I have a lincoln Mig welder requiring 230V 20A single phase power. I
have a welding job to do where there is no power available. It has the
Nema 6-50P 3 prong style plug.

I have a coleman 5000W run / 6250W max generator that has a 120/240 20A
4 prong twist lock style receptacle Nema style L14-20R.

Is this 4 prong receptacle 3 phase power? I purchased a 6-50 3 prong
receptacle, and L14-20 plug hoping to make some sort of adapter cable
so I could use my welder with the generator.

Is this possible with what I have? Can I just pull single phase 220
power from the X and Y out of the 4 prong plug (leaving the W
disconnected)? If not, is there a generator that has a 220V single
phase receptacle on it?

Thanks.

Terry wrote:
I have a lincoln Mig welder requiring 230V 20A single phase power. I
have a welding job to do where there is no power available. It has the
Nema 6-50P 3 prong style plug.

I have a coleman 5000W run / 6250W max generator that has a 120/240 20A
4 prong twist lock style receptacle Nema style L14-20R.

Is this 4 prong receptacle 3 phase power?
Very unlikely. That should be essentially the same as a 240 V home
power panel. 240 V with a neutral, so you have two 120 V circuits
and one 240 V circuit. The 4th prong is safety ground.
I purchased a 6-50 3 prong
receptacle, and L14-20 plug hoping to make some sort of adapter cable
so I could use my welder with the generator.

Is this possible with what I have? Can I just pull single phase 220
power from the X and Y out of the 4 prong plug (leaving the W
disconnected)? If not, is there a generator that has a 220V single
phase receptacle on it?
I'm not clear on the X Y W wiring. You should use a meter to verify
which terminals are the 240 V before wiring up the adaptor.
The safety ground should be pretty obvious, but on the twist lock
it is the prong with the flange.

This welder may be at the upper limit of the generator, and will
probably cause the engine to surge and dip a bit as the arc sputters.
If you are not maxing out the welder, it should work fine.

Jon

"Terry" wrote in message
oups.com...
| I have a lincoln Mig welder requiring 230V 20A single phase power. I
| have a welding job to do where there is no power available. It has the
| Nema 6-50P 3 prong style plug.
|
| I have a coleman 5000W run / 6250W max generator that has a 120/240 20A
| 4 prong twist lock style receptacle Nema style L14-20R.
|
| Is this 4 prong receptacle 3 phase power? I purchased a 6-50 3 prong
| receptacle, and L14-20 plug hoping to make some sort of adapter cable
| so I could use my welder with the generator.

Not three phase. Two 110 lines (between them 220V,) a neutral, and a
ground.
L14-20 is a 125/250V 20A 3 pole (two hot legs and a neutral) 4 wire
grounding outlet, so check your breaker to see what the working rating is.
220V*20A is 4400 watts, so I think you'll be okay, just don't keep the duty
cycle high or you could overheat your generator.
Visit an RV shop to see if they have adapters right out of the box, or
they might be able to put together a pigtail for you. You do want to keep
the ground and neutral wired properly on through to the welder, since it's a
safety thing. The adapter or pigtail will do that.


| Is this possible with what I have? Can I just pull single phase 220
| power from the X and Y out of the 4 prong plug (leaving the W
| disconnected)? If not, is there a generator that has a 220V single
| phase receptacle on it?
|
| Thanks.
|

Thanks for the quick response. I am pretty familiar with electrical
wiring, but this generator is a loaner and I have never used this type
of receptacle before. And yes, I believe it was purchased from Home
Depot!

The 4 prong plug is labeled X, Y, W, and G. So using my volt meter, I
expect to measure 220V between the X and Y, and 110V between X and G or
Y and G. (I'll do this in the morning)

My 3 prong receptacle is labeled X, Y, and G. So If everything
measured properly, I should be able to just hook up my power wire to X,
Y, and G on both sides. Then plug one end into the generator, the
other into my welder and make sure I keep the current low. Though
using the published numbers, my welder takes 230V @ 20A which equals
4600W. The generator says it is capable of 5000W continuous and 6250W
peak. But I won't be pushing the welder at full power, maybe half
power.


Ignoramus19023 wrote:
On 5 Aug 2005 21:58:31 -0700, Terry wrote:
I have a lincoln Mig welder requiring 230V 20A single phase power. I
have a welding job to do where there is no power available. It has the
Nema 6-50P 3 prong style plug.

I have a coleman 5000W run / 6250W max generator that has a 120/240 20A
4 prong twist lock style receptacle Nema style L14-20R.

Is this 4 prong receptacle 3 phase power?

Not likely. It is probably two hots, neutral and ground. 14-20R is for
single phase. If this is the kind of coleman that's sold at home
depot, it is very unlikely to provide 3 phase.

I purchased a 6-50 3 prong receptacle, and L14-20 plug hoping to
make some sort of adapter cable so I could use my welder with the
generator.

Is this possible with what I have? Can I just pull single phase 220
power from the X and Y out of the 4 prong plug (leaving the W
disconnected)? If not, is there a generator that has a 220V single
phase receptacle on it?

What I would do in your situation is I would buy 12 gauge power cable,
a 14-20 plug (which you seem to have already), properly connect the
wire to the plug and then directly to your welder.

Be careful, as you apparently do not quite see all issues involved. A
mistake can get you killed very easily. For example, if you are
welding an object that has contact with ground, contact one hot leg to
the object by mistake, and another hot leg to the frame of the
generator,

Not quite sure how I would connect one hot leg to the object I am
welding and another hot leg to the frame of the generator by mistake.
Do you mean if I wire the adapter cable incorrectly so for example a
hot wire is going to the ground of the welder, and then I clamp my
ground cable (which could potentially be hot) to the object I am
welding?

I'm hoping that if I just wire the cable correctly as mentioned above,
then I should be able to use the welder as I normally do. Though if I
am overlooking something I need to be careful about, please explain
again.


you will get killed if you touch both objects or anything
directly connected to it (for example if you directly connect your
welder to the object). Make sure that the voltage is 220V where it
should be and 0 where it should not. If you have any doubts or do not
have a voltmeter, do not undertake this project or ask someone's
assistance.

Your welder seems to need max power somewhat beyond the power range of
these crap generators, which are overrated to begin with. So, operate
well within power limits allowed by your genset.

i

Thanks.

The 6-50 plug has two hots and a ground. So I get 110 between either
of the hots and ground, and 220 between the two hots.

I haven't measured what the L14-20 conector puts out yet, but it should
be pretty much the same, but I have this extra neutral wire. Not quite
sure where to hook this up. I don't know if it would be a good idea to
leave it unconnected. If there is no power comming on the neutral line
(which their shouldn't be right?) I could connect it directly to
ground. Any comments on this?

Thanks.

I'm wiring up the pigtail right now and just wondering if anyone has
any comments on how to hook up the neutral wire. It does say on the
generator that the neutral is floating. As I mentioned before, the
only place I can possibly think of is connecting it to ground.

I just want to make sure I do it right.

Thanks.

"Terry" wrote in message
oups.com...
| I'm wiring up the pigtail right now and just wondering if anyone has
| any comments on how to hook up the neutral wire. It does say on the
| generator that the neutral is floating. As I mentioned before, the
| only place I can possibly think of is connecting it to ground.
|
| I just want to make sure I do it right.
|
| Thanks.

Inside the circuit breaker panel of your home you will find the white
neutral and the green ground wires all terminating at the same point. On
the face of it, it doesn't make sense, but this is the thinking: The old
style three wire 220V circuits had no ground, just a neutral. That means if
you lose your neutral, you are at risk of a painful nibbling. If you lose
your neutral on a four wire circuit, the appliance body is still grounded
(three wire appliances are not) so you are still protected, and if such a
failure happens to be a short, the ground wire will route the current back
to the box where the breaker will pop, reducing your hazard drastically.
Now, I will admit I'm not exactly sure how to wire up the neutral and
grounds on a welder like yours. If the neutral "floats" then that means it
isn't tied to ground inside the generator, it comes right off of the
windings. I'd consult both user manuals for both appliances and go from
there, but there is a risk if your welding project's ground and the welder
case grounds get together, an unwelcome ground current will come to be, so
I'm inclined to think that the ground is less important than the neutral.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here!
I do know that when your generator is used to provide power to your
home, the neutral and ground come together in the breaker panel, which is
important as there must always be just _one_ point where they come
together, and the breaker panel is that place. To have them come together
elsewhere sets up unwanted ground leg currents, which are evil, and devices
such as GFI's are designed to interrupt.

Thanks for all the help. I ended up wiring the neutral wire to ground
and all worked well. I was able to do the whole job without having any
issues.

Thanks again.