On 8/6/2020 5:22 AM, Bod wrote:
On 06/08/2020 04:42, Bod wrote:
On 06/08/2020 04:37, Bod wrote:
On 06/08/2020 04:34, Muggles wrote:
Bod Wrote in message:r
Religion does more harm than good - poll | UK news | The
...www.theguardian.com ? uk ? dec ? religion.topstories322 Dec 2006
- Religion does more harm than good - poll | UK news | The
Guardian. ... 82% say faith causes tension in country where two
thirds are not religious ... massive doubts about the effect
religion has on society: 82% of those questioned say they see
religion as a cause of division and tension between people.

....


That's because religion is created by people who want to control
Â* other people.Â* Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and
Â* belief in a living God.


It Doesn't !?Â* Explain further please,Â* because I don't understand that.


You seem to have your own personal description of the word because
yours is not the dictionary description of religion.

religion

noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power,
especially a personal God or gods.

https://www.google.com/search?client...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


Religion does more harm than good - poll | UK news | The
...www.theguardian.com ? uk ? dec ? religion.topstories322 Dec 2006 -
Religion does more harm than good - poll | UK news | The Guardian. ...
82% say faith causes tension in country where two thirds are not
religious ... massive doubts about the effect religion has on society:
82% of those questioned say they see religion as a cause of division and
tension between people.


Religion is created by people who want to control other people.

A relationship with Christ has nothing to do with religion. *Religion
is tied to denominational practices*, and each denomination has their
own rules and beliefs on how people should follow God as a group.

I'm NON-denominational and not tied to one Christian religion


Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a living God.

--
Maggie

On Thursday, August 6, 2020 at 9:39:26 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 5:22 AM, Bod wrote:
On 06/08/2020 04:42, Bod wrote:
On 06/08/2020 04:37, Bod wrote:
On 06/08/2020 04:34, Muggles wrote:
Bod Wrote in message:r
Religion does more harm than good - poll | UK news | The
...www.theguardian.com ? uk ? dec ? religion.topstories322 Dec 2006
- Religion does more harm than good - poll | UK news | The
Guardian. ... 82% say faith causes tension in country where two
thirds are not religious ... massive doubts about the effect
religion has on society: 82% of those questioned say they see
religion as a cause of division and tension between people.

....


That's because religion is created by people who want to control
Â* other people.Â* Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and
Â* belief in a living God.


It Doesn't !?Â* Explain further please,Â* because I don't understand that.


You seem to have your own personal description of the word because
yours is not the dictionary description of religion.

religion

noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power,
especially a personal God or gods.

https://www.google.com/search?client...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


Religion does more harm than good - poll | UK news | The
...www.theguardian.com ? uk ? dec ? religion.topstories322 Dec 2006 -
Religion does more harm than good - poll | UK news | The Guardian. ...
82% say faith causes tension in country where two thirds are not
religious ... massive doubts about the effect religion has on society:
82% of those questioned say they see religion as a cause of division and
tension between people.


Religion is created by people who want to control other people.

A relationship with Christ has nothing to do with religion. *Religion
is tied to denominational practices*, and each denomination has their
own rules and beliefs on how people should follow God as a group.

I'm NON-denominational and not tied to one Christian religion


Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a living God..

--
Maggie

There are religions besides Christianity.

Cindy Hamilton

On 8/6/2020 9:20 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Thursday, August 6, 2020 at 9:39:26 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 5:22 AM, Bod wrote:
On 06/08/2020 04:42, Bod wrote:
On 06/08/2020 04:37, Bod wrote:
On 06/08/2020 04:34, Muggles wrote:
Bod Wrote in message:r
Religion does more harm than good - poll | UK news | The
...www.theguardian.com ? uk ? dec ? religion.topstories322 Dec 2006
- Religion does more harm than good - poll | UK news | The
Guardian. ... 82% say faith causes tension in country where two
thirds are not religious ... massive doubts about the effect
religion has on society: 82% of those questioned say they see
religion as a cause of division and tension between people.

....


That's because religion is created by people who want to control
Â* other people.Â* Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and
Â* belief in a living God.


It Doesn't !?Â* Explain further please,Â* because I don't understand that.


You seem to have your own personal description of the word because
yours is not the dictionary description of religion.

religion

noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power,
especially a personal God or gods.

https://www.google.com/search?client...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


Religion does more harm than good - poll | UK news | The
...www.theguardian.com ? uk ? dec ? religion.topstories322 Dec 2006 -
Religion does more harm than good - poll | UK news | The Guardian. ...
82% say faith causes tension in country where two thirds are not
religious ... massive doubts about the effect religion has on society:
82% of those questioned say they see religion as a cause of division and
tension between people.


Religion is created by people who want to control other people.

A relationship with Christ has nothing to do with religion. *Religion
is tied to denominational practices*, and each denomination has their
own rules and beliefs on how people should follow God as a group.

I'm NON-denominational and not tied to one Christian religion


Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a living God.



There are religions besides Christianity.


They were also created by people who want to control other people.

--
Maggie

On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.

When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.

On 8/6/2020 8:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.

When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


And society benefits even more when the voters decide to support each other.

On 2020-08-06 21:13, Bob F wrote:
On 8/6/2020 8:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.

When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


And society benefits even more when the voters decide to support each
other.


Good. Then drop the commie stuff and support the president.

On Thu, 6 Aug 2020 21:19:38 -0700, T wrote:

On 2020-08-06 21:13, Bob F wrote:
On 8/6/2020 8:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.

When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


And society benefits even more when the voters decide to support each
other.


Good. Then drop the commie stuff and support the president.

We support sending him to prison. Watch for that to happen when he loses
the election and loses his legal protection.

-sdg

On 07/08/2020 05:19, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 21:13, Bob F wrote:
On 8/6/2020 8:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.

When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


And society benefits even more when the voters decide to support each
other.


Good.Â* Then drop the commie stuff and support the president.

Why would he support a habitual liar?

On 8/6/2020 10:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.


When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

That's why I'm non-denominational.


Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


True...
--
Maggie

On 07/08/2020 15:24, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 10:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.


When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

That's why I'm non-denominational.


Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


True...

I'm a conservative and don't hate anyone or anything.

On 8/7/2020 9:36 AM, Bod wrote:
On 07/08/2020 15:24, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 10:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.


When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

That's why I'm non-denominational.


Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


True...

I'm a conservative and don't hate anyone or anything.


You behave as if you hate a number of people just because they're
opposition politically to you.

--
Maggie

On 07/08/2020 16:32, Muggles wrote:
On 8/7/2020 9:36 AM, Bod wrote:
On 07/08/2020 15:24, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 10:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.


When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

That's why I'm non-denominational.


Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


True...

I'm a conservative and don't hate anyone or anything.


You behave as if you hate a number of people just because they're
opposition politically to you.

I point out stupidity/liars etc.

On 8/7/20 10:24 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 10:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.


When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

That's why I'm non-denominational.


Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


True...

Most religions contend: We are right, everyone else is wrong, we are
better than you.

--
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from
۬religious conviction.
- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

On 2020-08-07 15:25, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 8/7/20 10:24 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 10:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.


When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

That's why I'm non-denominational.


Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


True...

Most religions contend: We are right, everyone else is wrong, we are
better than you.


Hi Wade,

You must not have had much exposure to Christians.
Yes there are some obnoxious ones who are not
evangelizing correctly. They are just learning.
They will get there eventually. Just ignore them
for now.

Here is what Christianity teaches:

Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what
judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with
the measure you use, it will be measured back to
you. And why do you look at the speck in your
brothers eye, but do not consider the plank in
your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother,
€˜Let me remove the speck from your eye; and look,
a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove
the plank from your own eye, and then you will
see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers
eye.
--Matthew 7, 1-5 KJV


A Story about Judging Others
https://myocn.net/a-story-about-judging-others/

Summary:
Judging others is a great sin, my brothers and
sisters and we should never concern ourselves
with the failings and misdemeanors of other people.
Its none of our business. What we do is for
ourselves. For our own part, anything we see or
hear, we just have to forgive, love and try to
help people as much as we can.

The full version, which you should read. It will
introduce you to Christianity.

The late Papa-Nikodimos, a spiritual father from the Skete
of Kavsokalyvia told me the following story, which is
recorded in Athonite Patristic manuscripts.

There was a devout Christian who went to his confessor
for fifteen years and told him his human weaknesses.
One day he went as usual to make his confession, but
when he opened the door he found the man fornicating
with a woman. He left immediately and, as he did so,
he said to himself: €˜What on earths just ?. This is
terrible. Ive been confessing to him for years and
now what am I going to do? Will I go to hell? All
the sins Ive confessed to him, given hes such a
sinner, are they forgiven or not? All they all still
unforgiven? The man was stunned at the evil that had
befallen him and didnt know what to do.

After hed left, he became thirsty on the way back
home. He carried on for a little and came across a
small brook, in which pure water babbled. He bent
down and drank. He slaked his thirst and didnt feel
at all like leaving, because he wanted to drink
some more of that lovely water. Then a thought
crossed his mind: €˜If the streams so good down
here, how much more so will it be near where it
starts? With this thought he set out to follow
the brook back to its source. But when he got
there, what did he see? He saw the water coming
out of the dead, dirty carcass of a dog. The
water was coming out of the dogs mouth! Then
he sighed deeply and said. €˜What a thing to
happen to me, wretch that I am. Ive been
polluted by this filthy water. It seems Im a
great sinner and very impure if these things
are happening to me.

He was really troubled by this, but then an angel
of the Lord appeared to him and said: €˜Why are
you troubled and saddened by whats happening
to you? When you drank the water from the brook,
didnt you enjoy it, because it was so pure?
You couldnt get enough of it, yet now, when
youve seen it coming out of the impure mouth
of a dog, you say youre polluted. My friend,
dont worry that the dogs dead and unclean,
because the water you and everybody else drank,
may, indeed, have come from the unclean mouth
of a dog, but it wasnt the dogs. The waters
from God; its a gift from Him.

In the same way, the man who heard your
confession, the forgiveness he gave you, it
wasnt his. That forgiveness is a gift from
God. He gives it. The All-Holy Spirit grants
it to those who purely and sincerely confess
their sins and weaknesses. The difference is
that what God gives and grants to people is
given and granted through canonically ordained
priests who have permission to hear confessions
and to remit sins. As the Lord said to the
Apostles: €œReceive the Holy Spirit. If you
remit peoples sins, they are remitted; and
if you retain them, they have been retained€�.
So the Holy Apostles gave this authority to
the bishops and their successors and they did
the same for those who are canonically ordained
and are confessors. For this reason and
because they perform Gods holy sacraments,
the priests are superior in office even to a
king and the supreme leader of a people. Priests
are superior to all others, in the sense that
they alone are able to forgive sins. There is no
other way. This is the Sacred Tradition of our
Holy Church.

The angel went on to say: €˜Go and make a prostration
and ask forgiveness of your confessor, because you
saw him sinning. Ask him to forgive you for judging
him€¦ As regards the sin he committed, God will
examine him and He alone will judge the man. You
saw him sin, but you dont know if he repented,
or what form his repentance took. So you have the
sin of being condemnatory, but, if he repents
hell reap the fruits of his repentance and his
mended ways. We arent in a position to judge
anybody else.

After the angel had said this to this faithful
Christian, he disappeared from sight. As the angel
had told him to do, the man went back to his
confessor, to whom he told what hed seen and
what the angel of the Lord had said to him. He
made a prostration to him and told him in full
what had passed between him and the angel. The
priest repented, with tears in his eyes, wept
bitterly and asked forgiveness of Our All-Merciful,
All-Loving and All-Good God. He mended his
wicked ways, for the glory of God and the salvation
of his soul.

When my spiritual father, Papa-Nikodimos, continued,
he said to me with love: €˜This is why, my dear
Haralambos (this happened back in 1934, when I wasnt
yet a monk, so he called me by my lay name), we have
no right to judge the behavior of others. As Saint
Paul says: €œWho are you to judge the servant of
another?€� (this is in the Epistle to the Romans).
How much more this is true about condemning the
clergy, priests, confessors and monastics in general,
who God tests very thoroughly and against whom
the devil wages the most subtle warfare. God Himself
tells us €œDo not judge, so that you might not be
judged€� and €œYou will be judged as you have judged,
and will be measured by the same measure as you
have used€�. We must forgive the sins of others and
repent. We should judge and condemn only ourselves.
If we want to be saved, we have to forgive other
people. The Gospel commands: €œIf you forgive
people their transgressions, God will forgive you
yours. As you forgive, you will be forgiven€�.

Judging others is a great sin, my brothers and
sisters and we should never concern ourselves
with the failings and misdemeanors of other
people. Its none of our business. What we do
is for ourselves. For our own part, anything
we see or hear, we just have to forgive, love
and try to help people as much as we can.

Yours in Christ ,
-T

On 8/7/20 6:48 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-07 15:25, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 8/7/20 10:24 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 10:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.


When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

That's why I'm non-denominational.


Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


True...

Most religions contend: We are right, everyone else is wrong, we are
better than you.


Hi Wade,

You must not have had much exposure to Christians.
Yes there are some obnoxious ones who are not
evangelizing correctly.Â* They are just learning.
They will get there eventually. Just ignore them
for now.

Here is what Christianity teaches:

Â*Â*Â* Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what
Â*Â*Â* judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with
Â*Â*Â* the measure you use, it will be measured back to
Â*Â*Â* you. And why do you look at the speck in your
Â*Â*Â* brothers eye, but do not consider the plank in
Â*Â*Â* your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother,
Â*Â*Â* €˜Let me remove the speck from your eye; and look,
Â*Â*Â* a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove
Â*Â*Â* the plank from your own eye, and then you will
Â*Â*Â* see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers
Â*Â*Â* eye.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* --Matthew 7, 1-5Â* KJV


A Story about Judging Others
https://myocn.net/a-story-about-judging-others/

Summary:
Â*Â*Â*Â* Judging others is a great sin, my brothers and
Â*Â*Â*Â* sisters and we should never concern ourselves
Â*Â*Â*Â* with the failings and misdemeanors of other people.
Â*Â*Â*Â* Its none of our business. What we do is for
Â*Â*Â*Â* ourselves. For our own part, anything we see or
Â*Â*Â*Â* hear, we just have to forgive, love and try to
Â*Â*Â*Â* help people as much as we can.

The full version, which you should read.Â* It will
introduce you to Christianity.

Â*Â*Â* The late Papa-Nikodimos, a spiritual father from the Skete
Â*Â*Â* of Kavsokalyvia told me the following story, which is
Â*Â*Â* recorded in Athonite Patristic manuscripts.

Â*Â*Â* There was a devout Christian who went to his confessor
Â*Â*Â* for fifteen years and told him his human weaknesses.
Â*Â*Â* One day he went as usual to make his confession, but
Â*Â*Â* when he opened the door he found the man fornicating
Â*Â*Â* with a woman. He left immediately and, as he did so,
Â*Â*Â* he said to himself: €˜What on earths just ?. This is
Â*Â*Â* terrible. Ive been confessing to him for years and
Â*Â*Â* now what am I going to do? Will I go to hell? All
Â*Â*Â* the sins Ive confessed to him, given hes such a
Â*Â*Â* sinner, are they forgiven or not? All they all still
Â*Â*Â* unforgiven? The man was stunned at the evil that had
Â*Â*Â* befallen him and didnt know what to do.

Â*Â*Â* After hed left, he became thirsty on the way back
Â*Â*Â* home. He carried on for a little and came across a
Â*Â*Â* small brook, in which pure water babbled. He bent
Â*Â*Â* down and drank. He slaked his thirst and didnt feel
Â*Â*Â* at all like leaving, because he wanted to drink
Â*Â*Â* some more of that lovely water. Then a thought
Â*Â*Â* crossed his mind: €˜If the streams so good down
Â*Â*Â* here, how much more so will it be near where it
Â*Â*Â* starts? With this thought he set out to follow
Â*Â*Â* the brook back to its source. But when he got
Â*Â*Â* there, what did he see? He saw the water coming
Â*Â*Â* out of the dead, dirty carcass of a dog. The
Â*Â*Â* water was coming out of the dogs mouth! Then
Â*Â*Â* he sighed deeply and said. €˜What a thing to
Â*Â*Â* happen to me, wretch that I am. Ive been
Â*Â*Â* polluted by this filthy water. It seems Im a
Â*Â*Â* great sinner and very impure if these things
Â*Â*Â* are happening to me.

Â*Â*Â* He was really troubled by this, but then an angel
Â*Â*Â* of the Lord appeared to him and said: €˜Why are
Â*Â*Â* you troubled and saddened by whats happening
Â*Â*Â* to you? When you drank the water from the brook,
Â*Â*Â* didnt you enjoy it, because it was so pure?
Â*Â*Â* You couldnt get enough of it, yet now, when
Â*Â*Â* youve seen it coming out of the impure mouth
Â*Â*Â* of a dog, you say youre polluted. My friend,
Â*Â*Â* dont worry that the dogs dead and unclean,
Â*Â*Â* because the water you and everybody else drank,
Â*Â*Â* may, indeed, have come from the unclean mouth
Â*Â*Â* of a dog, but it wasnt the dogs. The waters
Â*Â*Â* from God; its a gift from Him.

Â*Â*Â* In the same way, the man who heard your
Â*Â*Â* confession, the forgiveness he gave you, it
Â*Â*Â* wasnt his. That forgiveness is a gift from
Â*Â*Â* God. He gives it. The All-Holy Spirit grants
Â*Â*Â* it to those who purely and sincerely confess
Â*Â*Â* their sins and weaknesses. The difference is
Â*Â*Â* that what God gives and grants to people is
Â*Â*Â* given and granted through canonically ordained
Â*Â*Â* priests who have permission to hear confessions
Â*Â*Â* and to remit sins. As the Lord said to the
Â*Â*Â* Apostles: €œReceive the Holy Spirit. If you
Â*Â*Â* remit peoples sins, they are remitted; and
Â*Â*Â* if you retain them, they have been retained€�.
Â*Â*Â* So the Holy Apostles gave this authority to
Â*Â*Â* the bishops and their successors and they did
Â*Â*Â* the same for those who are canonically ordained
Â*Â*Â* and are confessors. For this reason and
Â*Â*Â* because they perform Gods holy sacraments,
Â*Â*Â* the priests are superior in office even to a
Â*Â*Â* king and the supreme leader of a people. Priests
Â*Â*Â* are superior to all others, in the sense that
Â*Â*Â* they alone are able to forgive sins. There is no
Â*Â*Â* other way. This is the Sacred Tradition of our
Â*Â*Â* Holy Church.

Â*Â*Â* The angel went on to say: €˜Go and make a prostration
Â*Â*Â* and ask forgiveness of your confessor, because you
Â*Â*Â* saw him sinning. Ask him to forgive you for judging
Â*Â*Â* him€¦ As regards the sin he committed, God will
Â*Â*Â* examine him and He alone will judge the man. You
Â*Â*Â* saw him sin, but you dont know if he repented,
Â*Â*Â* or what form his repentance took. So you have the
Â*Â*Â* sin of being condemnatory, but, if he repents
Â*Â*Â* hell reap the fruits of his repentance and his
Â*Â*Â* mended ways. We arent in a position to judge
Â*Â*Â* anybody else.

Â*Â*Â* After the angel had said this to this faithful
Â*Â*Â* Christian, he disappeared from sight. As the angel
Â*Â*Â* had told him to do, the man went back to his
Â*Â*Â* confessor, to whom he told what hed seen and
Â*Â*Â* what the angel of the Lord had said to him. He
Â*Â*Â* made a prostration to him and told him in full
Â*Â*Â* what had passed between him and the angel. The
Â*Â*Â* priest repented, with tears in his eyes, wept
Â*Â*Â* bitterly and asked forgiveness of Our All-Merciful,
Â*Â*Â* All-Loving and All-Good God. He mended his
Â*Â*Â* wicked ways, for the glory of God and the salvation
Â*Â*Â* of his soul.

Â*Â*Â* When my spiritual father, Papa-Nikodimos, continued,
Â*Â*Â* he said to me with love: €˜This is why, my dear
Â*Â*Â* Haralambos (this happened back in 1934, when I wasnt
Â*Â*Â* yet a monk, so he called me by my lay name), we have
Â*Â*Â* no right to judge the behavior of others. As Saint
Â*Â*Â* Paul says: €œWho are you to judge the servant of
Â*Â*Â* another?€� (this is in the Epistle to the Romans).
Â*Â*Â* How much more this is true about condemning the
Â*Â*Â* clergy, priests, confessors and monastics in general,
Â*Â*Â* who God tests very thoroughly and against whom
Â*Â*Â* the devil wages the most subtle warfare. God Himself
Â*Â*Â* tells us €œDo not judge, so that you might not be
Â*Â*Â* judged€� and €œYou will be judged as you have judged,
Â*Â*Â* and will be measured by the same measure as you
Â*Â*Â* have used€�. We must forgive the sins of others and
Â*Â*Â* repent. We should judge and condemn only ourselves.
Â*Â*Â* If we want to be saved, we have to forgive other
Â*Â*Â* people. The Gospel commands: €œIf you forgive
Â*Â*Â* people their transgressions, God will forgive you
Â*Â*Â* yours. As you forgive, you will be forgiven€�.

Â*Â*Â* Judging others is a great sin, my brothers and
Â*Â*Â* sisters and we should never concern ourselves
Â*Â*Â* with the failings and misdemeanors of other
Â*Â*Â* people. Its none of our business. What we do
Â*Â*Â* is for ourselves. For our own part, anything
Â*Â*Â* we see or hear, we just have to forgive, love
Â*Â*Â* and try to help people as much as we can.

Yours in Christ ,
-T
Thanks for affirming my comments. I rest my case;-)

On 2020-08-07 15:55, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 8/7/20 6:48 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-07 15:25, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 8/7/20 10:24 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 10:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.


When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

That's why I'm non-denominational.


Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


True...

Most religions contend: We are right, everyone else is wrong, we are
better than you.


Hi Wade,

You must not have had much exposure to Christians.
Yes there are some obnoxious ones who are not
evangelizing correctly.Â* They are just learning.
They will get there eventually. Just ignore them
for now.

Here is what Christianity teaches:

Â*Â*Â*Â* Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what
Â*Â*Â*Â* judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with
Â*Â*Â*Â* the measure you use, it will be measured back to
Â*Â*Â*Â* you. And why do you look at the speck in your
Â*Â*Â*Â* brothers eye, but do not consider the plank in
Â*Â*Â*Â* your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother,
Â*Â*Â*Â* €˜Let me remove the speck from your eye; and look,
Â*Â*Â*Â* a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove
Â*Â*Â*Â* the plank from your own eye, and then you will
Â*Â*Â*Â* see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers
Â*Â*Â*Â* eye.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* --Matthew 7, 1-5Â* KJV


A Story about Judging Others
https://myocn.net/a-story-about-judging-others/

Summary:
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Judging others is a great sin, my brothers and
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* sisters and we should never concern ourselves
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* with the failings and misdemeanors of other people.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Its none of our business. What we do is for
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ourselves. For our own part, anything we see or
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* hear, we just have to forgive, love and try to
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* help people as much as we can.

The full version, which you should read.Â* It will
introduce you to Christianity.

Â*Â*Â*Â* The late Papa-Nikodimos, a spiritual father from the Skete
Â*Â*Â*Â* of Kavsokalyvia told me the following story, which is
Â*Â*Â*Â* recorded in Athonite Patristic manuscripts.

Â*Â*Â*Â* There was a devout Christian who went to his confessor
Â*Â*Â*Â* for fifteen years and told him his human weaknesses.
Â*Â*Â*Â* One day he went as usual to make his confession, but
Â*Â*Â*Â* when he opened the door he found the man fornicating
Â*Â*Â*Â* with a woman. He left immediately and, as he did so,
Â*Â*Â*Â* he said to himself: €˜What on earths just ?. This is
Â*Â*Â*Â* terrible. Ive been confessing to him for years and
Â*Â*Â*Â* now what am I going to do? Will I go to hell? All
Â*Â*Â*Â* the sins Ive confessed to him, given hes such a
Â*Â*Â*Â* sinner, are they forgiven or not? All they all still
Â*Â*Â*Â* unforgiven? The man was stunned at the evil that had
Â*Â*Â*Â* befallen him and didnt know what to do.

Â*Â*Â*Â* After hed left, he became thirsty on the way back
Â*Â*Â*Â* home. He carried on for a little and came across a
Â*Â*Â*Â* small brook, in which pure water babbled. He bent
Â*Â*Â*Â* down and drank. He slaked his thirst and didnt feel
Â*Â*Â*Â* at all like leaving, because he wanted to drink
Â*Â*Â*Â* some more of that lovely water. Then a thought
Â*Â*Â*Â* crossed his mind: €˜If the streams so good down
Â*Â*Â*Â* here, how much more so will it be near where it
Â*Â*Â*Â* starts? With this thought he set out to follow
Â*Â*Â*Â* the brook back to its source. But when he got
Â*Â*Â*Â* there, what did he see? He saw the water coming
Â*Â*Â*Â* out of the dead, dirty carcass of a dog. The
Â*Â*Â*Â* water was coming out of the dogs mouth! Then
Â*Â*Â*Â* he sighed deeply and said. €˜What a thing to
Â*Â*Â*Â* happen to me, wretch that I am. Ive been
Â*Â*Â*Â* polluted by this filthy water. It seems Im a
Â*Â*Â*Â* great sinner and very impure if these things
Â*Â*Â*Â* are happening to me.

Â*Â*Â*Â* He was really troubled by this, but then an angel
Â*Â*Â*Â* of the Lord appeared to him and said: €˜Why are
Â*Â*Â*Â* you troubled and saddened by whats happening
Â*Â*Â*Â* to you? When you drank the water from the brook,
Â*Â*Â*Â* didnt you enjoy it, because it was so pure?
Â*Â*Â*Â* You couldnt get enough of it, yet now, when
Â*Â*Â*Â* youve seen it coming out of the impure mouth
Â*Â*Â*Â* of a dog, you say youre polluted. My friend,
Â*Â*Â*Â* dont worry that the dogs dead and unclean,
Â*Â*Â*Â* because the water you and everybody else drank,
Â*Â*Â*Â* may, indeed, have come from the unclean mouth
Â*Â*Â*Â* of a dog, but it wasnt the dogs. The waters
Â*Â*Â*Â* from God; its a gift from Him.

Â*Â*Â*Â* In the same way, the man who heard your
Â*Â*Â*Â* confession, the forgiveness he gave you, it
Â*Â*Â*Â* wasnt his. That forgiveness is a gift from
Â*Â*Â*Â* God. He gives it. The All-Holy Spirit grants
Â*Â*Â*Â* it to those who purely and sincerely confess
Â*Â*Â*Â* their sins and weaknesses. The difference is
Â*Â*Â*Â* that what God gives and grants to people is
Â*Â*Â*Â* given and granted through canonically ordained
Â*Â*Â*Â* priests who have permission to hear confessions
Â*Â*Â*Â* and to remit sins. As the Lord said to the
Â*Â*Â*Â* Apostles: €œReceive the Holy Spirit. If you
Â*Â*Â*Â* remit peoples sins, they are remitted; and
Â*Â*Â*Â* if you retain them, they have been retained€�.
Â*Â*Â*Â* So the Holy Apostles gave this authority to
Â*Â*Â*Â* the bishops and their successors and they did
Â*Â*Â*Â* the same for those who are canonically ordained
Â*Â*Â*Â* and are confessors. For this reason and
Â*Â*Â*Â* because they perform Gods holy sacraments,
Â*Â*Â*Â* the priests are superior in office even to a
Â*Â*Â*Â* king and the supreme leader of a people. Priests
Â*Â*Â*Â* are superior to all others, in the sense that
Â*Â*Â*Â* they alone are able to forgive sins. There is no
Â*Â*Â*Â* other way. This is the Sacred Tradition of our
Â*Â*Â*Â* Holy Church.

Â*Â*Â*Â* The angel went on to say: €˜Go and make a prostration
Â*Â*Â*Â* and ask forgiveness of your confessor, because you
Â*Â*Â*Â* saw him sinning. Ask him to forgive you for judging
Â*Â*Â*Â* him€¦ As regards the sin he committed, God will
Â*Â*Â*Â* examine him and He alone will judge the man. You
Â*Â*Â*Â* saw him sin, but you dont know if he repented,
Â*Â*Â*Â* or what form his repentance took. So you have the
Â*Â*Â*Â* sin of being condemnatory, but, if he repents
Â*Â*Â*Â* hell reap the fruits of his repentance and his
Â*Â*Â*Â* mended ways. We arent in a position to judge
Â*Â*Â*Â* anybody else.

Â*Â*Â*Â* After the angel had said this to this faithful
Â*Â*Â*Â* Christian, he disappeared from sight. As the angel
Â*Â*Â*Â* had told him to do, the man went back to his
Â*Â*Â*Â* confessor, to whom he told what hed seen and
Â*Â*Â*Â* what the angel of the Lord had said to him. He
Â*Â*Â*Â* made a prostration to him and told him in full
Â*Â*Â*Â* what had passed between him and the angel. The
Â*Â*Â*Â* priest repented, with tears in his eyes, wept
Â*Â*Â*Â* bitterly and asked forgiveness of Our All-Merciful,
Â*Â*Â*Â* All-Loving and All-Good God. He mended his
Â*Â*Â*Â* wicked ways, for the glory of God and the salvation
Â*Â*Â*Â* of his soul.

Â*Â*Â*Â* When my spiritual father, Papa-Nikodimos, continued,
Â*Â*Â*Â* he said to me with love: €˜This is why, my dear
Â*Â*Â*Â* Haralambos (this happened back in 1934, when I wasnt
Â*Â*Â*Â* yet a monk, so he called me by my lay name), we have
Â*Â*Â*Â* no right to judge the behavior of others. As Saint
Â*Â*Â*Â* Paul says: €œWho are you to judge the servant of
Â*Â*Â*Â* another?€� (this is in the Epistle to the Romans).
Â*Â*Â*Â* How much more this is true about condemning the
Â*Â*Â*Â* clergy, priests, confessors and monastics in general,
Â*Â*Â*Â* who God tests very thoroughly and against whom
Â*Â*Â*Â* the devil wages the most subtle warfare. God Himself
Â*Â*Â*Â* tells us €œDo not judge, so that you might not be
Â*Â*Â*Â* judged€� and €œYou will be judged as you have judged,
Â*Â*Â*Â* and will be measured by the same measure as you
Â*Â*Â*Â* have used€�. We must forgive the sins of others and
Â*Â*Â*Â* repent. We should judge and condemn only ourselves.
Â*Â*Â*Â* If we want to be saved, we have to forgive other
Â*Â*Â*Â* people. The Gospel commands: €œIf you forgive
Â*Â*Â*Â* people their transgressions, God will forgive you
Â*Â*Â*Â* yours. As you forgive, you will be forgiven€�.

Â*Â*Â*Â* Judging others is a great sin, my brothers and
Â*Â*Â*Â* sisters and we should never concern ourselves
Â*Â*Â*Â* with the failings and misdemeanors of other
Â*Â*Â*Â* people. Its none of our business. What we do
Â*Â*Â*Â* is for ourselves. For our own part, anything
Â*Â*Â*Â* we see or hear, we just have to forgive, love
Â*Â*Â*Â* and try to help people as much as we can.

Yours in Christ ,
-T

Thanks for affirming my comments. I rest my case;-)

You did not read it did you.

On 07/08/2020 23:25, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 8/7/20 10:24 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 10:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.


When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

That's why I'm non-denominational.


Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


True...

Most religions contend: We are right, everyone else is wrong, we are
better than you.

Yup, the different denominations all think that their version is the
right one and the others are not the real christians.
This is known as the *no true Scotsman* fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_tru...unte rexample.

On 07/08/2020 23:48, T wrote:
On 2020-08-07 15:25, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 8/7/20 10:24 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 10:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.


When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

That's why I'm non-denominational.


Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


True...

Most religions contend: We are right, everyone else is wrong, we are
better than you.


Hi Wade,

You must not have had much exposure to Christians.
Yes there are some obnoxious ones who are not
evangelizing correctly.Â* They are just learning.
They will get there eventually. Just ignore them
for now.

Here is what Christianity teaches:

Â*Â*Â* Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what
Â*Â*Â* judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with
Â*Â*Â* the measure you use, it will be measured back to
Â*Â*Â* you. And why do you look at the speck in your
Â*Â*Â* brothers eye, but do not consider the plank in
Â*Â*Â* your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother,
Â*Â*Â* €˜Let me remove the speck from your eye; and look,
Â*Â*Â* a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove
Â*Â*Â* the plank from your own eye, and then you will
Â*Â*Â* see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers
Â*Â*Â* eye.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* --Matthew 7, 1-5Â* KJV


A Story about Judging Others
https://myocn.net/a-story-about-judging-others/

Summary:
Â*Â*Â*Â* Judging others is a great sin, my brothers and
Â*Â*Â*Â* sisters and we should never concern ourselves
Â*Â*Â*Â* with the failings and misdemeanors of other people.
Â*Â*Â*Â* Its none of our business. What we do is for
Â*Â*Â*Â* ourselves. For our own part, anything we see or
Â*Â*Â*Â* hear, we just have to forgive, love and try to
Â*Â*Â*Â* help people as much as we can.

The full version, which you should read.Â* It will
introduce you to Christianity.

Â*Â*Â* The late Papa-Nikodimos, a spiritual father from the Skete
Â*Â*Â* of Kavsokalyvia told me the following story, which is
Â*Â*Â* recorded in Athonite Patristic manuscripts.

Â*Â*Â* There was a devout Christian who went to his confessor
Â*Â*Â* for fifteen years and told him his human weaknesses.
Â*Â*Â* One day he went as usual to make his confession, but
Â*Â*Â* when he opened the door he found the man fornicating
Â*Â*Â* with a woman. He left immediately and, as he did so,
Â*Â*Â* he said to himself: €˜What on earths just ?. This is
Â*Â*Â* terrible. Ive been confessing to him for years and
Â*Â*Â* now what am I going to do? Will I go to hell? All
Â*Â*Â* the sins Ive confessed to him, given hes such a
Â*Â*Â* sinner, are they forgiven or not? All they all still
Â*Â*Â* unforgiven? The man was stunned at the evil that had
Â*Â*Â* befallen him and didnt know what to do.

Â*Â*Â* After hed left, he became thirsty on the way back
Â*Â*Â* home. He carried on for a little and came across a
Â*Â*Â* small brook, in which pure water babbled. He bent
Â*Â*Â* down and drank. He slaked his thirst and didnt feel
Â*Â*Â* at all like leaving, because he wanted to drink
Â*Â*Â* some more of that lovely water. Then a thought
Â*Â*Â* crossed his mind: €˜If the streams so good down
Â*Â*Â* here, how much more so will it be near where it
Â*Â*Â* starts? With this thought he set out to follow
Â*Â*Â* the brook back to its source. But when he got
Â*Â*Â* there, what did he see? He saw the water coming
Â*Â*Â* out of the dead, dirty carcass of a dog. The
Â*Â*Â* water was coming out of the dogs mouth! Then
Â*Â*Â* he sighed deeply and said. €˜What a thing to
Â*Â*Â* happen to me, wretch that I am. Ive been
Â*Â*Â* polluted by this filthy water. It seems Im a
Â*Â*Â* great sinner and very impure if these things
Â*Â*Â* are happening to me.

Â*Â*Â* He was really troubled by this, but then an angel
Â*Â*Â* of the Lord appeared to him and said: €˜Why are
Â*Â*Â* you troubled and saddened by whats happening
Â*Â*Â* to you? When you drank the water from the brook,
Â*Â*Â* didnt you enjoy it, because it was so pure?
Â*Â*Â* You couldnt get enough of it, yet now, when
Â*Â*Â* youve seen it coming out of the impure mouth
Â*Â*Â* of a dog, you say youre polluted. My friend,
Â*Â*Â* dont worry that the dogs dead and unclean,
Â*Â*Â* because the water you and everybody else drank,
Â*Â*Â* may, indeed, have come from the unclean mouth
Â*Â*Â* of a dog, but it wasnt the dogs. The waters
Â*Â*Â* from God; its a gift from Him.

Â*Â*Â* In the same way, the man who heard your
Â*Â*Â* confession, the forgiveness he gave you, it
Â*Â*Â* wasnt his. That forgiveness is a gift from
Â*Â*Â* God. He gives it. The All-Holy Spirit grants
Â*Â*Â* it to those who purely and sincerely confess
Â*Â*Â* their sins and weaknesses. The difference is
Â*Â*Â* that what God gives and grants to people is
Â*Â*Â* given and granted through canonically ordained
Â*Â*Â* priests who have permission to hear confessions
Â*Â*Â* and to remit sins. As the Lord said to the
Â*Â*Â* Apostles: €œReceive the Holy Spirit. If you
Â*Â*Â* remit peoples sins, they are remitted; and
Â*Â*Â* if you retain them, they have been retained€�.
Â*Â*Â* So the Holy Apostles gave this authority to
Â*Â*Â* the bishops and their successors and they did
Â*Â*Â* the same for those who are canonically ordained
Â*Â*Â* and are confessors. For this reason and
Â*Â*Â* because they perform Gods holy sacraments,
Â*Â*Â* the priests are superior in office even to a
Â*Â*Â* king and the supreme leader of a people. Priests
Â*Â*Â* are superior to all others, in the sense that
Â*Â*Â* they alone are able to forgive sins. There is no
Â*Â*Â* other way. This is the Sacred Tradition of our
Â*Â*Â* Holy Church.

Â*Â*Â* The angel went on to say: €˜Go and make a prostration
Â*Â*Â* and ask forgiveness of your confessor, because you
Â*Â*Â* saw him sinning. Ask him to forgive you for judging
Â*Â*Â* him€¦ As regards the sin he committed, God will
Â*Â*Â* examine him and He alone will judge the man. You
Â*Â*Â* saw him sin, but you dont know if he repented,
Â*Â*Â* or what form his repentance took. So you have the
Â*Â*Â* sin of being condemnatory, but, if he repents
Â*Â*Â* hell reap the fruits of his repentance and his
Â*Â*Â* mended ways. We arent in a position to judge
Â*Â*Â* anybody else.

Â*Â*Â* After the angel had said this to this faithful
Â*Â*Â* Christian, he disappeared from sight. As the angel
Â*Â*Â* had told him to do, the man went back to his
Â*Â*Â* confessor, to whom he told what hed seen and
Â*Â*Â* what the angel of the Lord had said to him. He
Â*Â*Â* made a prostration to him and told him in full
Â*Â*Â* what had passed between him and the angel. The
Â*Â*Â* priest repented, with tears in his eyes, wept
Â*Â*Â* bitterly and asked forgiveness of Our All-Merciful,
Â*Â*Â* All-Loving and All-Good God. He mended his
Â*Â*Â* wicked ways, for the glory of God and the salvation
Â*Â*Â* of his soul.

Â*Â*Â* When my spiritual father, Papa-Nikodimos, continued,
Â*Â*Â* he said to me with love: €˜This is why, my dear
Â*Â*Â* Haralambos (this happened back in 1934, when I wasnt
Â*Â*Â* yet a monk, so he called me by my lay name), we have
Â*Â*Â* no right to judge the behavior of others. As Saint
Â*Â*Â* Paul says: €œWho are you to judge the servant of
Â*Â*Â* another?€� (this is in the Epistle to the Romans).
Â*Â*Â* How much more this is true about condemning the
Â*Â*Â* clergy, priests, confessors and monastics in general,
Â*Â*Â* who God tests very thoroughly and against whom
Â*Â*Â* the devil wages the most subtle warfare. God Himself
Â*Â*Â* tells us €œDo not judge, so that you might not be
Â*Â*Â* judged€� and €œYou will be judged as you have judged,
Â*Â*Â* and will be measured by the same measure as you
Â*Â*Â* have used€�. We must forgive the sins of others and
Â*Â*Â* repent. We should judge and condemn only ourselves.
Â*Â*Â* If we want to be saved, we have to forgive other
Â*Â*Â* people. The Gospel commands: €œIf you forgive
Â*Â*Â* people their transgressions, God will forgive you
Â*Â*Â* yours. As you forgive, you will be forgiven€�.

Â*Â*Â* Judging others is a great sin, my brothers and
Â*Â*Â* sisters and we should never concern ourselves
Â*Â*Â* with the failings and misdemeanors of other
Â*Â*Â* people. Its none of our business. What we do
Â*Â*Â* is for ourselves. For our own part, anything
Â*Â*Â* we see or hear, we just have to forgive, love
Â*Â*Â* and try to help people as much as we can.

Yours in Christ ,
-T

The Bible says it's ok to beat your slaves as long as they don't die
immediately: Exodus 21:20-21

On 08/08/2020 04:03, Bod wrote:
On 07/08/2020 23:48, T wrote:
On 2020-08-07 15:25, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 8/7/20 10:24 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 10:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.


When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

That's why I'm non-denominational.


Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


True...

Most religions contend: We are right, everyone else is wrong, we are
better than you.


Hi Wade,

You must not have had much exposure to Christians.
Yes there are some obnoxious ones who are not
evangelizing correctly.Â* They are just learning.
They will get there eventually. Just ignore them
for now.

Here is what Christianity teaches:

Â*Â*Â*Â* Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what
Â*Â*Â*Â* judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with
Â*Â*Â*Â* the measure you use, it will be measured back to
Â*Â*Â*Â* you. And why do you look at the speck in your
Â*Â*Â*Â* brothers eye, but do not consider the plank in
Â*Â*Â*Â* your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother,
Â*Â*Â*Â* €˜Let me remove the speck from your eye; and look,
Â*Â*Â*Â* a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove
Â*Â*Â*Â* the plank from your own eye, and then you will
Â*Â*Â*Â* see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers
Â*Â*Â*Â* eye.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* --Matthew 7, 1-5Â* KJV


A Story about Judging Others
https://myocn.net/a-story-about-judging-others/

Summary:
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Judging others is a great sin, my brothers and
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* sisters and we should never concern ourselves
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* with the failings and misdemeanors of other people.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Its none of our business. What we do is for
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ourselves. For our own part, anything we see or
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* hear, we just have to forgive, love and try to
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* help people as much as we can.

The full version, which you should read.Â* It will
introduce you to Christianity.

Â*Â*Â*Â* The late Papa-Nikodimos, a spiritual father from the Skete
Â*Â*Â*Â* of Kavsokalyvia told me the following story, which is
Â*Â*Â*Â* recorded in Athonite Patristic manuscripts.

Â*Â*Â*Â* There was a devout Christian who went to his confessor
Â*Â*Â*Â* for fifteen years and told him his human weaknesses.
Â*Â*Â*Â* One day he went as usual to make his confession, but
Â*Â*Â*Â* when he opened the door he found the man fornicating
Â*Â*Â*Â* with a woman. He left immediately and, as he did so,
Â*Â*Â*Â* he said to himself: €˜What on earths just ?. This is
Â*Â*Â*Â* terrible. Ive been confessing to him for years and
Â*Â*Â*Â* now what am I going to do? Will I go to hell? All
Â*Â*Â*Â* the sins Ive confessed to him, given hes such a
Â*Â*Â*Â* sinner, are they forgiven or not? All they all still
Â*Â*Â*Â* unforgiven? The man was stunned at the evil that had
Â*Â*Â*Â* befallen him and didnt know what to do.

Â*Â*Â*Â* After hed left, he became thirsty on the way back
Â*Â*Â*Â* home. He carried on for a little and came across a
Â*Â*Â*Â* small brook, in which pure water babbled. He bent
Â*Â*Â*Â* down and drank. He slaked his thirst and didnt feel
Â*Â*Â*Â* at all like leaving, because he wanted to drink
Â*Â*Â*Â* some more of that lovely water. Then a thought
Â*Â*Â*Â* crossed his mind: €˜If the streams so good down
Â*Â*Â*Â* here, how much more so will it be near where it
Â*Â*Â*Â* starts? With this thought he set out to follow
Â*Â*Â*Â* the brook back to its source. But when he got
Â*Â*Â*Â* there, what did he see? He saw the water coming
Â*Â*Â*Â* out of the dead, dirty carcass of a dog. The
Â*Â*Â*Â* water was coming out of the dogs mouth! Then
Â*Â*Â*Â* he sighed deeply and said. €˜What a thing to
Â*Â*Â*Â* happen to me, wretch that I am. Ive been
Â*Â*Â*Â* polluted by this filthy water. It seems Im a
Â*Â*Â*Â* great sinner and very impure if these things
Â*Â*Â*Â* are happening to me.

Â*Â*Â*Â* He was really troubled by this, but then an angel
Â*Â*Â*Â* of the Lord appeared to him and said: €˜Why are
Â*Â*Â*Â* you troubled and saddened by whats happening
Â*Â*Â*Â* to you? When you drank the water from the brook,
Â*Â*Â*Â* didnt you enjoy it, because it was so pure?
Â*Â*Â*Â* You couldnt get enough of it, yet now, when
Â*Â*Â*Â* youve seen it coming out of the impure mouth
Â*Â*Â*Â* of a dog, you say youre polluted. My friend,
Â*Â*Â*Â* dont worry that the dogs dead and unclean,
Â*Â*Â*Â* because the water you and everybody else drank,
Â*Â*Â*Â* may, indeed, have come from the unclean mouth
Â*Â*Â*Â* of a dog, but it wasnt the dogs. The waters
Â*Â*Â*Â* from God; its a gift from Him.

Â*Â*Â*Â* In the same way, the man who heard your
Â*Â*Â*Â* confession, the forgiveness he gave you, it
Â*Â*Â*Â* wasnt his. That forgiveness is a gift from
Â*Â*Â*Â* God. He gives it. The All-Holy Spirit grants
Â*Â*Â*Â* it to those who purely and sincerely confess
Â*Â*Â*Â* their sins and weaknesses. The difference is
Â*Â*Â*Â* that what God gives and grants to people is
Â*Â*Â*Â* given and granted through canonically ordained
Â*Â*Â*Â* priests who have permission to hear confessions
Â*Â*Â*Â* and to remit sins. As the Lord said to the
Â*Â*Â*Â* Apostles: €œReceive the Holy Spirit. If you
Â*Â*Â*Â* remit peoples sins, they are remitted; and
Â*Â*Â*Â* if you retain them, they have been retained€�.
Â*Â*Â*Â* So the Holy Apostles gave this authority to
Â*Â*Â*Â* the bishops and their successors and they did
Â*Â*Â*Â* the same for those who are canonically ordained
Â*Â*Â*Â* and are confessors. For this reason and
Â*Â*Â*Â* because they perform Gods holy sacraments,
Â*Â*Â*Â* the priests are superior in office even to a
Â*Â*Â*Â* king and the supreme leader of a people. Priests
Â*Â*Â*Â* are superior to all others, in the sense that
Â*Â*Â*Â* they alone are able to forgive sins. There is no
Â*Â*Â*Â* other way. This is the Sacred Tradition of our
Â*Â*Â*Â* Holy Church.

Â*Â*Â*Â* The angel went on to say: €˜Go and make a prostration
Â*Â*Â*Â* and ask forgiveness of your confessor, because you
Â*Â*Â*Â* saw him sinning. Ask him to forgive you for judging
Â*Â*Â*Â* him€¦ As regards the sin he committed, God will
Â*Â*Â*Â* examine him and He alone will judge the man. You
Â*Â*Â*Â* saw him sin, but you dont know if he repented,
Â*Â*Â*Â* or what form his repentance took. So you have the
Â*Â*Â*Â* sin of being condemnatory, but, if he repents
Â*Â*Â*Â* hell reap the fruits of his repentance and his
Â*Â*Â*Â* mended ways. We arent in a position to judge
Â*Â*Â*Â* anybody else.

Â*Â*Â*Â* After the angel had said this to this faithful
Â*Â*Â*Â* Christian, he disappeared from sight. As the angel
Â*Â*Â*Â* had told him to do, the man went back to his
Â*Â*Â*Â* confessor, to whom he told what hed seen and
Â*Â*Â*Â* what the angel of the Lord had said to him. He
Â*Â*Â*Â* made a prostration to him and told him in full
Â*Â*Â*Â* what had passed between him and the angel. The
Â*Â*Â*Â* priest repented, with tears in his eyes, wept
Â*Â*Â*Â* bitterly and asked forgiveness of Our All-Merciful,
Â*Â*Â*Â* All-Loving and All-Good God. He mended his
Â*Â*Â*Â* wicked ways, for the glory of God and the salvation
Â*Â*Â*Â* of his soul.

Â*Â*Â*Â* When my spiritual father, Papa-Nikodimos, continued,
Â*Â*Â*Â* he said to me with love: €˜This is why, my dear
Â*Â*Â*Â* Haralambos (this happened back in 1934, when I wasnt
Â*Â*Â*Â* yet a monk, so he called me by my lay name), we have
Â*Â*Â*Â* no right to judge the behavior of others. As Saint
Â*Â*Â*Â* Paul says: €œWho are you to judge the servant of
Â*Â*Â*Â* another?€� (this is in the Epistle to the Romans).
Â*Â*Â*Â* How much more this is true about condemning the
Â*Â*Â*Â* clergy, priests, confessors and monastics in general,
Â*Â*Â*Â* who God tests very thoroughly and against whom
Â*Â*Â*Â* the devil wages the most subtle warfare. God Himself
Â*Â*Â*Â* tells us €œDo not judge, so that you might not be
Â*Â*Â*Â* judged€� and €œYou will be judged as you have judged,
Â*Â*Â*Â* and will be measured by the same measure as you
Â*Â*Â*Â* have used€�. We must forgive the sins of others and
Â*Â*Â*Â* repent. We should judge and condemn only ourselves.
Â*Â*Â*Â* If we want to be saved, we have to forgive other
Â*Â*Â*Â* people. The Gospel commands: €œIf you forgive
Â*Â*Â*Â* people their transgressions, God will forgive you
Â*Â*Â*Â* yours. As you forgive, you will be forgiven€�.

Â*Â*Â*Â* Judging others is a great sin, my brothers and
Â*Â*Â*Â* sisters and we should never concern ourselves
Â*Â*Â*Â* with the failings and misdemeanors of other
Â*Â*Â*Â* people. Its none of our business. What we do
Â*Â*Â*Â* is for ourselves. For our own part, anything
Â*Â*Â*Â* we see or hear, we just have to forgive, love
Â*Â*Â*Â* and try to help people as much as we can.

Yours in Christ ,
-T

The Bible says it's ok to beat your slaves as long as they don't die
immediately: Exodus 21:20-21



Why Bibles Given to Slaves Omitted Most of the Old Testament
....www.history.com ۼ slave-bible-redacted-old-testament
11 Dec 2018 - When slavery was legal, its proponents often justified it
with the Bible; specifically, a verse that tells servants to obey their
masters.

On 8/7/2020 10:50 AM, Bod wrote:
On 07/08/2020 16:32, Muggles wrote:
On 8/7/2020 9:36 AM, Bod wrote:
On 07/08/2020 15:24, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 10:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.


When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

That's why I'm non-denominational.


Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


True...

I'm a conservative and don't hate anyone or anything.


You behave as if you hate a number of people just because they're
opposition politically to you.

I point out stupidity/liars etc.


Such things are JUST your irrelevant opinion.

--
Maggie

On 8/7/2020 5:25 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 8/7/20 10:24 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 10:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.


When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

That's why I'm non-denominational.


Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


True...

Most religions contend: We are right, everyone else is wrong, we are
better than you.


Well, usually it's specific people within each denomination who say such
things - not everyone.

--
Maggie

On 8/7/2020 8:23 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 8/7/2020 10:50 AM, Bod wrote:
On 07/08/2020 16:32, Muggles wrote:
On 8/7/2020 9:36 AM, Bod wrote:
On 07/08/2020 15:24, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 10:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.


When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

That's why I'm non-denominational.


Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


True...

I'm a conservative and don't hate anyone or anything.


You behave as if you hate a number of people just because they're
opposition politically to you.

I point out stupidity/liars etc.


Such things are JUST your irrelevant opinion.


LOL! Looking in the mirror again.

On 08/08/2020 04:24, Muggles wrote:
On 8/7/2020 5:25 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 8/7/20 10:24 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 10:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.


When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

That's why I'm non-denominational.


Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


True...

Most religions contend: We are right, everyone else is wrong, we are
better than you.


Well, usually it's specific people within each denomination who say such
things - not everyone.

So which denomination has it right?

On 2020-08-07 20:24, Muggles wrote:
Well, usually it's specific people within each denomination who say such
things - not everyone.

Maybe 1 in 500? I have only seen it once in
25 years of living where I do. And I work
for several churches.

99.9% of the intolerance and hate I see come from
the left.

On 8/7/2020 11:40 PM, Bod wrote:
On 08/08/2020 04:24, Muggles wrote:
On 8/7/2020 5:25 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 8/7/20 10:24 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 10:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.


When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

That's why I'm non-denominational.


Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


True...

Most religions contend: We are right, everyone else is wrong, we are
better than you.


Well, usually it's specific people within each denomination who say such
things - not everyone.

So which denomination has it right?

The one I belong to of course.

On 8/7/2020 11:35 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-07 20:24, Muggles wrote:
Well, usually it's specific people within each denomination who say such
things - not everyone.

Maybe 1 in 500?Â* I have only seen it once in
25 years of living where I do.Â* And I work
for several churches.

99.9% of the intolerance and hate I see come from
the left.

I've seen it too many times ...

--
Maggie

On 08/08/2020 08:32 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/7/2020 11:40 PM, Bod wrote:
On 08/08/2020 04:24, Muggles wrote:
On 8/7/2020 5:25 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 8/7/20 10:24 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 8/6/2020 10:51 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-08-06 07:41, Muggles wrote:
Religion has nothing to do with a relationship and belief in a
living God.


There are religions besides Christianity.

They were also created by people who want to control other people.


When a Jewish temple was shot up by a hater in California,
the Christian Orthodox church across the street took them
all in whilst the authorities did their thing.

Had the tables been turned, the Jews would have done the
same thing.

Society benefits when religions complete with each
other in the arena of good works, especially
when they cooperate with each other.

That's why I'm non-denominational.


Most the friction comes from haters of religion.
Sure there are obnoxious members that evangelize
incorrectly, but they do not hold a candle to the
Hate coming from the Left.


True...

Most religions contend: We are right, everyone else is wrong, we are
better than you.


Well, usually it's specific people within each denomination who say such
things - not everyone.

So which denomination has it right?

The one I belong to of course.

In 1864 Pope Pius IX pointed out 80 erroneous statements that were being
put forth by the liberals and modernists. Among them:


15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which,
guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. €” Allocution
€œMaxima quidem,€� June 9, 1862; Damnatio €œMultiplices inter,€� June 10, 1851.

16. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of
eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. €” Encyclical €œQui
pluribus,€� Nov. 9, 1846.

17. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of
all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. €” Encyclical
€œQuanto conficiamur,€� Aug. 10, 1863, etc.

18. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true
Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as
in the Catholic Church. €” Encyclical €œNoscitis,€� Dec. 8, 1849.

https://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm

There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. Given that the
Chair of Saint Peter has been vacant since 1962, there probably isn't
any salvation in it either.

On Sat, 8 Aug 2020 11:45:27 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

In 1864 Pope Pius IX pointed out 80 erroneous statements that were being
put forth by the liberals and modernists. Among them:

I just want to point out that this is TOTALLY off topic sick bull**** again,
you senile assholes!

On 2020-08-08 10:45, rbowman wrote:
In 1864 Pope Pius IX pointed out 80 erroneous statements that were being
putÂ*forthÂ*byÂ*theÂ*liberalsÂ*andÂ*modernists.Â*A mongÂ*them:


Â*15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which,
guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. €” Allocution
€œMaximaÂ*quidem,€�Â*JuneÂ*9,Â*1862;Â*DamnatioÂ* €œMultiplicesÂ*inter,€�Â*JuneÂ*10,Â*1851.

16. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of
eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. €” Encyclical €œQui
pluribus,€�Â*Nov.Â*9,Â*1846.

17. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of
all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. €” Encyclical
€œQuantoÂ*conficiamur,€�Â*Aug.Â*10,Â*1863,Â*etc.

18. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true
Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as
inÂ*theÂ*CatholicÂ*Church.Â*€”Â*EncyclicalÂ*€œNo scitis,€�Â*Dec.Â*8,Â*1849.

https://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm

There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. Given that the
Chair of Saint Peter has been vacant since 1962, there probably isn't
anyÂ*salvationÂ*inÂ*itÂ*either.



The though process of Roman church baffles me at times.

In aggregate though, they are a force for good.

They seriously need to dump the homosexual
priesthood and turn all predictors over to the
secular authorities.

On 2020-08-07 07:24, Muggles wrote:
That's why I'm non-denominational.

And I am "pre" denominational

On 2020-08-08 10:45, rbowman wrote:
In 1864 Pope Pius IX pointed out 80 erroneous statements that were being
putÂ*forthÂ*byÂ*theÂ*liberalsÂ*andÂ*modernists.Â*A mongÂ*them:


Â*15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which,
guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. €” Allocution
€œMaximaÂ*quidem,€�Â*JuneÂ*9,Â*1862;Â*DamnatioÂ* €œMultiplicesÂ*inter,€�Â*JuneÂ*10,Â*1851.

16. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of
eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. €” Encyclical €œQui
pluribus,€�Â*Nov.Â*9,Â*1846.

17. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of
all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. €” Encyclical
€œQuantoÂ*conficiamur,€�Â*Aug.Â*10,Â*1863,Â*etc.

18. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true
Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as
inÂ*theÂ*CatholicÂ*Church.Â*€”Â*EncyclicalÂ*€œNo scitis,€�Â*Dec.Â*8,Â*1849.

https://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm

There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. Given that the
Chair of Saint Peter has been vacant since 1962, there probably isn't
anyÂ*salvationÂ*inÂ*itÂ*either.



The Roman church can get legalistic at times.

Contrast the above with the "pre" denominational
ancient church:

A common explanation is that we know where the Church
is, but not where it is not.€�As to those people who
are good and kind but are not believers, we cannot
and must not judge them. The ways of the Lord are
inscrutable; let us leave these good people entirely
to His judgment and to the grace of His Providence.
He alone knows how and why He has built the argosy
of humanity, and the small boat of each one of us,
such as it is.€�
-St. Macarius of Optina

On 09/08/2020 08:25, T wrote:
On 2020-08-08 10:45, rbowman wrote:
In 1864 Pope Pius IX pointed out 80 erroneous statements that were
being putÂ*forthÂ*byÂ*theÂ*liberalsÂ*andÂ*modernists.Â*A mongÂ*them:


Â*Â*15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which,
guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. €” Allocution
€œMaximaÂ*quidem,€�Â*JuneÂ*9,Â*1862;Â*DamnatioÂ* €œMultiplicesÂ*inter,€�Â*JuneÂ*10,Â*1851.


16. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way
of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. €” Encyclical
€œQui pluribus,€�Â*Nov.Â*9,Â*1846.

17. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation
of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. €”
Encyclical €œQuantoÂ*conficiamur,€�Â*Aug.Â*10,Â*1863,Â*etc.

18. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true
Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as
inÂ*theÂ*CatholicÂ*Church.Â*€”Â*EncyclicalÂ*€œNo scitis,€�Â*Dec.Â*8,Â*1849.

https://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm

There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. Given that the
Chair of Saint Peter has been vacant since 1962, there probably isn't
anyÂ*salvationÂ*inÂ*itÂ*either.



The Roman church can get legalistic at times.

Contrast the above with the "pre" denominational
ancient church:

Â*Â*Â* A common explanation is that we know where the Church
Â*Â*Â* is, but not where it is not.€�As to those people who
Â*Â*Â* are good and kind but are not believers, we cannot
Â*Â*Â* and must not judge them. The ways of the Lord are
Â*Â*Â* inscrutable; let us leave these good people entirely
Â*Â*Â* to His judgment and to the grace of His Providence.
Â*Â*Â* He alone knows how and why He has built the argosy
Â*Â*Â* of humanity, and the small boat of each one of us,
Â*Â*Â* such as it is.€�
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* -St. Macarius of Optina





Ask your doctor about reducing the strength of your drugs.

On 08/09/2020 01:05 AM, T wrote:

The though process of Roman church baffles me at times.

In aggregate though, they are a force for good.

otoh, the thought process of Protestants always baffles me. The 33,000
different denominations is probably overstated but there are a lot when
you count all the unaffiliated groups. My wife's church shopping had
more to do with finding a cozy group rather than any doctrinal matters.

Even the mainstream denominations are splintered. The Evangelical
Lutheran Church has no use for the Missouri Synod and the Wisconsin
Synod thinks both of them are on the highway to hell. Individual ECLA
congregations don't even agree.

At least the Catechism of the Catholic Church states clearly what a
Catholic believes, what they don't believe, and what is dealer's choice.
For example if you want to believe the earth was created 6000 years ago
and people rode around on dinosaurs, go for it. Not many Catholics do
afaik, but it's not heretical.


They seriously need to dump the homosexual
priesthood and turn all predictors over to the
secular authorities.

Maybe I was lucky but none of the priests I had contact with were
predators. I will say the Catholic Church is a large target and the
belief is it has a lot of money. If the pastor of Billie Bob's Church of
the Risen Christ has short eyes the flock beats the **** out of him and
he slithers down the road to some other store front operation. Nobody is
keeping score. If a teacher or a day care worker is a pervert the
situation is handled and seldom makes more than the local paper if that.
There is no organization structure shuffling bad apples around.

Cynically, there's no money either. The lure of a big payday can help
bring back those repressed memories of being molested by Father Frank 40
years ago. That's no different than some of the people jumping on the
#MeToo bandwagon. Is there a problem? Yes, definitely. Is there the
potential for financial or political gains? You betcha.

On 08/09/2020 01:25 AM, T wrote:
The Roman church can get legalistic at times.

Contrast the above with the "pre" denominational
ancient church:

Right. This is the church that split off arguing about filoque? I
suppose that was more substantial than fighting over an iota.

On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 10:59:22 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


otoh, the thought process of Protestants always baffles me.

Your abnormal gossiping about each and every topic (however off topic)
baffles ME, lowbrowwoman! BG

On 09/08/2020 17:59, rbowman wrote:
On 08/09/2020 01:05 AM, T wrote:

The though process of Roman church baffles me at times.

In aggregate though, they are a force for good.

otoh, the thought process of Protestants always baffles me. The 33,000
different denominations is probably overstated but there are a lot when
you count all the unaffiliated groups. My wife's church shopping had
more to do with finding a cozy group rather than any doctrinal matters.

Even the mainstream denominations are splintered. The Evangelical
Lutheran Church has no use for the Missouri Synod and the Wisconsin
Synod thinks both of them are on the highway to hell. Individual ECLA
congregations don't even agree.

At least the Catechism of the Catholic Church states clearly what a
Catholic believes, what they don't believe, and what is dealer's choice.
For example if you want to believe the earth was created 6000 years ago
and people rode around on dinosaurs, go for it. Not many Catholics do
afaik, but it's not heretical.


They seriously need to dump the homosexual
priesthood and turn all predictors over to the
secular authorities.

Maybe I was lucky but none of the priests I had contact with were
predators. I will say the Catholic Church is a large target and the
belief is it has a lot of money. If the pastor of Billie Bob's Church of
the Risen Christ has short eyes the flock beats the **** out of him and
he slithers down the road to some other store front operation. Nobody is
keeping score. If a teacher or a day care worker is a pervert the
situation is handled and seldom makes more than the local paper if that.
There is no organization structure shuffling bad apples around.

Cynically, there's no money either. The lure of a big payday can help
bring back those repressed memories of being molested by Father Frank 40
years ago. That's no different than some of the people jumping on the
#MeToo bandwagon.Â* Is there a problem? Yes, definitely. Is there the
potential for financial or political gains? You betcha.

The Catholic church is the richest religion in the world.

The Catholic Church owns some of the greatest art works ever made. It
also has vast gold deposits and billions of dollars in assets. It also
earns a significant amount of income from the tourism sector as the
Vatican is considered an independent city-state. It also has more than a
billion members around the world.
They also don't have to show their books.

There are no taxes, no restrictions on the import or export of funds,
and no customs or excise duties payable in the Vatican City. Employees
of the Vatican pay no income tax and no customs duty on gasoline or
goods that they buy in the Vatican.

On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 11:13:23 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


Right. This is the church that split off arguing about filoque? I
suppose that was more substantial than fighting over an iota.

Oh, come on, lowbrowwoman! Let's discuss the filioque on ahr! You know you
want to do it, senile blabbermouth! BG

On 09/08/2020 17:59, rbowman wrote:
On 08/09/2020 01:05 AM, T wrote:

The though process of Roman church baffles me at times.

In aggregate though, they are a force for good.

otoh, the thought process of Protestants always baffles me. The 33,000
different denominations is probably overstated but there are a lot when
you count all the unaffiliated groups. My wife's church shopping had
more to do with finding a cozy group rather than any doctrinal matters.

Even the mainstream denominations are splintered. The Evangelical
Lutheran Church has no use for the Missouri Synod and the Wisconsin
Synod thinks both of them are on the highway to hell. Individual ECLA
congregations don't even agree.

At least the Catechism of the Catholic Church states clearly what a
Catholic believes, what they don't believe, and what is dealer's choice.
For example if you want to believe the earth was created 6000 years ago
and people rode around on dinosaurs, go for it. Not many Catholics do
afaik, but it's not heretical.


They seriously need to dump the homosexual
priesthood and turn all predictors over to the
secular authorities.

Maybe I was lucky but none of the priests I had contact with were
predators. I will say the Catholic Church is a large target and the
belief is it has a lot of money. If the pastor of Billie Bob's Church of
the Risen Christ has short eyes the flock beats the **** out of him and
he slithers down the road to some other store front operation. Nobody is
keeping score. If a teacher or a day care worker is a pervert the
situation is handled and seldom makes more than the local paper if that.
There is no organization structure shuffling bad apples around.

Cynically, there's no money either. The lure of a big payday can help
bring back those repressed memories of being molested by Father Frank 40
years ago. That's no different than some of the people jumping on the
#MeToo bandwagon.Â* Is there a problem? Yes, definitely. Is there the
potential for financial or political gains? You betcha.


The Vatican owes Rome some 5 billion euros.

The Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) ordered Italy to
recover the ICI property tax that the catholic Church never paid to the
Italian government. The European judges have decided to rule out a 2012
decision of the European Commission and a 2016 judgment of the EU Court
which allowed Rome to exempt the Vatican from paying taxes on its real
estate.
The previous verdicts stated €œthe impossibility of recovering the aid
due to organizational difficulties€�, but now the judges in Luxembourg
have revised their position, asserting that it is a matter of mere
€œinternal difficulties€� in Italy and that there is no reasons for that
money not to be paid.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/annalis...can-owes-rome/

Religions are all a massive con.

On 2020-08-09 09:59, rbowman wrote:
otoh, the thought process of Protestants always baffles me. The 33,000
different denominations is probably overstated but there are a lot when
you count all the unaffiliated groups. My wife's church shopping had
moreÂ*toÂ*doÂ*withÂ*findingÂ*aÂ*cozyÂ*groupÂ*rathe rÂ*thanÂ*anyÂ*doctrinalÂ*matters.

Especially when they are 98% the same. And the bible
teaches us not to squabble over such things.

On 2020-08-09 10:13, rbowman wrote:
On 08/09/2020 01:25 AM, T wrote:
The Roman church can get legalistic at times.

Contrast the above with the "pre" denominational
ancient church:

Right. This is the church that split off arguing about filoque? I
suppose that was more substantial than fighting over an iota.



The "filoque" is not Jesus' direct teaching. Jesus
was very clear about it. If you are in doubt as
to which side of the Great Schism was correct
(besides the Romans not wanting to help defend
against the Turks), check out which side still
follow the teaching of the seven ecumenical councils.
The homosexual priesthood was instated shortly after
the Romans left the apostolic church.

The Roman church reserves the right to make things
up as they go. The Romans straying from the teaching
of the Bible (filoque for example) and the economical
councils laying the ground work for the Reformation
and the death of 350,000 souls in the process. The
Roman church was complete in the wrong. "indulgences"
comes from what part of the Bible or what ecumenical
council? And selling them????

But as I said before, in aggregate, despite how
frustrating the Romans can be at times, they are still
a force for good in the world and are still my
brothers and sisters in Christ. And I say this as
a former Roman Catholic who skin crawls when I
come is contact with the Roman church. (My
stated reason for leaving was that I make
a terrible secular humanist and a worse communist.)