Hello there,
We have a forced hot air variable speed furnace. We just had an HVAC company
put 3 heating vents and 2 returns in our finished basement. The basement is
about 1000 sq.ft. We have been told that our furnace should be sufficient to
heat the basement. However, we have a very cool basement. The heat ducts are
on the exterior wall at the floor and the returns are on the same wall but
near the ceiling. We thought the returns should be on the floor since cold
air sinks. Our HVAC guys argue that the returns are on the top of the wall
to create airflow/air pressure. Are they correct? We no longer trust their
judgement since our basement is so cold, but they are willing to come back
and make adjustments. Where should the returns be? Also, would it help to
cut additional heat vents out of the main duct on the ceiling? What do you
suggest they do? Thanks so much for your time.

Jody wrote:
Hello there,
We have a forced hot air variable speed furnace. We just had an HVAC
company put 3 heating vents and 2 returns in our finished basement.
The basement is about 1000 sq.ft. We have been told that our furnace
should be sufficient to heat the basement. However, we have a very
cool basement. The heat ducts are on the exterior wall at the floor
and the returns are on the same wall but near the ceiling. We thought
the returns should be on the floor since cold air sinks. Our HVAC
guys argue that the returns are on the top of the wall to create
airflow/air pressure. Are they correct? We no longer trust their
judgement since our basement is so cold, but they are willing to come
back and make adjustments. Where should the returns be? Also, would
it help to cut additional heat vents out of the main duct on the
ceiling? What do you suggest they do? Thanks so much for your time.

I am no pro here, but I would think the returns would be more effective
on the opposite side of the room away from the outside and close to the
floor.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Im not a Hvac pro but have done basement remodeling. I dont think it
is worth an argument over placement , you will have circulation. but you
do need them to add more supplys to just get in more heat, and they
agreed to do that.

A thing I have found is on many remodels, basements are cool if
underground completely, on my last one I had to remove and insulate all
the ducts as even with the vents off the basement needed a heater in
summer just from the cold air passing through to the upstairs, I hope
you considered this. Many basements just need a Dehumidifier and the
return open in summer as humidity is the issue when it is warm out.

Hello there,
We have a forced hot air variable speed furnace. We just had an HVAC company
put 3 heating vents and 2 returns in our finished basement. The basement is
about 1000 sq.ft. We have been told that our furnace should be sufficient to
heat the basement. However, we have a very cool basement. The heat ducts are
on the exterior wall at the floor and the returns are on the same wall but
near the ceiling. We thought the returns should be on the floor since cold
air sinks. Our HVAC guys argue that the returns are on the top of the wall
to create airflow/air pressure. Are they correct? We no longer trust their
judgement since our basement is so cold, but they are willing to come back
and make adjustments. Where should the returns be? Also, would it help to
cut additional heat vents out of the main duct on the ceiling? What do you
suggest they do? Thanks so much for your time.

I think they did it backwards, myself. If the returns are above the
supply, then the warm air can just come out of the vents, up the wall,
and through the returns, never touching the rest of the basement.
That only works if they do *ALL* the walls, so that the
basement is in an envelope of warm air. If they can swap the
returns and supply, that's one way to fix it.

Hi Jody, hope you are having a nice day

On 08-Mar-05 At About 06:29:56, Jody wrote to All
Subject: Cold air return in basement

J From: "Jody"

J Thanks Joseph, Unfortunately we cannot spend any more money on this
J basement and having a new HVAC company come in will mean a lot more
J money. We have to have the guys who did the work fix the work. They
J are willing to make the adjustments at no charge. I cannot be
J ripping drywall down that was just put up and finished. I guess I'll
J ad some vents off the ceiling on the main duct and have them move
J the returns to the floor. Thanks for your responses and time.

The supply vents on a heating system should be near the floor due to the
fact heat rises. if you put them in the ceiling you will usually have cold
feet where is the thermostat located for this system?

-= HvacTech2 =-


... By the time I have money to burn, my fire will be out.

___ TagDude 0.92á+[DM]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++
spam protection measure, Please remove the 33 to send e-mail

Okay, does anyone know how to fix the problem?

"Goedjn" wrote in message
...

Hello there,
We have a forced hot air variable speed furnace. We just had an HVAC
company
put 3 heating vents and 2 returns in our finished basement. The basement
is
about 1000 sq.ft. We have been told that our furnace should be sufficient
to
heat the basement. However, we have a very cool basement. The heat ducts
are
on the exterior wall at the floor and the returns are on the same wall but
near the ceiling. We thought the returns should be on the floor since cold
air sinks. Our HVAC guys argue that the returns are on the top of the wall
to create airflow/air pressure. Are they correct? We no longer trust their
judgement since our basement is so cold, but they are willing to come back
and make adjustments. Where should the returns be? Also, would it help to
cut additional heat vents out of the main duct on the ceiling? What do you
suggest they do? Thanks so much for your time.

I think they did it backwards, myself. If the returns are above the
supply, then the warm air can just come out of the vents, up the wall,
and through the returns, never touching the rest of the basement.
That only works if they do *ALL* the walls, so that the
basement is in an envelope of warm air. If they can swap the
returns and supply, that's one way to fix it.

Jody wrote:
Okay, does anyone know how to fix the problem?

To fix the problem takes a professional with some experience who knows
what they are doing and does the work (math) to measure what you really
need. Clearly the one you had did not.

My only suggestion is to ask around to find a good professional as
recommended by people who have used them.

They should do a manual J and manual D computation. Somehow I doubt if
the one you had bothered, or maybe does not even know what they are.


"Goedjn" wrote in message
...

Hello there,
We have a forced hot air variable speed furnace. We just had an HVAC
company
put 3 heating vents and 2 returns in our finished basement. The
basement is
about 1000 sq.ft. We have been told that our furnace should be
sufficient to
heat the basement. However, we have a very cool basement. The heat
ducts are
on the exterior wall at the floor and the returns are on the same
wall but near the ceiling. We thought the returns should be on the
floor since cold air sinks. Our HVAC guys argue that the returns
are on the top of the wall to create airflow/air pressure. Are they
correct? We no longer trust their judgement since our basement is
so cold, but they are willing to come back and make adjustments.
Where should the returns be? Also, would it help to cut additional
heat vents out of the main duct on the ceiling? What do you suggest
they do? Thanks so much for your time.

I think they did it backwards, myself. If the returns are above the
supply, then the warm air can just come out of the vents, up the
wall, and through the returns, never touching the rest of the
basement. That only works if they do *ALL* the walls, so that the
basement is in an envelope of warm air. If they can swap the
returns and supply, that's one way to fix it.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Hi Jody, hope you are having a nice day

On 08-Mar-05 At About 10:06:12, Jody wrote to All
Subject: Cold air return in basement

J From: "Jody"

J The thermostat is on the first floor, not on a separate thermostat. I
J can't get any more heat vents on the floor as the basement is not
J finished. All I can do is cut additional ones in the ceiling to add
J more heat. The other thing I could do is move the returns to the
J floor. You are right about the cold feet. That is why I had the
J HVAC guys come in and put ducts from the main vent on ceiling
J down to the bottom of the walls. I assumed he would know how many
J would be suffient and on which walls to put them. That is why I
J paid for a professional to do it, to avoid having a cold basement.
J It really sucks when you pay a professional to do something
J and they screw it all up and then think they are still right.

This could also be part of the problem. if it is on the upstairs thermostat
you may need to have the system balanced or maybe even a zoning system.



-= HvacTech2 =-


... URA Redneck if you keep your thermostat on 85 in the winter.

___ TagDude 0.92á+[DM]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++
spam protection measure, Please remove the 33 to send e-mail

Thanks Joseph,
Unfortunately we cannot spend any more money on this basement and having a
new HVAC company come in will mean a lot more money. We have to have the
guys who did the work fix the work. They are willing to make the
adjustments at no charge. I cannot be ripping drywall down that was just
put up and finished. I guess I'll ad some vents off the ceiling on the main
duct and have them move the returns to the floor. Thanks for your responses
and time.

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Jody wrote:
Okay, does anyone know how to fix the problem?

To fix the problem takes a professional with some experience who knows
what they are doing and does the work (math) to measure what you really
need. Clearly the one you had did not.

My only suggestion is to ask around to find a good professional as
recommended by people who have used them.

They should do a manual J and manual D computation. Somehow I doubt if
the one you had bothered, or maybe does not even know what they are.


"Goedjn" wrote in message
...

Hello there,
We have a forced hot air variable speed furnace. We just had an HVAC
company
put 3 heating vents and 2 returns in our finished basement. The
basement is
about 1000 sq.ft. We have been told that our furnace should be
sufficient to
heat the basement. However, we have a very cool basement. The heat
ducts are
on the exterior wall at the floor and the returns are on the same
wall but near the ceiling. We thought the returns should be on the
floor since cold air sinks. Our HVAC guys argue that the returns
are on the top of the wall to create airflow/air pressure. Are they
correct? We no longer trust their judgement since our basement is
so cold, but they are willing to come back and make adjustments.
Where should the returns be? Also, would it help to cut additional
heat vents out of the main duct on the ceiling? What do you suggest
they do? Thanks so much for your time.

I think they did it backwards, myself. If the returns are above the
supply, then the warm air can just come out of the vents, up the
wall, and through the returns, never touching the rest of the
basement. That only works if they do *ALL* the walls, so that the
basement is in an envelope of warm air. If they can swap the
returns and supply, that's one way to fix it.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Jody" wrote in message
...
Hello there,
We have a forced hot air variable speed furnace. We just had an HVAC
company
put 3 heating vents and 2 returns in our finished basement. The basement
is
about 1000 sq.ft. We have been told that our furnace should be sufficient
to
heat the basement. However, we have a very cool basement. The heat ducts
are
on the exterior wall at the floor and the returns are on the same wall but
near the ceiling. We thought the returns should be on the floor since cold
air sinks. Our HVAC guys argue that the returns are on the top of the wall
to create airflow/air pressure. Are they correct? We no longer trust their
judgement since our basement is so cold, but they are willing to come back
and make adjustments. Where should the returns be? Also, would it help to
cut additional heat vents out of the main duct on the ceiling? What do you
suggest they do? Thanks so much for your time.



Have you tried to speak to the owner of the company? Maybe you didn't get to
talk to the right person and the owner doesn't even know he has an idiot
working for him. I Googled around a little and it was easy to find several
plans for ductwork and even though some of them had both floor and ceiling
supply ducts, they ALL had returns at or near the floor. Some also had
returns up high for air conditioning.

Kathy,
Yep, family run business. I had the owner himself in. I agree with you and
I told him that but he just insists he is right and we are wrong. Since
they are "the expert" he is going to believe me. I just wish I could prove
it to them somehow. I need to have them fix it so I have to be careful of
what I do and say. Thanks for looking into it for me. Everything I could
find pretty much recommended the same thing. Although other HVAC guys have
said the returns would be fine at the ceiling if I had enough heat coming
out of the vents.
"Kathy" wrote in message
...

"Jody" wrote in message
...
Hello there,
We have a forced hot air variable speed furnace. We just had an HVAC
company
put 3 heating vents and 2 returns in our finished basement. The basement
is
about 1000 sq.ft. We have been told that our furnace should be sufficient
to
heat the basement. However, we have a very cool basement. The heat ducts
are
on the exterior wall at the floor and the returns are on the same wall
but
near the ceiling. We thought the returns should be on the floor since
cold
air sinks. Our HVAC guys argue that the returns are on the top of the
wall
to create airflow/air pressure. Are they correct? We no longer trust
their
judgement since our basement is so cold, but they are willing to come
back
and make adjustments. Where should the returns be? Also, would it help to
cut additional heat vents out of the main duct on the ceiling? What do
you
suggest they do? Thanks so much for your time.



Have you tried to speak to the owner of the company? Maybe you didn't get
to
talk to the right person and the owner doesn't even know he has an idiot
working for him. I Googled around a little and it was easy to find several
plans for ductwork and even though some of them had both floor and ceiling
supply ducts, they ALL had returns at or near the floor. Some also had
returns up high for air conditioning.

Jody wrote:
Kathy,
Yep, family run business. I had the owner himself in. I agree with
you and I told him that but he just insists he is right and we are
wrong. Since they are "the expert" he is going to believe me. I
just wish I could prove it to them somehow.

All you need do is bring him down there and ask him why HIS system is
not working. If it were working you would be warm and comfortable.

I need to have them fix
it so I have to be careful of what I do and say.

No you don't. You are right He is wrong. If you fails to follow up
quickly, it is time to take the issue to his licensing board.

Thanks for looking
into it for me. Everything I could find pretty much recommended the
same thing. Although other HVAC guys have said the returns would be
fine at the ceiling if I had enough heat coming out of the vents.
"Kathy" wrote in message
...

"Jody" wrote in message
...
Hello there,
We have a forced hot air variable speed furnace. We just had an
HVAC company put 3 heating vents and 2 returns in our finished
basement. The basement is about 1000 sq.ft. We have been told that
our furnace should be sufficient to heat the basement. However, we
have a very cool basement. The heat ducts are on the exterior wall
at the floor and the returns are on the same wall but
near the ceiling. We thought the returns should be on the floor
since cold
air sinks. Our HVAC guys argue that the returns are on the top of
the wall
to create airflow/air pressure. Are they correct? We no longer trust
their
judgement since our basement is so cold, but they are willing to
come back
and make adjustments. Where should the returns be? Also, would it
help to cut additional heat vents out of the main duct on the
ceiling? What do you
suggest they do? Thanks so much for your time.



Have you tried to speak to the owner of the company? Maybe you
didn't get to
talk to the right person and the owner doesn't even know he has an
idiot working for him. I Googled around a little and it was easy to
find several plans for ductwork and even though some of them had
both floor and ceiling supply ducts, they ALL had returns at or near
the floor. Some also had returns up high for air conditioning.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

You dont need to do anything but get him to provide more heat-vents.
You are second guessing him and should just let him fix it. It will
work with your returns , you need more supply.

The thermostat is on the first floor, not on a separate thermostat. I can't
get any more heat vents on the floor as the basement is not finished. All I
can do is cut additional ones in the ceiling to add more heat. The other
thing I could do is move the returns to the floor. You are right about the
cold feet. That is why I had the HVAC guys come in and put ducts from the
main vent on ceiling down to the bottom of the walls. I assumed he would
know how many would be suffient and on which walls to put them. That is why
I paid for a professional to do it, to avoid having a cold basement. It
really sucks when you pay a professional to do something and they screw it
all up and then think they are still right.

And, thank you, I am having a nice day

"HvacTech2" wrote in message
...


Hi Jody, hope you are having a nice day

On 08-Mar-05 At About 06:29:56, Jody wrote to All
Subject: Cold air return in basement

J From: "Jody"

J Thanks Joseph, Unfortunately we cannot spend any more money on this
J basement and having a new HVAC company come in will mean a lot more
J money. We have to have the guys who did the work fix the work. They
J are willing to make the adjustments at no charge. I cannot be
J ripping drywall down that was just put up and finished. I guess I'll
J ad some vents off the ceiling on the main duct and have them move
J the returns to the floor. Thanks for your responses and time.

The supply vents on a heating system should be near the floor due to the
fact heat rises. if you put them in the ceiling you will usually have cold
feet where is the thermostat located for this system?

-= HvacTech2 =-


.. By the time I have money to burn, my fire will be out.

___ TagDude 0.92á+[DM]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++
spam protection measure, Please remove the 33 to send e-mail

Zoning system sounds expensive. We really can't afford to sink any more
money into this basement. I don't know much about balancing.

"HvacTech2" wrote in message
...


Hi Jody, hope you are having a nice day

On 08-Mar-05 At About 10:06:12, Jody wrote to All
Subject: Cold air return in basement

J From: "Jody"

J The thermostat is on the first floor, not on a separate thermostat. I
J can't get any more heat vents on the floor as the basement is not
J finished. All I can do is cut additional ones in the ceiling to add
J more heat. The other thing I could do is move the returns to the
J floor. You are right about the cold feet. That is why I had the
J HVAC guys come in and put ducts from the main vent on ceiling
J down to the bottom of the walls. I assumed he would know how many
J would be suffient and on which walls to put them. That is why I
J paid for a professional to do it, to avoid having a cold basement.
J It really sucks when you pay a professional to do something
J and they screw it all up and then think they are still right.

This could also be part of the problem. if it is on the upstairs
thermostat
you may need to have the system balanced or maybe even a zoning system.



-= HvacTech2 =-


.. URA Redneck if you keep your thermostat on 85 in the winter.

___ TagDude 0.92á+[DM]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++
spam protection measure, Please remove the 33 to send e-mail

HvacTech2 wrote:

The supply vents on a heating system should be near the floor due to the
fact heat rises.

The return vents on a heating system should be near the floor on outside
walls because cool air falls and loses less energy to the outdoors. The
supply vents should be near the ceiling on inside walls, keeping warm air
away from cool walls and taking advantage of flow due to warm air bouyancy.

Nick

m Ransley wrote:
You dont need to do anything but get him to provide more heat-vents.
You are second guessing him and should just let him fix it. It will
work with your returns , you need more supply.

I would not assume that more heat vents or moved heat vents or any
specific fix is needed. What is needed is a comfortable basement. How that
is accomplished is the job of the contractor. Telling him how to do his job
is only asking for and deserving and answer later, that "I did what you told
me so my job is done, it is not my fault it did not work"

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

I agree JM, but if it isnt more supplys then what? It has to need more
supplys , it is near 60 and 3 are what they have that were routed to the
floor. I agree dont direct the Pro but more supply is logical, I just
finished my underground basement and kept putting in more supplys till
it equaled the upstairs. I have 3 very large for 600sq, they have 3 for
1000. Their easiest and cheapest rout is more supply.

Hi , hope you are having a nice day

On 08-Mar-05 At About 21:02:00, wrote to All
Subject: Cold air return in basement

n From:

n HvacTech2 wrote:

n The supply vents on a heating system should be near the floor due
n to the fact heat rises.

n The return vents on a heating system should be near the floor on
n outside walls because cool air falls and loses less energy to the
n outdoors. The supply vents should be near the ceiling on inside
n walls, keeping warm air away from cool walls and taking advantage of
n flow due to warm air bouyancy.

n Nick


Wrong. If you put the diffusers near the ceiling you will have cold feet as
the hot air will never make it to the floor. on any forced air system the
diffusers should be near the floor for heat and up high on the wall for
cooling as the cold air falls. some higher end systems will have both and a
damper setup which you can switch every season. but most have them only near
the floor as dual duct systems are expensive.

-= HvacTech2 =-


... "I put hardwood floors on top of wall-to-wall carpet." - s.w.

___ TagDude 0.92á+[DM]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++
spam protection measure, Please remove the 33 to send e-mail

m Ransley wrote:
I agree JM, but if it isnt more supplys then what? It has to need
more supplys , it is near 60 and 3 are what they have that were
routed to the floor.

It's really hard to say from here. The only viable solution may be some
form of zoning or supplemental heat. Maybe the current system is really not
large enough to handle it. Additional returns, larger or more ducts. Just
adding more supplies from the same duct, may just screw up the heat to the
second floor. As I said, I can't see it from here, and frankly, I would
call a pro in since I don't have the experience or training to do it. I
have to admit I have done it a couple of times and it has turned out very
well, but I would guess that was more accident than anything else.

In the end, it may be just more supplies, I know of no reason it could
not be.

I agree dont direct the Pro but more supply is
logical, I just finished my underground basement and kept putting in
more supplys till it equaled the upstairs. I have 3 very large for
600sq, they have 3 for 1000. Their easiest and cheapest rout is more
supply.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

In the end, it may be just more supplies, I know of no reason it could
not be.

If the room is uniformly cooler than desirable, then that's a supply
issue. If the floor and back of the room is noticably cooler than
the ceiling and register-side of the room, then thats a circulation
and insulation issue.

HvacTech2 wrote:

The supply vents on a heating system should be near the floor due
to the fact heat rises.

n The return vents on a heating system should be near the floor on
n outside walls because cool air falls and loses less energy to the
n outdoors. The supply vents should be near the ceiling on inside
n walls, keeping warm air away from cool walls and taking advantage of
n flow due to warm air bouyancy.

Wrong. If you put the diffusers near the ceiling you will have cold feet
as the hot air will never make it to the floor.

Thus exploding the house? :-) Utterly ridiculous...

Nick

hmmm, my head is spinning

wrote in message
...
HvacTech2 wrote:

The supply vents on a heating system should be near the floor due
to the fact heat rises.

n The return vents on a heating system should be near the floor on
n outside walls because cool air falls and loses less energy to the
n outdoors. The supply vents should be near the ceiling on inside
n walls, keeping warm air away from cool walls and taking advantage of
n flow due to warm air bouyancy.

Wrong. If you put the diffusers near the ceiling you will have cold feet
as the hot air will never make it to the floor.

Thus exploding the house? :-) Utterly ridiculous...

Nick