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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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vertical bandsaw confusion, aka why is Jet VSF-14-1 cheaper than VBS-1408
I am ignorant, please help!
I am considering purchase of a vertical bandsaw...I have horizontal but would like a vertical for making cuts prior to forging (e.g., a 2" slit down center of 1" bar). Never saw the use for one when I was first learning, but it seems more and more like a tool I need. I don't understand, though, why a tool like the Jet VBS-1408 is $3600 whereas the Jet VSF-14-1 (x is more than $1500 cheaper...seems like self feed would be a good thing, and I'm not sure I see or understand the value in variable speed, if you have 4 speeds to choose from 70, 140, 280, 580. What advantages are there with the more expensive saw (both way about 580 pounds and have a 1 hp motor) -- is it just the convenience of variable speed, or is it more suitable to precision cuts? http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cf...ail&iid=137418 http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cf...ail&iid=137420 I need single phase and a used saw on ebay is possible, if I can find something decent near me. Still, I would love to be educated, because I would have thought the self-feed saw would have been more expensive! Thanks, -Todd |
#2
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In article . com,
Tod wrote: I am ignorant, please help! I am considering purchase of a vertical bandsaw...I have horizontal but would like a vertical for making cuts prior to forging (e.g., a 2" slit down center of 1" bar). Never saw the use for one when I was first learning, but it seems more and more like a tool I need. I don't understand, though, why a tool like the Jet VBS-1408 is $3600 whereas the Jet VSF-14-1 (x is more than $1500 cheaper...seems like self feed would be a good thing, and I'm not sure I see or understand the value in variable speed, if you have 4 speeds to choose from 70, 140, 280, 580. What advantages are there with the more expensive saw (both way about 580 pounds and have a 1 hp motor) -- is it just the convenience of variable speed, or is it more suitable to precision cuts? First off -- I can tell you from experience that if the speed change requires shifting belts, people are likely to say "Just a little cut at that wrong speed won't hurt it." and burn up a blade. Being able to just turn a crank is a big help. Aside from that, I note that there are two styles of the variable-speed bandsaw. One has a single range: (82 - 330 SFM), while the other has two ranges: (82 - 330 and 985 to 3950 SFM). I would opt for the latter version, unless everything that I was going to cut would be steel -- and even with steel, there are advantages to being able to go to nearly 4000 SFM. Have you ever heard of "friction sawing"? You crank the saw up to the top speed, with a toothless or worn out blade, and *burn* your way through the steel. For cutting aluminum, especially fairly thick aluminum, the higher speeds are a lot better as well. The self-feeding of the other makes it excellent for cutting stock to length (with proper supports and guides for the ends of the stock.) It is a serious PITA if you want to cut out a shape in steel or some other metal. There, you want a level stationary table, and to be able to slide the workpiece around to follow layout lines. It looks as though that self-feeding saw has a table only on one side of the blade, meaning that you will have no support for part of your workpiece, making it difficult to keep level as you slide it around. Also -- sometimes, what you want to do is to make a cutout in the middle of a workpiece. For that, you drill a hole in the waste stock in the middle, cut the bandsaw blade, thread it through, and use the welder (which is only on the variable speed saw) to join the ends. Then you cut out the inner part, and cut the bandsaw blade again to get it out -- all without having a saw kerf from the outside to the inside. Of the two, if I could have only one (and I don't have either of those), *I* would pick the variable-speed one with the welder and the dual speed range as the more versatile. This is important to me because I seldom do the same thing twice in a row on a bandsaw -- other than using my cheap horizontal for cutting stock to length. I have another (three-wheel benchtop) with three speeds for cutting out shapes. If I were running a production line, where the same metal and the same size would be cut day after day, the self-feed saw could be set to the proper speed for the material *once* and then cut all day every day. I hope that this helps, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#3
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On 28 Aug 2005 17:15:18 -0700, "Tod" wrote:
I am ignorant, please help! I am considering purchase of a vertical bandsaw...I have horizontal but would like a vertical for making cuts prior to forging (e.g., a 2" slit down center of 1" bar). Never saw the use for one when I was first learning, but it seems more and more like a tool I need. I don't understand, though, why a tool like the Jet VBS-1408 is $3600 whereas the Jet VSF-14-1 (x is more than $1500 cheaper...seems like self feed would be a good thing, and I'm not sure I see or understand the value in variable speed, if you have 4 speeds to choose from 70, 140, 280, 580. What advantages are there with the more expensive saw (both way about 580 pounds and have a 1 hp motor) -- is it just the convenience of variable speed, or is it more suitable to precision cuts? http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cf...ail&iid=137418 http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cf...ail&iid=137420 I need single phase and a used saw on ebay is possible, if I can find something decent near me. Still, I would love to be educated, because I would have thought the self-feed saw would have been more expensive! I think the four speeds on the VSF are spaced too far apart. Why did you reject the Wilton 8201 and 8201VS? They're not as heavy as the Jets, but they have a cast iron frame. They're considerably less money than the Jets. I have an 8201, am completely satisfied with it. It'll cut 1" bar (and thicker) no problem at all. |
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Why did you reject the Wilton 8201 and 8201VS? They're not as heavy as the Jets, but they have a cast iron frame. They're considerably less money than the Jets. I have an 8201, am completely satisfied with it. It'll cut 1" bar (and thicker) no problem at all. How big of a table is on the 8201? Didn't see it mentioned in the specs, looked quite small. I have a plasma cutter for cutting shapes in plate and general construction where finish isn't too important (or grinder can fix later)...I need the bandsaw for when precision is important, but mostly just to make deep (partial) cuts into bar (1" or 1/2", occassionally bigger). You have the 8201K or 8201VS? I will add it back on the list, :-) Thanks for any and all comments. -Tod p.s. but still my question, where are the extra $$$ going in the expensive jet without self feed? The drivetrain? |
#5
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The VBS unit has a continually varible speed drive system in it. The
chip blower is garbage, repower it by using a regulator and shop air. Craig C. |
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On 28 Aug 2005 21:31:14 -0700, "Tod" wrote:
Why did you reject the Wilton 8201 and 8201VS? They're not as heavy as the Jets, but they have a cast iron frame. They're considerably less money than the Jets. I have an 8201, am completely satisfied with it. It'll cut 1" bar (and thicker) no problem at all. How big of a table is on the 8201? Didn't see it mentioned in the specs, looked quite small. I have a plasma cutter for cutting shapes in plate and general construction where finish isn't too important (or grinder can fix later)...I need the bandsaw for when precision is important, but mostly just to make deep (partial) cuts into bar (1" or 1/2", occassionally bigger). You have the 8201K or 8201VS? I will add it back on the list, :-) Thanks for any and all comments. The table is 14 x 14. I have the 8201K. I might have liked the VS better but not enough better to pay the additional price. I don't change speeds that often. I seldom cut anything thicker than 1", often cut stuff considerably thinner than 1". In addition, the 8201K has the high "woodcutting" speed which is also good for aluminum. It really romps thru aluminum! |
#7
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I think it is great to have a vertical band saw. But, for the cuts you
describe below, why not just use your horizontal saw in the vertical mode (if it has one)? I have a Taiwan 4X6 1/2" saw that I use all the time as a vertical saw. Cuts quite well for the sizes you mention. If your saw does go vertical and doesn't have a little table, make one. I have seen some of these saws that come with a bolt-on table that is about 6 inches square. I had one. Never used it. Made a table that is about one inch by about 1 1/2". That way, I don't have to remove it to saw horizontally. To use the saw in this mode, you straddle it, using your heels to keep the machine from moving as you push. Pete Stanaitis --------------------- Tod wrote: I am ignorant, please help! I am considering purchase of a vertical bandsaw...I have horizontal but would like a vertical for making cuts prior to forging (e.g., a 2" slit down center of 1" bar). Never saw the use for one when I was first learning, but it seems more and more like a tool I need. |
#8
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My horizontal is an old kalamazoo and it does not have anything even
approaching a vertical mode... I wish it did... I thought about trying to rig something up, but it is a nice old heavy saw, and forcing it to go vertical seems tricky... maybe I will just sell it after I get a vertical, I'll take another look though, just to make sure there isn't a simple approach to making it go vertical...thanks for the suggestion |
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