Hi everyone,

I finally got started on my workbench - an exact copy of the joiner's bench
from Sam Allen's workbench book.

Anyway, things went fine up until the masonite. I used 3/4" thick MDF
versus particleboard (as Allen stated in his book). I wanted the extra
weight. Anyway, I mounted the Record 52 1/2 front vise without too much
trouble and went ahead and prepared the contact cement and cut the masonite
edge trim pieces.

I used a light nap paint roller to apply the contact cement, which was messy
as hell (I'd never used it before). It went on the surfaces fine, however,
so I didn't think there was anything to worry about. I went inside for
about 20 minutes and came back out and checked the pieces. The masonite
looked like I expected - a tacky coating, that didn't come off on your
fingers. I think "great, it's time to go for it", but when I check the MDF
benchtop, it looks as though I didn't put any cement on it at all. CRAP!

So, a few questions. First, I'm pretty sure my problem was using a
water-based product on MDF. Honestly, I didn't even check the contact
cement I used, but just from my results it seems obvious that that's the
problem. So, do I need to do anything to the bench surface now in order to
continue with the project? I'm considering just using regular titebond now,
and some new pieces of masonite. Will this be problematic? Would it be
better to try to find some organic-based contact cement and go with that?

I'm pretty annoyed at myself, as I've been strapped for shop time lately and
this really brought my bench making day to a screeching halt.

Thanks for your help,

Mike

MDF needs two coats of contact cement.


--
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On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 00:25:49 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
wrote:

First, I'm pretty sure my problem was using a
water-based product on MDF.

As contact cement, I use Evostick 528 - usually sold for
leatherworking. It's getting hard to find, but damn the glue
sniffers, I want to use the real stuff that works !

If you've used a water based contact cement on MDF, I think the usual
technique is to give it one coat, let it dry completely, then treat it
as a primer and apply a second coat to do the actual gluing.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

I use MDF and formica all the time - use the first coat as a primer - then
do a second coat.
No problems.


"Mike in Mystic" wrote in message
. com...
Hi everyone,

I finally got started on my workbench - an exact copy of the joiner's
bench
from Sam Allen's workbench book.

Anyway, things went fine up until the masonite. I used 3/4" thick MDF
versus particleboard (as Allen stated in his book). I wanted the extra
weight. Anyway, I mounted the Record 52 1/2 front vise without too much
trouble and went ahead and prepared the contact cement and cut the
masonite
edge trim pieces.

I used a light nap paint roller to apply the contact cement, which was
messy
as hell (I'd never used it before). It went on the surfaces fine,
however,
so I didn't think there was anything to worry about. I went inside for
about 20 minutes and came back out and checked the pieces. The masonite
looked like I expected - a tacky coating, that didn't come off on your
fingers. I think "great, it's time to go for it", but when I check the
MDF
benchtop, it looks as though I didn't put any cement on it at all. CRAP!

So, a few questions. First, I'm pretty sure my problem was using a
water-based product on MDF. Honestly, I didn't even check the contact
cement I used, but just from my results it seems obvious that that's the
problem. So, do I need to do anything to the bench surface now in order
to
continue with the project? I'm considering just using regular titebond
now,
and some new pieces of masonite. Will this be problematic? Would it be
better to try to find some organic-based contact cement and go with that?

I'm pretty annoyed at myself, as I've been strapped for shop time lately
and
this really brought my bench making day to a screeching halt.

Thanks for your help,

Mike

Thanks for the replies everyone. Will it matter if I wait an extended
period of time before reapplying the contact cement?

I might have to wait as long as next Saturday to return to the project.

Thanks again,

Mike

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 00:25:49 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
wrote:

First, I'm pretty sure my problem was using a
water-based product on MDF.

As contact cement, I use Evostick 528 - usually sold for
leatherworking. It's getting hard to find, but damn the glue
sniffers, I want to use the real stuff that works !

If you've used a water based contact cement on MDF, I think the usual
technique is to give it one coat, let it dry completely, then treat it
as a primer and apply a second coat to do the actual gluing.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

ah, they beat me to it! I KNEW this one, Mike!

2 coats: been there done the MDF lam thingy. MDF is a real "sucker".

dave

Mike in Mystic wrote:

Hi everyone,

I finally got started on my workbench - an exact copy of the joiner's bench
from Sam Allen's workbench book.

Anyway, things went fine up until the masonite. I used 3/4" thick MDF
versus particleboard (as Allen stated in his book). I wanted the extra
weight. Anyway, I mounted the Record 52 1/2 front vise without too much
trouble and went ahead and prepared the contact cement and cut the masonite
edge trim pieces.

I used a light nap paint roller to apply the contact cement, which was messy
as hell (I'd never used it before). It went on the surfaces fine, however,
so I didn't think there was anything to worry about. I went inside for
about 20 minutes and came back out and checked the pieces. The masonite
looked like I expected - a tacky coating, that didn't come off on your
fingers. I think "great, it's time to go for it", but when I check the MDF
benchtop, it looks as though I didn't put any cement on it at all. CRAP!

So, a few questions. First, I'm pretty sure my problem was using a
water-based product on MDF. Honestly, I didn't even check the contact
cement I used, but just from my results it seems obvious that that's the
problem. So, do I need to do anything to the bench surface now in order to
continue with the project? I'm considering just using regular titebond now,
and some new pieces of masonite. Will this be problematic? Would it be
better to try to find some organic-based contact cement and go with that?

I'm pretty annoyed at myself, as I've been strapped for shop time lately and
this really brought my bench making day to a screeching halt.

Thanks for your help,

Mike

"Mike in Mystic" wrote in message
om...
Thanks for the replies everyone. Will it matter if I wait an extended
period of time before reapplying the contact cement?

I might have to wait as long as next Saturday to return to the project.

Thanks again,

Mike

Keep it covered and clean, and re-apply. No problem.
--
Jim in NC

"Mike in Mystic" wrote in message
. com...
Hi everyone,

I finally got started on my workbench - an exact copy of the joiner's
bench
from Sam Allen's workbench book.

Anyway, things went fine up until the masonite. I used 3/4" thick MDF
versus particleboard (as Allen stated in his book). I wanted the extra
weight. Anyway, I mounted the Record 52 1/2 front vise without too much
trouble and went ahead and prepared the contact cement and cut the
masonite
edge trim pieces.

I used a light nap paint roller to apply the contact cement, which was
messy
as hell (I'd never used it before). It went on the surfaces fine,
however,
so I didn't think there was anything to worry about. I went inside for
about 20 minutes and came back out and checked the pieces. The masonite
looked like I expected - a tacky coating, that didn't come off on your
fingers. I think "great, it's time to go for it", but when I check the
MDF
benchtop, it looks as though I didn't put any cement on it at all. CRAP!

So, a few questions. First, I'm pretty sure my problem was using a
water-based product on MDF. Honestly, I didn't even check the contact
cement I used, but just from my results it seems obvious that that's the
problem. So, do I need to do anything to the bench surface now in order
to
continue with the project? I'm considering just using regular titebond
now,
and some new pieces of masonite. Will this be problematic? Would it be
better to try to find some organic-based contact cement and go with that?

I'm pretty annoyed at myself, as I've been strapped for shop time lately
and
this really brought my bench making day to a screeching halt.

Thanks for your help,

Mike


MDF frequently needs 2 or 3 coats. Put more on. The can should say how
long it can sit before you need to reapply to use it. In too long, put on
another coat and stick it together.

I usually use a scrap of laminate, or other such thing as a squeegee to
apply contact cement. Disposable, and thin coats. Thin is what you want.
--
Jim in NC

Reapply to BOTH pieces using the same type of contact cement. The new CC
will reactivate the old. The MDF may even need 2 extra coats so watch for
that.

Ronnie
"Mike in Mystic" wrote in message
om...
Thanks for the replies everyone. Will it matter if I wait an extended
period of time before reapplying the contact cement?

I might have to wait as long as next Saturday to return to the project.

Thanks again,

Mike

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 00:25:49 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
wrote:

First, I'm pretty sure my problem was using a
water-based product on MDF.

As contact cement, I use Evostick 528 - usually sold for
leatherworking. It's getting hard to find, but damn the glue
sniffers, I want to use the real stuff that works !

If you've used a water based contact cement on MDF, I think the usual
technique is to give it one coat, let it dry completely, then treat it
as a primer and apply a second coat to do the actual gluing.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

Mike in Mystic wrote:

First, I'm pretty sure my problem was using a
water-based product on MDF.

I tried using the water-based contact cement once, on some formica
(plywood substrate). Even with multiple coats, it didn't bond - I could
pull it apart by hand. I switched to the solvent based stuff and it
worked perfectly.

This was perhaps 5 years ago - maybe the manufacturers have improved the
product since then, but after that experience I won't even try it.

The solvent based products do require some care to use - the vapors are
explosive and unpleasant to breathe, so ventilate well and don't work
near any ignition sources. I'd normally prefer the safer product but
not if it doesn't work!

-Brett

Yeah, I like the solvent based stuff, but work with the doors open AND
wear a respirator. It sure sticks well! The fumes make me nauseous.

dave

Brett B. Bonner wrote:

Mike in Mystic wrote:

First, I'm pretty sure my problem was using a
water-based product on MDF.


I tried using the water-based contact cement once, on some formica
(plywood substrate). Even with multiple coats, it didn't bond - I could
pull it apart by hand. I switched to the solvent based stuff and it
worked perfectly.

This was perhaps 5 years ago - maybe the manufacturers have improved the
product since then, but after that experience I won't even try it.

The solvent based products do require some care to use - the vapors are
explosive and unpleasant to breathe, so ventilate well and don't work
near any ignition sources. I'd normally prefer the safer product but
not if it doesn't work!

-Brett

Bay Area Dave writes:

Yeah, I like the solvent based stuff, but work with the doors open AND
wear a respirator. It sure sticks well! The fumes make me nauseous.

Nausea isn't the real problem. Too much exposure to the stuff and it eats your
liver.

Charlie Self
"Politics: A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The
conduct of public affairs for private advantage. " Ambrose Bierce

That's why I wear the respirator! I know it's hard on your organs.
I'll never forget the day I stupidly applied Deft without a respirator.
I was outside and the fumes really got to me. Brushing the stuff on
the inside of a cabinet was unbearable. That's the last time I'll allow
myself to be exposed to that strong of a chemical like that. What IS it
with Deft? It's the most noxious coating I've used so far? I've been
around plenty of other bad chemicals; I'm talking for woodworking, is
there a clear finish any nastier than Deft?

dave

Charlie Self wrote:

Bay Area Dave writes:


Yeah, I like the solvent based stuff, but work with the doors open AND
wear a respirator. It sure sticks well! The fumes make me nauseous.


Nausea isn't the real problem. Too much exposure to the stuff and it eats your
liver.

Charlie Self
"Politics: A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The
conduct of public affairs for private advantage. " Ambrose Bierce

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 18:01:40 GMT, Bay Area Dave
wrote:

What IS it
with Deft? It's the most noxious coating I've used so far? I've been
around plenty of other bad chemicals; I'm talking for woodworking, is
there a clear finish any nastier than Deft?


Deft is pretty much nitro lacquer formulated for brushing.

Two part polyester urethanes and some of the other epoxy coatings are
far worse.

Try some radiation cured epoxy acrylate - yum.


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

does an organic respirator protect one from the 2 part poly ureas and
epoxys?

dave

Tom Watson wrote:

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 18:01:40 GMT, Bay Area Dave
wrote:


What IS it
with Deft? It's the most noxious coating I've used so far? I've been
around plenty of other bad chemicals; I'm talking for woodworking, is
there a clear finish any nastier than Deft?



Deft is pretty much nitro lacquer formulated for brushing.

Two part polyester urethanes and some of the other epoxy coatings are
far worse.

Try some radiation cured epoxy acrylate - yum.


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 18:55:53 GMT, Bay Area Dave
wrote:

does an organic respirator protect one from the 2 part poly ureas and
epoxys?

"*RECOMMENDED RESPIRATOR:
Where the neat test chemical is weighed and diluted, wear a
NIOSH-
approved half face respirator equipped with an organic vapor/acid gas
cartridge (specific for organic vapors, HCl, acid gas and SO2) with a
dust/mist filter."

from:

http://ntp-db.niehs.nih.gov/NTP_Repo...n106-90-1.html


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Bay Area Dave writes:

Yeah, I like the solvent based stuff, but work with the doors open AND
wear a respirator. It sure sticks well! The fumes make me nauseous.

Nausea isn't the real problem. Too much exposure to the stuff and it eats
your
liver.

What liver? ;-)
SH