of extension) = 190.08 neighbors. But with 500 feet extension, you can go a distance of 1000 feet. Nick -- Motor Modelle // Engine Models http://www.motor-manufaktur.de |
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#39
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On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:37:13 +0200, Nick Müller wrote:
Chris wrote: 95040 / 500 (length of extension) = 190.08 neighbors. But with 500 feet extension, you can go a distance of 1000 feet. Oh I think if you had 500 feet you could go a lot farther than that. He probably wouldn't even need the bicycle then. |
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#40
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Artemia Salina wrote:
Oh I think if you had 500 feet you could go a lot farther than that. In cicles? Yes. :-) Nick -- Motor Modelle // Engine Models http://www.motor-manufaktur.de |
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