In my quest to find why we use so much water for domestic needs, I
measured our shower head output this morning. It measured exactly
2-gallons in 1-minute. Seems high. What is the recommended flow rate
for water conservation?

Dick

2.5 gpm

"Dick" LeadWinger wrote in message
...
In my quest to find why we use so much water for domestic needs, I
measured our shower head output this morning. It measured exactly
2-gallons in 1-minute. Seems high. What is the recommended flow rate
for water conservation?

Dick

Maximum Conservation Efficiency (MCE) is acheived at a flow rate of 0 gpm,
but you're going to be walking around dirty or soapy. Here's another
thought- it takes x amount of water to wash off y amount of soap.
Hypothetical example: if the flow is 2gpm, let's say it takes 2 minutes to
wash off the soap. If the flow rate decreases to 1gpm, it now takes 4
minutes to wash off the same amount of soap. Of course, there are
psychological and comfort factors, but they can't be measured very well.

As you can tell, I belong to the "low flow does not conserve water, only
wastes time" camp.

zero?

low flow is considered 2-2.5 gallons a minute.

take that 2 gallons, guess how long for each shower, multiply it by the
number of showers in a month (estimate) and see how much of your water
consumption is showering. my guess: this isnt the problem.

bigger worries: leaky faucets. lots of laundry. toilets that take 3
gallons a flush.

randy

"Dick" LeadWinger wrote in message
...
In my quest to find why we use so much water for domestic needs, I
measured our shower head output this morning. It measured exactly
2-gallons in 1-minute. Seems high. What is the recommended flow rate
for water conservation?

Dick

ps, if you're really worried about it, get a showerehead with a valve on it
and turn it off between rinses.

randy

"xrongor" wrote in message
...
zero?

low flow is considered 2-2.5 gallons a minute.

take that 2 gallons, guess how long for each shower, multiply it by the
number of showers in a month (estimate) and see how much of your water
consumption is showering. my guess: this isnt the problem.

bigger worries: leaky faucets. lots of laundry. toilets that take 3
gallons a flush.

randy

"Dick" LeadWinger wrote in message
...
In my quest to find why we use so much water for domestic needs, I
measured our shower head output this morning. It measured exactly
2-gallons in 1-minute. Seems high. What is the recommended flow rate
for water conservation?

Dick

Dick wrote:

In my quest to find why we use so much water for domestic needs, I
measured our shower head output this morning. It measured exactly
2-gallons in 1-minute. Seems high. What is the recommended flow rate
for water conservation?

The water conservation issue is a hoax. First, there is plenty of
water in the world. Second, more is being made every day as a result of
fossil fuel combustion. Third, using water in toilets and laundry
machines doesn't destroy it. Fourth, by putting water in your septic
system or sewer, you are returning it to nature. Evaporation, cloud
formation, precipitation, collection and use continue the cycle.

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 19:39:01 GMT, wrote:

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 12:29:07 -0700, "xrongor"
wrote:

zero?

low flow is considered 2-2.5 gallons a minute.

take that 2 gallons, guess how long for each shower, multiply it by the
number of showers in a month (estimate) and see how much of your water
consumption is showering. my guess: this isnt the problem.

bigger worries: leaky faucets. lots of laundry. toilets that take 3
gallons a flush.


Taking shorter showers can make a huge difference!

BB

Yes, it does. We are trying to unload the amount the leach field has
to dispose of each day to reduce the number of times we get the septic
pumped at $460 each. Had to do it 3 times since August. It isn't
just domestic water use, but heavy rains that saturate the leach
field. Can't do much about the weather, but can reduce the amount of
water we put in it. If we have two showers each day at our
2-gallon/min flow rate, that's 60 gallons, or 40% of our daily water
use. Eight flushes of two toilets at 3-1/2 gal/per is 56 gallons.
That's nearly 80% of our total. The rest being drinking water, dish
washer and clothes washer.

I have on order two Toto UltraMax toilets which will help on that
side. If we can limit our showers to 5-minutes each, that should help
there. We already have a front-load Maytag which is very conservative
of water use. We can try to stretch out our dishwasher use. That's
about all we can do without getting ridiculous. I am also looking
into a gray water system, but the requirements here are very
restrictive, and don't know if I want to deal with the red tape.

Not trying to save water. Trying to save our septic system.

Dick

"William W. Plummer" wrote in message
...
Dick wrote:

In my quest to find why we use so much water for domestic needs, I
measured our shower head output this morning. It measured exactly
2-gallons in 1-minute. Seems high. What is the recommended flow rate
for water conservation?

The water conservation issue is a hoax. First, there is plenty of water
in the world. Second, more is being made every day as a result of fossil
fuel combustion. Third, using water in toilets and laundry machines
doesn't destroy it. Fourth, by putting water in your septic system or
sewer, you are returning it to nature. Evaporation, cloud formation,
precipitation, collection and use continue the cycle.

whether its a hoax or not, it still costs more to use more if they meter
your water. use less, save money. no science needed.

randy

xrongor wrote:
"William W. Plummer" wrote in message
...

Dick wrote:


In my quest to find why we use so much water for domestic needs, I
measured our shower head output this morning. It measured exactly
2-gallons in 1-minute. Seems high. What is the recommended flow rate
for water conservation?

The water conservation issue is a hoax. First, there is plenty of water
in the world. Second, more is being made every day as a result of fossil
fuel combustion. Third, using water in toilets and laundry machines
doesn't destroy it. Fourth, by putting water in your septic system or
sewer, you are returning it to nature. Evaporation, cloud formation,
precipitation, collection and use continue the cycle.


whether its a hoax or not, it still costs more to use more if they meter
your water. use less, save money. no science needed.

I typically use 10,000 gal per quarter at $3.00 per 1000 gal. $30 per
quarter. Conservation might cut this to $20 if I'm really lucky.

My guess is the fuel required to *heat* wasted hot water far outstrips
the cost of the water itself.

xrongor wrote:

ps, if you're really worried about it, get a showerehead with a valve on it
and turn it off between rinses.


Even better get a "navy" showerhead. It has a ring on a chain you have
to pull down on to keep the valve open. Just like those emergency wash
down showers located in places where hazardous stuff is handled.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

Dick LeadWinger wrote:
We are trying to unload the amount the leach field has
to dispose of each day to reduce the number of times we get the septic
pumped at $460 each. Had to do it 3 times since August. It isn't
just domestic water use, but heavy rains that saturate the leach
field. Can't do much about the weather, but can reduce the amount of
water we put in it. If we have two showers each day at our
2-gallon/min flow rate, that's 60 gallons, or 40% of our daily water
use. Eight flushes of two toilets at 3-1/2 gal/per is 56 gallons.
That's nearly 80% of our total. The rest being drinking water, dish
washer and clothes washer.

I have on order two Toto UltraMax toilets which will help on that
side. If we can limit our showers to 5-minutes each, that should help
there. We already have a front-load Maytag which is very conservative
of water use. We can try to stretch out our dishwasher use. That's
about all we can do without getting ridiculous. I am also looking
into a gray water system, but the requirements here are very
restrictive, and don't know if I want to deal with the red tape.

Not trying to save water. Trying to save our septic system.

If your septic system has needed to be pumped three times since August, it's
beyond saving -- that sucker is toast. Methinks a new leach field is in your
near future.

"Alan" wrote in message
...

"Dick" LeadWinger wrote in message
...
In my quest to find why we use so much water for domestic needs, I
measured our shower head output this morning. It measured exactly
2-gallons in 1-minute. Seems high. What is the recommended flow rate
for water conservation?

Dick

Maximum Conservation Efficiency (MCE) is acheived at a flow rate of 0 gpm,
but you're going to be walking around dirty or soapy. Here's another
thought- it takes x amount of water to wash off y amount of soap.
Hypothetical example: if the flow is 2gpm, let's say it takes 2 minutes to
wash off the soap. If the flow rate decreases to 1gpm, it now takes 4
minutes to wash off the same amount of soap. Of course, there are
psychological and comfort factors, but they can't be measured very well.

As you can tell, I belong to the "low flow does not conserve water, only
wastes time" camp.

Here here,,,, first thing I do is remove the restrictor in the shower head.
Faucets I leave alone. When I was traveling a lot I even carried a special
pair of water pump pliers for the hotel room showers, if needed. Before I
check out I would put the restrictor back.

"Andy Hill" wrote in message
...
Dick LeadWinger wrote:
We are trying to unload the amount the leach field has
to dispose of each day to reduce the number of times we get the septic
pumped at $460 each. Had to do it 3 times since August. It isn't
just domestic water use, but heavy rains that saturate the leach
field. Can't do much about the weather, but can reduce the amount of
water we put in it. If we have two showers each day at our
2-gallon/min flow rate, that's 60 gallons, or 40% of our daily water
use. Eight flushes of two toilets at 3-1/2 gal/per is 56 gallons.
That's nearly 80% of our total. The rest being drinking water, dish
washer and clothes washer.

I have on order two Toto UltraMax toilets which will help on that
side. If we can limit our showers to 5-minutes each, that should help
there. We already have a front-load Maytag which is very conservative
of water use. We can try to stretch out our dishwasher use. That's
about all we can do without getting ridiculous. I am also looking
into a gray water system, but the requirements here are very
restrictive, and don't know if I want to deal with the red tape.

Not trying to save water. Trying to save our septic system.

If your septic system has needed to be pumped three times since August,
it's
beyond saving -- that sucker is toast. Methinks a new leach field is in
your
near future.

my thoughts exactly, a new leaching field definitely and remember the saying
"Conserve water, shower w/ a friend"

mike...............

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 15:33:02 -0500, "William W. Plummer"
wrote:

xrongor wrote:
"William W. Plummer" wrote in message
...

Dick wrote:


In my quest to find why we use so much water for domestic needs, I
measured our shower head output this morning. It measured exactly
2-gallons in 1-minute. Seems high. What is the recommended flow rate
for water conservation?

The water conservation issue is a hoax. First, there is plenty of water
in the world. Second, more is being made every day as a result of fossil
fuel combustion. Third, using water in toilets and laundry machines
doesn't destroy it. Fourth, by putting water in your septic system or
sewer, you are returning it to nature. Evaporation, cloud formation,
precipitation, collection and use continue the cycle.


whether its a hoax or not, it still costs more to use more if they meter
your water. use less, save money. no science needed.

I typically use 10,000 gal per quarter at $3.00 per 1000 gal. $30 per
quarter. Conservation might cut this to $20 if I'm really lucky.

My guess is the fuel required to *heat* wasted hot water far outstrips
the cost of the water itself.

You are fortunate. We spend more than 3 times that on water. But, as
I said earlier, saving water is not the issue. Saving the septic
system is the goal.

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 13:55:43 -0700, Andy Hill
wrote:

Dick LeadWinger wrote:
We are trying to unload the amount the leach field has
to dispose of each day to reduce the number of times we get the septic
pumped at $460 each. Had to do it 3 times since August. It isn't
just domestic water use, but heavy rains that saturate the leach
field. Can't do much about the weather, but can reduce the amount of
water we put in it. If we have two showers each day at our
2-gallon/min flow rate, that's 60 gallons, or 40% of our daily water
use. Eight flushes of two toilets at 3-1/2 gal/per is 56 gallons.
That's nearly 80% of our total. The rest being drinking water, dish
washer and clothes washer.

I have on order two Toto UltraMax toilets which will help on that
side. If we can limit our showers to 5-minutes each, that should help
there. We already have a front-load Maytag which is very conservative
of water use. We can try to stretch out our dishwasher use. That's
about all we can do without getting ridiculous. I am also looking
into a gray water system, but the requirements here are very
restrictive, and don't know if I want to deal with the red tape.

Not trying to save water. Trying to save our septic system.

If your septic system has needed to be pumped three times since August, it's
beyond saving -- that sucker is toast. Methinks a new leach field is in your
near future.

Others in our situation in our housing area have "saved" their leach
field by using a gray water system to give the leach area a "rest."

"Dick" LeadWinger wrote in message
...
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 13:55:43 -0700, Andy Hill
wrote:

Dick LeadWinger wrote:
We are trying to unload the amount the leach field has
to dispose of each day to reduce the number of times we get the septic
pumped at $460 each. Had to do it 3 times since August. It isn't
just domestic water use, but heavy rains that saturate the leach
field. Can't do much about the weather, but can reduce the amount of
water we put in it. If we have two showers each day at our
2-gallon/min flow rate, that's 60 gallons, or 40% of our daily water
use. Eight flushes of two toilets at 3-1/2 gal/per is 56 gallons.
That's nearly 80% of our total. The rest being drinking water, dish
washer and clothes washer.

I have on order two Toto UltraMax toilets which will help on that
side. If we can limit our showers to 5-minutes each, that should help
there. We already have a front-load Maytag which is very conservative
of water use. We can try to stretch out our dishwasher use. That's
about all we can do without getting ridiculous. I am also looking
into a gray water system, but the requirements here are very
restrictive, and don't know if I want to deal with the red tape.

Not trying to save water. Trying to save our septic system.

If your septic system has needed to be pumped three times since August,
it's
beyond saving -- that sucker is toast. Methinks a new leach field is
in your
near future.

Others in our situation in our housing area have "saved" their leach
field by using a gray water system to give the leach area a "rest."

grey water is great if you intend on using it for watering and stuff, but
there is an odor to it and make sure you never, never drink it, even by
accident. i'd make sure you have a diff. color hose for it and even a sign
above the spigot so others will know it's not well or city water.

mike..........

"Dick" LeadWinger wrote in message
...


Others in our situation in our housing area have "saved" their leach
field by using a gray water system to give the leach area a "rest."

That looks like a good clue to me.
Also if your neighborhood is anything like mine, dig after dark.

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 00:25:34 GMT, "JerseyMike"
wrote:


Others in our situation in our housing area have "saved" their leach
field by using a gray water system to give the leach area a "rest."

grey water is great if you intend on using it for watering and stuff, but
there is an odor to it and make sure you never, never drink it, even by
accident. i'd make sure you have a diff. color hose for it and even a sign
above the spigot so others will know it's not well or city water.

mike..........


The regulations here are pretty strict. Can only be used for
irrigation. Must be contained on your property. Cannot pool. Must
have bypass back to sewer if clogged. Cannot be used for dishwasher,
kitchen sink or even washing machine if it is used for diapers.
System needs to be inspected, etc. etc. The rules go on and on.

Dick

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 20:09:03 -0500, "Kathy"
wrote:


"Dick" LeadWinger wrote in message
.. .


Others in our situation in our housing area have "saved" their leach
field by using a gray water system to give the leach area a "rest."

That looks like a good clue to me.
Also if your neighborhood is anything like mine, dig after dark.


:-)

"Dick" LeadWinger wrote in message
...
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 19:39:01 GMT, wrote:

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 12:29:07 -0700, "xrongor"
wrote:

zero?

low flow is considered 2-2.5 gallons a minute.

take that 2 gallons, guess how long for each shower, multiply it by the
number of showers in a month (estimate) and see how much of your water
consumption is showering. my guess: this isnt the problem.

bigger worries: leaky faucets. lots of laundry. toilets that take 3
gallons a flush.


Taking shorter showers can make a huge difference!

BB

Yes, it does. We are trying to unload the amount the leach field has
to dispose of each day to reduce the number of times we get the septic
pumped at $460 each. Had to do it 3 times since August. It isn't
just domestic water use, but heavy rains that saturate the leach
field. Can't do much about the weather, but can reduce the amount of
water we put in it. If we have two showers each day at our
2-gallon/min flow rate, that's 60 gallons, or 40% of our daily water

and here's your problem. That's 15 minutes per shower (or am I misreading
what you are saying). Take shorter showers. Two 5 minute showers = 20
gallons.


use. Eight flushes of two toilets at 3-1/2 gal/per is 56 gallons.

You are a good candidate for spending the money to convert to 1.6 gpf
toilets.
--
Peace,
BobJ



That's nearly 80% of our total. The rest being drinking water, dish
washer and clothes washer.

I have on order two Toto UltraMax toilets which will help on that
side. If we can limit our showers to 5-minutes each, that should help
there. We already have a front-load Maytag which is very conservative
of water use. We can try to stretch out our dishwasher use. That's
about all we can do without getting ridiculous. I am also looking
into a gray water system, but the requirements here are very
restrictive, and don't know if I want to deal with the red tape.

Not trying to save water. Trying to save our septic system.

Dick

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

I've been in hotels with those water miser shower heads. I've been
tempted to buy my own shower head for just about that reason.


I've done that!

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

You are fortunate. We spend more than 3 times that on water. But, as
I said earlier, saving water is not the issue. Saving the septic
system is the goal.

If you're system is really so far gone that you've needed to pump it
three times, you don't have a septic system anymore, you've got a
holding tank.

Dick wrote:
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 19:39:01 GMT, wrote:


On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 12:29:07 -0700, "xrongor"
wrote:


zero?

low flow is considered 2-2.5 gallons a minute.

take that 2 gallons, guess how long for each shower, multiply it by the
number of showers in a month (estimate) and see how much of your water
consumption is showering. my guess: this isnt the problem.

bigger worries: leaky faucets. lots of laundry. toilets that take 3
gallons a flush.


Taking shorter showers can make a huge difference!

BB


Yes, it does. We are trying to unload the amount the leach field has
to dispose of each day to reduce the number of times we get the septic
pumped at $460 each. Had to do it 3 times since August. It isn't
just domestic water use, but heavy rains that saturate the leach
field. Can't do much about the weather, but can reduce the amount of
water we put in it. If we have two showers each day at our
2-gallon/min flow rate, that's 60 gallons, or 40% of our daily water
use. Eight flushes of two toilets at 3-1/2 gal/per is 56 gallons.
That's nearly 80% of our total. The rest being drinking water, dish
washer and clothes washer.

I have on order two Toto UltraMax toilets which will help on that
side. If we can limit our showers to 5-minutes each, that should help
there. We already have a front-load Maytag which is very conservative
of water use. We can try to stretch out our dishwasher use. That's
about all we can do without getting ridiculous. I am also looking
into a gray water system, but the requirements here are very
restrictive, and don't know if I want to deal with the red tape.

Not trying to save water. Trying to save our septic system.

Dick
I do not know where you live but, having to have your septic pumped three times
since August suggests that your leach field has completely failed. I live in
North Eastern North Carolina in the Dismal Swamp and have never had to pump that
often except when the leach field started to go bad.

ChrisGW

William W. Plummer wrote:

xrongor wrote:

"William W. Plummer" wrote in message
...

Dick wrote:


In my quest to find why we use so much water for domestic needs, I
measured our shower head output this morning. It measured exactly
2-gallons in 1-minute. Seems high. What is the recommended flow rate
for water conservation?


The water conservation issue is a hoax. First, there is plenty of
water in the world. Second, more is being made every day as a result
of fossil fuel combustion. Third, using water in toilets and laundry
machines doesn't destroy it. Fourth, by putting water in your septic
system or sewer, you are returning it to nature. Evaporation, cloud
formation, precipitation, collection and use continue the cycle.



whether its a hoax or not, it still costs more to use more if they
meter your water. use less, save money. no science needed.


I typically use 10,000 gal per quarter at $3.00 per 1000 gal. $30 per
quarter. Conservation might cut this to $20 if I'm really lucky.

My guess is the fuel required to *heat* wasted hot water far outstrips
the cost of the water itself.
Wow! I pay $32.00 for 2 thousand gallons a month. If I go beyond that it goes
way up.

ChrisGW

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:42:54 -0500, ChrisGW
wrote:

Dick
I do not know where you live but, having to have your septic pumped three times
since August suggests that your leach field has completely failed. I live in
North Eastern North Carolina in the Dismal Swamp and have never had to pump that
often except when the leach field started to go bad.

ChrisGW

I'm not convinced yet that it is completely failed. We have had a
number of homes with septic systems in both cold and warm climates.
The problem started with heavy rains over several days which formed a
lake in our backyard. The water had no place to go but down which
sent it right down to the leach field. When the tank was pumped the
first two times, the excess water from the drain field just poured
back into the tank. Several hundred gallons of rainwater. With the
field so saturated with water, the output from the tank really had no
where to go. It may be though, and we are discussing the situation
with the Country and contractors. Our options at this point are few
(make that very expensive.)

Dick

I typically use 10,000 gal per quarter at $3.00 per 1000 gal. $30 per
quarter. Conservation might cut this to $20 if I'm really lucky.

My guess is the fuel required to *heat* wasted hot water far outstrips
the cost of the water itself.
Wow! I pay $32.00 for 2 thousand gallons a month. If I go beyond that it
goes way up.

ChrisGW

thats how ours works too. use more and you get nailed!

randy

How'd it work? You ever have a miserable thread and spend too long fighting
with it? Had a leak when you put it back on?

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Jim Yanik" . wrote in message
.. .
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

I've been in hotels with those water miser shower heads. I've been
tempted to buy my own shower head for just about that reason.


I've done that!

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

xrongor wrote:
I typically use 10,000 gal per quarter at $3.00 per 1000 gal. $30 per
quarter. Conservation might cut this to $20 if I'm really lucky.

My guess is the fuel required to *heat* wasted hot water far outstrips
the cost of the water itself.

Wow! I pay $32.00 for 2 thousand gallons a month. If I go beyond that it
goes way up.

ChrisGW


thats how ours works too. use more and you get nailed!

randy


But does your high rate include charges for sewer service? Mine doesn't
(yet).

William W. Plummer wrote:
xrongor wrote:

I typically use 10,000 gal per quarter at $3.00 per 1000 gal. $30
per quarter. Conservation might cut this to $20 if I'm really lucky.

My guess is the fuel required to *heat* wasted hot water far
outstrips the cost of the water itself.


Wow! I pay $32.00 for 2 thousand gallons a month. If I go beyond that
it goes way up.

ChrisGW



thats how ours works too. use more and you get nailed!

randy

But does your high rate include charges for sewer service? Mine doesn't
(yet).
No. We live out in the county and have our own septic tanks.

ChrisGW

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

How'd it work? You ever have a miserable thread and spend too long
fighting with it? Had a leak when you put it back on?


Had no problems.(only did it once,though.)
I used one of those $5 low-flow heads that output a narrow cone of water.
The entire shower head is only maybe an inch in diameter,it came with a
rubber gasket to seal against the pipe.You can hand-tighten it and no
leaks.Or did you mean the original head? I torqued that back down pretty
good. 8-)

I actually bought it in Beaverton,Oregon,at one of the local big-box
stores,along with a low cost channellock pliers,while out there for a 2
week training class. And well worth it.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net