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Shutoff valve before water meter: Whose problem?
The water shutoff valve just before the meter in my basement has begun
to leak. Probably about a gallon a week, judging from the amount in the bucket I put below the valve. Simple enough problem I would likely handle myself, except for shutting the water off at the curb. I've seen them do this with a neighborhood deadbeat (apparently behind on their bill), they use a wrench about 4 feet long which I don't possess. Anyway, before I pay a plumber, it did occur to me that since this is BEFORE the meter, perhaps it's the city water dept's problem. Anyone know? TIA Dan |
#2
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"Dan" wrote in message ... The water shutoff valve just before the meter in my basement has begun to leak. Probably about a gallon a week, judging from the amount in the bucket I put below the valve. Simple enough problem I would likely handle myself, except for shutting the water off at the curb. I've seen them do this with a neighborhood deadbeat (apparently behind on their bill), they use a wrench about 4 feet long which I don't possess. Anyway, before I pay a plumber, it did occur to me that since this is BEFORE the meter, perhaps it's the city water dept's problem. Anyone know? TIA Dan Best way would be to contact the water dept in your area and ask them. B |
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I'd think the city should take care of this since this is in a location
before entering your house. Why not call the city? |
#4
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"Dan" wrote in message ... The water shutoff valve just before the meter in my basement has begun to leak. Probably about a gallon a week, judging from the amount in the bucket I put below the valve. Simple enough problem I would likely handle myself, except for shutting the water off at the curb. I've seen them do this with a neighborhood deadbeat (apparently behind on their bill), they use a wrench about 4 feet long which I don't possess. Anyway, before I pay a plumber, it did occur to me that since this is BEFORE the meter, perhaps it's the city water dept's problem. Anyone know? TIA Dan In most cases, it is still your valve and water line. The city may come out and turn the water off for you and then turn it back on. Of course they will expect you to have a permit for the work also. |
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wrote in message oups.com... I'd think the city should take care of this since this is in a location before entering your house. Why not call the city? He said it is before the meter in his basement. I think it is his problem. |
#6
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Dan wrote:
The water shutoff valve just before the meter in my basement has begun to leak. Probably about a gallon a week, judging from the amount in the bucket I put below the valve. Simple enough problem I would likely handle myself, except for shutting the water off at the curb. I've seen them do this with a neighborhood deadbeat (apparently behind on their bill), they use a wrench about 4 feet long which I don't possess. Anyway, before I pay a plumber, it did occur to me that since this is BEFORE the meter, perhaps it's the city water dept's problem. Anyone know? TIA Dan You may need to check locally as I suspect it is not the same everywhere. In my case the pipe line and all valves etc, from the curb box to the house are my problem. -- Joseph Meehan 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math |
#7
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The water shutoff valve just before the meter in my basement has begun
to leak. Probably about a gallon a week, judging from the amount in the bucket I put below the valve. Simple enough problem I would likely handle myself, except for shutting the water off at the curb. I've seen them do this with a neighborhood deadbeat (apparently behind on their bill), they use a wrench about 4 feet long which I don't possess. Anyway, before I pay a plumber, it did occur to me that since this is BEFORE the meter, perhaps it's the city water dept's problem. Anyone know? TIA Dan ------------ It's pretty universal that the city/county is responsible up to and including the meter at the curb. Anything past the meter is your responsibility. You can get the water meter shutoff wrench at Lowe's/Home Depot for a few bucks. |
#8
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Thanks for the replies. The thing with this setup is the meter & valve
are INSIDE the basement (there is a main shutoff under a cover in the front sidewalk down by the curb). Just the same, I have to think if the METER which is AFTER this valve fails, it would not be my problem. The valve began leaking after I shut the water off a couple times due to going out of town for several weeks in the cold weather. It appears to be leaking at the packing around the valve stem, easy to fix were it not for the WATER being on ;-) I think I'll see if it calcifies & stops leaking after a bit, as it has in the past. Mean time I'll call the city, but wanted to get an idea of how this usually goes befire I do. I've seen short wrenches for the outside valve at hardware stores. I bent one 180 degrees one time trying to shut off the water at my inlaws house in LA, but there the valve was only inches beneath the cover; here it's a good 2-3 feet. I can just imagine what condition the thing is in, having never been shut off for the 40 years my family has owned this house ;-( Dan Abe wrote: The water shutoff valve just before the meter in my basement has begun to leak. Probably about a gallon a week, judging from the amount in the bucket I put below the valve. Simple enough problem I would likely handle myself, except for shutting the water off at the curb. I've seen them do this with a neighborhood deadbeat (apparently behind on their bill), they use a wrench about 4 feet long which I don't possess. Anyway, before I pay a plumber, it did occur to me that since this is BEFORE the meter, perhaps it's the city water dept's problem. Anyone know? TIA Dan ------------ It's pretty universal that the city/county is responsible up to and including the meter at the curb. Anything past the meter is your responsibility. You can get the water meter shutoff wrench at Lowe's/Home Depot for a few bucks. |
#9
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"Dan" wrote in message ... Thanks for the replies. The thing with this setup is the meter & valve are INSIDE the basement (there is a main shutoff under a cover in the front sidewalk down by the curb). Just the same, I have to think if the METER which is AFTER this valve fails, it would not be my problem. The valve began leaking after I shut the water off a couple times due to going out of town for several weeks in the cold weather. It appears to be leaking at the packing around the valve stem, easy to fix were it not for the WATER being on ;-) The meter belongs to the city/town, but the piping belongs to you. Have you tried to gently tighten the packing nut? Sometimes that is all that is needed. |
#10
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"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message ... Dan wrote: The water shutoff valve just before the meter in my basement has begun to leak. Probably about a gallon a week, judging from the amount in the bucket I put below the valve. Simple enough problem I would likely handle myself, except for shutting the water off at the curb. I've seen them do this with a neighborhood deadbeat (apparently behind on their bill), they use a wrench about 4 feet long which I don't possess. Anyway, before I pay a plumber, it did occur to me that since this is BEFORE the meter, perhaps it's the city water dept's problem. Anyone know? TIA Dan You may need to check locally as I suspect it is not the same everywhere. In my case the pipe line and all valves etc, from the curb box to the house are my problem. -- Joseph Meehan 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math Here in our area, anything before the meter is the water depts responsibility. B |
#11
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"Dan" wrote in message ... Thanks for the replies. The thing with this setup is the meter & valve are INSIDE the basement (there is a main shutoff under a cover in the front sidewalk down by the curb). Just the same, I have to think if the METER which is AFTER this valve fails, it would not be my problem. The valve began leaking after I shut the water off a couple times due to going out of town for several weeks in the cold weather. It appears to be leaking at the packing around the valve stem, easy to fix were it not for the WATER being on ;-) I think I'll see if it calcifies & stops leaking after a bit, as it has in the past. Mean time I'll call the city, but wanted to get an idea of how this usually goes befire I do. I've seen short wrenches for the outside valve at hardware stores. I bent one 180 degrees one time trying to shut off the water at my inlaws house in LA, but there the valve was only inches beneath the cover; here it's a good 2-3 feet. I can just imagine what condition the thing is in, having never been shut off for the 40 years my family has owned this house ;-( Dan Abe wrote: The water shutoff valve just before the meter in my basement has begun to leak. Probably about a gallon a week, judging from the amount in the bucket I put below the valve. Simple enough problem I would likely handle myself, except for shutting the water off at the curb. I've seen them do this with a neighborhood deadbeat (apparently behind on their bill), they use a wrench about 4 feet long which I don't possess. Anyway, before I pay a plumber, it did occur to me that since this is BEFORE the meter, perhaps it's the city water dept's problem. Anyone know? TIA Dan ------------ It's pretty universal that the city/county is responsible up to and including the meter at the curb. Anything past the meter is your responsibility. You can get the water meter shutoff wrench at Lowe's/Home Depot for a few bucks. Don't be tempted to shut off the curb water yourself. My shutoff valve also leaked and I replaced it with a ball valve. My plumber refused to shut off the outside water "too many bad tings happen". When the city shut off the water the shaft extension (from ground to the valve underground) broke in half. Result was that they had to tear up the street to get at the valve, install a new shaft extension, fill the hole and re-hot top the street. Plumber made the right decision. MLD |
#12
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Dan wrote: Thanks for the replies. The thing with this setup is the meter & valve are INSIDE the basement (there is a main shutoff under a cover in the front sidewalk down by the curb). Just the same, I have to think if the METER which is AFTER this valve fails, it would not be my problem. The valve began leaking after I shut the water off a couple times due to going out of town for several weeks in the cold weather. It appears to be leaking at the packing around the valve stem, easy to fix were it not for the WATER being on ;-) I think I'll see if it calcifies & stops leaking after a bit, as it has in the past. Mean time I'll call the city, but wanted to get an idea of how this usually goes befire I do. I've seen short wrenches for the outside valve at hardware stores. I bent one 180 degrees one time trying to shut off the water at my inlaws house in LA, but there the valve was only inches beneath the cover; here it's a good 2-3 feet. I can just imagine what condition the thing is in, having never been shut off for the 40 years my family has owned this house ;-( Dan Just because the water has not been shut off at the curb (as far as you know) doesn't mean it's a decrepit valve. They may well have maintained it somewhere along the line. At my curb (Southern California) the shutoff is about a foot below the sidewalk with the meter right there in that box. I just use a crescent wrench and a big screwdriver through the "hang-hole" on the handle to get the torque necessary to turn the horizontally-mounted valve. I really wish I had the proper tool, but I never think to pick one up for the time in the future I'm likely to need it. I'd think something like those old 3-foot-long manual sprinkler control tools might work. Joe |
#13
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Yeah, I don't think I'll attempt it. As I said the one time I did try
it (another house) the wrench bent & the valve didn't budge. I'll try snugging down the nut on the valve stem, then go from there. Dan MLD wrote: Don't be tempted to shut off the curb water yourself. My shutoff valve also leaked and I replaced it with a ball valve. My plumber refused to shut off the outside water "too many bad tings happen". When the city shut off the water the shaft extension (from ground to the valve underground) broke in half. Result was that they had to tear up the street to get at the valve, install a new shaft extension, fill the hole and re-hot top the street. Plumber made the right decision. MLD |
#14
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Good idea.
Dan Edwin Pawlowski wrote: Have you tried to gently tighten the packing nut? Sometimes that is all that is needed. |
#16
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Dan wrote:
Yeah, I don't think I'll attempt it. As I said the one time I did try it (another house) the wrench bent & the valve didn't budge. I'll try snugging down the nut on the valve stem, then go from there. Dan If the valve is installed properly when you close it there is no pressure at the packing nut. You can at this point unscrew the nut and wrap a few strands of packing around the shaft, tighten the nut, open the valve and continue living your life. Dave MLD wrote: Don't be tempted to shut off the curb water yourself. My shutoff valve also leaked and I replaced it with a ball valve. My plumber refused to shut off the outside water "too many bad tings happen". When the city shut off the water the shaft extension (from ground to the valve underground) broke in half. Result was that they had to tear up the street to get at the valve, install a new shaft extension, fill the hole and re-hot top the street. Plumber made the right decision. MLD |
#17
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"Dave Morrison" wrote in message
... If the valve is installed properly when you close it there is no pressure at the packing nut. You can at this point unscrew the nut and wrap a few strands of packing around the shaft, tighten the nut, open the valve and continue living your life. Good point. That means he can probably fix the valve stem leak without having to shut off the water at the curb. |
#18
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Dave Morrison wrote:
Dan wrote: Yeah, I don't think I'll attempt it. As I said the one time I did try it (another house) the wrench bent & the valve didn't budge. I'll try snugging down the nut on the valve stem, then go from there. Dan If the valve is installed properly when you close it there is no pressure at the packing nut. You can at this point unscrew the nut and wrap a few strands of packing around the shaft, tighten the nut, open the valve and continue living your life. Dave Let me toss in a question: There's bound to be an existing packing (which is, of course, worn or deteriorated). There's too much volume under the nut to fill completely with the teflon thread / string, so the idea is to add a few wraps to seal. Would those wraps be added between the existing packing and the nut? Or under the packing? I've tried to purchase replacement packing before, and maybe there's a variety available to pros, but the folks at the hardware store just shrug and hand me the teflon string. (Stem leaks have been a consistent curse at this 65-year-old house...). |
#19
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I didn't think about this, I see what you're saying (stem screws down in
body of the valve so will be held in place there with water off even though nut is removed) and I'm guessing you're correct, but I'm a bit leery to attempt this without being absolutely certain before hand I'm not going to get a geyser, with no easy/quick way of shutting it off (per the previous comments re the likely condition of the curb valve, lack of a wrench, etc.) Is this the universal design (no possibility stem, handle and all are going to come off with the nut)? Valve is about 50 years old. I guess I can easily shut the water off, then loosen the nut slowly to see what happens. Sure like the "continue living my life part", lol. Dan El-Jay wrote: "Dave Morrison" wrote in message ... If the valve is installed properly when you close it there is no pressure at the packing nut. You can at this point unscrew the nut and wrap a few strands of packing around the shaft, tighten the nut, open the valve and continue living your life. Good point. That means he can probably fix the valve stem leak without having to shut off the water at the curb. |
#20
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Well, I went down & shut off the valve, then backed off the nut
slightly. Began to leak more, so I opened a nearby faucet to remove pressure on the outlet side & the leaking stopped. I slacked off the nut about half way; no leaking, so it seems I may be able to repack the valve w/o shutting off the outside water control. I'll go to the hdwr store & see what they have for this before proceeding further. Plus I'm having to soak the screw that retains the valve handle in penetrating oil to get it out w/o risking breaking it off. Ironically, after all this when I reopened the valve, the leak has substantially quit. No doubt not for long, however. When it comes to plumbing, I'd rather do electrical ;-) Dan Dan wrote: I didn't think about this, I see what you're saying (stem screws down in body of the valve so will be held in place there with water off even though nut is removed) and I'm guessing you're correct, but I'm a bit leery to attempt this without being absolutely certain before hand I'm not going to get a geyser, with no easy/quick way of shutting it off (per the previous comments re the likely condition of the curb valve, lack of a wrench, etc.) Is this the universal design (no possibility stem, handle and all are going to come off with the nut)? Valve is about 50 years old. I guess I can easily shut the water off, then loosen the nut slowly to see what happens. Sure like the "continue living my life part", lol. Dan El-Jay wrote: "Dave Morrison" wrote in message ... If the valve is installed properly when you close it there is no pressure at the packing nut. You can at this point unscrew the nut and wrap a few strands of packing around the shaft, tighten the nut, open the valve and continue living your life. Good point. That means he can probably fix the valve stem leak without having to shut off the water at the curb. |
#21
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"Dan" wrote in message
... When it comes to plumbing, I'd rather do electrical ;-) When it comes to electrical, I'd rather do plumbing. I can sometimes outrun a water leak, but have never been able to outrun electricity. |
#22
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Shutoff valve before water meter: Whose problem?
replying to Dan, ES wrote:
leaking shotoff valve on the City side of the water meter is the cities responsibility. Senior Engineer, Public Works(retired) -- posted from http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...em-595873-.htm |
#23
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Shutoff valve before water meter: Whose problem?
just tighten the packing nut 1/2 to 1 turn. or tighten till the leak stops..
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#24
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Shutoff valve before water meter: Whose problem?
On 6/24/2016 1:44 PM, ES wrote:
replying to Dan, ES wrote: leaking shotoff valve on the City side of the water meter is the cities responsibility. Senior Engineer, Public Works(retired) ISTR everything up to and INCLUDING the meter is the city's (or, "water company's") responsibility. The output of the water meter is the homeowner/customer's problem. |
#25
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Shutoff valve before water meter: Whose problem?
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 20:44:02 +0000, ES
wrote: replying to Dan, ES wrote: leaking shotoff valve on the City side of the water meter is the cities responsibility. Senior Engineer, Public Works(retired) If it is inside the house (virtually all water meters here in Ontario and most of Canada are) the shutoff valve ahead of the meter inside the house is the homeowner's responsibility. The shutoff hydrant at the street is the end of the "public works" responsibility. When they came to change the meter at my house, the shutoff leaked so they had to shut it off at the street. While waiting for them to shut it off I ran out and got a new 1/4 turn valve and I had it replaced in minutes while the public works guy readied the new meter for installation.. Saved me a $100 plumber's call and doing it while they had it shut off saved me the call-out fee to shut it off at the street. Since they had to do it to change the meter, it was a NO CHARGE call-out. |
#26
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Shutoff valve before water meter: Whose problem?
On 6/24/2016 1:59 PM, bob haller wrote:
just tighten the packing nut 1/2 to 1 turn. or tighten till the leak stops.. Or back off the packing nut and add more packing. A piece of string will do. Then tighten backup. |
#27
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Shutoff valve before water meter: Whose problem?
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#28
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Shutoff valve before water meter: Whose problem?
On 6/24/2016 5:13 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
When I replaced the galvanized in my 2-flat in Chicago there was a small meter pit with a valve in the front parkway. Cast iron cover. I closed the inside valve (3/4" gate valve) at the end of the lead pipe service, but was I was still getting a solid flow of water out of the basement sink. I worked the valve good, but it was shot. It needed replacement. Gate valves don't fare well over time. Esp if you have mineral deposits in the water. So I closed the outside pit valve (3/4" gate again) but it made no difference that I could see in the flow from the basement faucet. Worked that one good too, but that valve was shot too. That's just what happens with 60 year old unused valves. Made up the new opened valve with a teflon taped short nipple and got a buddy to hold up a big galvanized wash tub. Same kind we used to bathe in when I was a tyke spending the summer with my ma's folks in the Ozarks. When I cranked off that old valve it seemed like there was full city water pressure coming out of the lead pipe. We both got splashed and half soaked. He actually dropped the tub for an instant. But I was pretty fast cranking in the new valve and shutting it off. Had it ready and at hand. Probably spilled 3-4 gallons, most of it caught by the tub. That outside city valve was doing squat. I installed a ball valve *at* the house (downstream from the valve on the load side of the water meter by the curb) so that I could be *sure* the water was off when I wanted it to be so. Another downstream from that to allow the irrigation water to be stopped and an electrically operated valve to gate the domestic water supply (plus half-a-dozen ball valves to allow the water filter and water softener to be selectively bypassed, as needed. (ditto for the water heater) When/if the city needs to replace their valve(s), they physically deform the water main to pinch it closed to interrupt the flow. |
#29
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Shutoff valve before water meter: Whose problem?
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:59:35 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote: just tighten the packing nut 1/2 to 1 turn. or tighten till the leak stops.. Woulkdn't have solved my problem -They could not stop the water flow to change the water meter. |
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