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Humidistat turns on A/C?
Hello,
I live in a newly built house which has a forced-air natural gas heating system. Aside from the digital thermostat, there is also a humidistat mounted on the wall. I've been told that the humidistat controls a fan which exchanges humid indoor air for dryer outdoor air. I've also installed a central air conditioner over the summer (install done by an HVAC contractor). Given that it is winter, I'm noticing that with the humidistat turned on to control the humidity in the house, the air conditioner fan also turns on whenever the humidistat kicks in. Is it just the fan operating, or is the air conditioner unit actually operating and lowering the indoor temperature? I've also noticed that the refrigerant line that runs from the A/C unit into the furnance duct/coils get all covered with a layer of frost. Is this normal, or is it a wiring error of some sort by the HVAC contractor? |
#2
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Winterpegger wrote:
.... ....Given that it is winter, I'm noticing that with the humidistat turned on to control the humidity in the house, the air conditioner fan also turns on whenever the humidistat kicks in. Is it just the fan operating, or is the air conditioner unit actually operating and lowering the indoor temperature? I've also noticed that the refrigerant line that runs from the A/C unit into the furnance duct/coils get all covered with a layer of frost. Is this normal, or is it a wiring error of some sort by the HVAC contractor? Sounds buggered for winter-time operation. I'd think in the winter normally the humidstat would be controlling a humidifier to raise interior humidity and it should, of course, be tied into the fan so you don't dump water (mist) in a noncirculating system. But, the frosting makes it sound like the A/C may be running which is probably not what you want... |
#3
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#4
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"Bubba" wrote in message The humidistat should control a Humidifier. Nothing else. I cant see the air conditioning compressor working from here when the outdoor fan runs. Only you can tell us that. The A/C compressor nor the A/C outdoor fan should NOT be running in the winter NOR when the humidistat is turned up. Youve got some messed up wiring and obviously no one has checked out your system in your newly built house. You'd do yourself a favor by getting them or a Good hvac company back out and have them check everything over including settings, air flows, temps etc. etc. Bubba Depends. A humidistat is just that. It control humidity. While it would be very unusual for most of us to want to decrease the humidity in winter, there are certain applications to do just that. I know of a couple of printing plants where humidity control for the paper was more important than temperature control. It was not unusual to run the AC system and the heater in order to lower the humidity. Perhaps the OP lives in a very humid region. There is always an exception. |
#5
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Bubba wrote:
The humidistat should control a Humidifier. Nothing else. Wrong. It should control a DEhumidifier. Nick |
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#7
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On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 00:56:06 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote: "Bubba" wrote in message The humidistat should control a Humidifier. Nothing else. I cant see the air conditioning compressor working from here when the outdoor fan runs. Only you can tell us that. The A/C compressor nor the A/C outdoor fan should NOT be running in the winter NOR when the humidistat is turned up. Youve got some messed up wiring and obviously no one has checked out your system in your newly built house. You'd do yourself a favor by getting them or a Good hvac company back out and have them check everything over including settings, air flows, temps etc. etc. Bubba Depends. A humidistat is just that. It control humidity. While it would be very unusual for most of us to want to decrease the humidity in winter, there are certain applications to do just that. I know of a couple of printing plants where humidity control for the paper was more important than temperature control. It was not unusual to run the AC system and the heater in order to lower the humidity. Perhaps the OP lives in a very humid region. There is always an exception. Thats all very nice and well Eddy ............and Pink monkeys just might fly outta my ass but for all intents and purposes the OP is talking about his average system in his average newer home that some average idiot ****ed up the wiring in. Deal with it. He wasnt posting a trick question that you were going to get graded on. Bubba |
#8
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As some of my earlier posts describe, I have a humidity sensor set up to
connect on humidity rise, connected into my thermostat. That way, the A/C is truly functioning as a dehumidifier without regard to temperature, because I have the temperature setting at 73 degrees. Makes for a lot less dry throats at night, dry eyes in the morning. But certainly, the humidistat functions to control a whole-house humidifier in the winter, and the A/C is shut down. Bubba wrote in message ... On 26 Dec 2004 20:15:05 -0500, wrote: Bubba wrote: The humidistat should control a Humidifier. Nothing else. Wrong. It should control a DEhumidifier. Nick RE****in Idiot. |
#9
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"Bubba" wrote in message Thats all very nice and well Eddy ............and Pink monkeys just might fly outta my ass but for all intents and purposes the OP is talking about his average system in his average newer home that some average idiot ****ed up the wiring in. Deal with it. He wasnt posting a trick question that you were going to get graded on. Bubba I don't have to deal with anything. You made a statement. There could be an exception. You seem to have trouble dealing with that. Please be sure to post pictures of the pink monkeys. |
#10
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"As some of my earlier posts describe, I have a humidity sensor set up
to connect on humidity rise, connected into my thermostat. That way, the A/C is truly functioning as a dehumidifier without regard to temperature, because I have the temperature setting at 73 degrees. Makes for a lot less dry throats at night, dry eyes in the morning. But certainly, the humidistat functions to control a whole-house humidifier in the winter, and the A/C is shut down." If anyone has a clue as to what this means, please get back to us. You aren't the guy that installed Winterpegger's system, are you? |
#11
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And for the OP, something ain't right here. For home systems, the A/C
lowers the humidity in the summer while doing normal cooling. Variable speed systems can run the blower slower if necessary to more effectively remove humidity during days when not much cooling is required. In the winter, humidity can be added by a humidifier. The only time I've seen systems designed to bring in outside air is when a heat exchanger is included to minimize the energy loss. This allows outside air to be brought in to get fresh air into the house, typically for high energy efficiency homes that are tightly sealed. I've never heard of it being done for regulation of humidity. |
#12
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On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 03:37:30 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote: "Bubba" wrote in message Thats all very nice and well Eddy ............and Pink monkeys just might fly outta my ass but for all intents and purposes the OP is talking about his average system in his average newer home that some average idiot ****ed up the wiring in. Deal with it. He wasnt posting a trick question that you were going to get graded on. Bubba I don't have to deal with anything. You made a statement. There could be an exception. You seem to have trouble dealing with that. Please be sure to post pictures of the pink monkeys. No. I made a correct statement. You however, babbled some ridiculous jumbo about what clearly was not happening with his system. Learn how to interpret what a poster types. It makes for a good service person. Anything can have an exception but I try to stick to "real world" situations. Now bend over so I can get a snapshot of those monkeys. Bubba |
#13
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Winter,
It sounds to me as if your AC or it's connection to the humidistat may need adjustment. From your post it sounds as if you originally had a heater and a humidifier. You added AC recently and the installer wired this to the humidistat and thermostat. Now the humidifier is putting moisture into your dry winter air and this moisture is setting off the AC, which functions as a dehumidifier. For now go to your breaker box and turn off the AC. See what this does. Call the AC installer about fixing this, this is probably warranty work. Dave M. |
#14
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#15
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Hello All,
Thanks for the replies. The humidistat is mainly used to de-humidify the house. Where I'm living, the temperature gets quite cold and the houses are tightly sealed. So to avoid excess moisture from day-to-day activities such cooking, showering, even breathing, building up inside the house, dryer air is brought in through the central exhaust system to replace the more humid air inside the house. I do not have a heat exchanger. I believe this is normally done through only a central exhaust fan. But since this is the first time I've lived in a house with a central exhaust system, I wasn't sure if the humidistat was supposed to turn the A/C on as well. Is there any way that I can tell if the condenser is running? As previously posted, I can see the refridgerant line being frosted up as well as the A/C fan running. And I'm not sure if the cool air being pumped through the registers is simply the cold outside air or if it's as a result of the condenser working. Based on the above, do you still believe that this is a wiring error of some sort? |
#16
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This sounds whacko to me. First, there is the notion that you can
build up a lot of excess humidity that needs to be removed in even a relatively tightly sealed house in a cold winter climate. Activites like cooking and breathing add a minimal amount. The only significant amount on that list in my experience is showering and that humidity is usually only a problem only if it's confined to the bathroom. A simple bathroom fan run for a few mins fixes that. An average house has all the humidity sources on your list and the humidity is still low enough in cold winters that people add humidifiers to raise the humidity. Then, if you're lowering the humidity by bringing in cold winter outside air without a heat exchanger you're just throwing money out the window. It's going to take quite a bit of outside air to achieve any significant reduction in humidity. And why then, is you're housed tightly sealed? To tightly seal a house requires mork work, more cost, and then you put in a system that blows cold outside air into the house to reduce humidity? If the house is that tightly sealed, then the correct system is one with a heat exchanger and that is typically used to bring in fresh air, not lower humidity. |
#17
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wrote:
This sounds whacko to me. First, there is the notion that you can build up a lot of excess humidity that needs to be removed in even a relatively tightly sealed house in a cold winter climate. An absolutely airtight house will build up humidity in wintertime until water vapor condenses on windows. Winter humidification is a mistake. ...An average house has all the humidity sources on your list and the humidity is still low enough in cold winters that people add humidifiers to raise the humidity. No need for that, if the house is sufficiently airtight. ...if you're lowering the humidity by bringing in cold winter outside air without a heat exchanger you're just throwing money out the window. It's going to take quite a bit of outside air to achieve any significant reduction in humidity. How much? :-) Nick |
#18
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#19
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'Given that it is winter, I'm noticing that with the humidistat turned
on to control the humidity in the house, the air conditioner fan also turns on whenever the humidistat kicks in. Is it just the fan operating, or is the air conditioner unit actually operating and lowering the indoor temperature? I've also noticed that the refrigerant line that runs from the A/C unit into the furnance duct/coils get all covered with a layer of frost. Is this normal, or is it a wiring error of some sort by the HVAC contractor? ' Your (residential) A/C system is NOT set up for winter operation and you will damage the compressor in the unit. Dont run the a/c below outside temp of 60 f. You need to find out why the a/c is running in the winter. Not good. Dont delay. |
#20
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Humidistats usually do turn on the A/C. They assume it is summer. Where is all
the humidity coming from? |
#21
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Hi Greg, hope you are having a nice day On 27-Dec-04 At About 02:00:00, Greg wrote to All Subject: Humidistat turns on A/C? G From: (Greg) G Humidistats usually do turn on the A/C. They assume it is summer. G Where is all the humidity coming from? Wrong, a humidistat is for a humidifier. a dehumidistat is for dehumidification. a humidity control is for either. -= HvacTech2 =- ... "A friend of mine is in jail for counterfeiting pennies..."- s.w. ___ TagDude 0.92á+[DM] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++ spam protection measure, Please remove the 33 to send e-mail |
#22
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#23
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"HvacTech2" wrote in message ... Hi Greg, hope you are having a nice day On 27-Dec-04 At About 02:00:00, Greg wrote to All Subject: Humidistat turns on A/C? G From: (Greg) G Humidistats usually do turn on the A/C. They assume it is summer. G Where is all the humidity coming from? Wrong, a humidistat is for a humidifier. a dehumidistat is for dehumidification. a humidity control is for either. What's a hemistat do? |
#24
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"An absolutely airtight house will build up humidity in wintertime
until water vapor condenses on windows. Winter humidification is a mistake. " Yeah college boy, and how many of those does one typically find in the real world? Did the OP say he had an absolutely airtight house? You're lack of real world experience and common sense is obvious. "How much? :-)" Why don't you go solve some differential equations for us and let us know. |
#25
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You know, I used to think from your posts that you were just some kind
of academic, without practical experience or common sense, caught up in the wonders of saving energy, no matter how impractical. Now, it's quite obvious you're a complete idiot. The OP has a system where he claims to have a house that's tightly sealed. So, the house was built with considerable additonal cost to keep air out to save energy. Then, to control humidity, he says he has a system that just blows cold winter outside air in to the house, without a heat exchanger. And now you tell us that makes perfect sense to you. You, the guy who complains that adding a humidifier to a home wastes energy, has no problem with blowing cold air needlessly into a home. You might as well be opening windows in the middle of winter, it would be just as effective. And isn't it rather strange that if his system makes perfect sense, no one else on here, including HVAC pro's, can figure out what he's talking about? |
#26
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'What's a hemistat do? '
Arent they found on the new 2005 Dodge Hemi Pickup Trucks ?! |
#27
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On 12/28/2004 6:39 AM US(ET), Red Neckerson took fingers to keys, and
typed the following: "HvacTech2" wrote in message ... Hi Greg, hope you are having a nice day On 27-Dec-04 At About 02:00:00, Greg wrote to All Subject: Humidistat turns on A/C? G From: (Greg) G Humidistats usually do turn on the A/C. They assume it is summer. G Where is all the humidity coming from? Wrong, a humidistat is for a humidifier. a dehumidistat is for dehumidification. a humidity control is for either. What's a hemistat do? Perhaps you meant hemostat? An instrument to stop bleeding in blood vessels. (looks like a pair of scissors) -- Bill |
#28
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"willshak" wrote in message ... On 12/28/2004 6:39 AM US(ET), Red Neckerson took fingers to keys, and typed the following: "HvacTech2" wrote in message ... Hi Greg, hope you are having a nice day On 27-Dec-04 At About 02:00:00, Greg wrote to All Subject: Humidistat turns on A/C? G From: (Greg) G Humidistats usually do turn on the A/C. They assume it is summer. G Where is all the humidity coming from? Wrong, a humidistat is for a humidifier. a dehumidistat is for dehumidification. a humidity control is for either. What's a hemistat do? Perhaps you meant hemostat? An instrument to stop bleeding in blood vessels. (looks like a pair of scissors) Perhaps I meant what I said and Norm had the correct answer..... |
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wrote in message ups.com... You know, I used to think from your posts that you were just some kind of academic, without practical experience or common sense, caught up in the wonders of saving energy, no matter how impractical. Now, it's quite obvious you're a complete idiot. Better than being a complete a-hole...... |
#30
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wrote:
"An absolutely airtight house will build up humidity in wintertime until water vapor condenses on windows. Winter humidification is a mistake. " ...and how many of those does one typically find in the real world? Not many in the US, vs our Canadian friend's. That's another mistake. Another mistake is to imagine that it takes less heat energy to humidify a house than the energy saved by turning the thermostat down 2 F for equal comfort. That only works if you live in an airtight house without much insulation, eg an old oil tank in Barrow, Alaska :-) Winter humidification typically consumes 10X more energy than it "saves." Nick (again repeating obvious truths to people who will not listen.) |
#31
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wrote in message ... wrote: "An absolutely airtight house will build up humidity in wintertime until water vapor condenses on windows. Winter humidification is a mistake. " ...and how many of those does one typically find in the real world? Not many in the US, vs our Canadian friend's. That's another mistake. Another mistake is to imagine that it takes less heat energy to humidify a house than the energy saved by turning the thermostat down 2 F for equal comfort. That only works if you live in an airtight house without much insulation, eg an old oil tank in Barrow, Alaska :-) Winter humidification typically consumes 10X more energy than it "saves." Well, to stop the static shocks, bloddy noses and itchy skin, running my humidifier may cost me a total of an extra 50 cents per month. Well worth it if you ask me.... |
#32
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wrote in message Winter humidification typically consumes 10X more energy than it "saves." Nick (again repeating obvious truths to people who will not listen.) Personally, I don't give a damn about the added cost or the savings. What I do care about is comfort breathing, dry mouth, shrinking furniture, and static shocks. |
#33
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Hi Greg, hope you are having a nice day On 28-Dec-04 At About 01:00:06, Greg wrote to All Subject: Humidistat turns on A/C? G From: (Greg) G Wrong, a humidistat is for a humidifier. a dehumidistat is for G dehumidification. a humidity control is for either. G I guess it all depends on where you live. Around here nobody has ever G seen a humidifier and they call the control next to their thermostat G a humidistat. hmmm, not my fault that they don't know the proper terminology G It turns on the A/C So does Honeywell on the box for G a H46C I am holding in my hand (makes on increase). if you look at this link it shows an H46c box which clearly says dehumdifier controller. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...46594 295&rd= 1&ssPageName=WDVW -= HvacTech2 =- ... "I bought instant water but I don't know what to add..."- s.w. ___ TagDude 0.92á+[DM] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++ spam protection measure, Please remove the 33 to send e-mail |
#34
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Well, I had one of those devices installed next to my thermostat when I
upgraded my a/c unit years ago. However, I always leave it turned to "on" rather than fooling with specific humidity settings, for I have never found a way to set the thing to kick on my a/c without finding a terrifically hot house when I come home from work. Greg wrote: Wrong, a humidistat is for a humidifier. a dehumidistat is for dehumidification. a humidity control is for either. I guess it all depends on where you live. Around here nobody has ever seen a humidifier and they call the control next to their thermostat a humidistat. It turns on the A/C So does Honeywell on the box for a H46C I am holding in my hand (makes on increase). -- PRNole -------------------------------------- For email reply, please remove the 195 |
#35
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Hi Greg, hope you are having a nice day On 29-Dec-04 At About 02:07:05, Greg wrote to All Subject: Humidistat turns on A/C? G From: (Greg) G if you look at this link it shows an H46c box which clearly says G dehumdifier cont http://cgi.ebay.com G What some guy on Ebay says to sell an item is not as compelling as G what HONEYWELL writes on their box. Maybe you folks up north call a G humidistat that makes on increase a "dehumidistat" to help the labor G you hire but that does not make it a fact. Humidistats come in "make G on increase", "Make on decrease" or double throw with a connection G for either. I assume this "dehumidistat" is just a regional thing. G Maybe that is why AHJs keep a sharp eye on trades with out of state G tags. They speak a foreign language ;-) If you were to actually look you would see that honeywell printed it on the box. I have been in this trade for 30 years and it has always been called a dehumidistat. but you can call it whatever you want. -= HvacTech2 =- ... "A red spaceship on the monitor, your vileness." -- Calvin ___ TagDude 0.92á+[DM] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++ spam protection measure, Please remove the 33 to send e-mail |
#37
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if you look at this link it shows an H46c box which clearly says dehumdifier
controller. http://cgi.ebay.com What some guy on Ebay says to sell an item is not as compelling as what HONEYWELL writes on their box. Maybe you folks up north call a humidistat that makes on increase a "dehumidistat" to help the labor you hire but that does not make it a fact. Humidistats come in "make on increase", "Make on decrease" or double throw with a connection for either. I assume this "dehumidistat" is just a regional thing. Maybe that is why AHJs keep a sharp eye on trades with out of state tags. They speak a foreign language ;-) |
#38
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Not sure if you're replying to me or someone else in the thread, but if
you are responding to my post re. always leaving the humidistat "on" because any specific setting leaves the house too hot, you sure know how to hurt a guy...suggesting I'm a snowbird and all ( tsk, tsk). What is the matter with you?!? I happen to live year-round, thank you very much, in the land of the snowbird (SW Fla), and I'm even a Fla native, on top of that. Anyway, I do use a computerized Honewywell thermostat with 4 different settings for a/c and heat, so that it's always comfortable regardless of the time of day or night. Not sure how the humidistat was wired, though. It may well be in series. At any rate, it's always "on." Can it become more functional and efficient if I were to re-wire it parallel? PRNole + Greg wrote: There are 2 ways to wire a humidistat on an A/C unit. You can wire it in series with the thermostat or in parallel. It all depends in what is important to you. Usually they get wired in parallel around here, yours appears to be in series. They are usually for people who are snowbirds and not around in the summer. If you have your A/C set at a comfortable level you won't have humidity problems. It is for when you set the A/C to a high number and want the humidistat to control the A/C while you are away. That is the parallel setup. I am still not sure what the advantage of a series setup is but I see people doing it. -- PRNole -------------------------------------- For email reply, please remove the 195 |
#39
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Hi , hope you are having a nice day On 24-Jan-05 At About 01:17:38, wrote to All Subject: Humidistat turns on A/C? w From: w Whenever the humidistat turns on, it is turning on the A/C as well. w It seems to be backfeeding the Y terminal through the thermostat (the w Y and G terminals of the thermostat seem to be internally jumpered w together from my ohmmeter readings). Any more suggestions on this w problem? Do you have a humidifier? -= HvacTech2 =- ... "I'm moving to Mars next week, so if you have any boxes..."- s.w. ___ TagDude 0.92á+[DM] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++ spam protection measure, Please remove the 33 to send e-mail |
#40
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Hello Again to all,
After doing a bit of detective work, here's what additional information that I've gathered: The cenral air conditioner is a Ducane AC10B30, the thermostat is a White-Rogers thermostat (model 1F80-261), the furnace is a Keeprite high efficiency central forced air furnace (model PS-90), and the humidistat is a Broan knob-type switch which controls the furnace's blower through an air flow pressure switch. The R, W, G, and Y terminals of the thermostat is connected to the R, W, G, and Y terminals on the control board of the furnace, respectively. The humidistat pressure switch is connected to the R and G terminals of the control board on the furnace. And the central A/C is connected to the Y and C terminals of the control board. As shown below, disregard the periods, they're just used to line up the letters (sorry for the poor diagram): ......................Furnace Thermostat Humidistat-----------R--------- | ......................W--------- | Humidistat-----------G--------- | ......................Y----------+---A/C ......................C--------------A/C Whenever the humidistat turns on, it is turning on the A/C as well. It seems to be backfeeding the Y terminal through the thermostat (the Y and G terminals of the thermostat seem to be internally jumpered together from my ohmmeter readings). Any more suggestions on this problem? |
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