The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I've had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I'm not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.


It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don't try to make,
because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky
wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were.

It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation.


I've only used these once or twice - but no issues :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg3qBZZm5DU

https://www.sherco-auto.com/t-tap-connectors.html

John T.

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky
wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I've had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I'm not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.

3) Copper is expensive.

4) Weight. Every pound counts towards EPA fuel ratings. Seriously.
IIRC, domestic cars use mostly 20Ga wire. I don't remember but
Japanese may use 22Ga. There is a *lot* of wire in a car.

It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don't try to make,
because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 12:10:44 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I've had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I'm not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.


It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don't try to make,
because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

You missed the third reason. Japanese wiring is more efficient than big,
fat, American wiring.

On 5/5/2021 10:10 AM, micky wrote:
The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I've had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I'm not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.


LED lights do not need much power. Most control signals are very low
current.

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:34:29 -0400, posted for all of us
to digest...


On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky
wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were.

It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation.


I've only used these once or twice - but no issues :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg3qBZZm5DU

https://www.sherco-auto.com/t-tap-connectors.html

John T.

Oh no! Scotchlock connectors 8( I have replaced them in numerous occasions.
Usually after-market installs of alarms, remote starts, plows, etc. They may
work for awhile (whatever that is) but are unreliable over time with vibration.
Best done with heat shrink and solder or crimping.

--
Tekkie

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky posted for all of us to digest...


The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I've had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I'm not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.


It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don't try to make,
because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

Did you ever consider that much of what a car operates on is computer
controlled? The wire sizes are set for load by the SAE which any manufacturer
would seemingly not violate.

If you have trouble cutting the wire while stripping insulation you are using a
notch size too small, cheap stripper or a knife. The trick is to start with a
bigger wire size and if that doesn't work go one size smaller. Let the stripper
do the work. Wire gauge is opposite of size i.e. 22 gauge is smaller than 18
gauge.

If you have the green crusties then you have water ingress.

Put the wire back in the loom when done making sure it is as close to the
location as it was. Some situations may require the loom/wire be relocated due
to manufacturers defect /-(

--
Tekkie

In article ,
says...

Oh no! Scotchlock connectors 8( I have replaced them in numerous occasions.
Usually after-market installs of alarms, remote starts, plows, etc. They may
work for awhile (whatever that is) but are unreliable over time with vibration.
Best done with heat shrink and solder or crimping.




Checkout the Wago Leaver nuts. They are reusable and fit a broad range
of wire.

https://www.wago.com/us/lp-221

On Wed, 5 May 2021 17:18:49 -0400, Ralph Mowery posted for all of us to
digest...


In article ,
says...

Oh no! Scotchlock connectors 8( I have replaced them in numerous occasions.
Usually after-market installs of alarms, remote starts, plows, etc. They may
work for awhile (whatever that is) but are unreliable over time with vibration.
Best done with heat shrink and solder or crimping.




Checkout the Wago Leaver nuts. They are reusable and fit a broad range
of wire.

https://www.wago.com/us/lp-221

I am VERY familiar with them. They sent me two big bags of samples, gratis. I
don't believe they are made for automotive application.

--
Tekkie

On Wed, 5 May 2021 17:18:49 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Oh no! Scotchlock connectors 8( I have replaced them in numerous occasions.
Usually after-market installs of alarms, remote starts, plows, etc. They may
work for awhile (whatever that is) but are unreliable over time with vibration.
Best done with heat shrink and solder or crimping.




Checkout the Wago Leaver nuts. They are reusable and fit a broad range
of wire.

https://www.wago.com/us/lp-221



OP's problem was stripping the wire - not solved with these.
A decent wire stripper is really what he needs.
John T.

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky
wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I've had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I'm not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.


It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don't try to make,
because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

Newer electronics draw less current than the older technology. I
imagine American cars are doing the same ... assuming there still is
an "American car".

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 05 May 2021 13:34:29 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky
wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were.

It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation.


I've only used these once or twice - but no issues :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg3qBZZm5DU

https://www.sherco-auto.com/t-tap-connectors.html

John T.

I wrote a nice, interesting answer, and then it all got lost in a crash.
It's so much harder to write the same thing again, but maybe tomorrow I
will. I also want to look at the car again.



(A good wire stripper won't solve the problem for a couple reasons.)

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 05 May 2021 15:16:19 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky
wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I've had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I'm not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.

3) Copper is expensive.

4) Weight. Every pound counts towards EPA fuel ratings. Seriously.
IIRC, domestic cars use mostly 20Ga wire. I don't remember but
Japanese may use 22Ga. There is a *lot* of wire in a car.

So you're agreeing that the Japanese use thinnner wire than the
Americans do?

Do you think it had to do with post-war poverty in Japan?

Have the Americans made their wires thinner than in the 1990's?

It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don't try to make,
because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

I wrote a nice, interesting answer, and then it all got lost in a crash.
It's so much harder to write the same thing again, but maybe tomorrow I
will. I also want to look at the car again.


We're all on the edges of our seats in anticipation.
John T.

"micky" wrote in message
...
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 05 May 2021 13:34:29 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky
wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were.

It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation.


I've only used these once or twice - but no issues :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg3qBZZm5DU

https://www.sherco-auto.com/t-tap-connectors.html

I wrote a nice, interesting answer, and then it all got lost in a crash.
It's so much harder to write the same thing again,

Yeah, its bloody annoying too.

but maybe tomorrow I will. I also want to look at the car again.

(A good wire stripper won't solve the problem for a couple reasons.)

"micky" wrote in message
...
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 05 May 2021 15:16:19 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky
wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I've had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I'm not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.

3) Copper is expensive.

4) Weight. Every pound counts towards EPA fuel ratings. Seriously.
IIRC, domestic cars use mostly 20Ga wire. I don't remember but
Japanese may use 22Ga. There is a *lot* of wire in a car.

So you're agreeing that the Japanese use thinnner wire than the
Americans do?

Do you think it had to do with post-war poverty in Japan?

Nope, it took them quite a while before they did cars after
the war and they included stuff that was optional on the
local cars to get people to buy unknown cars.

Have the Americans made their wires thinner than in the 1990's?

Dunno. I've added another newsgroup, Jim in there prefers
american cars, not sure if its recent ones tho.

It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don't try to make,
because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

On 06/05/2021 02:25, Rod Speed wrote:

It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation.Â*Â* But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don't try to make,
because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.



The wires on 24V vehicles are thinner than them on 12V vehicles. Yes I
do know why.

"Dad, why are the wires made of lots of little thin wires?"
"There's one for each volt son."
"Dad, I've counted the thin wires in this thick one and there's 84. So
is that 84 volts?"
"It's your bedtime."

Bill

On Wed, 5 May 2021 17:18:49 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Oh no! Scotchlock connectors 8( I have replaced them in numerous occasions.
Usually after-market installs of alarms, remote starts, plows, etc. They may
work for awhile (whatever that is) but are unreliable over time with vibration.
Best done with heat shrink and solder or crimping.




Checkout the Wago Leaver nuts. They are reusable and fit a broad range
of wire.

https://www.wago.com/us/lp-221

There is NO APPLICATION FOR A WIRE NUT IN A CAR!! Period

On Wed, 05 May 2021 20:21:53 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 05 May 2021 15:16:19 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky
wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I've had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I'm not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.

3) Copper is expensive.

4) Weight. Every pound counts towards EPA fuel ratings. Seriously.
IIRC, domestic cars use mostly 20Ga wire. I don't remember but
Japanese may use 22Ga. There is a *lot* of wire in a car.

So you're agreeing that the Japanese use thinnner wire than the
Americans do?

Do you think it had to do with post-war poverty in Japan?

Have the Americans made their wires thinner than in the 1990's?

Yes. and the've used aluminum too. And "ribbon wire"
On the whole American (and european) wiring is crappier than Japanese

It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don't try to make,
because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.

On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 9:02:13 PM UTC-5, williamwright wrote:
On 06/05/2021 02:25, Rod Speed wrote:

It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don't try to make,
because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.


The wires on 24V vehicles are thinner than them on 12V vehicles. Yes I
do know why.

"Dad, why are the wires made of lots of little thin wires?"
"There's one for each volt son."
"Dad, I've counted the thin wires in this thick one and there's 84. So
is that 84 volts?"
"It's your bedtime."

Bill

Yeahbut, I've never seen a 24 volt system on a car.

On 05/05/2021 02:44 PM, Tekkie� wrote:
If you have trouble cutting the wire while stripping insulation you are using a
notch size too small, cheap stripper or a knife. The trick is to start with a
bigger wire size and if that doesn't work go one size smaller. Let the stripper
do the work. Wire gauge is opposite of size i.e. 22 gauge is smaller than 18
gauge.

I bought a trailer light harness for the Toyota. When I looked at the
gauge of the taillight wiring and the tight location I decided I might
do it some other day if I really wanted to hook up the trailer.

That model is rated for towing in the US so a Y connector wasn't
available. Oddly in the Canadian manual it is rated for 500 lb max.

micky wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were.

I think it's probably a modern vs older, rather than japanese vs
american thing?

Car manufacturers seem to use "thin wall" cables now, using a tougher
grade of PVC so that a greater %age of the overall volume of the wire is
copper rather than plastic. Probably reduced copper too due to lower
current requirements, as others have mentioned.

micky wrote:
The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I've had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I'm not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.


It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don't try to make,
because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.



I thought it was to to with everything being CAN BUS now. Most of the
wires just carry signals, essential power is carried by fewer thicker
wires.

https://tekeye.uk/automotive/can-bus-cable-wiring

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

I put back the other two groups or William will never see it. ;-(

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 5 May 2021 19:52:26 -0700 (PDT), Dean
Hoffman wrote:

On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 9:02:13 PM UTC-5, williamwright wrote:
On 06/05/2021 02:25, Rod Speed wrote:

It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don't try to make,
because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.


The wires on 24V vehicles are thinner than them on 12V vehicles. Yes I
do know why.

"Dad, why are the wires made of lots of little thin wires?"
"There's one for each volt son."
"Dad, I've counted the thin wires in this thick one and there's 84. So
is that 84 volts?"
"It's your bedtime."

Very good.

Bill

Yeahbut, I've never seen a 24 volt system on a car.

My 50 Olds had room for a second battery, but it would have been a 2nd
6-volt battery. When you only have 6 volts, you often need a secodn
battery, but I never got one. One December night it wouldn't start and
for some reason I called AAA or something, and they couldn't start it
either.

They sold a device that would rearrange the connections of the two
batteries. Never had one but I think it went from parallel for charging
to series for starting.

On Wed, 5 May 2021 21:55:50 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


I bought a trailer light harness for the Toyota.

Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did!

When I looked at the gauge of the taillight wiring and the tight location
I decided I might do it some other day if I really wanted to hook up the trailer.

Yeah, he did! Yeah, he did!

That model is rated for towing in the US so a Y connector wasn't
available. Oddly in the Canadian manual it is rated for 500 lb max.

No, it isn't! No, it isn't!

On Thu, 6 May 2021 11:22:11 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

I wrote a nice, interesting answer, and then it all got lost in a crash.
It's so much harder to write the same thing again,

Yeah, its bloody annoying too.

Not as annoying as you trolling senile pest.

--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rodent:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID:

On Thu, 6 May 2021 11:25:43 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

Do you think it had to do with post-war poverty in Japan?

Nope

Simply unbelievable! LOL

Have the Americans made their wires thinner than in the 1990's?

Dunno. I've added another newsgroup, I troll in.

You are one pathetic trolling senile idiot indeed, senile Rodent! LOL

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing the auto-contradicting senile cretin:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

On 05/05/2021 11:57 PM, Tim+ wrote:
I thought it was to to with everything being CAN BUS now. Most of the
wires just carry signals, essential power is carried by fewer thicker
wires.

I'm guessing the tail light wires on the Toyota are 22 or 24 gauge. No
problem for the application but considerably smaller than on my old
('86) pickup.

I have no complaints with the car but it is not over-engineered as was
typical in Detroit's golden years.

williamwright wrote:
"Dad, why are the wires made of lots of little thin wires?"
"There's one for each volt son."

Wrong, of course. You should have said "there is 10 for every amp"
or similar.

rbowman wrote:
On 05/05/2021 11:57 PM, Tim+ wrote:
I thought it was to to with everything being CAN BUS now. Most of the
wires just carry signals, essential power is carried by fewer thicker
wires.

I'm guessing the tail light wires on the Toyota are 22 or 24 gauge. No
problem for the application but considerably smaller than on my old
('86) pickup.

I have no complaints with the car but it is not over-engineered as was
typical in Detroit's golden years.

Over-engineering is not good for the world as a whole.
To do it "just right" saves on resources.

Also in a modern car thje tail lights will be LED and use less power, so
the wires can be even thinner.

On 06/05/2021 02:25, Rod Speed wrote:


"micky" wrote in message
...
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 05 May 2021 15:16:19 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky
wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were.Â*Â* I've had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to
1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I'm not saying they are too thin, just thinner.Â* Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire.Â*Â*Â* Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was
short of
money and had to economize any way it could.Â*Â* Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.

3) Copper is expensive.

4) Weight.Â* Every pound counts towards EPA fuel ratings.Â* Seriously.
IIRC, domestic cars use mostly 20Ga wire.Â* I don't remember but
Japanese may use 22Ga.Â* There is a *lot* of wire in a car.

So you're agreeing that the Japanese use thinnner wire than the
Americans do?

Do you think it had to do with post-war poverty in Japan?

Nope, it took them quite a while before they did cars after
the war and they included stuff that was optional on the
local cars to get people to buy unknown cars.

Have the Americans made their wires thinner than in the 1990's?

Dunno. I've added another newsgroup, Jim in there prefers
american cars, not sure if its recent ones tho.

It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation.Â*Â* But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don't try to make,
because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes
it harder to repair it.



What I know is that my VW has LED lights at the rear and the wires going
to these lights are thinner than what would have been used in the past
for incandescent bulbs. The lights are controlled by a Can Bus signal.
Car manufacturers have had problems buy computer type chips!

--
Michael Chare

On Thu, 6 May 2021 07:50:42 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 05/05/2021 11:57 PM, Tim+ wrote:
I thought it was to to with everything being CAN BUS now. Most of the
wires just carry signals, essential power is carried by fewer thicker
wires.

I'm guessing the tail light wires on the Toyota are 22 or 24 gauge. No
problem for the application but considerably smaller than on my old
('86) pickup.

I have no complaints with the car but it is not over-engineered as was
typical in Detroit's golden years.

Tail lights used to draw a couple of amps, requiring larger fuses,
hence thicker wire.

You'll find that modern trailer harness assemblies, with built-in
protection circuitry, sometimes have trouble with old incandescent
bulb turn-on surge current in older trailers.

New cars may also have other kinds of limiters (faster), besides
fuses.

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2021 02:25, Rod Speed wrote:


"micky" wrote in message
...
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 05 May 2021 15:16:19 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky
wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were. I've had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to
1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I'm not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short
of
money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.

3) Copper is expensive.

4) Weight. Every pound counts towards EPA fuel ratings. Seriously.
IIRC, domestic cars use mostly 20Ga wire. I don't remember but
Japanese may use 22Ga. There is a *lot* of wire in a car.

So you're agreeing that the Japanese use thinnner wire than the
Americans do?

Do you think it had to do with post-war poverty in Japan?

Nope, it took them quite a while before they did cars after
the war and they included stuff that was optional on the
local cars to get people to buy unknown cars.

Have the Americans made their wires thinner than in the 1990's?

Dunno. I've added another newsgroup, Jim in there prefers
american cars, not sure if its recent ones tho.

It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don't try to
make,
because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and
makes
it harder to repair it.



What I know is that my VW has LED lights at the rear and the wires going
to these lights are thinner than what would have been used in the past for
incandescent bulbs. The lights are controlled by a Can Bus signal. Car
manufacturers have had problems buy computer type chips!

How old is the VW and how do you find the reliability ?

I have always bought those new, a Beetle and a Golf in 73 but lots
complained about small bits falling off in the 80s and 90s so I avoided
them when I replaced the Golf in 2006 with a Hyundai Getz which never
had a single warranty claim and no bits failing at all until just recently
when there is some problem with the windscreen washer bottle which
wont fill anymore which I havent got around to fixing.

I did have a few problems with the Golf, one head gasket problem
under warranty, one alternator diode pack failure, the bonnet
release cable broke, indicator relay failed, used quite a bit of oil
and it wasnt a leak.

The more recent than the beetles have always struck me as a
bit more complicated than they really need to be.

But some nice stuff like the current Golf even helps you with
the reversing camera when backing with a trailer. That would
be quite handy, I cant even see the trailer when its empty
with the Getz. Planning to replace the Getz with something
since it has no cruise control at all.

On Fri, 7 May 2021 03:15:00 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

03:15??? So you WILL be up and trolling ALL NIGHT LONG, yet again, you
despicable trolling senile cretin!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 06/05/2021 14:51, Rob wrote:
williamwright wrote:
"Dad, why are the wires made of lots of little thin wires?"
"There's one for each volt son."

Wrong, of course. You should have said "there is 10 for every amp"
or similar.


It wasn't me.

Bill

On 06/05/2021 18:15, Rod Speed wrote:


"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2021 02:25, Rod Speed wrote:


"micky" wrote in message
...
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 05 May 2021 15:16:19 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky
wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were.Â*Â* I've had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to
1995,
and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005.

I'm not saying they are too thin, just thinner.Â* Do you know why?

I see two poassible reasons.

1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using
thinner and thus cheaper wire.Â*Â*Â* Perhaps wires in American cars are
thinnner now too??

2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was
short of
money and had to economize any way it could.Â*Â* Thinner, cheaper wires
were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they
see no reason to change.

3) Copper is expensive.

4) Weight.Â* Every pound counts towards EPA fuel ratings.Â* Seriously.
IIRC, domestic cars use mostly 20Ga wire.Â* I don't remember but
Japanese may use 22Ga.Â* There is a *lot* of wire in a car.

So you're agreeing that the Japanese use thinnner wire than the
Americans do?

Do you think it had to do with post-war poverty in Japan?

Nope, it took them quite a while before they did cars after
the war and they included stuff that was optional on the
local cars to get people to buy unknown cars.

Have the Americans made their wires thinner than in the 1990's?

Dunno. I've added another newsgroup, Jim in there prefers
american cars, not sure if its recent ones tho.

It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be
more
careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation.Â*Â* But
the
wires are so thin that there have been connections I don't try to
make,
because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the
dashboard,
for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and
makes
it harder to repair it.



What I know is that my VW has LED lights at the rear and the wires
going to these lights are thinner than what would have been used in
the past for incandescent bulbs.Â* The lights are controlled by a Can
Bus signal. Car manufacturers have had problems buy computer type chips!

How old is the VW and how do you find the reliability ?

I have always bought those new, a Beetle and a Golf in 73 but lots
complained about small bits falling off in the 80s and 90s so I avoided
them when I replaced the Golf in 2006 with a Hyundai Getz which never
had a single warranty claim and no bits failing at all until just recently
when there is some problem with the windscreen washer bottle which
wont fill anymore which I havent got around to fixing.

I did have a few problems with the Golf, one head gasket problem
under warranty, one alternator diode pack failure, the bonnet
release cable broke, indicator relay failed, used quite a bit of oil
and it wasnt a leak.

The more recent than the beetles have always struck me as a
bit more complicated than they really need to be.

But some nice stuff like the current Golf even helps you with
the reversing camera when backing with a trailer. That would
be quite handy, I cant even see the trailer when its empty
with the Getz. Planning to replace the Getz with something
since it has no cruise control at all.

The car is now 4 years old, but has only done a low mileage. It has been
fine. I found out about the elecrics when I fitted a tow bar. There is
a box in the boot for the tow bar electrics. The box has cables going
towards the front to connect to the can bus and two thicker cables to
connect to a fuse box at the front. If there is a problem with a
trailer electrics a warning is shown on the panel infont of the driver.

--
Michael Chare

On 06 May 2021 13:52:55 GMT, Rob wrote:

rbowman wrote:
On 05/05/2021 11:57 PM, Tim+ wrote:
I thought it was to to with everything being CAN BUS now. Most of the
wires just carry signals, essential power is carried by fewer thicker
wires.

I'm guessing the tail light wires on the Toyota are 22 or 24 gauge. No
problem for the application but considerably smaller than on my old
('86) pickup.

I have no complaints with the car but it is not over-engineered as was
typical in Detroit's golden years.

The old cars were NOT over-engineered. They wer underengineered and
over-built

Over-engineering is not good for the world as a whole.
To do it "just right" saves on resources.

Also in a modern car thje tail lights will be LED and use less power, so
the wires can be even thinner.

In alt.home.repair, on 06 May 2021 13:52:55 GMT, Rob
wrote:

rbowman wrote:
On 05/05/2021 11:57 PM, Tim+ wrote:
I thought it was to to with everything being CAN BUS now. Most of the
wires just carry signals, essential power is carried by fewer thicker
wires.

I'm guessing the tail light wires on the Toyota are 22 or 24 gauge. No
problem for the application but considerably smaller than on my old
('86) pickup.

I have no complaints with the car but it is not over-engineered as was
typical in Detroit's golden years.

Over-engineering is not good for the world as a whole.
To do it "just right" saves on resources.

Also in a modern car thje tail lights will be LED and use less power, so
the wires can be even thinner.

But mine aren't leds. Nothing in the car is that except maybe a few
dashpanel lights.

Very little is related to CAN BUS. I think 2 pages out of 70 or so in
the wiring manual. (The wiring manual is about 300 pages. I'm
estimating how much of that actually shows wiring. )

On Wed, 05 May 2021 20:27:59 -0400, posted for all of us
to digest...



I wrote a nice, interesting answer, and then it all got lost in a crash.
It's so much harder to write the same thing again, but maybe tomorrow I
will. I also want to look at the car again.


We're all on the edges of our seats in anticipation.
John T.

I sent an email it bounced back, bad addy, LMAO

--
Tekkie

On Thu, 6 May 2021 06:15:12 +0100, Andy Burns posted for all of us to digest...


micky wrote:

The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my
American cars were.

I think it's probably a modern vs older, rather than japanese vs
american thing?

Car manufacturers seem to use "thin wall" cables now, using a tougher
grade of PVC so that a greater %age of the overall volume of the wire is
copper rather than plastic. Probably reduced copper too due to lower
current requirements, as others have mentioned.

The insulation is also soy based which ground rats, mice, etc find especially
tasty.

--
Tekkie