Even 'if' humidifying wastes energy by using water, etc.... it gives you
health benefits, prevents your carpet fibers from drying out , wood
from cracking , and static shocks . ITs worth the expense....and : The
only free lunch is in a mousetrap !

"Rod Speed" wrote in message

Most winters it is dry enough here that I want to add humidity for
personal comfort. Any energy used to achieve that I don't consider
wasted, but well spent. .

Irrelevant to what was being discussed in this particular subthread.


But this is a sub-sub thread making it relevant again.

HVAC fella wrote:

Even 'if' humidifying wastes energy by using water, etc.... it gives you
health benefits, prevents your carpet fibers from drying out , wood
from cracking , and static shocks .

Maybe, but Lennox claimed winter humidification saved energy.

Nick

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 20:29:21 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Rod Speed" wrote in message

Most winters it is dry enough here that I want to add humidity for
personal comfort. Any energy used to achieve that I don't consider
wasted, but well spent. .

Irrelevant to what was being discussed in this particular subthread.


But this is a sub-sub thread making it relevant again.


nazi ! nazi ! nazi !

Now the thread will die .....



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

If it does start to get weak, then we can always ask what temperature
water freezes at. That will perk things up.

Gymmie Bob Luvs Rod Speed wrote:
I didn't post the garbage you attributed to me.

Yes you did, it's a direct quote but your top posting leaves folks
scratching their head. Even YOU cannot figure it out what's what.

On your bike bottom feeder.

Yes. I'll ride a bike while you continue to ride Rod.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote in
message news:BA8Pd.25254$t46.15189@trndny04...
Rod Speed wrote

Most winters it is dry enough here that I want to add humidity for personal
comfort. Any energy used to achieve that I don't consider wasted, but well
spent. .

Irrelevant to what was being discussed in this particular subthread.

But this is a sub-sub thread making it relevant again.

Wrong. As always.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message

But this is a sub-sub thread making it relevant again.

Wrong. As always.


Of course since your post has nothing to do with the thread, original or
sub, yours is irrelevant again too.

More humidity serves as a better heat transfer. I have found that on more
humid days during the winter, I have to bring UP the temperature for the
same comfort level.
But the humidity is needed. Supplied either by a humidifier, or by my wife,
and she complains when her eyes are dry because I failed to run the
humidifier.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...

Edwin Pawlowski wrote in
message news:BA8Pd.25254$t46.15189@trndny04...
Rod Speed wrote

Most winters it is dry enough here that I want to add humidity for
personal
comfort. Any energy used to achieve that I don't consider wasted, but
well
spent. .

Irrelevant to what was being discussed in this particular subthread.

But this is a sub-sub thread making it relevant again.

Wrong. As always.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"Rod Speed" wrote in message

But this is a sub-sub thread making it relevant again.

Wrong. As always.


Of course since your post has nothing to do with the thread, original or sub,
yours is irrelevant again too.

Wrong. As always.

When I use pot I imagine everythging is perfect.

LOL

"Matt" wrote in message
oups.com...
I just have pot. It's done wonders too.

No it doesn't!

"Matt" wrote in message
ups.com...
If it does start to get weak, then we can always ask what temperature
water freezes at. That will perk things up.

You can ride my rod.
wrote in message
oups.com...

Gymmie Bob Luvs Rod Speed wrote:
I didn't post the garbage you attributed to me.

Yes you did, it's a direct quote but your top posting leaves folks
scratching their head. Even YOU cannot figure it out what's what.

On your bike bottom feeder.

Yes. I'll ride a bike while you continue to ride Rod.

Gymmie Bob wrote:

You can ride my rod.

Weren't you the pervert condoning anal sex in a stiching group? Give it up,
weirdo..




mike

Don't you have anything better than to troll the newsgroups?

Grow up.

"m II" wrote in message newslePd.44843$gA4.4133@edtnps89...
Gymmie Bob wrote:

You can ride my rod.

Weren't you the pervert condoning anal sex in a stiching group? Give it
up,
weirdo..




mike

TROLL, GET IT yet everyone

Serendipity wrote:

...I posted a link where it explains that extra humidifacation
actually saves you energy.

Post it again. So many myths. So little time...

That precisely is what google is for. I don't need to waste energy
posting the same thing twice

We might explore a different myth. Does anyone have any real non-anecdotal
evidence that low humidity actually causes health problems? Do people who
live in Arizona have more or fewer respiratory problems than the rest of us?

Swiss people open windows and crawl under thick quilts in unheated bedrooms
in wintertime because they believe that cold dry winter air is healthier...

Nick

Abby Normal wrote:

Homes built to current Canadian codes, and not as stringent as the R2000
requirements concerning air tightness, would still be perhaps 0.3 ACH
per hour and will still require mechanical ventilation to reduce RH
in the winter.

Andersen says an average family evaporates 2 gal/day of water. At that rate,
how large could a 0.3 ACH house be, with indoor air at 70 F and 50% RH?

Give up?

If an A ft^2 x 8' tall house leaks 0.3x8A0.075 = 0.18A pounds of air per hour
and a pound of 70F air at 50% RH contains 0.00787 pounds of water and a pound
of outdoor air contains 0.0025 pounds of water and we supply 2x8.33/24 = 0.694
lb/h of water indoors, 0.18A(0.00787-0.0025) = .694, so A = 718 ft^2.

Are you talking about igloos? :-)

Nick

wrote in message
We might explore a different myth. Does anyone have any real non-anecdotal
evidence that low humidity actually causes health problems? Do people who
live in Arizona have more or fewer respiratory problems than the rest of
us?

My son is a respitory therapist and has his own home care business. I've
worked for him on weekends. He has many incidences of problems from too dry
air in the winter, mostly from older people. They have trouble with mucous
linings of nasal pssages dryness that can cause nazal bleeding. None are
life threatening, but many create a lot of discomfort. Some of these people
also keep their house a few degrees warmer than the rest of us for other
reasons and this exaberates the problem. Humidifiers give a lot of relief or
eliminate t he problem.

I don't know the relative humidity of Arizona compared with a heated house
with a 70 degree temperature differential from outside. Probably Arizona is
higher. I'ms ure you can research this.
..

Swiss people open windows and crawl under thick quilts in unheated
bedrooms
in wintertime because they believe that cold dry winter air is
healthier...

The cold dry is not as dry as taking that same air and heating it 60 or 70
degrees.
I like a cool bedroom, but I don't open the windows.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

We might explore a different myth. Does anyone have any real non-anecdotal
evidence that low humidity actually causes health problems? Do people who
live in Arizona have more or fewer respiratory problems than the rest of us?

Doctors used to advise TB patients to go live in Arizona...

My son is a respitory therapist and has his own home care business. I've
worked for him on weekends. He has many incidences of problems from too dry
air in the winter, mostly from older people.

That's more than "anecdotal..."

...trouble with mucous linings of nasal pssages dryness that can cause nazal
bleeding. None are life threatening, but many create a lot of discomfort.

http://www.who.int/ith/chapter02_01.html
http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/burema...bhose_ce01.cfm

The sites above mention "discomfort" with low health risks. Then again,
there are other remedies, eg skin ointments, mufflers and saline sprays.

Many sites mention mold problems from higher humidity, and this one

http://www.webcom.com/~bi/formaldehyde.html

says raising the RH in a house from from 30 to 70%
can increase the formaldehyde level by 40%.

As to static, I found this

ANTI-STATIC SPRAY RECIPE

1/4 cup commercial liquid fabric softener
1/4 cup ammonia
2 cups water

Mix ingredients and store in a spray bottle. Spray liberally on the rug,
your shoes, chair, desktop, or file cabinet, but do not spray directly onto
your computer system.

Salt water might work as well.

As to furniture cracking, my cabinetmaker friend Bob goes to
great lengths to avoid cracks from humidity changes, by design.

I've seen local RH controls for pianos, guitars and violins.

Swiss people open windows and crawl under thick quilts in unheated
bedrooms in wintertime because they believe that cold dry winter air is
healthier...

The cold dry is not as dry as taking that same air and heating it 60 or 70
degrees.

That doesn't change its moisture content.

Nick

wrote:

We might explore a different myth. Does anyone have any real non-anecdotal
evidence that low humidity actually causes health problems? Do people who
live in Arizona have more or fewer respiratory problems than the rest of us?

Interesting that you request evidence but choose to label this a myth...
You're supposed to gather evidence first before you come to a conclusion.

I live in New Mexico, not Arizona. Still the desert southwest. I live
up high where it gets cold, so not only is it dry, we get a significant
temperature differential between inside and outside. 10-15%RH is common
inside in the winter, without humidification.

Our noses bleed. Our skin is dry and scratchy. We have a high
incidence of sinus infections. The symptoms go away when we travel to
humid regions for even short periods.

Low humidity isn't life-threatening, but it can be uncomfortable.

Then again, in the summer sweating here actually works the way it's
supposed to.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:14:34 -0500, "Gymmie Bob"
wrote:

Don't you have anything better than to troll the newsgroups?

Definitions of the word "troll" may vary. Would you say that 43 posts
per day might be a strong indicator of trollishness?
http://tinyurl.com/5u7le

Wayne

wrote in message

...trouble with mucous linings of nasal pssages dryness that can cause
nazal
bleeding. None are life threatening, but many create a lot of discomfort.

http://www.who.int/ith/chapter02_01.html
http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/burema...bhose_ce01.cfm

The sites above mention "discomfort" with low health risks. Then again,
there are other remedies, eg skin ointments, mufflers and saline sprays.

Works for some people, but for a 75 year old person with other problems,
they don't want to play wiht sprays and oitments,



Many sites mention mold problems from higher humidity, and this one

http://www.webcom.com/~bi/formaldehyde.html

says raising the RH in a house from from 30 to 70%
can increase the formaldehyde level by 40%.

Why would anyonw want 70% RH? Most people are very happy wiht 30% to 50%.
Rather than live in a dry uncormfortable environment, other measures should
be taken to eliminagte the causal relationships noted.




As to furniture cracking, my cabinetmaker friend Bob goes to
great lengths to avoid cracks from humidity changes, by design.

Step one is to dry the wood beforehand. Wood moves with climate changes and
has to be considered in design. Extreme fluctuations still happen Museums
presverve furniture by keeping the environment stable year round. Most
homeowners don't have the resurces to do that fine of control. Adding
humidity is one though.

Your friend Bob is making his work in a small region. Furniture build in a
drasticly idfferent climate will have movement when shipped 2000 miles to
another extreme. His perfectly fit chair rung will hold up better over time
than a pefectly fit chair rung in a tropical region and then shipped to a
very dry region.



The cold dry is not as dry as taking that same air and heating it 60 or 70
degrees.

That doesn't change its moisture content.


True. but when you heat the air in a hot air furnace and then vent some of
the air up the flue, you are left with a very dry air and low relative
humidity.

They are advised of that due to the lower pollutant/pollen count than
elsewhere (almost desert), not because the humidity is lower.

wrote in message
...
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
Doctors used to advise TB patients to go live in Arizona...

wrote in message
...

We might explore a different myth. Does anyone have any real non-anecdotal
evidence that low humidity actually causes health problems? Do people who
live in Arizona have more or fewer respiratory problems than the rest of
us?

I dont have any extreme proof that lower humidity in the home effects ones
health
but since I started using a DEhumidifier I have no traces of mold anywhere
in my home
and no condensation on any window glass. I also noticed I stopped sneezing
100 times a day
and a cough that dragged on for weeks mysteriously disapearred practically
over night.
The house actually feels warmer (dryer air?) and my gas billed dropped
$12.00 from last month.
So I dunno......


Swiss people open windows and crawl under thick quilts in unheated
bedrooms
in wintertime because they believe that cold dry winter air is
healthier...

Nick

wrote in message
...

As to static, I found this

The only place I have any static is in my car. When I get out of the car
and I touch the door frame to close the door I get a heck of a shock.
What causes this and is there any way to prevent it?

"suzn" wrote in message

The only place I have any static is in my car. When I get out of the car
and I touch the door frame to close the door I get a heck of a shock.
What causes this and is there any way to prevent it?

The static is cause by your clothing rubbing against the seat upholstery
when you get out. Easy to prevent, just drive naked.

If you choose to continue wearing clothing, hold the keys in your hand as
you get out. Now, touch the key to the door frame and see the spark jump.
Once grounded, you can close the door wit no shock.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. com...
The static is cause by your clothing rubbing against the seat upholstery
when you get out. Easy to prevent, just drive naked.

Hmmm....
No more shock for me but might shock everyone else.....

If you choose to continue wearing clothing, hold the keys in your hand as
you get out. Now, touch the key to the door frame and see the spark
jump. Once grounded, you can close the door wit no shock.

I'll try that next time!
Thanks.

I used to shock my equipment (powerpack, synchronisers, modeling lights,
that sort of thing) and started drinking more water and it stopped. static
seems to prefer dryness.

Raven
"suzn" wrote in message
...

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. com...
The static is cause by your clothing rubbing against the seat upholstery
when you get out. Easy to prevent, just drive naked.

Hmmm....
No more shock for me but might shock everyone else.....

If you choose to continue wearing clothing, hold the keys in your hand
as
you get out. Now, touch the key to the door frame and see the spark
jump. Once grounded, you can close the door wit no shock.

I'll try that next time!
Thanks.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
....
The static is cause by your clothing rubbing against the seat upholstery
when you get out. Easy to prevent, just drive naked.

If you choose to continue wearing clothing, hold the keys in your hand as
you get out. Now, touch the key to the door frame and see the spark jump.
Once grounded, you can close the door wit no shock.

You could also just hold on to the frame of the car as you slide out.
This will ground out the charge as soon as it builds, no sparks.

It seems to me that it happens more with nylon and synthetic fibers
than with cotton. Changing what you wear and using anti-static
sprays on the seats might help.

Anthony

wrote:
....
As to static, I found this

ANTI-STATIC SPRAY RECIPE

1/4 cup commercial liquid fabric softener
1/4 cup ammonia
2 cups water

Mix ingredients and store in a spray bottle. Spray liberally on the rug,
your shoes, chair, desktop, or file cabinet, but do not spray directly onto
your computer system.
....

I've found that petting cats will generate quite a lot of static
electricity in dry air (a not-uncommon observation). I doubt many
cats would like getting sprayed with that recipe.

Anthony

In article ,
wrote:

As to static, I found this

ANTI-STATIC SPRAY RECIPE

1/4 cup commercial liquid fabric softener
1/4 cup ammonia
2 cups water

Just what people want...more chemical pollution

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:11:59 GMT, Anthony Matonak
wrote:

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
...
The static is cause by your clothing rubbing against the seat upholstery
when you get out. Easy to prevent, just drive naked.

If you choose to continue wearing clothing, hold the keys in your hand as
you get out. Now, touch the key to the door frame and see the spark jump.
Once grounded, you can close the door wit no shock.

You could also just hold on to the frame of the car as you slide out.
This will ground out the charge as soon as it builds, no sparks.

It seems to me that it happens more with nylon and synthetic fibers
than with cotton. Changing what you wear and using anti-static
sprays on the seats might help.

Anthony

It happens to me *every* time I get out of the car (AZ). I sort of
smack the window frame as I get out, which lessens the effect, and
eliminates the surprise. Strangely enough, it *never* happens to my
wife, who wears very similar clothing.

Wayne

Get some anti-static spray and spray the materials. It can collect dust
though with the oiliness of it. There may be better sprays out on the market
now though.

"suzn" wrote in message
...

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. com...
The static is cause by your clothing rubbing against the seat upholstery
when you get out. Easy to prevent, just drive naked.

Hmmm....
No more shock for me but might shock everyone else.....

If you choose to continue wearing clothing, hold the keys in your hand
as
you get out. Now, touch the key to the door frame and see the spark
jump. Once grounded, you can close the door wit no shock.

I'll try that next time!
Thanks.

wmbjk wrote:
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:11:59 GMT, Anthony Matonak
wrote:


Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
...

The static is cause by your clothing rubbing against the seat upholstery
when you get out. Easy to prevent, just drive naked.

If you choose to continue wearing clothing, hold the keys in your hand as
you get out. Now, touch the key to the door frame and see the spark jump.
Once grounded, you can close the door wit no shock.

You could also just hold on to the frame of the car as you slide out.
This will ground out the charge as soon as it builds, no sparks.

It seems to me that it happens more with nylon and synthetic fibers
than with cotton. Changing what you wear and using anti-static
sprays on the seats might help.

Anthony


It happens to me *every* time I get out of the car (AZ). I sort of
smack the window frame as I get out, which lessens the effect, and
eliminates the surprise. Strangely enough, it *never* happens to my
wife, who wears very similar clothing.

Wayne

Install a ground strap to drag from the car frame.. They were quite
common in the late 1950's to early 1960's.

It's usually the clothes, seat material combination, no the static buildup
of tires This doesn't happen with radials, so I''m told. It happenned a lot
with bias ply tires.

"Don Ocean" wrote in message
...
wmbjk wrote:
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:11:59 GMT, Anthony Matonak
wrote:


Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
...

The static is cause by your clothing rubbing against the seat
upholstery
when you get out. Easy to prevent, just drive naked.

If you choose to continue wearing clothing, hold the keys in your hand
as
you get out. Now, touch the key to the door frame and see the spark
jump.
Once grounded, you can close the door wit no shock.

You could also just hold on to the frame of the car as you slide out.
This will ground out the charge as soon as it builds, no sparks.

It seems to me that it happens more with nylon and synthetic fibers
than with cotton. Changing what you wear and using anti-static
sprays on the seats might help.

Anthony


It happens to me *every* time I get out of the car (AZ). I sort of
smack the window frame as I get out, which lessens the effect, and
eliminates the surprise. Strangely enough, it *never* happens to my
wife, who wears very similar clothing.

Wayne

Install a ground strap to drag from the car frame.. They were quite
common in the late 1950's to early 1960's.

But the ammonia eliminates the clothing when the colours are all bleached
out. The problem is gone with the clothing...LOL

"Robert Morien" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:

As to static, I found this

ANTI-STATIC SPRAY RECIPE

1/4 cup commercial liquid fabric softener
1/4 cup ammonia
2 cups water

Just what people want...more chemical pollution

I wear cotton/ fire retardant clothing to work and it makes it worse. Now
the FR they use may do something also but the static generator kits sold
years back had synthetics frictioning against cotton to generate the static
electricity.

"Anthony Matonak" wrote in message
news:jqtPd.16318$uc.6843@trnddc05...
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
...
The static is cause by your clothing rubbing against the seat upholstery
when you get out. Easy to prevent, just drive naked.

If you choose to continue wearing clothing, hold the keys in your hand
as
you get out. Now, touch the key to the door frame and see the spark
jump.
Once grounded, you can close the door wit no shock.

You could also just hold on to the frame of the car as you slide out.
This will ground out the charge as soon as it builds, no sparks.

It seems to me that it happens more with nylon and synthetic fibers
than with cotton. Changing what you wear and using anti-static
sprays on the seats might help.

Anthony

"wmbjk" wmbjk@remove_this citlink.net wrote in message
...
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:11:59 GMT, Anthony Matonak
wrote:

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
...
The static is cause by your clothing rubbing against the seat upholstery
when you get out. Easy to prevent, just drive naked.

If you choose to continue wearing clothing, hold the keys in your hand
as
you get out. Now, touch the key to the door frame and see the spark
jump.
Once grounded, you can close the door wit no shock.

You could also just hold on to the frame of the car as you slide out.
This will ground out the charge as soon as it builds, no sparks.

It seems to me that it happens more with nylon and synthetic fibers
than with cotton. Changing what you wear and using anti-static
sprays on the seats might help.

Anthony

It happens to me *every* time I get out of the car (AZ). I sort of
smack the window frame as I get out, which lessens the effect, and
eliminates the surprise. Strangely enough, it *never* happens to my
wife, who wears very similar clothing.

Wayne

Perhaps it's her shoes. Similar clothing would *generate* similar charge,
but a different kind of shoe could dissipate the charge faster. Or maybe
she holds onto the door when getting out?

daestrom

There was news show that was talking about the static electric discharge
causing several car fires.. Mostly happening to women.. They get out of
the car.. start the pump. get back into the car to get cc etc.. or to
stay warm.. get out of the car.. touch the fuel filler nozzel and Zap SE
discharge and vaporizing fuel pouring out of the fill nozzle..

Just another reason to ground oneself getting in and out of the car.

Steve

daestrom wrote:
"wmbjk" wmbjk@remove_this citlink.net wrote in message
...

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:11:59 GMT, Anthony Matonak
wrote:


Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
...

The static is cause by your clothing rubbing against the seat upholstery
when you get out. Easy to prevent, just drive naked.

If you choose to continue wearing clothing, hold the keys in your hand
as
you get out. Now, touch the key to the door frame and see the spark
jump.
Once grounded, you can close the door wit no shock.

You could also just hold on to the frame of the car as you slide out.
This will ground out the charge as soon as it builds, no sparks.

It seems to me that it happens more with nylon and synthetic fibers
than with cotton. Changing what you wear and using anti-static
sprays on the seats might help.

Anthony

It happens to me *every* time I get out of the car (AZ). I sort of
smack the window frame as I get out, which lessens the effect, and
eliminates the surprise. Strangely enough, it *never* happens to my
wife, who wears very similar clothing.

Wayne


Perhaps it's her shoes. Similar clothing would *generate* similar charge,
but a different kind of shoe could dissipate the charge faster. Or maybe
she holds onto the door when getting out?

daestrom