I am in the process of installing a handrail down to my basement. I need to
attach two of the rail mounts to a cement wall. I spent a few hours trying
to drill into the cement--- very slow. I am using a 7/16th drill bit from
TrueValue-- it is new and I haven't turned the tip "blue." I got one set of
holes done (I need to go in about 1 1/2", but it took forever. Are there
better drill bits out there that might speed the job? I have a conventional
corded drill, not a hammer drill.

"Pelorus" wrote in message
. com...
I am in the process of installing a handrail down to my basement. I need
to attach two of the rail mounts to a cement wall. I spent a few hours
trying to drill into the cement--- very slow. I am using a 7/16th drill
bit from TrueValue-- it is new and I haven't turned the tip "blue." I got
one set of holes done (I need to go in about 1 1/2", but it took forever.
Are there better drill bits out there that might speed the job? I have a
conventional corded drill, not a hammer drill.

Should not take that long. Either the bit is bad, the concrete
exceptional, or even the drill running in reverse (it happens). You can
rent a hammer drill to do the job in minutes.

If the masonry drill bit is ok, the concrete normal (poured concrete
foundation wall, 40 years old), and the drill spinning correctly---- could
the presence of stones (aggregate) in the cement be a problem? Can a
masonry drill deal with stones? Thanks for your help.


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. com...

"Pelorus" wrote in message
. com...
I am in the process of installing a handrail down to my basement. I need
to attach two of the rail mounts to a cement wall. I spent a few hours
trying to drill into the cement--- very slow. I am using a 7/16th drill
bit from TrueValue-- it is new and I haven't turned the tip "blue." I got
one set of holes done (I need to go in about 1 1/2", but it took forever.
Are there better drill bits out there that might speed the job? I have a
conventional corded drill, not a hammer drill.

Should not take that long. Either the bit is bad, the concrete
exceptional, or even the drill running in reverse (it happens). You can
rent a hammer drill to do the job in minutes.

Pelorus wrote:
I am in the process of installing a handrail down to my basement. I need to
attach two of the rail mounts to a cement wall. I spent a few hours trying
to drill into the cement--- very slow. I am using a 7/16th drill bit from
TrueValue-- it is new and I haven't turned the tip "blue." I got one set of
holes done (I need to go in about 1 1/2", but it took forever. Are there
better drill bits out there that might speed the job? I have a conventional
corded drill, not a hammer drill.


This TrueValue drill bit -- it is a masonry bit?

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR

"Pelorus" wrote in message
. com...
If the masonry drill bit is ok, the concrete normal (poured concrete
foundation wall, 40 years old), and the drill spinning correctly---- could the
presence of stones (aggregate) in the cement be a problem? Can a masonry
drill deal with stones? Thanks for your help.

I have never had any success with masonry bits in a standard drill (and I have
tried the expensive bits). As soon as the bit hits a piece of aggregate nothing
happens except that the bit is destroyed. Rent, buy, or borrow a hammer drill
instead.

Pelorus wrote:

I am in the process of installing a handrail down to my basement. I need to
attach two of the rail mounts to a cement wall. I spent a few hours trying
to drill into the cement--- very slow. I am using a 7/16th drill bit from
TrueValue-- it is new and I haven't turned the tip "blue." I got one set of
holes done (I need to go in about 1 1/2", but it took forever. Are there
better drill bits out there that might speed the job? I have a conventional
corded drill, not a hammer drill.



You should be able to drill it faster than that by hand with a "star
drill" and a small sledge hammer.

It sounds like you are using a metal-cutting bit instead of a masonary bit.

Bob

Pelorus wrote:
I am in the process of installing a handrail down to my basement. I need to
attach two of the rail mounts to a cement wall. I spent a few hours trying
to drill into the cement--- very slow. I am using a 7/16th drill bit from
TrueValue-- it is new and I haven't turned the tip "blue." I got one set of
holes done (I need to go in about 1 1/2", but it took forever. Are there
better drill bits out there that might speed the job? I have a conventional
corded drill, not a hammer drill.



Don't worry too much about bit speed, Just brace yourself and put as
much pressure as you can on the back of the drill motor. Try to keep the
motor just above bogging down with forward pressure. You can also try
drilling a pilot hole first maybe a 3/16
Dave

I use a regular variable speed drill on older concrete and standard masonry
bits work - slow on the rpm's, not bad for 3/16 & 1/4. Too fast just
heats/blues/polishes the edges of the cutters and if you don't keep it
straight it rounds the tips all that much faster. Masonry `Carbide Tipped
Bit` is designed to hammer & chip a hole, not really cut like a regular
twist bit.

Diamond tipped bits drill quick & work easily,,, hammer drill will bust em
quik too .

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 23:43:44 GMT, "Pelorus"
wrote:

I am in the process of installing a handrail down to my basement. I need to
attach two of the rail mounts to a cement wall. I spent a few hours trying
to drill into the cement--- very slow. I am using a 7/16th drill bit from
TrueValue-- it is new and I haven't turned the tip "blue." I got one set of
holes done (I need to go in about 1 1/2", but it took forever. Are there
better drill bits out there that might speed the job? I have a conventional
corded drill, not a hammer drill.

7/16 is a large diameter bit for some hammer drills, let alone a
conventional drill. Buy or rent a good quality hammer drill and have
the job done in no time.

I appreciate all the input. Sounds like I need to fined a hammer drill with
an appropriate masonry drill bit (yes I was using a masonry bit before).
Typical "simple" project evolves into weekend project.

Thanks to all.


"Alan" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 23:43:44 GMT, "Pelorus"
wrote:

I am in the process of installing a handrail down to my basement. I need
to
attach two of the rail mounts to a cement wall. I spent a few hours
trying
to drill into the cement--- very slow. I am using a 7/16th drill bit from
TrueValue-- it is new and I haven't turned the tip "blue." I got one set
of
holes done (I need to go in about 1 1/2", but it took forever. Are there
better drill bits out there that might speed the job? I have a
conventional
corded drill, not a hammer drill.

7/16 is a large diameter bit for some hammer drills, let alone a
conventional drill. Buy or rent a good quality hammer drill and have
the job done in no time.

Buy a Tapcon Set , use Tapcon, Bit is included, 5-15$. Tapcon may or
may not drill better , if it doesnt , rent a hammer drill.

Tapcon is best.

"Pelorus" wrote in message
. com...
I am in the process of installing a handrail down to my basement. I need
to attach two of the rail mounts to a cement wall. I spent a few hours
trying to drill into the cement--- very slow. I am using a 7/16th drill
bit from TrueValue-- it is new and I haven't turned the tip "blue." I got
one set of holes done (I need to go in about 1 1/2", but it took forever.
Are there better drill bits out there that might speed the job? I have a
conventional corded drill, not a hammer drill.


Only a couple of things I can suggest:

Get a hammer drill, or rent one.

Make sure you don't keep spinning the drill when you feel it stop going in.
This will "smoke" the bit, turning it blue. That is a sign of overheating.
Keep the rpms up, but not high when you feel it stop penetrating. You can
also spray some water into the hole.

Get a piece of cold rolled rod, or some steel that is very hard, but smaller
diameter than the hole. Sharpen it to a chisel point. When you feel the
bit hit something hard and stop penetrating, stop drilling. Put the smaller
rod in the hole, and hit it lightly with a hammer. This will help fracture
the piece of aggregate you have hit. If you don't have any cold rolled,
stainless, or an old center punch, sacrifice an old screwdriver. Cut off
the handle, as it will split. Just keep the point sharp.

A rotohammer will drill each hole in about ten seconds. A hammer drill will
do it, but not as fast.
A regular drill will do it, but you will probably burn up bits.
A powder charge will also do it, but may fracture some concrete.

If you anticipate doing any more of this kind of project, go get a hammer
drill. I have a Makita and a Metabo. They are okay, but I prefer a
Milwaukee rotohammer for serious drilling of holes larger than 3/8". Any
hammer drill will be better than a regular drill.

HTH - try the punch thing before buying a drill.

STeve

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 23:43:44 GMT, "Pelorus"
wrote:

I am in the process of installing a handrail down to my basement. I need to
attach two of the rail mounts to a cement wall. I spent a few hours trying
to drill into the cement--- very slow. I am using a 7/16th drill bit from
TrueValue-- it is new and I haven't turned the tip "blue." I got one set of
holes done (I need to go in about 1 1/2", but it took forever. Are there
better drill bits out there that might speed the job? I have a conventional
corded drill, not a hammer drill.

I agree with one other poster. Sometimes when you are drilling cement
with small stones,a STAR drill works good when used in conjunction
with a regular masonary drill. When your regular masonary drill hits a
stone and stops making progress,then use your STAR drill with a hammer
to break-up the stone before continueing with your electric
drill.Renting a Hammer drill is to expensive and over-kill for doing a
small job like yours! Good luck! been there done that!

I've used masonary bits, not all that epensive, for years for general
drilling in concrete with no problem. I've gone as large as 3/4" for with
my 19.2 volt cordless and get a good clean hole. It sounds like you are
trying to use a regular bit that would be for wood or metal. Ask for a
masonary bit at the hardware. They look a little different than a standard
bit.

I often use a particular lead anchor that you 'set' into the hole with a
special tool. It is theaded for a regular bolt. Since you setting the
anchor first rather than asking the bolt to pull it tight, they seem to hold
better.

"Pelorus" wrote in message
. com...
I am in the process of installing a handrail down to my basement. I need
to attach two of the rail mounts to a cement wall. I spent a few hours
trying to drill into the cement--- very slow. I am using a 7/16th drill
bit from TrueValue-- it is new and I haven't turned the tip "blue." I got
one set of holes done (I need to go in about 1 1/2", but it took forever.
Are there better drill bits out there that might speed the job? I have a
conventional corded drill, not a hammer drill.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 00:34:35 GMT, "Pelorus"
wrote:

If the masonry drill bit is ok, the concrete normal (poured concrete
foundation wall, 40 years old), and the drill spinning correctly----
could
the presence of stones (aggregate) in the cement be a problem? Can a
masonry drill deal with stones? Thanks for your help.


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
.com...

"Pelorus" wrote in message
. com...
I am in the process of installing a handrail down to my basement. I
need
to attach two of the rail mounts to a cement wall. I spent a few hours
trying to drill into the cement--- very slow. I am using a 7/16th
drill
bit from TrueValue-- it is new and I haven't turned the tip "blue." I
got
one set of holes done (I need to go in about 1 1/2", but it took
forever.
Are there better drill bits out there that might speed the job? I have
a
conventional corded drill, not a hammer drill.

Should not take that long. Either the bit is bad, the concrete
exceptional, or even the drill running in reverse (it happens). You
can
rent a hammer drill to do the job in minutes.




Why dont you get one of those tools that uses a 22cal shell to shoot a
fastner. They shoot nails and (I believe) a nail sort of thing with a
threaded end to put a nut on, like a stud (correct me if I am wrong, I
have only shot nails in the past). These things do the job. I have
fired them thru all sorts of stuff.

You could probably fasten tbe railing with JB Weld too, if you have a
way to hold the rail in place till it dries. JB Weld holds on anything
except those exposed to very hi temps like an enhaust manifold.

Of course a redneck would use duct tape

Mark

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 00:34:35 GMT, "Pelorus"
wrote:

If the masonry drill bit is ok, the concrete normal (poured concrete
foundation wall, 40 years old), and the drill spinning correctly----
could
the presence of stones (aggregate) in the cement be a problem? Can a
masonry drill deal with stones? Thanks for your help.


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
.com...

"Pelorus" wrote in message
. com...
I am in the process of installing a handrail down to my basement. I
need
to attach two of the rail mounts to a cement wall. I spent a few hours
trying to drill into the cement--- very slow. I am using a 7/16th
drill

Why dont you get one of those tools that uses a 22cal shell to shoot a
fastner. They shoot nails and (I believe) a nail sort of thing with a
threaded end to put a nut on, like a stud (correct me if I am wrong, I
have only shot nails in the past). These things do the job. I have
fired them thru all sorts of stuff.

Mark

Yes I tried all the modern technology, star drills, carbide drills, hardened
drills pilot holes,
and altogether $20+ worth of crap and no, you cannot drill treough concrete
with aggregrate. think of it as a sunk cost. start fresh. the .22 gun
works great.

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 03:37:40 GMT, "puttster" wrote:

"Pelorus" wrote in message
. com...
I am in the process of installing a handrail down to my basement. I
need
to attach two of the rail mounts to a cement wall. I spent a few hours
trying to drill into the cement--- very slow. I am using a 7/16th
drill

Why dont you get one of those tools that uses a 22cal shell to shoot a
fastner. They shoot nails and (I believe) a nail sort of thing with a
threaded end to put a nut on, like a stud (correct me if I am wrong, I
have only shot nails in the past). These things do the job. I have
fired them thru all sorts of stuff.

Mark

Yes I tried all the modern technology, star drills, carbide drills, hardened
drills pilot holes,
and altogether $20+ worth of crap and no, you cannot drill treough concrete
with aggregrate. think of it as a sunk cost. start fresh. the .22 gun
works great.

I have never had a problem in any type of concrete with an ordinary
masonry bit and a hammer drill.

puttster wrote:
snip

Yes I tried all the modern technology, star drills, carbide drills, hardened
drills pilot holes,
and altogether $20+ worth of crap and no, you cannot drill treough concrete
with aggregrate. think of it as a sunk cost. start fresh. the .22 gun
works great.


You can't??? I've been doing it for 35 years now, guess I'll have to stop.
Dave ;-)

puttster wrote:
Yes I tried all the modern technology, star drills, carbide drills,
hardened drills pilot holes,
and altogether $20+ worth of crap and no, you cannot drill treough
concrete with aggregrate. think of it as a sunk cost. start
fresh. the .22 gun works great.

This is good to know...you should publish your findings immediately.
The concrete industry simply *must* stop putting aggregate in their
concrete mix, nevermind that it is a defining element of "concrete".
And of course all the fools that have been drilling holes in concrete
must stop doing so!

(wonder if he hit a piece of rebar...)

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.05...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Rick Brandt wrote:
"Pelorus" wrote in message
. com...
If the masonry drill bit is ok, the concrete normal (poured concrete
foundation wall, 40 years old), and the drill spinning correctly---- could the
presence of stones (aggregate) in the cement be a problem? Can a masonry
drill deal with stones? Thanks for your help.

I have never had any success with masonry bits in a standard drill (and I have
tried the expensive bits). As soon as the bit hits a piece of aggregate nothing
happens except that the bit is destroyed. Rent, buy, or borrow a hammer drill
instead.

You can mannually peck with a conventional drill. Just tap it in and out
of the hole. It sucks compared to a real hammer drill, but it's better
than just using the regular drill if that's all you got.

But get a hammer drill: they're not that expensive and they work much much
better.



John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Ask me about joining the NRA.

Alan wrote:

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 03:37:40 GMT, "puttster" wrote:


"Pelorus" wrote in message
digy.com...

I am in the process of installing a handrail down to my basement. I

need

to attach two of the rail mounts to a cement wall. I spent a few hours
trying to drill into the cement--- very slow. I am using a 7/16th

drill


Why dont you get one of those tools that uses a 22cal shell to shoot a
fastner. They shoot nails and (I believe) a nail sort of thing with a
threaded end to put a nut on, like a stud (correct me if I am wrong, I
have only shot nails in the past). These things do the job. I have
fired them thru all sorts of stuff.

Mark

Yes I tried all the modern technology, star drills, carbide drills, hardened
drills pilot holes,
and altogether $20+ worth of crap and no, you cannot drill treough concrete
with aggregrate. think of it as a sunk cost. start fresh. the .22 gun
works great.


I have never had a problem in any type of concrete with an ordinary
masonry bit and a hammer drill.

When drilling concrete without a hammer drill, I find a star drill and
hammer work better than any type of bit in a regular drill. The ancient
method works pretty damn well!

I wonder if anyone having problems with a star drill was like the guy I
saw. He put the star drill into his electric drill! The damn thing got
hot and lost it's temper! I wonder why? ;-)

--
Tony