Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a well.
Aren't wells more often dug nearer to the bottom of a hill?

--
Please say where you live, or what
area's English you are asking about.
So your question or answer makes sense.
. .
I have lived all my life in the USA,
Western Pa. Indianapolis, Chicago,
Brooklyn, Baltimore.

"micky" wrote in message
...
Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a well.
Aren't wells more often dug nearer to the bottom of a hill?

Not necessarily. particularly with springs.

On 14/02/2021 06:00, micky wrote:
Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a well.
Aren't wells more often dug nearer to the bottom of a hill?

There are plenty of lakes half way up hills and even some mountains.

On 14/02/2021 06:26, Bod wrote:
On 14/02/2021 06:00, micky wrote:
Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a well.
Aren't wells more often dug nearer to the bottom of a hill?

There are plenty of lakes half way up hills and even some mountains.


What we really need to know, is how on earth does contrary Mary make her
garden grow using cockleshells.....silver bells and pretty maids.

Mary, Mary, quite contrary
How does your garden grow?
With silver bells and cockleshells
And pretty maids all in a row
And pretty maids all in a row

"Bod" wrote in message
...
On 14/02/2021 06:26, Bod wrote:
On 14/02/2021 06:00, micky wrote:
Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a well.
Aren't wells more often dug nearer to the bottom of a hill?

There are plenty of lakes half way up hills and even some mountains.


What we really need to know, is how on earth does contrary Mary make her
garden grow using cockleshells.....silver bells and pretty maids.

Mary, Mary, quite contrary
How does your garden grow?
With silver bells and cockleshells
And pretty maids all in a row
And pretty maids all in a row

The pretty maids all in a row are the gardeners and
they crush up the cockleshells to fix the acid soil.

The silver bells keep the herbivores from eating the plants.

In article ,
says...

On 14/02/2021 06:26, Bod wrote:
On 14/02/2021 06:00, micky wrote:
Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a well.
Aren't wells more often dug nearer to the bottom of a hill?

There are plenty of lakes half way up hills and even some mountains.


What we really need to know, is how on earth does contrary Mary make her
garden grow using cockleshells.....silver bells and pretty maids.

Mary, Mary, quite contrary
How does your garden grow?
With silver bells and cockleshells
And pretty maids all in a row
And pretty maids all in a row

Crushed seashells provide a slow release of calcium to balance soils
with a high Ph, and improve drainage. Adding crushed shells to an acid
or peaty soil is an old gardening trick.

Janet

On 14/02/2021 09:20, Janet wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 14/02/2021 06:26, Bod wrote:
On 14/02/2021 06:00, micky wrote:
Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a well.
Aren't wells more often dug nearer to the bottom of a hill?

There are plenty of lakes half way up hills and even some mountains.


What we really need to know, is how on earth does contrary Mary make her
garden grow using cockleshells.....silver bells and pretty maids.

Mary, Mary, quite contrary
How does your garden grow?
With silver bells and cockleshells
And pretty maids all in a row
And pretty maids all in a row

Crushed seashells provide a slow release of calcium to balance soils
with a high Ph, and improve drainage. Adding crushed shells to an acid
or peaty soil is an old gardening trick.

Janet






And the silver bells? :-)

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 19:53:48 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


The silver bells keep the herbivores from eating the plants.

What will keep YOU from trolling in ngs that are all absolutely NONE of
yours, senile Ozzietard?

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On 2/14/21 1:00 AM, micky wrote:
Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a well.
Aren't wells more often dug nearer to the bottom of a hill?

"Fact checking" revealed the two actually went down the hill to fetch a COVID shot.

Jack and Gill
Went down the hill
To get a COVID shot
Jack let out a sneeze
And cut the cheese,
And Gill was covered in snot.

On 14/02/21 22:04, Bill Gates wrote:
On 2/14/21 1:00 AM, micky wrote:
Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a well.
Aren't wells more often dug nearer to the bottom of a hill?

"Fact checking" revealed the two actually went down the hill to fetch a
COVID shot.

Jack and Gill
Went down the hill
To get a COVID shot
Jack let out a sneeze
And cut the cheese,
And Gill was covered in snot.

Perhaps; but they also went up the hill for a bit of privacy.

Jack and Jill
Went up the hill
For just an itty bitty.
Jill's now two months overdue
And Jack has left the city.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 06:04:22 -0500, Bill Gates
wrote:

On 2/14/21 1:00 AM, micky wrote:
Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a well.
Aren't wells more often dug nearer to the bottom of a hill?

"Fact checking" revealed the two actually went down the hill to fetch a COVID shot.

Jack and Gill
Went down the hill
To get a COVID shot
Jack let out a sneeze
And cut the cheese,
And Gill was covered in snot.


Jacquie and Jill went up the hill
to find a viable donor
IVF was done - they have a spawn
They named them X Æ A-12

John T.

A different version :
Jack and Jill went up the hill
they each had a buck and a quarter
Jill came down with $2.50
What a slut


--
Snag
In 1775, the British demanded we give them our guns.
We shot them.

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 06:26:06 +0000, Bod wrote:

On 14/02/2021 06:00, micky wrote:
Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a well.
Aren't wells more often dug nearer to the bottom of a hill?

There are plenty of lakes half way up hills and even some mountains.

Yes.
This is a lake in Snowdonia, the mountainous area of North Wales[1]:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowdo...rib_Goch_2.jpg

There is the word "tarn" for such a lake.

OED:
tarn, n.

Origin: A borrowing from early Scandinavian. Etymon: Norse *tarnu.

Etymology: Middle English terne, Old Norse *tarnu, tjorn, tjörn;
= Swedish dialect tjärn, tärn, Norwegian tjörn, Danish tjern.

A small mountain lake, having no significant tributaries.
(Originally local northern English, now generally used by
geologists and geographers.

More he
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarn_(lake)

[1] More lakes and tarns in Snowdonia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowdonia#Lakes

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 1:00:58 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a well.

Some sort of hillside spring, perhaps?

Cindy Hamilton

On 2/14/21 9:44 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 1:00:58 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a well.

Some sort of hillside spring, perhaps?

Cindy Hamilton


Origin story he http://www.rhymes.org.uk/jack_and_jill.htm

"Bod" wrote in message
...
On 14/02/2021 09:20, Janet wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 14/02/2021 06:26, Bod wrote:
On 14/02/2021 06:00, micky wrote:
Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a
well.
Aren't wells more often dug nearer to the bottom of a hill?

There are plenty of lakes half way up hills and even some mountains.


What we really need to know, is how on earth does contrary Mary make her
garden grow using cockleshells.....silver bells and pretty maids.

Mary, Mary, quite contrary
How does your garden grow?
With silver bells and cockleshells
And pretty maids all in a row
And pretty maids all in a row

Crushed seashells provide a slow release of calcium to balance soils
with a high Ph, and improve drainage. Adding crushed shells to an acid
or peaty soil is an old gardening trick.

And the silver bells? :-)

Those keep the herbivores from eating your vegies.

* micky:

Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down

and proceeded to drown,
but her gills saved Gill from slaughter.

Sorry, not used to the spelling "Gill".

--
They're telling the truth. [...] I know what you mean. There's
another truth that they're not telling. But newspapers never
do, that's not what they're for.
-- James Baldwin, Giovanni's Room

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 14 Feb 2021 10:01:22 -0500,
wrote:

On 2/14/21 9:44 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 1:00:58 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a well.

Some sort of hillside spring, perhaps?

Good idea. Maybe so.

Cindy Hamilton


Origin story he http://www.rhymes.org.uk/jack_and_jill.htm

Oops. I guess water wasn't the biggest issue.

On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 03:21:40 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


And the silver bells? :-)

Those keep the herbivores from eating your vegies.

Says who (other than you), senile bull**** artist? Post PROOF.

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

On 2/14/2021 10:00 AM, Quinn C wrote:
* micky:

Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down

and proceeded to drown,
but her gills saved Gill from slaughter.

Sorry, not used to the spelling "Gill".


It's always been "Jack and Jill" to me. Oddly, it' spelled "Jill" in the
subject line, but "Gill" in the text.

Since the well-known word for a fish's breathing organ is "gill,"
pronounced with a hard "g," when I saw "Jack and Gill, I wanted to also
pronounce "Gill" with a hard "g."


--
Ken

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 11:48:56 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On 2/14/2021 10:00 AM, Quinn C wrote:
* micky:

Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down

and proceeded to drown,
but her gills saved Gill from slaughter.

Sorry, not used to the spelling "Gill".


It's always been "Jack and Jill" to me. Oddly, it' spelled "Jill" in the
subject line, but "Gill" in the text.

Since the well-known word for a fish's breathing organ is "gill,"
pronounced with a hard "g," when I saw "Jack and Gill, I wanted to also
pronounce "Gill" with a hard "g."

Gill, pronounced Jill, may be short for Gillian.

Perhaps Jack is short for Jacqueline. (Just to confuse matters.)

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 01:00:49 -0500, micky
wrote:

Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a well.
Aren't wells more often dug nearer to the bottom of a hill?

To get clean water. Water at the bottom of the hill collects all the
**** on the hill. A spring up the hill is probably safe to drink.

OTOH this is a nursery rhyme, not a tutorial on safe drinking water
.... even if it is somewhat valid.

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 07:13:55 -0600, Snag wrote:

A different version :
Jack and Jill went up the hill
they each had a buck and a quarter
Jill came down with $2.50
What a slut

Dice had a spin on Little Miss Muffett too.

On 14/02/2021 18:48, Ken Blake wrote:
On 2/14/2021 10:00 AM, Quinn C wrote:
* micky:

Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down

Â*Â* and proceeded to drown,
Â*Â* but her gills saved Gill from slaughter.

Sorry, not used to the spelling "Gill".


It's always been "Jack and Jill" to me. Oddly, it' spelled "Jill" in the
subject line, but "Gill" in the text.

Since the well-known word for a fish's breathing organ is "gill,"
pronounced with a hard "g," when I saw "Jack and Gill, I wanted to also
pronounce "Gill" with a hard "g."


One sixth of a gill (soft g) was the standard measure for spirits in a
pub WIWAL.

On 2/14/2021 12:43 PM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 11:48:56 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On 2/14/2021 10:00 AM, Quinn C wrote:
* micky:

Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down

and proceeded to drown,
but her gills saved Gill from slaughter.

Sorry, not used to the spelling "Gill".


It's always been "Jack and Jill" to me. Oddly, it' spelled "Jill" in the
subject line, but "Gill" in the text.

Since the well-known word for a fish's breathing organ is "gill,"
pronounced with a hard "g," when I saw "Jack and Gill, I wanted to also
pronounce "Gill" with a hard "g."

Gill, pronounced Jill, may be short for Gillian.


I thought Gillian was pronounced with a hard G, so I just went to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yNdPOg-5JM

According to that site, it has a hard G everywhere but in the UK.


--
Ken

On 2/14/2021 1:51 PM, phil wrote:
On 14/02/2021 18:48, Ken Blake wrote:
On 2/14/2021 10:00 AM, Quinn C wrote:
* micky:

Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down

Â*Â* and proceeded to drown,
Â*Â* but her gills saved Gill from slaughter.

Sorry, not used to the spelling "Gill".


It's always been "Jack and Jill" to me. Oddly, it' spelled "Jill" in the
subject line, but "Gill" in the text.

Since the well-known word for a fish's breathing organ is "gill,"
pronounced with a hard "g," when I saw "Jack and Gill, I wanted to also
pronounce "Gill" with a hard "g."


One sixth of a gill (soft g) was the standard measure for spirits in a
pub WIWAL.


I know of the unit of volume gill, but in my experience it's very rarely
used in the USA. I don't think I've ever heard it, and I always thought
it was pronounced like the fish organ, with a hard G. Your message
prompted a web search, and I see that I was wrong.


--
Ken

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 06:44:42 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 1:00:58 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a well.

Some sort of hillside spring, perhaps?

Cindy Hamilton
A Hydrogeological Dome - very common - where the water is trapped in
the sand and gravel in the hill - a well there gives good clean water
(and the wellcan be very shallow)

* Peter Duncanson [BrE]:

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 11:48:56 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On 2/14/2021 10:00 AM, Quinn C wrote:
* micky:

Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down

and proceeded to drown,
but her gills saved Gill from slaughter.

Sorry, not used to the spelling "Gill".


It's always been "Jack and Jill" to me. Oddly, it' spelled "Jill" in the
subject line, but "Gill" in the text.

Since the well-known word for a fish's breathing organ is "gill,"
pronounced with a hard "g," when I saw "Jack and Gill, I wanted to also
pronounce "Gill" with a hard "g."

Gill, pronounced Jill, may be short for Gillian.

Perhaps Jack is short for Jacqueline. (Just to confuse matters.)

Gill could be Terry Gilliam.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

* Ken Blake:

On 2/14/2021 12:43 PM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:

Gill, pronounced Jill, may be short for Gillian.

I thought Gillian was pronounced with a hard G, so I just went to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yNdPOg-5JM

According to that site, it has a hard G everywhere but in the UK.

The first speaker in the video you link is from California and uses soft
G.

On Forvo, it's US 3:1 soft, UK 3:0 soft, Austalia 1:0 soft and Canada
2:1 soft. But most of these examples are with last name attached, and
speakers might know the preference of a specific person by that name (G.
Anderson is the only one I know. She's American and has a soft G; I
checked three interviews.)

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

On 2/14/21 3:24 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 01:00:49 -0500, micky
wrote:

Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down
And broke his crown,
And Gill came tumbling after.


Why would anyone go up a hill to get water?

Water should be at the bottom of the hill, at the stream, or at a well.
Aren't wells more often dug nearer to the bottom of a hill?

To get clean water. Water at the bottom of the hill collects all the
**** on the hill. A spring up the hill is probably safe to drink.

OTOH this is a nursery rhyme, not a tutorial on safe drinking water
... even if it is somewhat valid.

Jack and Jill went up the hill,
Each with a buck and a quarter.
Jill came down with two and a half.
Do you think they went up for water?

--
I overheard a lady in the checkout line talking to her daughter about
the need to raise the minimum wage. We were in a self-checkout...

On 14/02/2021 21:01, Ken Blake wrote:
On 2/14/2021 1:51 PM, phil wrote:
On 14/02/2021 18:48, Ken Blake wrote:
On 2/14/2021 10:00 AM, Quinn C wrote:
* micky:

Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down

Â*Â* and proceeded to drown,
Â*Â* but her gills saved Gill from slaughter.

Sorry, not used to the spelling "Gill".


It's always been "Jack and Jill" to me. Oddly, it' spelled "Jill" in
the subject line, but "Gill" in the text.

Since the well-known word for a fish's breathing organ is "gill,"
pronounced with a hard "g," when I saw "Jack and Gill, I wanted to
also pronounce "Gill" with a hard "g."


One sixth of a gill (soft g) was the standard measure for spirits in a
pub WIWAL.


I know of the unit of volume gill, but in my experience it's very rarely
used in the USA. I don't think I've ever heard it, and I always thought
it was pronounced like the fish organ, with a hard G. Your message
prompted a web search, and I see that I was wrong.



Looking at the Wiki article, I see that a gill is also a teacup. We are
in cross-thread territory. A teacup, of course is not the same as a cup,
although a US gill is half a cup.

And half a gill is a jack, which brings us nicely back to the original
topic.

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 13:55:20 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On 2/14/2021 12:43 PM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 11:48:56 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On 2/14/2021 10:00 AM, Quinn C wrote:
* micky:

Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down

and proceeded to drown,
but her gills saved Gill from slaughter.

Sorry, not used to the spelling "Gill".


It's always been "Jack and Jill" to me. Oddly, it' spelled "Jill" in the
subject line, but "Gill" in the text.

Since the well-known word for a fish's breathing organ is "gill,"
pronounced with a hard "g," when I saw "Jack and Gill, I wanted to also
pronounce "Gill" with a hard "g."

Gill, pronounced Jill, may be short for Gillian.


I thought Gillian was pronounced with a hard G, so I just went to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yNdPOg-5JM

According to that site, it has a hard G everywhere but in the UK.

Interesting.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 17:19:15 -0500, Quinn C
wrote:

* Ken Blake:

On 2/14/2021 12:43 PM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:

Gill, pronounced Jill, may be short for Gillian.

I thought Gillian was pronounced with a hard G, so I just went to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yNdPOg-5JM

According to that site, it has a hard G everywhere but in the UK.

The first speaker in the video you link is from California and uses soft
G.

On Forvo, it's US 3:1 soft, UK 3:0 soft, Austalia 1:0 soft and Canada
2:1 soft. But most of these examples are with last name attached, and
speakers might know the preference of a specific person by that name (G.
Anderson is the only one I know. She's American and has a soft G; I
checked three interviews.)

Gillian Anderson was born in the US but spent some of her childhood in
England.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillia...son#Early_life

Soon after her birth, her parents moved to Puerto Rico for 15
months, then to London. The family relocated so that her father
could attend the London Film School. During her childhood, she lived
in north London's Crouch End and Haringey. She was a pupil of
Coleridge Primary School. When Anderson was 11 years old, her family
returned to the United States, settling in Grand Rapids,
Michigan. They continued to keep a flat in London, and spent their
summers there. Anderson later said that she had always intended to
return to England.
....
Anderson is bidialectal. With her English accent and background, she
was mocked and felt out of place as a teenager in the American
Midwest and soon adopted a Midwestern accent. To this day, she
easily shifts between her American and English accents.

just speculating
Perhaps her name was originally said with hard-g by her parents but was
changed to soft when she was at school in England. Soft is the way the
teachers and children would have said it.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Peter Duncanson:
Gill, pronounced Jill, may be short for Gillian.

Ken Blake:
I thought Gillian was pronounced with a hard G, so I just went to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yNdPOg-5JM

According to that site, it has a hard G everywhere but in the UK.

I've never heard it with a hard G, and I used to have a boss whose
name was Gill. I don't know if her name was short for Gillian or not.
--
Mark Brader "HE'S the brains of the outfit."
Toronto "What does that make you?"
"What else? An executive!"
-- the Rocky & Bullwinkle show

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 23:16:25 +0000, phil wrote:

On 14/02/2021 21:01, Ken Blake wrote:
On 2/14/2021 1:51 PM, phil wrote:
On 14/02/2021 18:48, Ken Blake wrote:
On 2/14/2021 10:00 AM, Quinn C wrote:
* micky:

Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down

Â*Â* and proceeded to drown,
Â*Â* but her gills saved Gill from slaughter.

Sorry, not used to the spelling "Gill".


It's always been "Jack and Jill" to me. Oddly, it' spelled "Jill" in
the subject line, but "Gill" in the text.

Since the well-known word for a fish's breathing organ is "gill,"
pronounced with a hard "g," when I saw "Jack and Gill, I wanted to
also pronounce "Gill" with a hard "g."


One sixth of a gill (soft g) was the standard measure for spirits in a
pub WIWAL.


I know of the unit of volume gill, but in my experience it's very rarely
used in the USA. I don't think I've ever heard it, and I always thought
it was pronounced like the fish organ, with a hard G. Your message
prompted a web search, and I see that I was wrong.



Looking at the Wiki article, I see that a gill is also a teacup. We are
in cross-thread territory. A teacup, of course is not the same as a cup,
although a US gill is half a cup.

And half a gill is a jack, which brings us nicely back to the original
topic.

"A Gill and a Half
went up the hill
..."


--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

On 2/14/2021 3:19 PM, Quinn C wrote:
* Ken Blake:

On 2/14/2021 12:43 PM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:

Gill, pronounced Jill, may be short for Gillian.

I thought Gillian was pronounced with a hard G, so I just went to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yNdPOg-5JM

According to that site, it has a hard G everywhere but in the UK.

The first speaker in the video you link is from California and uses soft
G.


You're right. Somehow I missed that.


On Forvo, it's US 3:1 soft, UK 3:0 soft, Austalia 1:0 soft and Canada
2:1 soft. But most of these examples are with last name attached, and
speakers might know the preference of a specific person by that name (G.
Anderson is the only one I know. She's American and has a soft G; I
checked three interviews.)



--
Ken

"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 13:55:20 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On 2/14/2021 12:43 PM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 11:48:56 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On 2/14/2021 10:00 AM, Quinn C wrote:
* micky:

Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down

and proceeded to drown,
but her gills saved Gill from slaughter.

Sorry, not used to the spelling "Gill".


It's always been "Jack and Jill" to me. Oddly, it' spelled "Jill" in the
subject line, but "Gill" in the text.

Since the well-known word for a fish's breathing organ is "gill,"
pronounced with a hard "g," when I saw "Jack and Gill, I wanted to also
pronounce "Gill" with a hard "g."

Gill, pronounced Jill, may be short for Gillian.


I thought Gillian was pronounced with a hard G, so I just went to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yNdPOg-5JM

According to that site, it has a hard G everywhere but in the UK.

Interesting.

But that site got that wrong.

On 02/14/2021 12:43 PM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 11:48:56 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On 2/14/2021 10:00 AM, Quinn C wrote:
* micky:

Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down

and proceeded to drown,
but her gills saved Gill from slaughter.

Sorry, not used to the spelling "Gill".


It's always been "Jack and Jill" to me. Oddly, it' spelled "Jill" in the
subject line, but "Gill" in the text.

Since the well-known word for a fish's breathing organ is "gill,"
pronounced with a hard "g," when I saw "Jack and Gill, I wanted to also
pronounce "Gill" with a hard "g."

Gill, pronounced Jill, may be short for Gillian.

Perhaps Jack is short for Jacqueline. (Just to confuse matters.)


Are you saying Jaqueline was misgendered in 'broke his crown' or Jack
used to be Jacqueline and was gendered correctly?

On 02/14/2021 01:51 PM, phil wrote:
On 14/02/2021 18:48, Ken Blake wrote:
On 2/14/2021 10:00 AM, Quinn C wrote:
* micky:

Jack and Gill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down

and proceeded to drown,
but her gills saved Gill from slaughter.

Sorry, not used to the spelling "Gill".


It's always been "Jack and Jill" to me. Oddly, it' spelled "Jill" in
the subject line, but "Gill" in the text.

Since the well-known word for a fish's breathing organ is "gill,"
pronounced with a hard "g," when I saw "Jack and Gill, I wanted to
also pronounce "Gill" with a hard "g."


One sixth of a gill (soft g) was the standard measure for spirits in a
pub WIWAL.


https://www.britannica.com/science/gill-measurement

The gill was introduced in the 14th century to measure individual
servings of whiskey or wine. The term jill appears in the nursery rhyme
€œJack and Jill.€� Soon after ascending to the throne of England in 1625,
King Charles I scaled down the jack or jackpot (sometimes known as a
double jigger) in order to collect higher sales taxes. The jill, by
definition twice the size of the jack, was automatically reduced also
and €œcame tumbling after.€�

Another expert heard from. Here I've been mispronouncing gill all my
life, at least when reading to myself. I never had a need to vocalize it
in conversation.

On 02/14/2021 02:01 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
I know of the unit of volume gill, but in my experience it's very rarely
used in the USA. I don't think I've ever heard it, and I always thought
it was pronounced like the fish organ, with a hard G. Your message
prompted a web search, and I see that I was wrong.

I associate it with arcane old recipes like 'take one gill of pennyroyal
oil...' I never had reason to dig into whet either was.