In spite of all my calculations the Kohler nipple for the hand held
shower elbow
does not stick out far enough. Kohler specifies 9/16", and it wound up
to
be 3/8". The current nipple is 3", and the next size is 3 1/2" which
is way too
long. I think the reason is the cultured marble guy was a
a bit too generous with the mastic goop, as I did very careful
measurements
and shimmed it perfectly for the maximum thickness the marble plus
mastic
was supposed to be. Be that as it may, the question now is what to do
about it.

Here are the options I know of so far:

1. The flanged elbow is mounted to a 1"x4" cross piece with screws
that I can
get to through the hole in the marble. I could break through the wall
from the other
side to allow sliding a thicker shim behind the elbow. Other than the
work of
breaking and repairing plaster, the only downside is that the nipple
would assume
a slight downward tilt.

2. Make up a nipple with two male adapters and a short length of 1/2"
hard copper
tubing. I've watched the plumbers do the soldering, but never done it
myself. Looks easy.
Downside is possibly breaking the solder joint while tightening. I've
no idea how
strong these soldered joints are in twisting.

Which options is best? Anything I've missed?

TIA

Ed

"Jag Man" wrote in message

Which options is best? Anything I've missed?


You go down to the maintenance department at work and tell the guys you need
a 3 1/4" (or whatever) nipple in brass. For the price of a coffee or two
they can make whatever you need.

Go to the plumbing department of the hardware store and buy a coupling and
two smaller nipples to get the combination you need..

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:k7_%d.17057$qN3.2421@trndny01...


You go down to the maintenance department at work and tell the guys
you need
a 3 1/4" (or whatever) nipple in brass. For the price of a coffee
or two
they can make whatever you need.

Go to the plumbing department of the hardware store and buy a
coupling and
two smaller nipples to get the combination you need..



Thanks, Edwin. Being a machine shop student in highschool and working
my way
through college in tool shops, I liked your first idea! The thought of
throwing
a 4" nipple in a lathe, parting off a bit, and "single-pointing" a NPT
with a bit
ground to the proper angle sounds like fun. Unfortunately, I don't
have access
to the equipment, and I imagine a machine shop would charge me $50,
if I could
even find one that would bother. Apparently, nipples this size are too
short for
using the normal thread cutters.

Maybe I misunderstand your second suggestion, wouldn't it be
impossible to
get something as short ad 3 3/16" with normal 1/2" pipe fittings? Or,
are you
talking about the second idea I mentioned, i.e., use the short section
of
hard thin wall copper tubing and sweat a male adapter to NPT at each
end?

Ed

Jag Man wrote:
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:k7_%d.17057$qN3.2421@trndny01...



You go down to the maintenance department at work and tell the guys
you need a 3 1/4" (or whatever) nipple in brass. For the price
of a coffee or two they can make whatever you need.

Go to the plumbing department of the hardware store and buy a
coupling and two smaller nipples to get the combination you need..


Thanks, Edwin. Being a machine shop student in highschool and working
my way through college in tool shops, I liked your first idea! The
thought of throwing a 4" nipple in a lathe, parting off a bit, and
"single-pointing" a NPT with a bit ground to the proper angle sounds
like fun. Unfortunately, I don't have access to the equipment, and I
imagine a machine shop would charge me $50, if I could even find one
that would bother. Apparently, nipples this size are too short for
using the normal thread cutters.

Maybe I misunderstand your second suggestion, wouldn't it be
impossible to get something as short ad 3 3/16" with normal 1/2" pipe
fittings? Or, are you talking about the second idea I mentioned,
i.e., use the short section of hard thin wall copper tubing and sweat
a male adapter to NPT at each end?

Ed



Why not cut it with a hacksaw, and rethread it (by hand) with a 1/2"
pipe die? You will still have some of the original threads left to help
start the die straight, and brass is easy to cut.

It seems like you are looking for something difficult.

Best regards,
Bob

Jag Man wrote:
In spite of all my calculations the Kohler nipple for the hand held
shower elbow
does not stick out far enough. Kohler specifies 9/16", and it wound up
to
be 3/8". The current nipple is 3", and the next size is 3 1/2" which
is way too
long. I think the reason is the cultured marble guy was a
a bit too generous with the mastic goop, as I did very careful
measurements
and shimmed it perfectly for the maximum thickness the marble plus
mastic
was supposed to be. Be that as it may, the question now is what to do
about it.

Here are the options I know of so far:

1. The flanged elbow is mounted to a 1"x4" cross piece with screws
that I can
get to through the hole in the marble. I could break through the wall
from the other
side to allow sliding a thicker shim behind the elbow. Other than the
work of
breaking and repairing plaster, the only downside is that the nipple
would assume
a slight downward tilt.

2. Make up a nipple with two male adapters and a short length of 1/2"
hard copper
tubing. I've watched the plumbers do the soldering, but never done it
myself. Looks easy.
Downside is possibly breaking the solder joint while tightening. I've
no idea how
strong these soldered joints are in twisting.

Which options is best? Anything I've missed?

TIA

Ed


If you are in Red Sox Nation I'd be happy to loan you the use of my 1/2"
NPT die and die stock so you could shorten a standard nipple and
rethread it.

You sound like a perfectionist and there's nothing wrong with that if
feel good doing things "just right".

Email me if I can help.

Jeff



--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

Home Depot (and presumably most other places, though I haven't tried) will
cut and thread iron pipe for free. Presumably they would do the same for a
brass nipple.

Or is there something that is going clean over my head?

"toller" wrote in message
...
Home Depot (and presumably most other places, though I haven't tried) will
cut and thread iron pipe for free. Presumably they would do the same for
a brass nipple.

Or is there something that is going clean over my head?

Some pipe threaders will not allow a short length to be held in the jaws and
threaded. There are ways of doing it, but I have no idea of HD will have
the capability. No harm in asking though.

Well, I have been known to find complex "solutions" for simple
problems.
But in this case all I wanted to do was get that fancy elbow on there.

Actually, I am guilty of believing them when both the local Ace HW
store and
a first rate plumbing supply house said they couldn't rethread
anything that short.
I now gather that this is simply because they would not stoop so low
as to
use a pipe die and do it manually. Guess I can temporarily attach it
to a
longer length with a coupling in order to hold it for the rethreading.

Thanks for opening my mind!

Ed


"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

Why not cut it with a hacksaw, and rethread it (by hand) with a 1/2"
pipe die? You will still have some of the original threads left to
help
start the die straight, and brass is easy to cut.

It seems like you are looking for something difficult.

Best regards,
Bob

Thanks, Jeff. Unfortunatly, I am in Angles territory, so can't very
well
drop by and pick up the tools! But now that I'm on the right path, I'm
sure
I can borrow, rent, or buy what's needed.

Ed

If you are in Red Sox Nation I'd be happy to loan you the use of my
1/2"
NPT die and die stock so you could shorten a standard nipple and
rethread it.

You sound like a perfectionist and there's nothing wrong with that
if
feel good doing things "just right".

Email me if I can help.

Jeff

In article , "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

"toller" wrote in message
...
Home Depot (and presumably most other places, though I haven't tried) will
cut and thread iron pipe for free. Presumably they would do the same for
a brass nipple.

Or is there something that is going clean over my head?

Some pipe threaders will not allow a short length to be held in the jaws and
threaded. There are ways of doing it, but I have no idea of HD will have
the capability. No harm in asking though.

He could buy a longer piece (e.g. 12") and have it threaded for, say, 5 inches
at one end, then cut off what he needs.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

"toller" wrote in message
...

Home Depot (and presumably most other places, though I haven't tried) will
cut and thread iron pipe for free. Presumably they would do the same for
a brass nipple.

Or is there something that is going clean over my head?

Some pipe threaders will not allow a short length to be held in the jaws and
threaded. There are ways of doing it, but I have no idea of HD will have
the capability. No harm in asking though.


He could buy a longer piece (e.g. 12") and have it threaded for, say, 5 inches
at one end, then cut off what he needs.



IIRC, he needs it threaded at both ends.

Bob

In article , zxcvbob wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Edwin
Pawlowski" wrote:

"toller" wrote in message
...

Home Depot (and presumably most other places, though I haven't tried) will
cut and thread iron pipe for free. Presumably they would do the same for
a brass nipple.

Or is there something that is going clean over my head?

Some pipe threaders will not allow a short length to be held in the jaws and
threaded. There are ways of doing it, but I have no idea of HD will have
the capability. No harm in asking though.


He could buy a longer piece (e.g. 12") and have it threaded for, say, 5
inches
at one end, then cut off what he needs.



IIRC, he needs it threaded at both ends.

And your point would be....?

I believe he only needed about three inches, right? So thread *five* inches,
and cut off the three-and-whatever that's needed. No harm done if it's
threaded all the way, is there?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , zxcvbob
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article ,
"Edwin
Pawlowski" wrote:

"toller" wrote in message
...

Home Depot (and presumably most other places, though I haven't
tried) will
cut and thread iron pipe for free. Presumably they would do the
same for
a brass nipple.

Or is there something that is going clean over my head?

Some pipe threaders will not allow a short length to be held in
the jaws and
threaded. There are ways of doing it, but I have no idea of HD
will have
the capability. No harm in asking though.


He could buy a longer piece (e.g. 12") and have it threaded for,
say, 5
inches
at one end, then cut off what he needs.



IIRC, he needs it threaded at both ends.

And your point would be....?

I believe he only needed about three inches, right? So thread *five*
inches,
and cut off the three-and-whatever that's needed. No harm done if
it's
threaded all the way, is there?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his
butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Yes. If he needs it threaded at both ends the threads turn different
directions...or does it?...hmm, damn, now I have to go looking in my
junk pile for a pipe threaded both ends.

Harry K

Harry K wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , zxcvbob
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article ,
"Edwin
Pawlowski" wrote:

"toller" wrote in message
...

Home Depot (and presumably most other places, though I haven't
tried) will
cut and thread iron pipe for free. Presumably they would do
the
same for
a brass nipple.

Or is there something that is going clean over my head?

Some pipe threaders will not allow a short length to be held in
the jaws and
threaded. There are ways of doing it, but I have no idea of HD
will have
the capability. No harm in asking though.


He could buy a longer piece (e.g. 12") and have it threaded for,
say, 5
inches
at one end, then cut off what he needs.



IIRC, he needs it threaded at both ends.

And your point would be....?

I believe he only needed about three inches, right? So thread
*five*
inches,
and cut off the three-and-whatever that's needed. No harm done if
it's
threaded all the way, is there?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his
butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Yes. If he needs it threaded at both ends the threads turn different
directions...or does it?...hmm, damn, now I have to go looking in my
junk pile for a pipe threaded both ends.

Harry K

In addition to that (if true) IPS threads are 'tapered' so you can't
just thread a length and cut it off.

It's too early and not enough plasma.

Harry K

Harry K wrote:
....
Yes. If he needs it threaded at both ends the threads turn different
directions...or does it?...hmm, damn, now I have to go looking in my
junk pile for a pipe threaded both ends.

If that were true, you'd have one r-h and one l-h thread...somewhat
inconvenient at best...

The taper would be a possible problem though as it would be tougher to
get a leak-tight connection.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , zxcvbob wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

In article , "Edwin

Pawlowski" wrote:

"toller" wrote in message
...


Home Depot (and presumably most other places, though I haven't tried) will
cut and thread iron pipe for free. Presumably they would do the same for
a brass nipple.

Or is there something that is going clean over my head?

Some pipe threaders will not allow a short length to be held in the jaws and
threaded. There are ways of doing it, but I have no idea of HD will have
the capability. No harm in asking though.


He could buy a longer piece (e.g. 12") and have it threaded for, say, 5

inches

at one end, then cut off what he needs.



IIRC, he needs it threaded at both ends.


And your point would be....?

I believe he only needed about three inches, right? So thread *five* inches,
and cut off the three-and-whatever that's needed. No harm done if it's
threaded all the way, is there?



Tapered threads.

Bob

I've asked around, although not at HD, but seems that the HW stores
and
plumbing supply houses only offer threader machine service, and they
won't
work on short nipples.

I intend to try to do it with a manual die and handle today, either
rented or
purchased. I'll just buy a 3 1/2" brass nipple, cut 1/4" off with a
hacksaw,
and spin the die down 1/4". I'll report back on progress.

Ed


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
om...

"toller" wrote in message
...
Home Depot (and presumably most other places, though I haven't
tried) will
cut and thread iron pipe for free. Presumably they would do the
same for
a brass nipple.

Or is there something that is going clean over my head?

Some pipe threaders will not allow a short length to be held in the
jaws and
threaded. There are ways of doing it, but I have no idea of HD will
have
the capability. No harm in asking though.

In article , wrote:
Harry K wrote:
....
Yes. If he needs it threaded at both ends the threads turn different
directions...or does it?...hmm, damn, now I have to go looking in my
junk pile for a pipe threaded both ends.

If that were true, you'd have one r-h and one l-h thread...somewhat
inconvenient at best...

The taper would be a possible problem though as it would be tougher to
get a leak-tight connection.

Not an issue for a shower nipple, though, as it won't ever be subjected to any
kind of significant pressure.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article .com, "Harry K" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , zxcvbob
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article ,
"Edwin
Pawlowski" wrote:

"toller" wrote in message
...

Home Depot (and presumably most other places, though I haven't
tried) will
cut and thread iron pipe for free. Presumably they would do the
same for
a brass nipple.

Or is there something that is going clean over my head?

Some pipe threaders will not allow a short length to be held in
the jaws and
threaded. There are ways of doing it, but I have no idea of HD
will have
the capability. No harm in asking though.


He could buy a longer piece (e.g. 12") and have it threaded for,
say, 5
inches
at one end, then cut off what he needs.



IIRC, he needs it threaded at both ends.

And your point would be....?

I believe he only needed about three inches, right? So thread *five*
inches,
and cut off the three-and-whatever that's needed. No harm done if
it's
threaded all the way, is there?

Yes. If he needs it threaded at both ends the threads turn different
directions...or does it?...hmm, damn, now I have to go looking in my
junk pile for a pipe threaded both ends.

Try again.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article , zxcvbob wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

I believe he only needed about three inches, right? So thread *five* inches,
and cut off the three-and-whatever that's needed. No harm done if it's
threaded all the way, is there?

Tapered threads.

Won't matter. It's a shower nipple, so one end of it will always be open, and
there won't ever be any significant pressure on the joint.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , zxcvbob wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

I believe he only needed about three inches, right? So thread *five* inches,
and cut off the three-and-whatever that's needed. No harm done if it's
threaded all the way, is there?

Tapered threads.


Won't matter. It's a shower nipple, so one end of it will always be open, and
there won't ever be any significant pressure on the joint.



Depends on how restrictive the flow control in the shower head is. I
know I wouldn't want it dripping behind my walls.

Bob

Well, I did it. The nipple has been cut to length, rethreaded, and
used to install the
elbow on the shower wall. However, I won't say it was easy. The main
problem is the hand-held dies have a guide collar that the pipe enters
through
before reaching the die proper. This means there is only a little over
an inch
sticking out to grip, and most of that is threaded. In order to
get a good grip w/o damaging the threads I fitted a brass cap I
happened to have.
Initially I grabbed it in a vise, but I'm afraid my vise and workbench
were no match for the force it takes to cut the threads as the length
of
engagement grows. Finally gripped it with a pipe wrench. Of course
this tightens the cap far beyond normal, so getting it off after the
threads were
cut was tough too. Went through this several times before getting
enough
good threads for a good fit at the shower wall. Glad I'm not a
plumber!

thanks for all the help.

Ed



"Jag Man" wrote in message
. ..

I intend to try to do it with a manual die and handle today, either
rented or
purchased. I'll just buy a 3 1/2" brass nipple, cut 1/4" off with a
hacksaw,
and spin the die down 1/4". I'll report back on progress.

Ed

Won't matter. It's a shower nipple, so one end of it will always
be open, and
there won't ever be any significant pressure on the joint.



Depends on how restrictive the flow control in the shower head is.
I
know I wouldn't want it dripping behind my walls.

Bob

Right. There will always be some pressure drop across any kind of flow
restriction, and a spray nozzle could be
considerable, I would think, especially low flow showere heads.
Also, people will often put a valved branch fitting on a shower
gooseneck for a hand-held shower hose and wand. If later someone
attaches
a wand that itself has a shut-off valve, full line pressure can be
on all the joints in there. I'm familiar with this problem from
personal
experience, including some ruined plaster.

Ed

That is called a nipple chuck. You are an the right track.


Stretch

In article ,
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , zxcvbob
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

I believe he only needed about three inches, right? So thread *five* inches,
and cut off the three-and-whatever that's needed. No harm done if it's
threaded all the way, is there?

Tapered threads.

Won't matter. It's a shower nipple, so one end of it will always be open, and
there won't ever be any significant pressure on the joint.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

A flow restrictor shower head can cause enough pressure in a
showerhead elbow to cause a poor joint to leak. I had this at my own
house at one time.
--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
Harry K wrote:
...
Yes. If he needs it threaded at both ends the threads turn different
directions...or does it?...hmm, damn, now I have to go looking in my
junk pile for a pipe threaded both ends.

If that were true, you'd have one r-h and one l-h thread...somewhat
inconvenient at best...

The taper would be a possible problem though as it would be tougher to
get a leak-tight connection.

Not a problem most taper thread dies will cut "Running" threads on the pipe
if you cut a longer threaded section, and then on to the very end of the
threads it will be tapered ( taper length on 3/4" pipe is about 5/8" ) So
just tell them to stop the cutting where you would have ended for the
distance between the threads on the 3.25" nipple i.e. about 2"

William...