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Default Kenmore front-loading washer leaks

Hi all,

I have a 3.5 year old Kenmore front-loading washing machine,
model number 417.41042000 or 41042, that has been leaking water for
almost a year now. I've decided it might be time to work on it.

The tub on this washer has two halves with a seal in the middle.
When the washer is in a spin cycle, and only when there are
clothes in it (to make it vibrate some), I can see some water
dribbling out from the joint between the two halves of the tub
on the right-hand side. Since this is the side where the
motor speed control unit is, I'd like to prevent that getting
shorted out. (At the moment, the quantity of water coming
out is not enough that I worry about that yet.)

I'm thinking of taking the washer apart and replacing the seal.
Sears.com has a replacement seal for $9.49, which doesn't sound
too bad, but I'm wondering if there are any tricks to this
repair. It looks like I need to take off the top and back
panels, unhook everything from the tub assembly, turn it onto
its back, and then lift off the cabinet. Am I headed for trouble
doing this myself?

Thanks,
John

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jeff
 
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wrote in message oups.com...

Hi,

Hi all,

I have a 3.5 year old Kenmore front-loading washing machine,
model number 417.41042000 or 41042, that has been leaking water for
almost a year now. I've decided it might be time to work on it.


The tub on this washer has two halves with a seal in the middle.
When the washer is in a spin cycle, and only when there are
clothes in it (to make it vibrate some), I can see some water
dribbling out from the joint between the two halves of the tub
on the right-hand side. Since this is the side where the
motor speed control unit is, I'd like to prevent that getting
shorted out. (At the moment, the quantity of water coming
out is not enough that I worry about that yet.)


Have you tried to tighten the tub bolts?

I'm thinking of taking the washer apart and replacing the seal.
Sears.com has a replacement seal for $9.49, which doesn't sound
too bad, but I'm wondering if there are any tricks to this
repair. It looks like I need to take off the top and back
panels, unhook everything from the tub assembly, turn it onto
its back, and then lift off the cabinet.


Am I headed for trouble
doing this myself?


Yes.

Boot is undone from the front panal, remove or undo drive motor, shock
pins, WLC switch/hose, drain hoses and lift of off the springs and
remove the whole assembly out through the back of the washer. Then the
two 1/2's can be seperated to replace that seal.

Not overly difficult but *very* time consuming.

jeff.
Appliance Repair Aid
http://www.applianceaid.com/
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I did try tightening some of the tub bolts, but I couldn't reach
the ones at the sides very well because of the tight clearance
with the cabinet side. The bolts I could reach were not very
tight, so it does seem like a good idea to give torquing them
down with a flexible-drive tool a try.

Thanks for the reply---that method does sound more
straightforward. I had read the "flip it on its back" method
somewhere, though, so I guess I thought that was the way
people do it.

Best regards,
John

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Percival P. Cassidy
 
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I hope the leakage hasn't resulted in damage to the bearings.

We have a 417.41142000, made by Frigidaire and perhaps a little newer
than yours but maybe substantially the same. The service guy was here to
fix it last week (crapped-out controller module replaced free under
maintenance contract; would have been $330 for part and labor otherwise).

He said one problem with these is water getting into the bearings, often
caused by using regular detergent instead of the low-sudsing
High-Efficiency kind. The remedy is to replace the whole
tub/shaft/bearing assembly (because the bearings are not sold
separately), which is a two-man two-hour job costing $800 for parts and
labor -- in which case you'd be better off buying a new machine.

Hope that's not what you're in for. Happy Thanksgiving.

Perce


On 11/24/04 09:22 pm tossed the following
ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

I have a 3.5 year old Kenmore front-loading washing machine,
model number 417.41042000 or 41042, that has been leaking water for
almost a year now. I've decided it might be time to work on it.

The tub on this washer has two halves with a seal in the middle.
When the washer is in a spin cycle, and only when there are
clothes in it (to make it vibrate some), I can see some water
dribbling out from the joint between the two halves of the tub
on the right-hand side. Since this is the side where the
motor speed control unit is, I'd like to prevent that getting
shorted out. (At the moment, the quantity of water coming
out is not enough that I worry about that yet.)

I'm thinking of taking the washer apart and replacing the seal.
Sears.com has a replacement seal for $9.49, which doesn't sound
too bad, but I'm wondering if there are any tricks to this
repair. It looks like I need to take off the top and back
panels, unhook everything from the tub assembly, turn it onto
its back, and then lift off the cabinet. Am I headed for trouble
doing this myself?

  #5   Report Post  
Mad Mac
 
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There have been issues both with the two halves leaking and the bearing
leak. Both are nasty, time-intensive repairs involving an almost total
teardown of the machine.

The fact that you've managed to identify the level of disassembly
required to replace the seal gives me confidence that you'll be able to
do it. Don't forget to disconnect the shock absorbers from the tub -
best way to do this is to put a socket over the pointed end of the nylon
"pin" that holds them in and tap gently, this should get them out.

Good luck!


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Happy Segfault
 
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Thanks to all who replied! About the rear seal---I've seen
some pictures on the web of a similar unit which had that seal
fail and cause the bearing to corrode. Not a pretty sight!
Knock on wood, I'm pretty sure I'm only getting water leaking
out of the other seal between the two tub halves. The rear area
stays nice and dry while the water spritzes out of the problem
seal.

Other than the leak, the washer runs great---very smooth and
quiet. We've been using regular liquid detergent in it, but
only about 3/8" in the cup each load. Looking in the window,
I don't see any evidence of over-sudsing, and clothes come out
clean. A bottle of detergent sure goes a long way, too!

I'd have started working on it this afternoon, but my 8.5 year
old Lift-Master Professional garage door opener had turned a
plastic gear into powder. Just finished installing a new Genie
screw-drive unit.

John
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Junior Member
 
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I really appreciate your time posting this information. We have the same machine 4104200 it is 3.5 yrs old and has just started leaking. It is also leaking along the middle drum seam on the right hand side. Tightening the bolts did not fix the problem.

I will order a new gasket and install it - It looks like a fairly time consuming to take off all of the springs, shocks and motor. Taking out the entire drum seems like a good idea - my first guess was to take off just the back half but like the idea of removing the drum and being able to better access to the nuts plus the ability to use a torque wrench.

I am really impressed with the construction of the machine - the designers went to a lot of trouble to isolate the vibration and to re-enforce wiring harnesses and hoses that are effected by the vibration. It has been a long time since I have taken something a part and was so impressed by the simple but well thoughout design.

Thanks again,
Bill G.

PS I hope the new gasket will last longer than 3.5 yrs.
  #8   Report Post  
Junior Member
 
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I too have this machine. It too is about 3.5 years old and leaking from the same area for the past four months.

I will tighten the bolts as recommended here, but I'm not hopeful.

For those doing this repair, please keep us posted.

For those professionals here, any idea what this repair should cost?
  #9   Report Post  
Appliance Repair Aid
 
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Hi,

**For those professionals here, any idea what this repair should
cost?**

To replace the seal between the back and front 1/2's of the outer tank?
If yes, a couple hundred dollares easy as this is a time consuming
call.

jeff.
Appliance Repair Aid
http://www.applianceaid.com/

  #10   Report Post  
Appliance Repair Aid
 
Posts: n/a
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Hi,

**For those professionals here, any idea what this repair should
cost?**

To replace the seal between the back and front 1/2's of the outer tank?
If yes, a couple hundred dollares easy as this is a time consuming
call.

jeff.
Appliance Repair Aid
http://www.applianceaid.com/



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Appliance Repair Aid
 
Posts: n/a
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Hi,

**For those professionals here, any idea what this repair should
cost?**

To replace the seal between the back and front 1/2's of the outer tank?
If yes, a couple hundred dollares easy as this is a time consuming
call.

jeff.
Appliance Repair Aid
http://www.applianceaid.com/

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Junior Member
 
Posts: 3
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Jeff -- thanks for the estimate.

I did tighten the bolts -- it seemed to slow the leaks considerably, but it's still dripping.

I'm ordering the part today and hope to do the fix over Christmas break.

Is there a good "Chilton" manual for washing machine repairs? Even an exploded diagram would be helpful.

I know I can get the thing apart, but I'm worried about reassembling it in the correct order. I will use a digital camera to document the disassembly, which should help.

Oh -- are there any capacitors in this thing that can discharge after it's been unplugged?
  #13   Report Post  
Appliance Repair Aid
 
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G'day,

**Is there a good "Chilton" manual for washing machine repairs? Even an
exploded diagram would be helpful**

A good manual....

http://www.repairclinic.com/referral.asp?R=153&N=659075

Some parts breakdowns....

http://www3.sears.com/Paul/model_sea...m=417.41042000
jeff.
Appliance Repair Aid
http://www.applianceaid.com/

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Junior Member
 
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Jeff -- thanks for those links!

I downloaded the Sears diagrams and parts lists into a single printable Word document if anyone else needs it.

If any other amateurs undertake this repair before I can get to it later this month, I would appreciate any tips.

Cheers.
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Junior Member
 
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[quote=Appliance Repair Aid]G'day,
Jeff,

Do you treat the nuts or gaskets with anything? It seems that all of us were able to tighten the nuts which would indicate that they had come lose - after waching it run, you can see the drum goes through some increadable vibrations with every load.

On some older plumbing I was told to cover the seals with vasoline - Is it neccessary to do something like this to the gasket?

Thanks,
Bill G.


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Appliance Repair Aid
 
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billg wrote:
Appliance Repair Aid Wrote:
G'day,
Jeff,

Do you treat the nuts or gaskets with anything? It seems that all

of
us were able to tighten the nuts which would indicate that they had
come lose - after waching it run, you can see the drum goes through
some increadable vibrations with every load.

On some older plumbing I was told to cover the seals with vasoline

- Is
it neccessary to do something like this to the gasket?

Thanks,
Bill G.



--
billg


Hi,

The gasket needs nothing, but a little lock tight on the bolts doesn't
hurt. Most that we see are a bad bearing so we are changing the back
1/2 of the outer tank anyay = nice clean/tight holes for the bolts.

http://www.repairclinic.com/referral.asp?R=153&N=936915
O-Ring between front and rear outer tubs.
jeff.
Appliance Repair Aid
http://www.applianceaid.com/

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Junior Member
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senorgrand
If any other amateurs undertake this repair before I can get to it later this month, I would appreciate any tips.
Just completed the repair -where did the day go? I found the repair to be pretty straightforward but time consuming (I believe this is exactly what Jeff said at the beginning of the thread). Following are some notes – use at your own risk, as I have no idea as to what I’m doing.

First, you can remove the panel on the front bottom of the washer to verify where the water is coming from – just hope it is a lose hose and not the tub seal. Next the top comes off with just four additional screws. What a great design – allowing light in from the top really makes it easy to see what you are doing. On my washer one of the lid brackets is held in place with a screw and the other is loose – seems strange.

1) Get several containers for all of the screws - I think the back has about 20 screws and the drum has 24 lag bolts (approx).

2) Remove the belt and motor before taking out the drum - you will gain additional clearance. And reduce the weight - hardly, wait till you see the cement ring on the front of the drum. After removing 4 lag bolts, the motor should slide towards the front of the washer - mine required a little persuading. It went back on like a dream.

3) Make use of wooden blocks - to pivot the drum so you do not have to lift all of the weight while un-assembling and re-assembling

4) Take the money you are saving and buy the pro-mechanics set of standard/metric sockets, pivots, and extensions. Also, a low speed high torque drill is great to drive all of the screws and lag bolts. I used several sizes of extensions, pivots and the drill extensively to drive most of the screws and bolts. “A job that does not require a new tool – is not a job worth doing”

5) There may be a better way to separate the drum from the cabinet but I very carefully cut the glue that holds the gasket inside the washer door – I used a straight razor, typically used for scraping. There is a clever clamp that holds this gasket to the soap dispenser – I’m sure there is a flip of the wrist technique to re-install the clamp, but I sure did not know it. It can quickly be opened with a screwdriver but I had a hard time putting it back on. I did not put any glue on after I re-installed the gasket. I was very careful not to damage the gasket as it looks really expensive and hard to replace.

6) When you remove the hose to the pump – water will go everywhere. I had to remove the “air chamber” (43 on the diagram) in order to remove one of the shock towers – I found it very difficult to re-install this hose. Take your time and double check that it is on and the hose clamp is super tight – because it will come off and water will go everywhere. I ended up breaking the pin that held the air chamber in place and re-attached it with a zip-tie – I think it would put unwanted force onto the other parts if not held securely.

7) I found that the pin that holds the shock towers were easier to take out and install by pushing (not pounding). I used a socket (as Jeff recommended) to cover the end but still needed to push the retaining pin in with a small screwdriver. Make sure when putting the pins back in that you position them such that you can get to the retaining pin (if it had been towards the drum – I would not have been able to release it with a screw driver.
I put several wooded blocks under the drum before removing the shocks. After removing the shocks I was able rock the drum onto more blocks and un-tensioned the springs. I then removed the springs. I went in reverse order to re-install the springs and then the shock towers.

8) I talked to an ingenious ME about the lag bolts that hold the two drum halves together. He said that the bolts should stay tight, as they were probably self-threading and that the plastic would “cold flow” around the bolt. It is the industry standard not to use any additional hardware with this configuration. He said not to use lock tight as it could react with the plastic. Lastly, if they loosen a wavey washer could be used to re-enforce the connection. A flat washer should be installed first as the wavey washer by itself would dig into the plastic. I used a torque wrench and tighten nuts in pairs on opposite sides of the drum – I tighten to 132 (I think inch/pounds).

The hose on the top of the drum that goes to the soap dispenser comes out of the dispenser easily and re-installs easily too - perhaps, this is a good place to start the removal process.

I will be interested to see what additional notes are added – to the thread. I really appreciate all your great advice and encouragement.
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This thread is somewhat old, but it helped me complete the repairs. The bearings in my washer were so shot, I couldn't hear myself think during spin cycle.

I actually bought the back half of the drum from Sears, it was the cheapest that I could find. I bought a belt as well since I knew the project would suck, and I didn't want to have to do work over again.

The instructions posted here were good, so thank you guys. The biggest pains of the repair were unstacking the dryer and putting this one hose back on somewhere down near the pump (I forget which one now, but I do remember swearing a lot and then going to make a stiff drink). I thought the entire drum assembly would be heavier, but it was easy enough to grab and lift out. It did take a few evenings after work to complete, but then again, I did take a bit of time to clean up the back of the inner drum with the pressure washer and some chemicals to get all the gunk off, and also used some 400 grit wet sandpaper to clean up the spindle especially where the seal seats. This is a good idea for anyone doing this repair. I spread a very thin layer of good synthetic grease on the spindle for good measure.

I figure I saved about 400 bucks. One thing I like about Sears is that I know I'll be able to get parts thru them for practically forever. How do I know??? I bought parts for a 30 year old radial arm saw several years ago. Got everything I needed in 3 days.

What is stupid is that this set is around 5 years old and this is the 2nd major repair. The first was the electronic control board that friggin burned up. Fortunately it was still under warranty by 2 days.

Thanks again for the great information!!!

Mike
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Appliance Repair Aid
 
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Default Kenmore front-loading washer leaks

Thankx for letting us know....that should help others!

jeff.
Appliance Repair Aid
http://www.applianceaid.com/

  #20   Report Post  
Art
 
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Default Kenmore front-loading washer leaks

Unfortunately Sears and Kmart have merged so you can expect Sears parts dept
to deteriorate in my opinion.


"mike88gt" wrote in message
...

This thread is somewhat old, but it helped me complete the repairs. The
bearings in my washer were so shot, I couldn't hear myself think during
spin cycle.

I actually bought the back half of the drum from Sears, it was the
cheapest that I could find. I bought a belt as well since I knew the
project would suck, and I didn't want to have to do work over again.

The instructions posted here were good, so thank you guys. The biggest
pains of the repair were unstacking the dryer and putting this one hose
back on somewhere down near the pump (I forget which one now, but I do
remember swearing a lot and then going to make a stiff drink). I
thought the entire drum assembly would be heavier, but it was easy
enough to grab and lift out. It did take a few evenings after work to
complete, but then again, I did take a bit of time to clean up the back
of the inner drum with the pressure washer and some chemicals to get all
the gunk off, and also used some 400 grit wet sandpaper to clean up the
spindle especially where the seal seats. This is a good idea for
anyone doing this repair. I spread a very thin layer of good synthetic
grease on the spindle for good measure.

I figure I saved about 400 bucks. One thing I like about Sears is that
I know I'll be able to get parts thru them for practically forever. How
do I know??? I bought parts for a 30 year old radial arm saw several
years ago. Got everything I needed in 3 days.

What is stupid is that this set is around 5 years old and this is the
2nd major repair. The first was the electronic control board that
friggin burned up. Fortunately it was still under warranty by 2 days.

Thanks again for the great information!!!

Mike


--
mike88gt





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Do not be afraid to try this repair. I found this forum with a google search and it answered all my questions. I just finished this o-ring replacement between the tubs and the hardest part was the gasket on the front. Do as someone else described and remove it from the outside near the door. Just use a razor and cut the glue. I made the mistake of trying to take off the inside part that attaches to the drum. DO NOT do that. That took me the longest to put back together, there is a stretchy wirey thing that holds it on and obviously it is pretty tight. I had no idea what I was doing and it took me 2 hours to complete. There are only four things to disconnect and reconnect. The drain hose, the front gasket, the top hose from the detergent, and the motor wires. It cost me a total of just under 20 bucks from Sears parts. Do not be afraid and good luck.

Last edited by stckwd : March 6th 07 at 03:29 AM
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