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#1
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my
cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds. Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers? Thanks, Gary |
#2
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
"G Mulcaster" wrote in message ... Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds. Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers? Thanks, Gary I can say that based on three years of use, no. |
#3
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
G Mulcaster wrote:
Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds. Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers? Thanks, Gary Most likely, yes. It's a weak acid and will react with the cement and possibly the aggregate. I'd try to find another solution. (intended) |
#4
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:47:37 -0700, G Mulcaster
wrote: Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds. Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers? I use vinegar to clean hard water stains off of cement block walls. We have hard water -- calcium leaches into the block. It is mild, and after a short soak and scrub I rinse it off. A power washer would cause more damage. ["It’s easy to see why vinegar has been around for thousands of years—it has 1001 uses! From cooking and cleaning with vinegar, to gardening and home remedies, white distilled vinegar is one of the most versatile—and economical—products you can have on hand."] http://www.vinegartips.com/ |
#5
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
Mike Paulsen wrote:
G Mulcaster wrote: Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds. Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers? Thanks, Gary Most likely, yes. It's a weak acid and will react with the cement and possibly the aggregate. I'd try to find another solution. (intended) Hmmm, Organic vinegar such as apple cider vinegar is not acidic! |
#6
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
On Apr 25, 6:08*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
snip Hmmm, Organic vinegar such as apple cider vinegar is not acidic! Well, if it isn't acidic, then it isn't vinegar. Vinegar is a weak (~ 5%) solution of acetic acid in water. Some types may have various "flavourings" in addition, but it is the acid that makes it vinegar. High school chemistry class strikes again! Chris |
#7
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
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#8
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
Tony Hwang wrote:
wrote: On Apr 25, 6:08 pm, Tony Hwang wrote: snip Hmmm, Organic vinegar such as apple cider vinegar is not acidic! Well, if it isn't acidic, then it isn't vinegar. Vinegar is a weak (~ 5%) solution of acetic acid in water. Some types may have various "flavourings" in addition, but it is the acid that makes it vinegar. High school chemistry class strikes again! Chris Hmmm, When you have a heart burn due to too much stomach acid; acid refulux, take some apple cider vinegar what happens? No heart burn! You can tell from taste whether it is acidic or alkaline. Another example? Orange is acidic, lemon is not. Not so. All citrus has ascorbic acid. Junior high science class strikes again!! |
#9
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 15:27:54 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote: Orange is acidic, lemon is not. Ever get a squirt of lemon juice in your eye? It burns, thus acidic. Watch out for paper cuts on the fingers and lemon juice...it burns also! |
#10
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
"Tony Hwang" wrote in message ... wrote: On Apr 25, 6:08 pm, Tony Hwang wrote: snip Hmmm, Organic vinegar such as apple cider vinegar is not acidic! Well, if it isn't acidic, then it isn't vinegar. Vinegar is a weak (~ 5%) solution of acetic acid in water. Some types may have various "flavourings" in addition, but it is the acid that makes it vinegar. High school chemistry class strikes again! Chris Hmmm, When you have a heart burn due to too much stomach acid; acid refulux, take some apple cider vinegar what happens? No heart burn! You can tell from taste whether it is acidic or alkaline. Another example? Orange is acidic, lemon is not. Junior high science class strikes again!! Sorry but vinegar is acidic or it's not vinegar. BTW: Vinegar is more acidic than acid rain. So, yes, eventually it will eat away at even cement. od |
#12
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
"olddog" wrote in
: Sorry but vinegar is acidic or it's not vinegar. BTW: Vinegar is more acidic than acid rain. So, yes, eventually it will eat away at even cement. That will depend on the concentration of the acid. But it is rather well- known that pure acetic acid (which by the way freezes at around 12 degrees C, or around 53F IIRC) eats away stainless steel. -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
#13
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
I'm fairly sure vinegar contains acetic acid. Which may very
well react wtih the paving. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Tony Hwang" wrote in message ... Hmmm, Organic vinegar such as apple cider vinegar is not acidic! |
#14
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
Mix some of that apple cider vinegar wtih baking soda. See
if it bubbles. I'd have to guess it does. So, you add some more vinegar acid to your stomach, and the natural acid protection kicks in. Proving what? -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Tony Hwang" wrote in message ... Hmmm, When you have a heart burn due to too much stomach acid; acid refulux, take some apple cider vinegar what happens? No heart burn! You can tell from taste whether it is acidic or alkaline. Another example? Orange is acidic, lemon is not. Junior high science class strikes again!! |
#15
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
Citrus fruit = citric acid.
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. wrote in message m... Not so. All citrus has ascorbic acid. |
#16
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
Han wrote:
" wrote in m: Tony Hwang wrote: wrote: On Apr 25, 6:08 pm, Tony Hwang wrote: snip Hmmm, Organic vinegar such as apple cider vinegar is not acidic! Well, if it isn't acidic, then it isn't vinegar. Vinegar is a weak (~ 5%) solution of acetic acid in water. Some types may have various "flavourings" in addition, but it is the acid that makes it vinegar. High school chemistry class strikes again! Chris Hmmm, When you have a heart burn due to too much stomach acid; acid refulux, take some apple cider vinegar what happens? No heart burn! You can tell from taste whether it is acidic or alkaline. Another example? Orange is acidic, lemon is not. Not so. All citrus has ascorbic acid. Junior high science class strikes again!! Actually, citrus fruit has citric acid. Amazing! Three (3) carboxylic acid moieties per molecule, hence it is capable of chelating (capturing) calcium. That is the basis for use of citric acid (or trisodium citrate) as anticoagulants (preventing platelet activation and blood clotting). DAMHIKT Actually, citrus fruit has citric and ascorbic acids ) Vitamin C! |
#17
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 16:59:18 -0700, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 15:27:54 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote: Orange is acidic, lemon is not. Ever get a squirt of lemon juice in your eye? It burns, thus acidic. A strong base will also burn your eye. |
#18
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
All the chemists aside, I doubt the vinegar, used occasionally in this
manner, would be any more damaging than the normal pollutants in the air or rain. If it's worked for 3 years with no noticeable impact you are probably safe to continue. "G Mulcaster" wrote in message ... Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds. Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers? Thanks, Gary |
#19
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
"Oren" wrote in message ... ["It's easy to see why vinegar has been around for thousands of years-it has 1001 uses! From cooking and cleaning with vinegar, to gardening and home remedies, white distilled vinegar is one of the most versatile-and economical-products you can have on hand."] http://www.vinegartips.com/ Thanks for the useful link! |
#20
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:47:37 -0700, G Mulcaster
wrote: Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds. Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers? Thanks, Gary Probably, but maybe to an extent you would not notice. Vinegar on limestone makes it bubble carbon dioxide. |
#21
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 15:27:54 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote Re Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?: wrote: On Apr 25, 6:08 pm, Tony Hwang wrote: snip Hmmm, Organic vinegar such as apple cider vinegar is not acidic! Well, if it isn't acidic, then it isn't vinegar. Vinegar is a weak (~ 5%) solution of acetic acid in water. Some types may have various "flavourings" in addition, but it is the acid that makes it vinegar. High school chemistry class strikes again! Chris Hmmm, When you have a heart burn due to too much stomach acid; acid refulux, take some apple cider vinegar what happens? No heart burn! You can tell from taste whether it is acidic or alkaline. Another example? Orange is acidic, lemon is not. Junior high science class strikes again!! Wow dude. You don't know sh*t about chemistry. |
#22
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
Tony Hwang wrote:
wrote: On Apr 25, 6:08 pm, Tony Hwang wrote: snip Hmmm, Organic vinegar such as apple cider vinegar is not acidic! Well, if it isn't acidic, then it isn't vinegar. Vinegar is a weak (~ 5%) solution of acetic acid in water. Some types may have various "flavourings" in addition, but it is the acid that makes it vinegar. High school chemistry class strikes again! Chris Hmmm, When you have a heart burn due to too much stomach acid; acid refulux, take some apple cider vinegar what happens? No heart burn! You can tell from taste whether it is acidic or alkaline. Another example? Orange is acidic, lemon is not. Junior high science class strikes again!! Vinegar is acidic. Try testing with litmus paper. Or bicarbonate of soda. Common sense prevails. dadiOH |
#23
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
G Mulcaster wrote:
Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds. Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers? Being acidic, it *does* attack them; however, weak as it is, it would take many, many applications to notice anything. You can kill the moss with a dilute solution of chlorox, don't know if it does weeds too. Salt - table or rock - should do the weeds and keep them out for a while once it is watered in, maybe moss too. And as a last resort, there is always Round-Up dadiOH |
#24
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 08:33:50 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote: G Mulcaster wrote: Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds. Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers? Being acidic, it *does* attack them; however, weak as it is, it would take many, many applications to notice anything. You can kill the moss with a dilute solution of chlorox, don't know if it does weeds too. Salt - table or rock - should do the weeds and keep them out for a while once it is watered in, maybe moss too. And as a last resort, there is always Round-Up dadiOH Why is Roundup a "last resort"? It's very safe stuff, and quickly breaks down harmlessly after doing it's job. It's even approved for use with food crops. The only caution on the most concentrated version is that it is an eye irritant. Apparently it's safe to drink right out of the bottle, as there are no cautions whatsoever against it. Safer than Clorox. |
#25
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 08:33:50 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote: G Mulcaster wrote: Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds. Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers? Being acidic, it *does* attack them; however, weak as it is, it would take many, many applications to notice anything. You can kill the moss with a dilute solution of chlorox, don't know if it does weeds too. Salt - table or rock - should do the weeds and keep them out for a while once it is watered in, maybe moss too. And as a last resort, there is always Round-Up dadiOH Salt or Chlorox are more hazardous than RoundUp. Salt is probably the worse chemical to use if you are trying to protect nearby plants. Put a layer of lime over moss to control it. |
#26
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
"G Mulcaster" wrote:
Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds. You are using the wrong chemicals. Use glyphosphate for the weeds and a zinc formula for the moss; both are available as a concentrate to be mixed with water and applied in accordance with the instructions. Both are safe if used appropriately. Trying to use folksy home remedies is going to cause more problems in the long run than just using the proper, modern solution the first time. Jon |
#27
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
On Apr 26, 10:19*am, "dadiOH" wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote: wrote: On Apr 25, 6:08 pm, Tony Hwang wrote: *snip Hmmm, Organic vinegar such as apple cider vinegar is not acidic! Well, if it isn't acidic, then it isn't vinegar. *Vinegar is a weak (~ 5%) solution of acetic acid in water. *Some types may have various "flavourings" in addition, but it is the acid that makes it vinegar. High school chemistry class strikes again! Chris Hmmm, When you have a heart burn due to too much stomach acid; acid refulux, take some apple cider vinegar what happens? No heart burn! You can tell from taste whether it is acidic or alkaline. Another example? Orange is acidic, lemon is not. Junior high science class strikes again!! Vinegar is acidic. *Try testing with litmus paper. Or bicarbonate of soda. Common sense prevails. dadiOH- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Vinegar is not a pure substance and thus has no specific chemical formula. Vinegar is mainly water (H2O), but is also comprised of acetic acidic (the carboxylic acid which gives vinegar its pungent/ sour smell). Acetic acid's formula is CH3COOH. Vinegar is a liquid produced by the fermentation of alcohol into acetic acid as well as other fermentation by-products. The acetic acid concentration ranges typically from 4 to 8 percent by volume for table vinegar (typically 5%) and higher concentrations for pickling (up to 18%) although in some countries the minimum strength may be less. Natural vinegars also contain smaller amounts of tartaric acid, citric acid, and other acids. |
#28
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
"Mark" wrote in
: All the chemists aside, I doubt the vinegar, used occasionally in this manner, would be any more damaging than the normal pollutants in the air or rain. If it's worked for 3 years with no noticeable impact you are probably safe to continue. Possibly safe, but if used too often, accumulating acid may (I said may) eventually cause harm to vegetation or concrete. YMMV snicker -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
#29
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
On Apr 26, 11:27*am, "Jon Danniken"
wrote: "G Mulcaster" wrote: Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds. You are using the wrong chemicals. *Use glyphosphate for the weeds and a zinc formula for the moss; both are available as a concentrate to be mixed with water and applied in accordance with the instructions. *Both are safe if used appropriately. Trying to use folksy home remedies is going to cause more problems in the long run than just using the proper, modern solution the first time. Jon Also he could probably need some lime added to his yard. Sounds like it may be acidic and the vinegar is just making it worse in the long run. Yards in southern states are rarely too alkiline. When I moved into my current home I had a soil test done to see how much lime I needed. It was so acidic I had to spread a truck load on it , wait a year then check again to see how much more I would need. Jimmie |
#30
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
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#31
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
Tony Hwang wrote:
wrote: On Apr 25, 6:08 pm, Tony Hwang wrote: snip Hmmm, Organic vinegar such as apple cider vinegar is not acidic! Well, if it isn't acidic, then it isn't vinegar. Vinegar is a weak (~ 5%) solution of acetic acid in water. Some types may have various "flavourings" in addition, but it is the acid that makes it vinegar. High school chemistry class strikes again! Chris Hmmm, When you have a heart burn due to too much stomach acid; acid refulux, take some apple cider vinegar what happens? No heart burn! You can tell from taste whether it is acidic or alkaline. Another example? Orange is acidic, lemon is not. Junior high science class strikes again!! How much bad information can one thread contain. Lemons ARE acidic. Apple cider vinegar IS acidic. Heartburn is not caused by too much acid but the acid being pushed above the stomach onto sensitive tissues. Many people don't have enough acid in the stomach to digest properly, and that can cause heartburn, taking antacids can feel better because of less acid to cause pain, but will hinder proper digestion further. |
#32
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let me add to thread
As a chemist who had to study German, I note that acetic acid is,
Essigsäure in German and Essig is the German name for vinegar. Historically, I assume that as vinegar has been around forever, when the German's started to develop their chemical talents and extracted acetic acid from vinegar, they naturally called it vinegar acid. Similar nomenclature evolved for formic acid (Ameisensäure) which is found in ants (Ameise). |
#33
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let me add to thread
Frank wrote in news:gt4657$d4a$1
@news.eternal-september.org: As a chemist who had to study German, I note that acetic acid is, Essigsäure in German and Essig is the German name for vinegar. Historically, I assume that as vinegar has been around forever, when the German's started to develop their chemical talents and extracted acetic acid from vinegar, they naturally called it vinegar acid. Similar nomenclature evolved for formic acid (Ameisensäure) which is found in ants (Ameise). Same in Dutch: Azijn is vinegar Azijnzuur is acetic acid Mier is ant Mierezuur is formic acid But the real point is that vinegar or dilute acetic acid solutions are mild, but pure concentrated acetic acid is an aggressive acid, though not an oxidant like sulfuric or nitric acids. -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
#34
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let me add to thread
Han wrote:
Frank wrote in news:gt4657$d4a$1 @news.eternal-september.org: As a chemist who had to study German, I note that acetic acid is, Essigsäure in German and Essig is the German name for vinegar. Historically, I assume that as vinegar has been around forever, when the German's started to develop their chemical talents and extracted acetic acid from vinegar, they naturally called it vinegar acid. Similar nomenclature evolved for formic acid (Ameisensäure) which is found in ants (Ameise). Same in Dutch: Azijn is vinegar Azijnzuur is acetic acid Mier is ant Mierezuur is formic acid But the real point is that vinegar or dilute acetic acid solutions are mild, but pure concentrated acetic acid is an aggressive acid, though not an oxidant like sulfuric or nitric acids. Yes but for attacking cement, I don't know for sure. I do know that muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) will attack cement and that no oxidation is involved. Me, I would not use vinegar on cement to be on the safe side. OP could run test and take a chip of brick and let sit in vinegar. |
#35
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let me add to thread
Frank wrote in
: Han wrote: Frank wrote in news:gt4657$d4a$1 @news.eternal-september.org: As a chemist who had to study German, I note that acetic acid is, Essigsäure in German and Essig is the German name for vinegar. Historically, I assume that as vinegar has been around forever, when the German's started to develop their chemical talents and extracted acetic acid from vinegar, they naturally called it vinegar acid. Similar nomenclature evolved for formic acid (Ameisensäure) which is found in ants (Ameise). Same in Dutch: Azijn is vinegar Azijnzuur is acetic acid Mier is ant Mierezuur is formic acid But the real point is that vinegar or dilute acetic acid solutions are mild, but pure concentrated acetic acid is an aggressive acid, though not an oxidant like sulfuric or nitric acids. Yes but for attacking cement, I don't know for sure. I do know that muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) will attack cement and that no oxidation is involved. Me, I would not use vinegar on cement to be on the safe side. OP could run test and take a chip of brick and let sit in vinegar. Brick is far from concrete. I don't think you can compare that. Concrete is made with portland cement which is basic. Seems to me (but I'm not really sure) that concrete would be slowly attacked by acid. Muriatic acid is diluted hydrochloric acid (not concentrated, but I would not drink it , while vinegar should be almost safe to drink - think pickles). I think that muriatic acid etches concrete and cleans it for instance for a repair, ensuring new concrete adheres properly. -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
#36
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let me add to thread
Han wrote:
Brick is far from concrete. I don't think you can compare that. Concrete is made with portland cement which is basic. Seems to me (but I'm not really sure) that concrete would be slowly attacked by acid. Muriatic acid is diluted hydrochloric acid (not concentrated, but I would not drink it , while vinegar should be almost safe to drink - think pickles). I think that muriatic acid etches concrete and cleans it for instance for a repair, ensuring new concrete adheres properly. Safety Hint: Don't drink the pickle juice until all the pickles are gone or, if you do, wear goggles. |
#37
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:47:37 -0700, G Mulcaster
wrote: Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds. Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers? Thanks, Gary Thanks to everyone for your responses. On balance, it would appear that vinegar is not the solution to use. Time to come up with a plan "B". Regards, Gary |
#38
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
On Apr 28, 9:03*pm, G Mulcaster wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:47:37 -0700, G Mulcaster wrote: Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds. Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers? Thanks, Gary Thanks to everyone for your responses. *On balance, it would appear that vinegar is not the solution to use. Time to come up with a plan "B". Regards, Gary Vinegar wont hurt anything, it evaporates to quickly and changes from acid to neutral its interaction, even Muriatic evaporates and looses its efectivness fast, it doesnt have the time necessary to do anything but clean the top layer. In stone cleaniing after 5 minutes with muriatic I find its done its job its deactivated mostly so you wash it off |
#39
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Does vinegar harm cement paving bricks?
G Mulcaster wrote in
: On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:47:37 -0700, G Mulcaster wrote: Over the last three years I've been spraying strength vinegar on my cement based pavers to kill moss and weeds. Works well; however, does vinegar harm cement based pavers? Thanks, Gary Thanks to everyone for your responses. On balance, it would appear that vinegar is not the solution to use. Time to come up with a plan "B". Regards, Gary Plan "B": Boiling water, just pour, but it should really be as close to boiling as you can get it there. -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
#40
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let me add to thread
Han wrote:
Frank wrote in : Han wrote: Frank wrote in news:gt4657$d4a$1 @news.eternal-september.org: As a chemist who had to study German, I note that acetic acid is, Essigsäure in German and Essig is the German name for vinegar. Historically, I assume that as vinegar has been around forever, when the German's started to develop their chemical talents and extracted acetic acid from vinegar, they naturally called it vinegar acid. Similar nomenclature evolved for formic acid (Ameisensäure) which is found in ants (Ameise). Same in Dutch: Azijn is vinegar Azijnzuur is acetic acid Mier is ant Mierezuur is formic acid But the real point is that vinegar or dilute acetic acid solutions are mild, but pure concentrated acetic acid is an aggressive acid, though not an oxidant like sulfuric or nitric acids. Yes but for attacking cement, I don't know for sure. I do know that muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) will attack cement and that no oxidation is involved. Me, I would not use vinegar on cement to be on the safe side. OP could run test and take a chip of brick and let sit in vinegar. Brick is far from concrete. I don't think you can compare that. Concrete is made with portland cement which is basic. Seems to me (but I'm not really sure) that concrete would be slowly attacked by acid. Muriatic acid is diluted hydrochloric acid (not concentrated, but I would not drink it , while vinegar should be almost safe to drink - think pickles). I think that muriatic acid etches concrete and cleans it for instance for a repair, ensuring new concrete adheres properly. OP said "cement paving brick". If it's same stuff I have in part of a retaining wall and fireplace in family room, it's concrete cast in individual brick form. In my case, these are white bricks and impossible to get clean of fireplace soot. Many years ago, I used muriatic acid for cleaning and etching basement floor for painting. I'm sure a swabbing would just be neutralized and this would hold for vinegar but a lot of acid would probably be corrosive. |
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