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Robert11
 
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Default Grounding Of Ground Wires In An Electrical Gang Box (how to handle the green ground wires)

Hi,

I posted a question a while back regarding whether it was code permissible
to ground
the green wire grounds in a gang box by using a single screw that was also
used to secure the
box to a wooden joist. Responses were that it was not, and you must use a
dedicated screw.
Good information.

One reply also said that:

"The code also requires that a suitable connector
must be used to splice the EGCs. just twisting them around each other
is no enough. "

Questions:

a. What's an EGC ?

b. does this mean that if I have, e.g., two green ground wires in a box, I
should twist them together with an Additional pigtail, put a screw
twist-type connector over them, and then just run the new single pigtail to
the ground screw ?

What's wrong with just twisting together the two green ground leads and
running them together to the
screw (perhaps adding a small flat washer over them if the buildup looks a
bit large for the screw head) ?
Adding an additional pigtail seems like a bit much.

Thoughts on ?

Thanks,
B.


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Doug Miller
 
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Default

In article , "Robert11" wrote:
Questions:

a. What's an EGC ?


Equipment Grounding Conductor, i.e. the bare (or green) wire.

b. does this mean that if I have, e.g., two green ground wires in a box, I
should twist them together with an Additional pigtail, put a screw
twist-type connector over them, and then just run the new single pigtail to
the ground screw ?


That's correct.

What's wrong with just twisting together the two green ground leads and
running them together to the
screw (perhaps adding a small flat washer over them if the buildup looks a
bit large for the screw head) ?


Two problems:

First, "just twisting [them] together" is not a Code-approved method of
joining them. An approved pressure connector (such as a wire nut) is
*required*.

Second, the Code also requires that terminals used with more than one
conductor must be specifically approved for use with more than one conductor.
"Adding a small flat washer over them" does not qualify.

Adding an additional pigtail seems like a bit much.


Perhaps, but it is what the Code requires.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
  #3   Report Post  
HorneTD
 
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Default

Robert11 wrote:
Hi,

I posted a question a while back regarding whether it was code permissible
to ground
the green wire grounds in a gang box by using a single screw that was also
used to secure the
box to a wooden joist. Responses were that it was not, and you must use a
dedicated screw.
Good information.

One reply also said that:

"The code also requires that a suitable connector
must be used to splice the EGCs. just twisting them around each other
is no enough. "

Questions:

a. What's an EGC ?

Grounding Conductor, Equipment. The conductor used to connect the
non–current-carrying metal parts of equipment, raceways, and other
enclosures to the system grounded conductor, the grounding electrode
conductor, or both, at the service equipment or at the source of a
separately derived system.

b. does this mean that if I have, e.g., two green ground wires in a box, I
should twist them together with an Additional pigtail, put a screw
twist-type connector over them, and then just run the new single pigtail to
the ground screw ?

You will need a second pig tail for the device if it needs one.
What's wrong with just twisting together the two green ground leads and
running them together to the
screw (perhaps adding a small flat washer over them if the buildup looks a
bit large for the screw head) ?
Adding an additional pigtail seems like a bit much.

Thoughts on ?

Thanks,
B.


That is in fact what the US NEC requires. There is a listed pressure
connector that has a hole in the tip for the longer EGC to be extended
to the grounding screw. It is commonly called a greenie. A crimp
sleeve can be used in the same way.
--
Tom H
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Eric Tonks
 
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Default

A method I have seen used around here (Ontario, Canada) is to run the
incoming ground wire under the box ground screw with a 4 to 6 inch length
extending past the screw, then use a wire nut to attach all the other ground
wires together. It keeps the wire bulk down to a minimum.


"HorneTD" wrote in message
nk.net...
Robert11 wrote:
Hi,

I posted a question a while back regarding whether it was code

permissible
to ground
the green wire grounds in a gang box by using a single screw that was

also
used to secure the
box to a wooden joist. Responses were that it was not, and you must use

a
dedicated screw.
Good information.

One reply also said that:

"The code also requires that a suitable connector
must be used to splice the EGCs. just twisting them around each other
is no enough. "

Questions:

a. What's an EGC ?

Grounding Conductor, Equipment. The conductor used to connect the
non–current-carrying metal parts of equipment, raceways, and other
enclosures to the system grounded conductor, the grounding electrode
conductor, or both, at the service equipment or at the source of a
separately derived system.

b. does this mean that if I have, e.g., two green ground wires in a

box, I
should twist them together with an Additional pigtail, put a screw
twist-type connector over them, and then just run the new single pigtail

to
the ground screw ?

You will need a second pig tail for the device if it needs one.
What's wrong with just twisting together the two green ground leads and
running them together to the
screw (perhaps adding a small flat washer over them if the buildup looks

a
bit large for the screw head) ?
Adding an additional pigtail seems like a bit much.

Thoughts on ?

Thanks,
B.


That is in fact what the US NEC requires. There is a listed pressure
connector that has a hole in the tip for the longer EGC to be extended
to the grounding screw. It is commonly called a greenie. A crimp
sleeve can be used in the same way.
--
Tom H



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The Real Tom
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 08:06:59 -0500, "Robert11"
wrote:

Hi,

I posted a question a while back regarding whether it was code permissible
to ground
the green wire grounds in a gang box by using a single screw that was also
used to secure the
box to a wooden joist. Responses were that it was not, and you must use a
dedicated screw.
Good information.

One reply also said that:

"The code also requires that a suitable connector
must be used to splice the EGCs. just twisting them around each other
is no enough. "


IMHO:

Questions:

a. What's an EGC ?


Equipment Grounding Conductor. (the typically green or bare ground
wire).


b. does this mean that if I have, e.g., two green ground wires in a box, I
should twist them together with an Additional pigtail, put a screw
twist-type connector over them, and then just run the new single pigtail to
the ground screw ?


Sounds good to me!

What's wrong with just twisting together the two green ground leads and
running them together to the
screw (perhaps adding a small flat washer over them if the buildup looks a
bit large for the screw head) ?


Have to find it, but only one single wire loop under the screw is
allowed.

Adding an additional pigtail seems like a bit much.


This is why some people, strip back the wires and crimp them and cut
them so only one long conductor is left, and that is put under the
ground screw. There are 'greenies', wire nuts too.

http://www.toolup.com/productinfo.as...92&Manuf=Ideal

hth,

tom @ www.MedicalJobList.com



Thoughts on ?

Thanks,
B.




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toller
 
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Default



First, "just twisting [them] together" is not a Code-approved method of
joining them. An approved pressure connector (such as a wire nut) is
*required*.

Around here they require grounds to be crimped together; wire nuts are not
acceptable. Don't know why.


  #7   Report Post  
Eric Tonks
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"toller" wrote in message
...


First, "just twisting [them] together" is not a Code-approved method of
joining them. An approved pressure connector (such as a wire nut) is
*required*.

Around here they require grounds to be crimped together; wire nuts are not
acceptable. Don't know why.

With the grounds crimped together, it would create a problem to change some
of the newer electronic switches/timers/dimmers that need grounds. I find
that todays equipment often fails or need changing to update automation
controls. Cutting and crimping grounds could shorten the wires too much.
Wire nuts seem a better method in my opinion.


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HorneTD
 
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Default

toller wrote:
First, "just twisting [them] together" is not a Code-approved method of
joining them. An approved pressure connector (such as a wire nut) is
*required*.


Around here they require grounds to be crimped together; wire nuts are not
acceptable. Don't know why.


That policy is often the result of a misapplication of 250.64 (C) which
only applies to Grounding Electrode Conductors. Several jurisdictions
have mistakenly applied this section to Equipment Grounding Conductors
thus requiring crimp sleeves. Some of the larger electrical contracting
firms have begun appealing this misapplication of the code because the
crimp sleeves require a special tool and more time to apply thus raising
the cost of the work needlessly.

250.64 Grounding Electrode Conductor Installation.
Grounding electrode conductors shall be installed as specified in
250.64(A) through (F).
(C) Continuous. The grounding electrode conductor shall be installed in
one continuous length without a splice or joint, unless spliced only by
irreversible compression-type connectors listed for the purpose or by
the exothermic welding process.
--
Tom H
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