I need to replace a water shut-off valve below my kitchen sink. I see
that valves come made to fit on either 1/2" or 5/8" pipe. When I
measure the copper intake pipe with my (not very accurate) caliper it
measures .66, which is a little over 5/8". I think I read somewhere
that "1/2 inch" refers to the inside diameter, and that the outside
diameter is closer to 5/8. True? No?

So, what do I have, 1/2" or 5/8" copper pipe? I'm thinking 1/2" because
it's more common, and if it were 5/8" the outside diameter might be
greater than .66".

Also, Home Depot has valves with Shark Bite connectors which don't
require compression fittings. Are those things reliable?

On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 7:47:57 PM UTC-5, Nil wrote:
I need to replace a water shut-off valve below my kitchen sink. I see
that valves come made to fit on either 1/2" or 5/8" pipe. When I
measure the copper intake pipe with my (not very accurate) caliper it
measures .66, which is a little over 5/8". I think I read somewhere
that "1/2 inch" refers to the inside diameter, and that the outside
diameter is closer to 5/8. True? No?

So, what do I have, 1/2" or 5/8" copper pipe? I'm thinking 1/2" because
it's more common, and if it were 5/8" the outside diameter might be
greater than .66".

https://www.sizes.com/materials/pipeCopper.htm

Also, Home Depot has valves with Shark Bite connectors which don't
require compression fittings. Are those things reliable?

On 6/6/2021 8:47 PM, Nil wrote:
I need to replace a water shut-off valve below my kitchen sink. I see
that valves come made to fit on either 1/2" or 5/8" pipe. When I
measure the copper intake pipe with my (not very accurate) caliper it
measures .66, which is a little over 5/8". I think I read somewhere
that "1/2 inch" refers to the inside diameter, and that the outside
diameter is closer to 5/8. True? No?

So, what do I have, 1/2" or 5/8" copper pipe? I'm thinking 1/2" because
it's more common, and if it were 5/8" the outside diameter might be
greater than .66".

Also, Home Depot has valves with Shark Bite connectors which don't
require compression fittings. Are those things reliable?

You have 1/2" copper
1/2 OD 0.625 ID 0.545

Sharkbite fittings work well.

On 06 Jun 2021, Dean Hoffman wrote in
alt.home.repair:

On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 7:47:57 PM UTC-5, Nil wrote:
I need to replace a water shut-off valve below my kitchen sink. I
see that valves come made to fit on either 1/2" or 5/8" pipe.
When I measure the copper intake pipe with my (not very accurate)
caliper it measures .66, which is a little over 5/8". I think I
read somewhere that "1/2 inch" refers to the inside diameter, and
that the outside diameter is closer to 5/8. True? No?

So, what do I have, 1/2" or 5/8" copper pipe? I'm thinking 1/2"
because it's more common, and if it were 5/8" the outside
diameter might be greater than .66".

https://www.sizes.com/materials/pipeCopper.htm

Also, Home Depot has valves with Shark Bite connectors which
don't require compression fittings. Are those things reliable?

Good summary, thanks. Apparently I have 1/2" L-series pipe.

On 06 Jun 2021, Ed Pawlowski wrote in
alt.home.repair:

On 6/6/2021 8:47 PM, Nil wrote:
I need to replace a water shut-off valve below my kitchen sink. I
see that valves come made to fit on either 1/2" or 5/8" pipe.
When I measure the copper intake pipe with my (not very accurate)
caliper it measures .66, which is a little over 5/8". I think I
read somewhere that "1/2 inch" refers to the inside diameter, and
that the outside diameter is closer to 5/8. True? No?

So, what do I have, 1/2" or 5/8" copper pipe? I'm thinking 1/2"
because it's more common, and if it were 5/8" the outside
diameter might be greater than .66".

Also, Home Depot has valves with Shark Bite connectors which
don't require compression fittings. Are those things reliable?

You have 1/2" copper
1/2 OD 0.625 ID 0.545

Sharkbite fittings work well.

Thank you! I was going to buy two valves and return one, but I think
you're right.

The Sharkbite version will save me some work and uncertainty. I'm not
good with those compression ring fittings.

On Sun, 06 Jun 2021 20:47:52 -0400, Nil
wrote:

I need to replace a water shut-off valve below my kitchen sink. I see
that valves come made to fit on either 1/2" or 5/8" pipe. When I
measure the copper intake pipe with my (not very accurate) caliper it
measures .66, which is a little over 5/8". I think I read somewhere
that "1/2 inch" refers to the inside diameter, and that the outside
diameter is closer to 5/8. True? No?

So, what do I have, 1/2" or 5/8" copper pipe? I'm thinking 1/2" because
it's more common, and if it were 5/8" the outside diameter might be
greater than .66".

Also, Home Depot has valves with Shark Bite connectors which don't
require compression fittings. Are those things reliable?

"Pipe" is specified by the nominal ID. (the OD remains the same for
each nominal size)
"Tubing" is measured by the OD fairly accurately.
1/2" copper PIPE is about 5/8 OD. The ID will vary by the
"schedule/type" of the pipe. Thicker walls result in a smaller ID. The
OD has to be the same so the fittings work.

writes:
On Sun, 06 Jun 2021 20:47:52 -0400, Nil
wrote:

I need to replace a water shut-off valve below my kitchen sink. I see
that valves come made to fit on either 1/2" or 5/8" pipe. When I
measure the copper intake pipe with my (not very accurate) caliper it
measures .66, which is a little over 5/8". I think I read somewhere
that "1/2 inch" refers to the inside diameter, and that the outside
diameter is closer to 5/8. True? No?

So, what do I have, 1/2" or 5/8" copper pipe? I'm thinking 1/2" because
it's more common, and if it were 5/8" the outside diameter might be
greater than .66".

Also, Home Depot has valves with Shark Bite connectors which don't
require compression fittings. Are those things reliable?

"Pipe" is specified by the nominal ID. (the OD remains the same for
each nominal size)

Usually, but not always. For example, CPVC vs. PVC.

CPVC is measured by O.D., which makes its sizing similar
to hard copper. PVC is measured by I.D., which makes its
sizing similar to iron pipe.

On Mon, 07 Jun 2021 15:03:06 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:
On Sun, 06 Jun 2021 20:47:52 -0400, Nil
wrote:

I need to replace a water shut-off valve below my kitchen sink. I see
that valves come made to fit on either 1/2" or 5/8" pipe. When I
measure the copper intake pipe with my (not very accurate) caliper it
measures .66, which is a little over 5/8". I think I read somewhere
that "1/2 inch" refers to the inside diameter, and that the outside
diameter is closer to 5/8. True? No?

So, what do I have, 1/2" or 5/8" copper pipe? I'm thinking 1/2" because
it's more common, and if it were 5/8" the outside diameter might be
greater than .66".

Also, Home Depot has valves with Shark Bite connectors which don't
require compression fittings. Are those things reliable?

"Pipe" is specified by the nominal ID. (the OD remains the same for
each nominal size)

Usually, but not always. For example, CPVC vs. PVC.

CPVC is measured by O.D., which makes its sizing similar
to hard copper. PVC is measured by I.D., which makes its
sizing similar to iron pipe.

That isn't exactly true either.
CPVC has the same dimensions as the corresponding copper pipe. (1/2"
is 5/8"OD)
It works with the same shark bites

PCV has the dimensions of galvanized or black iron pipe.
If it is threaded, galvanized fittings work. (usually only found in
schedule 80)

On Sun, 06 Jun 2021 20:47:52 -0400, Nil posted for all of us to digest...


I need to replace a water shut-off valve below my kitchen sink. I see
that valves come made to fit on either 1/2" or 5/8" pipe. When I
measure the copper intake pipe with my (not very accurate) caliper it
measures .66, which is a little over 5/8". I think I read somewhere
that "1/2 inch" refers to the inside diameter, and that the outside
diameter is closer to 5/8. True? No?

So, what do I have, 1/2" or 5/8" copper pipe? I'm thinking 1/2" because
it's more common, and if it were 5/8" the outside diameter might be
greater than .66".

Also, Home Depot has valves with Shark Bite connectors which don't
require compression fittings. Are those things reliable?

1/2" No, IMO I don't like them. Do you store stuff in the cabinet? Does it
ever slam against the pipes? Others may disagree.

--
Tekkie

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 2:33:43 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jun 2021 20:47:52 -0400, Nil posted for all of us to digest...

I need to replace a water shut-off valve below my kitchen sink. I see
that valves come made to fit on either 1/2" or 5/8" pipe. When I
measure the copper intake pipe with my (not very accurate) caliper it
measures .66, which is a little over 5/8". I think I read somewhere
that "1/2 inch" refers to the inside diameter, and that the outside
diameter is closer to 5/8. True? No?

So, what do I have, 1/2" or 5/8" copper pipe? I'm thinking 1/2" because
it's more common, and if it were 5/8" the outside diameter might be
greater than .66".

Also, Home Depot has valves with Shark Bite connectors which don't
require compression fittings. Are those things reliable?
1/2" No, IMO I don't like them. Do you store stuff in the cabinet? Does it
ever slam against the pipes? Others may disagree.


The question was not whether or not you like them, the question was "Are those
things reliable?" The answer to that is Yes, otherwise they wouldn't be approved
for behind the wall use by the Uniform Plumbing Code, the International Plumbing
Code and the National Plumbing Code of Canada.

In addition, the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials
listing states that the product €œcan be utilized in underground applications and
as manufactured joints without access panels.€�

That's good enough for me.

Separate question: Are you OK with stuff banging against compression fittings but
not push-to-fit fittings? If so, are you aware that SharkBite fittings are designed to
rotate on the pipe while a compression fitting is fixed? Given the option, I'd rather
have SharkBite fittings get knocked around than compression fittings. At least they
are smart enough to get out of the way. ;-)

On 08 Jun 2021, Marilyn Manson wrote
in alt.home.repair:

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 2:33:43 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
1/2" No, IMO I don't like them. Do you store stuff in the
cabinet? Does it
ever slam against the pipes? Others may disagree.


The question was not whether or not you like them, the question
was "Are those things reliable?" The answer to that is Yes,
otherwise they wouldn't be approved for behind the wall use by the
Uniform Plumbing Code, the International Plumbing Code and the
National Plumbing Code of Canada.

In addition, the International Association of Plumbing and
Mechanical Officials listing states that the product €œcan be
utilized in underground applications and as manufactured joints
without access panels.€�

That's good enough for me.

Separate question: Are you OK with stuff banging against
compression fittings but not push-to-fit fittings? If so, are you
aware that SharkBite fittings are designed to rotate on the pipe
while a compression fitting is fixed? Given the option, I'd rather
have SharkBite fittings get knocked around than compression
fittings. At least they are smart enough to get out of the way.
;-)

The cabinet has enough space in it that stuff doesn't usually knock
against the pipes, although it could happen, of course.

I didn't realize that the Sharkbite fittings were still rotatable after
installation. I did notice in the one video I watched that it seemed to
move a little, but I guess I figured that it would stay in place once
everything was settled in. I kind of like the idea of the valve being
firmly fixed in place, but in practice, once I install it it's not
likely to move unless I'm turning the handle.

On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 13:05:35 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 2:33:43 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jun 2021 20:47:52 -0400, Nil posted for all of us to digest...

I need to replace a water shut-off valve below my kitchen sink. I see
that valves come made to fit on either 1/2" or 5/8" pipe. When I
measure the copper intake pipe with my (not very accurate) caliper it
measures .66, which is a little over 5/8". I think I read somewhere
that "1/2 inch" refers to the inside diameter, and that the outside
diameter is closer to 5/8. True? No?

So, what do I have, 1/2" or 5/8" copper pipe? I'm thinking 1/2" because
it's more common, and if it were 5/8" the outside diameter might be
greater than .66".

Also, Home Depot has valves with Shark Bite connectors which don't
require compression fittings. Are those things reliable?
1/2" No, IMO I don't like them. Do you store stuff in the cabinet? Does it
ever slam against the pipes? Others may disagree.


The question was not whether or not you like them, the question was "Are those
things reliable?" The answer to that is Yes, otherwise they wouldn't be approved
for behind the wall use by the Uniform Plumbing Code, the International Plumbing
Code and the National Plumbing Code of Canada.

In addition, the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials
listing states that the product €œcan be utilized in underground applications and
as manufactured joints without access panels.€�

That's good enough for me.

Separate question: Are you OK with stuff banging against compression fittings but
not push-to-fit fittings? If so, are you aware that SharkBite fittings are designed to
rotate on the pipe while a compression fitting is fixed? Given the option, I'd rather
have SharkBite fittings get knocked around than compression fittings. At least they
are smart enough to get out of the way. ;-)

Sharkbites are good as long as you expect to have an O ring last. If
you have ever seen one get hard and brittle, think about that inside a
wall.
Just the fact that it is code legal doesn't really mean much. 1350
alloy Aluminum wire was legal in the wall for 30 years. Then it
wasn't.

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 6:19:19 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 13:05:35 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 2:33:43 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jun 2021 20:47:52 -0400, Nil posted for all of us to digest....

I need to replace a water shut-off valve below my kitchen sink. I see
that valves come made to fit on either 1/2" or 5/8" pipe. When I
measure the copper intake pipe with my (not very accurate) caliper it
measures .66, which is a little over 5/8". I think I read somewhere
that "1/2 inch" refers to the inside diameter, and that the outside
diameter is closer to 5/8. True? No?

So, what do I have, 1/2" or 5/8" copper pipe? I'm thinking 1/2" because
it's more common, and if it were 5/8" the outside diameter might be
greater than .66".

Also, Home Depot has valves with Shark Bite connectors which don't
require compression fittings. Are those things reliable?
1/2" No, IMO I don't like them. Do you store stuff in the cabinet? Does it
ever slam against the pipes? Others may disagree.


The question was not whether or not you like them, the question was "Are those
things reliable?" The answer to that is Yes, otherwise they wouldn't be approved
for behind the wall use by the Uniform Plumbing Code, the International Plumbing
Code and the National Plumbing Code of Canada.

In addition, the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials
listing states that the product €œcan be utilized in underground applications and
as manufactured joints without access panels.€�

That's good enough for me.

Separate question: Are you OK with stuff banging against compression fittings but
not push-to-fit fittings? If so, are you aware that SharkBite fittings are designed to
rotate on the pipe while a compression fitting is fixed? Given the option, I'd rather
have SharkBite fittings get knocked around than compression fittings. At least they
are smart enough to get out of the way. ;-)
Sharkbites are good as long as you expect to have an O ring last. If
you have ever seen one get hard and brittle, think about that inside a
wall.
Just the fact that it is code legal doesn't really mean much. 1350
alloy Aluminum wire was legal in the wall for 30 years. Then it
wasn't.

Why was 1350 de-coded, so to speak?

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 6:19:19 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 13:05:35 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 2:33:43 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jun 2021 20:47:52 -0400, Nil posted for all of us to digest....

I need to replace a water shut-off valve below my kitchen sink. I see
that valves come made to fit on either 1/2" or 5/8" pipe. When I
measure the copper intake pipe with my (not very accurate) caliper it
measures .66, which is a little over 5/8". I think I read somewhere
that "1/2 inch" refers to the inside diameter, and that the outside
diameter is closer to 5/8. True? No?

So, what do I have, 1/2" or 5/8" copper pipe? I'm thinking 1/2" because
it's more common, and if it were 5/8" the outside diameter might be
greater than .66".

Also, Home Depot has valves with Shark Bite connectors which don't
require compression fittings. Are those things reliable?
1/2" No, IMO I don't like them. Do you store stuff in the cabinet? Does it
ever slam against the pipes? Others may disagree.


The question was not whether or not you like them, the question was "Are those
things reliable?" The answer to that is Yes, otherwise they wouldn't be approved
for behind the wall use by the Uniform Plumbing Code, the International Plumbing
Code and the National Plumbing Code of Canada.

In addition, the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials
listing states that the product €œcan be utilized in underground applications and
as manufactured joints without access panels.€�

That's good enough for me.

Separate question: Are you OK with stuff banging against compression fittings but
not push-to-fit fittings? If so, are you aware that SharkBite fittings are designed to
rotate on the pipe while a compression fitting is fixed? Given the option, I'd rather
have SharkBite fittings get knocked around than compression fittings. At least they
are smart enough to get out of the way. ;-)
Sharkbites are good as long as you expect to have an O ring last. If
you have ever seen one get hard and brittle, think about that inside a
wall.

Forgot to mention: Not all O-rings are created equal.

Forgot to ask: What is your actual personal opinion of using SharkBite
fittings inside a wall (or underground)?


Just the fact that it is code legal doesn't really mean much. 1350
alloy Aluminum wire was legal in the wall for 30 years. Then it
wasn't.

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 6:17:06 PM UTC-4, Nil wrote:
On 08 Jun 2021, Marilyn Manson wrote
in alt.home.repair:
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 2:33:43 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
1/2" No, IMO I don't like them. Do you store stuff in the
cabinet? Does it
ever slam against the pipes? Others may disagree.


The question was not whether or not you like them, the question
was "Are those things reliable?" The answer to that is Yes,
otherwise they wouldn't be approved for behind the wall use by the
Uniform Plumbing Code, the International Plumbing Code and the
National Plumbing Code of Canada.

In addition, the International Association of Plumbing and
Mechanical Officials listing states that the product €œcan be
utilized in underground applications and as manufactured joints
without access panels.€�

That's good enough for me.

Separate question: Are you OK with stuff banging against
compression fittings but not push-to-fit fittings? If so, are you
aware that SharkBite fittings are designed to rotate on the pipe
while a compression fitting is fixed? Given the option, I'd rather
have SharkBite fittings get knocked around than compression
fittings. At least they are smart enough to get out of the way.
;-)
The cabinet has enough space in it that stuff doesn't usually knock
against the pipes, although it could happen, of course.

I didn't realize that the Sharkbite fittings were still rotatable after
installation. I did notice in the one video I watched that it seemed to
move a little, but I guess I figured that it would stay in place once
everything was settled in. I kind of like the idea of the valve being
firmly fixed in place, but in practice, once I install it it's not
likely to move unless I'm turning the handle.

The rotation of the fittings is actually a very convenient feature.

There is no need to line up your elbows, tees, shutoffs, etc. during
installation. Just pop them on and rotate them until they point
in the direction that you need them to.

Granted, they are more expensive, so I sweat where I can and
use SharkBites mostly in tight spots, like inside a cabinet or
up in a joist bay. I'd rather sweat than use compression fittings
but if sweating is inconvenient, I'll use SharkBites without
hesitation.

In article ,
says...
wall.
Just the fact that it is code legal doesn't really mean much. 1350
alloy Aluminum wire was legal in the wall for 30 years. Then it
wasn't.

Why was 1350 de-coded, so to speak?



From what I understand many houses were set on fire by it. The stuff
has a habit of loosing up under the screws and creating hot spots.

On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 15:59:48 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 6:19:19 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 13:05:35 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 2:33:43 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jun 2021 20:47:52 -0400, Nil posted for all of us to digest...

I need to replace a water shut-off valve below my kitchen sink. I see
that valves come made to fit on either 1/2" or 5/8" pipe. When I
measure the copper intake pipe with my (not very accurate) caliper it
measures .66, which is a little over 5/8". I think I read somewhere
that "1/2 inch" refers to the inside diameter, and that the outside
diameter is closer to 5/8. True? No?

So, what do I have, 1/2" or 5/8" copper pipe? I'm thinking 1/2" because
it's more common, and if it were 5/8" the outside diameter might be
greater than .66".

Also, Home Depot has valves with Shark Bite connectors which don't
require compression fittings. Are those things reliable?
1/2" No, IMO I don't like them. Do you store stuff in the cabinet? Does it
ever slam against the pipes? Others may disagree.


The question was not whether or not you like them, the question was "Are those
things reliable?" The answer to that is Yes, otherwise they wouldn't be approved
for behind the wall use by the Uniform Plumbing Code, the International Plumbing
Code and the National Plumbing Code of Canada.

In addition, the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials
listing states that the product €œcan be utilized in underground applications and
as manufactured joints without access panels.€�

That's good enough for me.

Separate question: Are you OK with stuff banging against compression fittings but
not push-to-fit fittings? If so, are you aware that SharkBite fittings are designed to
rotate on the pipe while a compression fitting is fixed? Given the option, I'd rather
have SharkBite fittings get knocked around than compression fittings. At least they
are smart enough to get out of the way. ;-)
Sharkbites are good as long as you expect to have an O ring last. If
you have ever seen one get hard and brittle, think about that inside a
wall.
Just the fact that it is code legal doesn't really mean much. 1350
alloy Aluminum wire was legal in the wall for 30 years. Then it
wasn't.

Why was 1350 de-coded, so to speak?

That was the infamous "aluminum wire" that got so much scary press in
the 70s. It was originally developed for overhead service,
distribution and transmission. It turned out to have to much expansion
and it was too brittle to use in small conductors. When they started
using more malleable AA8800 alloys and devices that can deal with that
expansion rate the code reflected that change (1975), in effect
outlawing the 1350 wire.

On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 16:03:31 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 6:19:19 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 13:05:35 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 2:33:43 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jun 2021 20:47:52 -0400, Nil posted for all of us to digest...

I need to replace a water shut-off valve below my kitchen sink. I see
that valves come made to fit on either 1/2" or 5/8" pipe. When I
measure the copper intake pipe with my (not very accurate) caliper it
measures .66, which is a little over 5/8". I think I read somewhere
that "1/2 inch" refers to the inside diameter, and that the outside
diameter is closer to 5/8. True? No?

So, what do I have, 1/2" or 5/8" copper pipe? I'm thinking 1/2" because
it's more common, and if it were 5/8" the outside diameter might be
greater than .66".

Also, Home Depot has valves with Shark Bite connectors which don't
require compression fittings. Are those things reliable?
1/2" No, IMO I don't like them. Do you store stuff in the cabinet? Does it
ever slam against the pipes? Others may disagree.


The question was not whether or not you like them, the question was "Are those
things reliable?" The answer to that is Yes, otherwise they wouldn't be approved
for behind the wall use by the Uniform Plumbing Code, the International Plumbing
Code and the National Plumbing Code of Canada.

In addition, the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials
listing states that the product €œcan be utilized in underground applications and
as manufactured joints without access panels.€�

That's good enough for me.

Separate question: Are you OK with stuff banging against compression fittings but
not push-to-fit fittings? If so, are you aware that SharkBite fittings are designed to
rotate on the pipe while a compression fitting is fixed? Given the option, I'd rather
have SharkBite fittings get knocked around than compression fittings. At least they
are smart enough to get out of the way. ;-)
Sharkbites are good as long as you expect to have an O ring last. If
you have ever seen one get hard and brittle, think about that inside a
wall.

Forgot to mention: Not all O-rings are created equal.

It is still an O ring. You better be sure there are no burrs on the
pipe. These things remind me of Polybutylene pipe. That was all the
rage, legal, easy to use and fast to install, until it started
failing.

Forgot to ask: What is your actual personal opinion of using SharkBite
fittings inside a wall (or underground)?

I wouldn't use them at all. I know how to sweat pipe. If I couldn't
use a torch (fire hazard), I would use a compression fitting or a
flare.
Just the fact that it is code legal doesn't really mean much. 1350
alloy Aluminum wire was legal in the wall for 30 years. Then it
wasn't.

On 08 Jun 2021, Marilyn Manson wrote
in alt.home.repair:

The rotation of the fittings is actually a very convenient
feature.

There is no need to line up your elbows, tees, shutoffs, etc.
during installation. Just pop them on and rotate them until they
point in the direction that you need them to.

Granted, they are more expensive, so I sweat where I can and
use SharkBites mostly in tight spots, like inside a cabinet or
up in a joist bay. I'd rather sweat than use compression fittings
but if sweating is inconvenient, I'll use SharkBites without
hesitation.

It is super-cramped in this cabinet. I can't really fit my shoulders in
there, which leaves me trying to do the work with arms fully extended.
Very uncomfortable and fatiguing. I assume that most of the plumbing
was done before they installed the cabinetry. I think Sharkbites will
make the job a hell of a lot easier and faster.

On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 19:35:54 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...
wall.
Just the fact that it is code legal doesn't really mean much. 1350
alloy Aluminum wire was legal in the wall for 30 years. Then it
wasn't.

Why was 1350 de-coded, so to speak?



From what I understand many houses were set on fire by it. The stuff
has a habit of loosing up under the screws and creating hot spots.


The number of actual fires that burned houses down was pretty low but
the system worked in the sense that there were plenty of scary looking
receptacle "close calls" where there was a fire but it was mostly
contained by the box. There is still an argument that workmanship was
as big a contributor as the wire itself but it was clear a steel
binding screw had different thermal characteristics than aluminum
wire. This is certainly not a wiring method for Harry Homeowner to be
screwing with if they don't understand the issues. The Co/Alr device
specified in the 75 and up code uses a different alloy screw that
tracks the aluminum better. The head is bigger to accommodate the
larger wire size and most have serration to give the wire a better
grip. By the time they fixed the problem, aluminum had such a bad
reputation it never caught on again.
There never was a problem with lug type terminations see on larger
wire sizes and on most large devices the lug is aluminum anyway.
Studies have shown aluminum wire in an aluminum lug performs better
than copper but not enough to be significant. The studies also show,
anti-oxidant paste doesn't really do much but it makes people feel
better. The code only requires it if the manufacturer has it in their
"requirements" (not recommendations) so it really isn't going to be
required very often.
I still know 2 people with aluminum wired houses that are not having
problems 50 years later. Their secret, it was installed well and
nobody screwed with it.

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 7:46:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 16:03:31 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 6:19:19 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 13:05:35 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 2:33:43 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jun 2021 20:47:52 -0400, Nil posted for all of us to digest...

I need to replace a water shut-off valve below my kitchen sink. I see
that valves come made to fit on either 1/2" or 5/8" pipe. When I
measure the copper intake pipe with my (not very accurate) caliper it
measures .66, which is a little over 5/8". I think I read somewhere
that "1/2 inch" refers to the inside diameter, and that the outside
diameter is closer to 5/8. True? No?

So, what do I have, 1/2" or 5/8" copper pipe? I'm thinking 1/2" because
it's more common, and if it were 5/8" the outside diameter might be
greater than .66".

Also, Home Depot has valves with Shark Bite connectors which don't
require compression fittings. Are those things reliable?
1/2" No, IMO I don't like them. Do you store stuff in the cabinet? Does it
ever slam against the pipes? Others may disagree.


The question was not whether or not you like them, the question was "Are those
things reliable?" The answer to that is Yes, otherwise they wouldn't be approved
for behind the wall use by the Uniform Plumbing Code, the International Plumbing
Code and the National Plumbing Code of Canada.

In addition, the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials
listing states that the product €œcan be utilized in underground applications and
as manufactured joints without access panels.€�

That's good enough for me.

Separate question: Are you OK with stuff banging against compression fittings but
not push-to-fit fittings? If so, are you aware that SharkBite fittings are designed to
rotate on the pipe while a compression fitting is fixed? Given the option, I'd rather
have SharkBite fittings get knocked around than compression fittings. At least they
are smart enough to get out of the way. ;-)
Sharkbites are good as long as you expect to have an O ring last. If
you have ever seen one get hard and brittle, think about that inside a
wall.

Forgot to mention: Not all O-rings are created equal.

It is still an O ring. You better be sure there are no burrs on the
pipe. These things remind me of Polybutylene pipe. That was all the
rage, legal, easy to use and fast to install, until it started
failing.
Forgot to ask: What is your actual personal opinion of using SharkBite
fittings inside a wall (or underground)?

I wouldn't use them at all. I know how to sweat pipe.

Pretty much agree. I would only use a SB for a tough location, where
soldering was too difficult or risky. So far I haven't encountered that scenario.

On Wednesday, June 9, 2021 at 9:20:13 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 7:46:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 16:03:31 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 6:19:19 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 13:05:35 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 2:33:43 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jun 2021 20:47:52 -0400, Nil posted for all of us to digest...

I need to replace a water shut-off valve below my kitchen sink. I see
that valves come made to fit on either 1/2" or 5/8" pipe. When I
measure the copper intake pipe with my (not very accurate) caliper it
measures .66, which is a little over 5/8". I think I read somewhere
that "1/2 inch" refers to the inside diameter, and that the outside
diameter is closer to 5/8. True? No?

So, what do I have, 1/2" or 5/8" copper pipe? I'm thinking 1/2" because
it's more common, and if it were 5/8" the outside diameter might be
greater than .66".

Also, Home Depot has valves with Shark Bite connectors which don't
require compression fittings. Are those things reliable?
1/2" No, IMO I don't like them. Do you store stuff in the cabinet? Does it
ever slam against the pipes? Others may disagree.


The question was not whether or not you like them, the question was "Are those
things reliable?" The answer to that is Yes, otherwise they wouldn't be approved
for behind the wall use by the Uniform Plumbing Code, the International Plumbing
Code and the National Plumbing Code of Canada.

In addition, the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials
listing states that the product €œcan be utilized in underground applications and
as manufactured joints without access panels.€�

That's good enough for me.

Separate question: Are you OK with stuff banging against compression fittings but
not push-to-fit fittings? If so, are you aware that SharkBite fittings are designed to
rotate on the pipe while a compression fitting is fixed? Given the option, I'd rather
have SharkBite fittings get knocked around than compression fittings. At least they
are smart enough to get out of the way. ;-)
Sharkbites are good as long as you expect to have an O ring last. If
you have ever seen one get hard and brittle, think about that inside a
wall.

Forgot to mention: Not all O-rings are created equal.

It is still an O ring. You better be sure there are no burrs on the
pipe. These things remind me of Polybutylene pipe. That was all the
rage, legal, easy to use and fast to install, until it started
failing.
Forgot to ask: What is your actual personal opinion of using SharkBite
fittings inside a wall (or underground)?

I wouldn't use them at all. I know how to sweat pipe.
Pretty much agree. I would only use a SB for a tough location, where
soldering was too difficult or risky. So far I haven't encountered that scenario.

That's basically where I am at and where I have used them.

I recently did some reno work in bathroom that involved removing the sink. It turned
out that the 30+ YO compression shut-offs didn't hold. I have a couple of SharkBite
caps, so I turned off the main, removed the old compression shutoffs, popped
on the caps and turned the main back on. 10 minutes worth of work.

I bought new compression shutoffs but for the life of me I could not get them
to stop leaking. I tried 3 and they all leaked. 2 SharkBite shutoffs later and
I was good to go. Shutoffs are too close to a finished wall to sweat.