Could I be right in thinking that using a battery charger to recharge
a run-down car battery tends to reduce the life of the battery? On
more than a couple of ocasions, car batteries I have owned have not
survived long after I have used mains plug-in chargers to recharge
them.

The reason the batteries needed charging was not due to any fault in
the battery; it was due to the cars having ben standing, undriven, for
a long time.

Thanks,

Hank

On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 12:33:20 +0000, Hank wrote:

|!
|!Could I be right in thinking that using a battery charger to recharge
|!a run-down car battery tends to reduce the life of the battery?

Wrong.

|!more than a couple of ocasions, car batteries I have owned have not
|!survived long after I have used mains plug-in chargers to recharge
|!them.

|!The reason the batteries needed charging was not due to any fault in
|!the battery; it was due to the cars having ben standing, undriven, for
|!a long time.

Or the alternator is f*cked.

Or the battery is knackered, they only last a few years.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Compare and contrast
Sharia Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia
European Convention on Human Rights http://www.hri.org/docs/ECHR50.html
Then sign this petition http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Ban-Sharia

Hank wrote:
Could I be right in thinking that using a battery charger to recharge
a run-down car battery tends to reduce the life of the battery? On
more than a couple of ocasions, car batteries I have owned have not
survived long after I have used mains plug-in chargers to recharge
them.

The reason the batteries needed charging was not due to any fault in
the battery; it was due to the cars having ben standing, undriven, for
a long time.

Thanks,

Hank
Not at all. However batteries that get flat enough to need a charger are
usually knackered by that fact.

Once I get to having to charge a car battery, I am pretty much always in
need of a new one.

In article ,
Hank wrote:
Could I be right in thinking that using a battery charger to recharge
a run-down car battery tends to reduce the life of the battery? On
more than a couple of ocasions, car batteries I have owned have not
survived long after I have used mains plug-in chargers to recharge
them.

Quite the reverse; lead acid batteries last best when kept reasonably
fully charged - hence their continued use in cars where this is generally
the case. Of course like any battery they shouldn't be overcharged.

The reason the batteries needed charging was not due to any fault in
the battery; it was due to the cars having ben standing, undriven, for
a long time.

That is the cause of the problem - car type lead acid don't like being let
go 'flat'. If the car is to be unused for more than a couple of weeks or
so disconnect the battery.

--
*Marriage changes passion - suddenly you're in bed with a relative*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , Hank
writes
Could I be right in thinking that using a battery charger to recharge a
run-down car battery tends to reduce the life of the battery? On more
than a couple of ocasions, car batteries I have owned have not survived
long after I have used mains plug-in chargers to recharge them.

The reason the batteries needed charging was not due to any fault in
the battery; it was due to the cars having ben standing, undriven, for
a long time.

Lead acid batteries are easy to destroy. They do not handle deep
discharge well and suffer from sulphation of the lead plates inside.
This is where an insulating layer forms on the surface of the plate
reducing it's ability to do it's job.

It follows that it's best to keep them topped up from time to time, but
slapping one on a cheap charger that just pumps current in constantly
will also result in damage, particularly if the acid/water level inside
isn't monitored and is allowed to drop below the top of the plates.

Care of batteries that are not being used for a while is a mix of
occasional top-ups and a bit of discharging too. You can get devices
that apparently condition the battery by pulsing a brief high current
load across it while it's on a charger.

It's a complex subject!

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

In article ,
Clive Mitchell wrote:
You can get devices that apparently condition the battery by pulsing a
brief high current load across it while it's on a charger.

And the jury's out on whether this is just a gimmick.

--
*He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless, dead.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 12:47:57 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

|!Hank wrote:
|! Could I be right in thinking that using a battery charger to recharge
|! a run-down car battery tends to reduce the life of the battery? On
|! more than a couple of ocasions, car batteries I have owned have not
|! survived long after I have used mains plug-in chargers to recharge
|! them.
|!
|! The reason the batteries needed charging was not due to any fault in
|! the battery; it was due to the cars having ben standing, undriven, for
|! a long time.
|!
|! Thanks,
|!
|! Hank
|!Not at all. However batteries that get flat enough to need a charger are
|!usually knackered by that fact.
|!
|!Once I get to having to charge a car battery, I am pretty much always in
|!need of a new one.

Not my experience! I left the car undriven for over a month and came back
to a discharged battery. Recharged it and a year later no more problems.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Compare and contrast
Sharia Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia
European Convention on Human Rights http://www.hri.org/docs/ECHR50.html
Then sign this petition http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Ban-Sharia

"Hank" wrote in message
...

Could I be right in thinking that using a battery charger to recharge
a run-down car battery tends to reduce the life of the battery? On
more than a couple of ocasions, car batteries I have owned have not
survived long after I have used mains plug-in chargers to recharge
them.

The reason the batteries needed charging was not due to any fault in
the battery; it was due to the cars having ben standing, undriven, for
a long time.

Thanks,

Hank

Even if it did, what else would you charge them with, a meat pie? )

John

--
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

"Hank" wrote in message
...

Could I be right in thinking that using a battery charger to recharge
a run-down car battery tends to reduce the life of the battery? On
more than a couple of ocasions, car batteries I have owned have not
survived long after I have used mains plug-in chargers to recharge
them.

The reason the batteries needed charging was not due to any fault in
the battery; it was due to the cars having ben standing, undriven, for
a long time.

The problem you experience has arisen through leaving the battery in a
discharged/part discharged condition for a length of time. The cells will
have sulphated up and the battery is scrap.

Buy another one, batteries are consumable items and are cheap! Next time you
lay-up a vehicle, pull one of the battery leads off (negative is best) and
trickle charge the battery periodically or invest in a little 'wall wart'
style battery charger that can be left connected permanently.

Julian.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
You can get devices that apparently condition the battery by pulsing a
brief high current load across it while it's on a charger.

And the jury's out on whether this is just a gimmick.

And it's out on those desulphation pills too.

And the chemical additives.

And those **** solar chargers that put out barely enough to light their
"power on" LED on a typical dull UK day.

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

In message , Julian
writes
Buy another one, batteries are consumable items and are cheap! Next
time you lay-up a vehicle, pull one of the battery leads off (negative
is best) and trickle charge the battery periodically or invest in a
little 'wall wart' style battery charger that can be left connected
permanently.

And don't skimp on the battery size to save pennies. Fit the biggest
that will go in the battery bay.

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

In article ,
Clive Mitchell wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
You can get devices that apparently condition the battery by pulsing a
brief high current load across it while it's on a charger.

And the jury's out on whether this is just a gimmick.

And it's out on those desulphation pills too.

And the chemical additives.

And those **** solar chargers that put out barely enough to light their
"power on" LED on a typical dull UK day.

And add those 'battery conditioners' at 40 quid when a realistic price
would be a tenner.

--
*Strip mining prevents forest fires.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hank wrote on 08/03/2007 :
Could I be right in thinking that using a battery charger to recharge
a run-down car battery tends to reduce the life of the battery? On
more than a couple of ocasions, car batteries I have owned have not
survived long after I have used mains plug-in chargers to recharge
them.

The reason the batteries needed charging was not due to any fault in
the battery; it was due to the cars having ben standing, undriven, for
a long time.

Thanks,

Hank

The discharge/charge cycle itself damages batteries, but this is normal
wear and and tear. If you use an old type battery charger which just
charges irrespective of need for charge, it is possible to overcharge
them which is seriously damaging to the battery.

Assuming none of the above, simply leaving a battery to go flat can
cause the most severe form of damage.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Thu, 8 Mar 2007 13:03:57 -0000, JohnW
wrote:

Not normally, but if it is a cheap charger ( = normal shop
model) that puts out too much charging current, in attempt to
get a "fast charge", it could do if left charging a fully
charged battery.

Thanks. I've never been quite clear about how long one should leave a
car battery on charge, using a cheap charger. I've generally left them
overnight, i.e., 8-12 hours. Is that about right?

My current car has been unused for the past 4 months and when I tried
to start her up today, there was just barely enough charge left in the
battery to fire the engine up. So I have put the battery on charge
(using a cheap charger).

Thanks also to the other respondees.

Hank

Harry Bloomfield writes:

Assuming none of the above, simply leaving a battery to go flat can
cause the most severe form of damage.

As an aside much maligned NiCd batteries _can_ be left flat and not
suffer. Though of course reverse charging is bad so you must not run a
multi-cell battery into the ground.

Jon

Huge wrote:

And I'm going to buy a second one for the (ride-on) lawnmower, whose
battery is dead as a door-nail, as we discovered yesterday.

Ride-on mowers and mini-tractors are really battery killers in my
experience, not because they work the battery hard or anything but
simply because they get left unused for long periods. As many others
have pointed out here it's leaving lead acid batteries uncharged (and
thus self-discharge) is what kills them.

I have both a ride-on mower and a mini-tractor and after losing a
couple of batteries this way I now have a Gunson's "automatic" charger
for each which is left connected most of the time, but especially over
the winter.

(That reminds me, see separate thread about connectors)

--
Chris Green

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2007-03-09, wrote:
Huge wrote:

And I'm going to buy a second one for the (ride-on) lawnmower, whose
battery is dead as a door-nail, as we discovered yesterday.

Ride-on mowers and mini-tractors are really battery killers in my
experience, not because they work the battery hard or anything but
simply because they get left unused for long periods. As many others
have pointed out here it's leaving lead acid batteries uncharged (and
thus self-discharge) is what kills them.

Sadly, this has the opposite problem. It's been on a charger on a timer
all winter, on low charge for 15 minutes a day. Sadly, this is
still excessive, and it electrolysed all the acid away.

Surely not at just 15mins/day? A modern car alternator charges the battery
at about 14.8 volts, think how many hours a car battery spends at this
voltage without any problems. Would a little trickle charger (I assume this
is what you use) ever bring the battery voltage up to such levels.

(as an aside, I've overcome the problem with one of those little wall wart
chargers, Gunsons do a (IIRC) 500mA output one for just over a fiver. I've
added a few 10 Watt ceramic resistors into the circuit to cut charge current
down to vehicle parasitic losses + about 50mA. - stays on 24/7 in the
winter.)

Julian.

In article ,
Huge wrote:
And add those 'battery conditioners' at 40 quid when a realistic price
would be a tenner.

OTOH the one I have has saved my GBP50/yr for new car batteries.

As would any battery charger.

And I'm going to buy a second one for the (ride-on) lawnmower, whose
battery is dead as a door-nail, as we discovered yesterday.

Most electronics are like that, anyway. Ever taken an ECU to pieces? 5
quids worht of electronics in a 10 quid die-cast box, which costs 600
quid from the manufacturer.

My point is you can buy a proper charger that will float a battery after
charging it for less. Or even a 'three stage' small one (6 amp max) from
Lidl for a tenner - although of course they never have stock when you want
something. The small conditioners only should cost no more than any
other wall wart - say a tenner.

--
*No husband has ever been shot while doing the dishes *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , Huge
writes
On 2007-03-09, wrote:
Huge wrote:

And I'm going to buy a second one for the (ride-on) lawnmower, whose
battery is dead as a door-nail, as we discovered yesterday.

Ride-on mowers and mini-tractors are really battery killers in my
experience, not because they work the battery hard or anything but
simply because they get left unused for long periods. As many others
have pointed out here it's leaving lead acid batteries uncharged (and
thus self-discharge) is what kills them.

Sadly, this has the opposite problem. It's been on a charger on a timer
all winter, on low charge for 15 minutes a day. Sadly, this is
still excessive, and it electrolysed all the acid away. Topping it
up and leaving on charge all night has revitalised it enough to start
the mower and mow the grass (in March!), but I don't hold out much
hope for it to have a long and happy life!

I've just had exactly the same problem having left a battery on trickle
charge for a couple of months - took over a litre of water to refill

--
geoff

On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:09:18 GMT, Clive Mitchell
wrote:

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
You can get devices that apparently condition the battery by pulsing a
brief high current load across it while it's on a charger.

And the jury's out on whether this is just a gimmick.

And it's out on those desulphation pills too.

Worked for me once - Car OK until one day when:

Got in car in morning - battery flat - jump start - drive to work 20
miles.

8 hours later after work - battery flat - jump start - drive home 20
miles - take battery out - trickle overnight.

Next day battery replaced - drive to work.

8 hours later battery flat - jump start - drive home trickle charge
but noticed 5 cells were gassing, one wasn't.

Imediately purchased a pack of 'Battery Aid' pills - put 4 in the
dodgy cell and one each in the others.

Battery was then good for over a year - including a bad winter, after
which I sold the car.

Have been unable to find the pills recently. £3 to extend the life of
a battery for a substantial time seemed good value.

GrahamC

JohnW laid this down on his screen :
Huge, in article , says...

Sadly, this has the opposite problem. It's been on a charger on a timer
all winter, on low charge for 15 minutes a day. Sadly, this is
still excessive, and it electrolysed all the acid away. Topping it
up and leaving on charge all night has revitalised it enough to start
the mower and mow the grass (in March!), but I don't hold out much
hope for it to have a long and happy life!


I'm considering getting one of these myself - hoping for
feedback following my earlier posting :-)

http://tinyurl.com/bz7ma

Lidl have a regular special offer of an absolutely identical one of
these chargers, at around £12. Same PCB inside, same charging method,
just a slightly different case and name on the front.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Hank wrote:
Could I be right in thinking that using a battery charger to recharge
a run-down car battery tends to reduce the life of the battery? On
more than a couple of ocasions, car batteries I have owned have not
survived long after I have used mains plug-in chargers to recharge
them.

Quite the reverse; lead acid batteries last best when kept reasonably
fully charged - hence their continued use in cars where this is generally
the case. Of course like any battery they shouldn't be overcharged.

The reason the batteries needed charging was not due to any fault in
the battery; it was due to the cars having ben standing, undriven, for
a long time.

That is the cause of the problem - car type lead acid don't like being let
go 'flat'. If the car is to be unused for more than a couple of weeks or
so disconnect the battery.

And spend a week getting the electronics to work again when you reconnect..

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I'm considering getting one of these myself - hoping for
feedback following my earlier posting :-)

http://tinyurl.com/bz7ma

Lidl have a regular special offer of an absolutely identical one of
these chargers, at around £12. Same PCB inside, same charging method,
just a slightly different case and name on the front.

Yes - I bought one and it works very well. It's what I mean by excessive
prices from some retailers.

--
*This message has been ROT-13 encrypted twice for extra security *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
That is the cause of the problem - car type lead acid don't like being
let go 'flat'. If the car is to be unused for more than a couple of
weeks or so disconnect the battery.

And spend a week getting the electronics to work again when you
reconnect..

You could always make sure you buy a car where this doesn't happen. But if
the battery's going to go flat anyway...

--
*Why do we say something is out of whack? What is a whack?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 10 Mar, 19:02, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I'm considering getting one of these myself - hoping for
feedback following my earlier posting :-)
http://tinyurl.com/bz7ma
Lidl have a regular special offer of an absolutely identical one of
these chargers, at around £12. Same PCB inside, same charging method,
just a slightly different case and name on the front.

Yes - I bought one and it works very well. It's what I mean by excessive
prices from some retailers.

--
*This message has been ROT-13 encrypted twice for extra security *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

They are now £4.99 in my local Lidl

On 10 Mar 2007 11:54:29 -0800, "vroomfondel"
wrote:

On 10 Mar, 19:02, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I'm considering getting one of these myself - hoping for
feedback following my earlier posting :-)
http://tinyurl.com/bz7ma
Lidl have a regular special offer of an absolutely identical one of
these chargers, at around £12. Same PCB inside, same charging method,
just a slightly different case and name on the front.

Yes - I bought one and it works very well. It's what I mean by excessive
prices from some retailers.

--
*This message has been ROT-13 encrypted twice for extra security *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

They are now £4.99 in my local Lidl


Yes, but then you have to go into Lidl...


--

..andy

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 20:47:58 +0000, Owain
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
They are now £4.99 in my local Lidl
Yes, but then you have to go into Lidl...

Don't you have people who could do that for you?

Owain




No, they live too far away...


--

..andy

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Hank wrote:
Could I be right in thinking that using a battery charger to recharge
a run-down car battery tends to reduce the life of the battery? On
more than a couple of ocasions, car batteries I have owned have not
survived long after I have used mains plug-in chargers to recharge
them.
Quite the reverse; lead acid batteries last best when kept
reasonably
fully charged - hence their continued use in cars where this is generally
the case. Of course like any battery they shouldn't be overcharged.

The reason the batteries needed charging was not due to any fault in
the battery; it was due to the cars having ben standing, undriven, for
a long time.
That is the cause of the problem - car type lead acid don't like
being let
go 'flat'. If the car is to be unused for more than a couple of weeks or
so disconnect the battery.

And spend a week getting the electronics to work again when you
reconnect..

.... Or not

I had to remove my car alarm, it would no longer communicate with the
fobs after a brown out [1]

[1] having not driven it for about 2 months

any car alarm experts out there ?

(I've temporarily forgotten the make, like an idiot)

--
geoff

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 23:24:24 +0000, Owain
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
They are now £4.99 in my local Lidl
Yes, but then you have to go into Lidl...
Don't you have people who could do that for you?
No, they live too far away...

I'm sure there are adverts in the appropriate columns of The Lady, Horse
and Hound, or International Investment Banker, for discreet Shopping
Agents, all commissions undertaken with perfect rectitude, purchases
from Aldi, Lidl, Argos hand-wrapped and delivered in a fake Gamages van,
also family jewels sold at Cash Converters, total privacy guaranteed.

Owain



Yes, but I'd need assurance of complete discretion....


--

..andy

In article ,
Huge wrote:
And add those 'battery conditioners' at 40 quid when a realistic
price would be a tenner.

OTOH the one I have has saved my GBP50/yr for new car batteries.

As would any battery charger.

Err, no. My el cheapo one has destroyed my lawnmower battery.

In the hands of the operator? But you don't have to pay large sums to get
auto chargers these days.

And I'm going to buy a second one for the (ride-on) lawnmower, whose
battery is dead as a door-nail, as we discovered yesterday.

Most electronics are like that, anyway. Ever taken an ECU to pieces? 5
quids worht of electronics in a 10 quid die-cast box, which costs 600
quid from the manufacturer.

My point is you can buy a proper charger that will float a battery
after charging it for less. Or even a 'three stage' small one (6 amp
max) from Lidl

That means repeatedly going to Lidl until they have one.

Or check their website.

--
*Real women don't have hot flashes, they have power surges.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.