In article , Willy B. says...

What? Your kid got knocked up at the age of 14? That's the government's
responsibility for not handing out enough condoms in her school. It's not
HER fault.

The problem with this approach is, the government down there was in
fact building and maintaining the system of dikes and pumps to keep
the city, well, afloat.

And if you talked to anyone concerned two months ago, they probably
would have said, 'no problem.' That the recent events would be
rated as being once every thousand year happenings or so.

What should they do, just abandon the city as is, where is, and
re-build on higher ground? Or start trucking in fill...?

No existing govenment is going to say 'well we can't live here any
more. We're disbanding our jobs, your homes, your businesses, because
it isn't safe here. There would be riots!

Oh wait, there *are* riots...

Jim


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==================================================
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jim rozen wrote:

What should they do, just abandon the city as is, where is, and
re-build on higher ground? Or start trucking in fill...?

I've got two suggestions.

First, everyone in America should mail a box of dirt to New Orleans. The
delivery people can just start sprinkling it around like in "The Great
Escape". Just think of what 300 million boxes of dirt would do for New
Orleans. Or bricks; they'd help out a lot too.

Second, GO WITH THE WATER THEME! New Orleans could be the Venice of
America. Open up the levees and let the Mississippi flush New Orleans
out on a continual basis.

Pete (in St. Paul, MN)

In article , Pete Bergstrom says...

First, everyone in America should mail a box of dirt to New Orleans. The
delivery people can just start sprinkling it around like in "The Great
Escape". Just think of what 300 million boxes of dirt would do for New
Orleans. Or bricks; they'd help out a lot too.

Second, GO WITH THE WATER THEME! New Orleans could be the Venice of
America. Open up the levees and let the Mississippi flush New Orleans
out on a continual basis.

Not a bad idea. Re-build the buildings with the first 20 feet
as public spaces, down at street level.

Jim


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On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:16:42 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

I find it interesting that various members of this newsgroup have made
idiotic comments over the years about survivalists, how they are
paranoid kibble horders yada yada yada.

I wonder how many survivalists in NO are standing in neck deep water
and hoping the criminals dont find them before the Coast Guard does.

How many were so stupid that they stayed? ALL of them?

I can see them now .... standing on their rooftops,
fully armed, defending their life savings, all saved
as mouldy piles of infested kibble in their basements.

While begging any liberals that pass by in boats for
a free ride to someplace dry.
--
Cliff

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 12:18:39 -0400, Kirk Gordon
wrote:

Go hide in woods, Gunner. You'll be safer and happier there.

Has anyone mentioned bears lately VBG?
--
Cliff

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 14:47:41 -0400, Kirk Gordon
wrote:

But when you bring things like survivalism and firearms into the
discussion, then I think the story of the three little pigs is a better
fable. One pig was lazy, and built a house out of straw. The wolf blew
that one down with ease. The second pig was smarter; but not by much.
His house of sticks wasn't enough preparation, and the wolf got him,
too. The "smartest" of the pigs built a strong house of bricks, which
the wolf couldn't destroy. So that smart, clever, well-prepared pig
survived - alone, without neighbor pigs, and with only the wolf to greet
him if he ever dared to step outside his door. If you called that pig
today, he'd probably say that he'd been vidicated, that he'd done
exactly the right thing. After all, there IS a hungry wolf outside.
Just go to the window and look!

The wolf is the survivalist.
And wil probably starve as soon as the kibble is gone.
--
Cliff

On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:53:43 -0700, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:

Kinda makes ya wonder about the demographic split amongst the group of
folks that decided not to evacuate......and the motivation behind their
decision to stay.

Consider the laws on salvage.
No power + rising water == flooding soon.
Should all that food be left to spoil?
Should people lacking food & water starve?

Most of it will probably just be bulldozed later anyway, if
they even bother with that. A dead loss unless salvaged
now by those that hope to be abe to use it.
Think about it. Not that that excuses all of it.
--
Cliff

"Cliff" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:53:43 -0700, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:

Kinda makes ya wonder about the demographic split amongst the group of
folks that decided not to evacuate......and the motivation behind their
decision to stay.

Consider the laws on salvage.
No power + rising water == flooding soon.
Should all that food be left to spoil?
Should people lacking food & water starve?

Most of it will probably just be bulldozed later anyway, if
they even bother with that. A dead loss unless salvaged
now by those that hope to be abe to use it.
Think about it. Not that that excuses all of it.


Yup.....

And since your out scavenging anyways....really no reason to let all those
guns, televisions, jewelry, etc...go to waste !!!

--

SVL

I hear that large doses of Liberalism can be fatal.

al in colorado

On 1 Sep 2005 16:33:16 -0700, wrote:

I hear that large doses of Liberalism can be fatal.

al in colorado

Its being proved in New Somalia..er New Orleans

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 02:51:30 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Im suggesting one should take some personal
responsibility

Found those "WMDs" yet?
--
Cliff

In article ,
jim rozen wrote:

In article , Pete Bergstrom says...

First, everyone in America should mail a box of dirt to New Orleans. The
delivery people can just start sprinkling it around like in "The Great
Escape". Just think of what 300 million boxes of dirt would do for New
Orleans. Or bricks; they'd help out a lot too.

Second, GO WITH THE WATER THEME! New Orleans could be the Venice of
America. Open up the levees and let the Mississippi flush New Orleans
out on a continual basis.

Not a bad idea. Re-build the buildings with the first 20 feet
as public spaces, down at street level.

Consider that New Orleans is a manufactured problem. The city was built
on high ground, and pumped out the ground water and made the city sink
below sea level.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

In article , Gunner says...

I hear that large doses of Liberalism can be fatal.

Its being proved in New Somalia..er New Orleans

I suspect that just as many republicans died or are going to
die in that situation as democrats. Hurricanes don't really
check the voting records.

If you're saying they deserved it then you're in bed with
ol' pat robetson and jerry fallwel.

Jim


--
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==================================================

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 03:50:29 -0400, Cliff wrote:

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 20:08:58 -0700, Pope Secola VI
wrote:

Looks like the neocons had gutted FEMA, which USED to
be a cabinet post (it's now way down under homeland insecurity).


Hey **** for brains do you home work. FEMA has never been a cabinet post.

"The Clinton White House elevated the FEMA director to a cabinet
position that reported directly to the president."

"NY Times advanced Bush administration's dubious suggestion that
FEMA is "better prepare[d]" to handle hurricane crisis than before
9-11"

".... the Bush administration reduced FEMA's status after the
September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks by folding the agency into the
Department of Homeland Security, which likely hampered the agency's
ability to respond to natural disasters like Katrina."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200509010006

What do wingers use for brains?

Little Cliffie, not realizing that he is a left winger, posts a question which
ridicules left wingers(like himself) along with the other wingers.

Just curious ....

As well as vague and confused, as usual.

On 2 Sep 2005 07:41:18 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

I hear that large doses of Liberalism can be fatal.

Its being proved in New Somalia..er New Orleans

I suspect that just as many republicans died or are going to
die in that situation as democrats. Hurricanes don't really
check the voting records.

If you're saying they deserved it then you're in bed with
ol' pat robetson and jerry fallwel.

Jim

Where did you get the Deserved to die concept? Wishful thinking on
your part that Id said that?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 16:32:01 GMT, the blithe spirit Gunner
clearly indicated:

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 11:00:30 GMT, Nick Hull
wrote:

Clearly Katrina was a WMD, a nuclear bomb would have caused less damage
& death.


Very true indeed.

Damage, yes. Death? I doubt it, though cholera, etc. could get a lot
more in the next few weeks.


..-.
Life is short. Eat dessert first!
---
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

In article , Gunner says...

If you're saying they deserved it then you're in bed with
ol' pat robetson and jerry fallwel.

Where did you get the Deserved to die concept?

Well, you say they're liberals. And I know how you feel
about those folks....

Jim


--
==================================================
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==================================================

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:08:52 -0400, Cliff wrote:

On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:53:43 -0700, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:

Kinda makes ya wonder about the demographic split amongst the group of
folks that decided not to evacuate......and the motivation behind their
decision to stay.

Consider the laws on salvage.
No power + rising water == flooding soon.
Should all that food be left to spoil?
Should people lacking food & water starve?

The most important survival items are (1) numerous pairs of Air
Jordans, and (2) big screen tv sets.


RJ

On 2 Sep 2005 11:01:44 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

If you're saying they deserved it then you're in bed with
ol' pat robetson and jerry fallwel.

Where did you get the Deserved to die concept?

Well, you say they're liberals. And I know how you feel
about those folks....

Jim


So you made it up from whole cloth then. Correct?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

In article , Gunner Asch says...

Well, you say they're liberals. And I know how you feel
about those folks....

So you made it up from whole cloth then. Correct?

Made it up from your standard vilification of 'all things
liberal.'

Your view: they were liberals, they were stupid, they were
going to be victims. Smart conservatives would have skedaddled
before the crisis.

Jim


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jim rozen wrote:

Why didn't somebody say, put those busses to work? Break in and
commandeer them, apppoint drivers, give each one a map and say,
pick up a busload and just *drive*.

Did you see that fellow Greta inverviewed last night? Found a school bus
office torn open, grabbed a key and matched it to a bus. Fired the
sucker up and headed out of town picking up folks as he went. They all
pooled money along the way to Houston for gas.

Real initiative almost always shows up at the individual level.

Jon

On 3 Sep 2005 07:13:13 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner Asch says...

Well, you say they're liberals. And I know how you feel
about those folks....

So you made it up from whole cloth then. Correct?

Made it up from your standard vilification of 'all things
liberal.'

So then you admit fabricating?


Your view: they were liberals, they were stupid, they were
going to be victims. Smart conservatives would have skedaddled
before the crisis.

Jim

Smart anyone would have skeddadeld

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On 3 Sep 2005 07:27:33 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner Asch says...

Odd..I saw the picture of the 200 odd school buses that were under
water..caught by the rising flood long after the dikes broke..I
wonder..hummm whythey didnt have them pulling folks out of the area,

Why indeed.

Why didn't somebody say, put those busses to work? Break in and
commandeer them, apppoint drivers, give each one a map and say,
pick up a busload and just *drive*.

The real trouble here isn't the hurricane. It's the apparent
lack of iniative and leadership on a grand scale that surpises
me. Nobody took charge. It's become a grand Cluster **** of
the highest order.

Jim

Im glad you agree that the Democrats in charge screwed the pooch.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 08:13:55 -0700, Jon Anderson
wrote:

jim rozen wrote:

Why didn't somebody say, put those busses to work? Break in and
commandeer them, apppoint drivers, give each one a map and say,
pick up a busload and just *drive*.

Did you see that fellow Greta inverviewed last night? Found a school bus
office torn open, grabbed a key and matched it to a bus. Fired the
sucker up and headed out of town picking up folks as he went. They all
pooled money along the way to Houston for gas.

Real initiative almost always shows up at the individual level.

Jon

Oh NO Jon..no can do!! We cant be self reliant!! We Must wait for
the Collective to help us!

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Gunner Asch wrote:

Oh NO Jon..no can do!! We cant be self reliant!! We Must wait for
the Collective to help us!

I didn't go to that school.... G


Jon

On 3 Sep 2005 07:27:33 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner Asch says...

Odd..I saw the picture of the 200 odd school buses that were under
water..caught by the rising flood long after the dikes broke..I
wonder..hummm whythey didnt have them pulling folks out of the area,

Why indeed.

Why didn't somebody say, put those busses to work? Break in and
commandeer them, apppoint drivers, give each one a map and say,
pick up a busload and just *drive*.

The real trouble here isn't the hurricane. It's the apparent
lack of iniative and leadership on a grand scale that surpises
me. Nobody took charge. It's become a grand Cluster **** of
the highest order.

Jim

You get that sort of thing when an entire culture has been
indoctinated with the idea they Deserve to be served.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 11:14:12 -0700, Jon Anderson
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

Oh NO Jon..no can do!! We cant be self reliant!! We Must wait for
the Collective to help us!

I didn't go to that school.... G


Jon


I know..but far far too many here..graduated at the top of that class.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

In article , Gunner Asch says...

Smart anyone would have skeddadeld

And the ones that didn't? What do you do with them?


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Cliffie ...get a life


Cliff wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 12:18:39 -0400, Kirk Gordon
wrote:


Go hide in woods, Gunner. You'll be safer and happier there.


Has anyone mentioned bears lately VBG?

Such a small mind with such a big ego.
Just for the record, even the Boy Scouts say be prepared, so their
survivalists too ?
Well Cliffie ?

Cliff wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 14:47:41 -0400, Kirk Gordon
wrote:


But when you bring things like survivalism and firearms into the
discussion, then I think the story of the three little pigs is a better
fable. One pig was lazy, and built a house out of straw. The wolf blew
that one down with ease. The second pig was smarter; but not by much.
His house of sticks wasn't enough preparation, and the wolf got him,
too. The "smartest" of the pigs built a strong house of bricks, which
the wolf couldn't destroy. So that smart, clever, well-prepared pig
survived - alone, without neighbor pigs, and with only the wolf to greet
him if he ever dared to step outside his door. If you called that pig
today, he'd probably say that he'd been vidicated, that he'd done
exactly the right thing. After all, there IS a hungry wolf outside.
Just go to the window and look!


The wolf is the survivalist.
And wil probably starve as soon as the kibble is gone.

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 16:03:56 GMT, Marc wrote:

Cliffie ...get a life


Cliff wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 12:18:39 -0400, Kirk Gordon
wrote:


Go hide in woods, Gunner. You'll be safer and happier there.


Has anyone mentioned bears lately VBG?

What do you have against Gunner & his bears?
--
Cliff

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 16:06:08 GMT, Marc wrote:

Such a small mind with such a big ego.

You have LOTS of kibble, eh?

LOL ...
--
Cliff

On 4 Sep 2005 05:52:01 -0700, jim rozen wrote:
In article , Gunner Asch says...

Smart anyone would have skeddadeld

And the ones that didn't? What do you do with them?

Fish their bodies out of the water, apparently. The knew this was
coming for _days_ before it hit. You can only do so much; at some point
people are responsible for their own actions.