Hello, my house was built in the 80s and is located in the NE United States.. I recently had a handyman in to do some work outside replacing some rotten wood and he said it looks like some corners were cut when the house was built, the builders did not install 'flashing' around the edges of the roof, and the roof doesnt overhang the siding in many places. Also he said the house doesn't have a 'membrane' layer, which is is a more recent requirement.. As a result water can get behind the siding and cause rot. He thinks that the roof shingles need to be replaced in order to install the flashing. I think the shingles are in pretty good shape. Its not the original roof, but it is at least 10 years old. I dont want to get a new roof if I dont need to. He knows a roofing guy who will take a look, but I plan to get an independent roofer to check as well. Does the bit about flashing sound correct? And can flashing be installed without replacing the whole roof? Thanks

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 9:03:54 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Hello, my house was built in the 80s and is located in the NE United States. I recently had a handyman in to do some work outside replacing some rotten wood and he said it looks like some corners were cut when the house was built, the builders did not install 'flashing' around the edges of the roof,

You can add drip flashing there, just by sliding it under the shingles.
The shingles should not be nailed that close to the edge.

and the roof doesnt overhang the siding in many places.

?? You mean the shingles don't overhang the edge of the roof enough?
You could install flashing under the shingles there too.



Also he said the house doesn't have a 'membrane' layer, which is is a more recent requirement. As a result water can get behind the siding and cause rot.

Depends on what locations he's talking about. If it's at the lower portion
of the roof, above the gutters, that would only be an issue with ice damming.
That happens when snow melts, but the bottom of the roof is still blocked
with snow and ice and the water backs up. It can run into the house and
cause damage. If you are somewhere that it happens enough, I guess it can
lead to rot too, but water at the interior walls or ceilings is the typical
problem. By code in locations where ice damming occurs, there is supposed
to be a water barrier applied from the bottom edge of the roof up to two
feet above where the roof plane crosses a heated wall.



He thinks that the roof shingles need to be replaced in order to install the flashing.

If it's just flashing at the edges, the answer is no. Even if it was other
flashing, eg step flashing, you could get that in there and only have to
remove and replace the shingles in that area. To install a membrane though,
then IDK. I guess you could just take off shingles from the lower several
feet, then replace. But with any of the work where it gets to replacing
shingles, since the roof is 10 years old, they won't match.



I think the shingles are in pretty good shape. Its not the original roof, but it is at least 10 years old. I dont want to get a new roof if I dont need to. He knows a roofing guy who will take a look, but I plan to get an independent roofer to check as well. Does the bit about flashing sound correct? And can flashing be installed without replacing the whole roof? Thanks

Where exactly is the rot? How extensive? What was the initial problem
that got him involved? If they didn't have the shingles overhang the
roof properly and/or didn't put flashing there, that can easily lead to
the fascia boards on the soffits, behind the gutters rotting.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 8 Nov 2019 06:03:48 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Hello, my house was built in the 80s and is located in the NE United States. I recently had a handyman in to do some work outside replacing some rotten wood and he said it looks like some corners were cut when the house was built, the builders did not install 'flashing' around the edges of the roof, and the roof doesnt overhang the siding in many places.

I've very little experience, but I've seen many houses where the roof
overhangs not at all, although the gutters overhang the width of the
gutters.

Also he said the house doesn't have a 'membrane' layer, which is is a more recent requirement. As a result water can get behind the siding and cause rot.

How long have you been there? Have any of these probless? (Oh, yes,
some wood rot somewhere)

If ice dams have bee a problem -- temperature is high enough for snow on
top to melt but ice closer to the edge of the room keeps it from running
off the roof -- there are some metal things I see nailed to the roof
that I think are intended to stop that. Unless of course tthey are for
some other reason, like keeping piles of snow from sliding off the room
onto visitors on the porch.

Maybe someone will say what they are for and if that, maybe they can
relieve ice dams.

He thinks that the roof shingles need to be replaced in order to install the flashing. I think the shingles are in pretty good shape. Its not the original roof, but it is at least 10 years old. I dont want to get a new roof if I dont need to. He knows a roofing guy who will take a look, but I plan to get an independent roofer to check as well. Does the bit about flashing sound correct? And can flashing be installed without replacing the whole roof? Thanks

It will be a good way to judge the roofer if he says, Yes, you can just
slide the flashing in from the edge. versus Yeah, you need a roof.
Keep notes of who is who.


There is also flashing used at chimneys and valleys. I presume you have
any that is needed there.

writes:

Hello, my house was built in the 80s and is located in the NE United
States. I recently had a handyman in to do some work outside replacing
some rotten wood and he said it looks like some corners were cut when
the house was built, the builders did not install 'flashing' around
the edges of the roof, and the roof doesnt overhang the siding in many
places. Also he said the house doesn't have a 'membrane' layer, which
is is a more recent requirement. As a result water can get behind the
siding and cause rot. He thinks that the roof shingles need to be
replaced in order to install the flashing. I think the shingles are in
pretty good shape. Its not the original roof, but it is at least 10
years old. I dont want to get a new roof if I dont need to. He knows
a roofing guy who will take a look, but I plan to get an independent
roofer to check as well. Does the bit about flashing sound correct?
And can flashing be installed without replacing the whole roof? Thanks

You don't need to replace the whole roof.
Depending on the age of the roof, you may want to do that if you're
having work done.

To install flashing, you need to remove the row of shingles between the
wall and the roof. Maybe one or 2 rows, that's all. More important,
yoou need to remove siding to get at the wall/roof interface. The flashing
bridges that space.

I'm having that kind of work done right now.

--
Dan Espen

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:38:13 PM UTC-5, Dan Espen wrote:
writes:

Hello, my house was built in the 80s and is located in the NE United
States. I recently had a handyman in to do some work outside replacing
some rotten wood and he said it looks like some corners were cut when
the house was built, the builders did not install 'flashing' around
the edges of the roof, and the roof doesnt overhang the siding in many
places. Also he said the house doesn't have a 'membrane' layer, which
is is a more recent requirement. As a result water can get behind the
siding and cause rot. He thinks that the roof shingles need to be
replaced in order to install the flashing. I think the shingles are in
pretty good shape. Its not the original roof, but it is at least 10
years old. I dont want to get a new roof if I dont need to. He knows
a roofing guy who will take a look, but I plan to get an independent
roofer to check as well. Does the bit about flashing sound correct?
And can flashing be installed without replacing the whole roof? Thanks

You don't need to replace the whole roof.
Depending on the age of the roof, you may want to do that if you're
having work done.

To install flashing, you need to remove the row of shingles between the
wall and the roof. Maybe one or 2 rows, that's all. More important,
yoou need to remove siding to get at the wall/roof interface. The flashing
bridges that space.

I'm having that kind of work done right now.

--
Dan Espen

That's if it's step flashing where a vertical wall meets the roof.
But from what he said:

'It looks like some corners were cut when the house was built, the builders did not install 'flashing' around the edges of the roof, and the roof doesnt overhang the siding in many places."


It could be just drip edge flashing. If there was no step flashing, he
should have big time leaking into the house. Sometimes you can even replace
step flashing without removing the siding, if it was installed correctly,
not nailed to the wall and about 1" gap was left at the bottom. Since it's
10 years old, if it comes to that, the next question is if it's in a location
where the new shingles not matching the weathered ones is noticeable and
matters.

On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 11:52:17 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 8 Nov 2019 06:03:48 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Hello, my house was built in the 80s and is located in the NE United States. I recently had a handyman in to do some work outside replacing some rotten wood and he said it looks like some corners were cut when the house was built, the builders did not install 'flashing' around the edges of the roof,


It's called Drip Molding
and the roof doesnt overhang the siding in many places.

Definitely a SHODDY job and poor design.

I've very little experience, but I've seen many houses where the roof
overhangs not at all, although the gutters overhang the width of the
gutters.

Also he said the house doesn't have a 'membrane' layer, which is is a more recent requirement. As a result water can get behind the siding and cause rot.

"Tar Paper" has been a REQUIREMENT for years - the newer membranes may
be better protection - but anyone who puts on a shingle roof without
"underlayment" is not worthy of being called a roofer. It should also
have ice and water guard on the lower 2 feet or so

How long have you been there? Have any of these probless? (Oh, yes,
some wood rot somewhere)

If ice dams have bee a problem -- temperature is high enough for snow on
top to melt but ice closer to the edge of the room keeps it from running
off the roof -- there are some metal things I see nailed to the roof
that I think are intended to stop that. Unless of course tthey are for
some other reason, like keeping piles of snow from sliding off the room
onto visitors on the porch.

Maybe someone will say what they are for and if that, maybe they can
relieve ice dams.

The "blades" in the roof are to prevent sheets of snow and ice feom
dropping on heads, cars, etc. The only way to prevent ice dams is
proper insulation and venting to prevent the snow from being melted
from below, and then freezing. Keep the heat from escaping from the
interior, and vent the bottom of the roof to get rid of any heat that
has escaped before it melts the snow.

As further protection, "ice and water guard" prevents water from
getting into the roof if it backs up under the shingles.

He thinks that the roof shingles need to be replaced in order to install the flashing. I think the shingles are in pretty good shape. Its not the original roof, but it is at least 10 years old. I dont want to get a new roof if I dont need to. He knows a roofing guy who will take a look, but I plan to get an independent roofer to check as well. Does the bit about flashing sound correct? And can flashing be installed without replacing the whole roof? Thanks

The drip molding MAY be possible to install without tearing off the
whole roof - but it's a nasty job. The bottom row of shingles will
have to be lifted - and they most likely will break - meaning they
have to be replaced - and they fit UNDER the row above them. Not
impossible - but perhaps almost as labor intensive as re-doing the
whole roof. While the old roof is off new sheathing can be installed
to replace where the edge has rotted - and provision can be made to
extend the roof beyond the outer edge of the siding too. Proper
underlay "membrane" and ice and water shield can be installed at the
same time. If the roof is 10 years old without amembrane it's most
likely high time to replace it anyway. Not to mention it is very
difficult to prooperly install the drip edge on rotted wood.
It will be a good way to judge the roofer if he says, Yes, you can just
slide the flashing in from the edge. versus Yeah, you need a roof.
Keep notes of who is who.


There is also flashing used at chimneys and valleys. I presume you have
any that is needed there.

On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 12:38:06 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

writes:

Hello, my house was built in the 80s and is located in the NE United
States. I recently had a handyman in to do some work outside replacing
some rotten wood and he said it looks like some corners were cut when
the house was built, the builders did not install 'flashing' around
the edges of the roof, and the roof doesnt overhang the siding in many
places. Also he said the house doesn't have a 'membrane' layer, which
is is a more recent requirement. As a result water can get behind the
siding and cause rot. He thinks that the roof shingles need to be
replaced in order to install the flashing. I think the shingles are in
pretty good shape. Its not the original roof, but it is at least 10
years old. I dont want to get a new roof if I dont need to. He knows
a roofing guy who will take a look, but I plan to get an independent
roofer to check as well. Does the bit about flashing sound correct?
And can flashing be installed without replacing the whole roof? Thanks

You don't need to replace the whole roof.
Depending on the age of the roof, you may want to do that if you're
having work done.

To install flashing, you need to remove the row of shingles between the
wall and the roof. Maybe one or 2 rows, that's all. More important,
yoou need to remove siding to get at the wall/roof interface. The flashing
bridges that space.

I'm having that kind of work done right now.
It's not "flashing" that is hios problem - it is the drip edge.

see https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/fra...-and-the-irc_o

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 4:28:04 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 11:52:17 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 8 Nov 2019 06:03:48 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Hello, my house was built in the 80s and is located in the NE United States. I recently had a handyman in to do some work outside replacing some rotten wood and he said it looks like some corners were cut when the house was built, the builders did not install 'flashing' around the edges of the roof,


It's called Drip Molding
and the roof doesnt overhang the siding in many places.

Definitely a SHODDY job and poor design.

I've very little experience, but I've seen many houses where the roof
overhangs not at all, although the gutters overhang the width of the
gutters.

Also he said the house doesn't have a 'membrane' layer, which is is a more recent requirement. As a result water can get behind the siding and cause rot.

"Tar Paper" has been a REQUIREMENT for years - the newer membranes may
be better protection - but anyone who puts on a shingle roof without
"underlayment" is not worthy of being called a roofer. It should also
have ice and water guard on the lower 2 feet or so

He didn't say it has no underlayment, only no membrane for ice damming.





How long have you been there? Have any of these probless? (Oh, yes,
some wood rot somewhere)

If ice dams have bee a problem -- temperature is high enough for snow on
top to melt but ice closer to the edge of the room keeps it from running
off the roof -- there are some metal things I see nailed to the roof
that I think are intended to stop that. Unless of course tthey are for
some other reason, like keeping piles of snow from sliding off the room
onto visitors on the porch.

Maybe someone will say what they are for and if that, maybe they can
relieve ice dams.

The "blades" in the roof are to prevent sheets of snow and ice feom
dropping on heads, cars, etc. The only way to prevent ice dams is
proper insulation and venting to prevent the snow from being melted
from below, and then freezing. Keep the heat from escaping from the
interior, and vent the bottom of the roof to get rid of any heat that
has escaped before it melts the snow.

As further protection, "ice and water guard" prevents water from
getting into the roof if it backs up under the shingles.

He thinks that the roof shingles need to be replaced in order to install the flashing. I think the shingles are in pretty good shape. Its not the original roof, but it is at least 10 years old. I dont want to get a new roof if I dont need to. He knows a roofing guy who will take a look, but I plan to get an independent roofer to check as well. Does the bit about flashing sound correct? And can flashing be installed without replacing the whole roof? Thanks

The drip molding MAY be possible to install without tearing off the
whole roof - but it's a nasty job. The bottom row of shingles will
have to be lifted - and they most likely will break - meaning they
have to be replaced - and they fit UNDER the row above them. Not
impossible - but perhaps almost as labor intensive as re-doing the
whole roof.

Oh, BS. You can very likely lift the bottom row of shingles to slide 1"
of drip edge under it. And he said the roof is about ten years old.
Ten year old roofs are repaired all the time without tearing the whole
thing off.


While the old roof is off new sheathing can be installed
to replace where the edge has rotted - and provision can be made to
extend the roof beyond the outer edge of the siding too.

I'd bet 99.99% the roof already extends beyond the siding. Now the
shingles may not be as long over the edge as they should be, but
too can be corrected with flashing without a new roof.



Proper
underlay "membrane" and ice and water shield can be installed at the
same time. If the roof is 10 years old without amembrane it's most
likely high time to replace it anyway.

WTF? Roofs go for 30+ years, the full life of the shingles, without
membranes. The membrane really
has nothing to do with the life of the roof and it's only required in
areas that are prone to ice damming. He said he has a FLASHING problem.

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 4:33:35 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 12:38:06 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

writes:

Hello, my house was built in the 80s and is located in the NE United
States. I recently had a handyman in to do some work outside replacing
some rotten wood and he said it looks like some corners were cut when
the house was built, the builders did not install 'flashing' around
the edges of the roof, and the roof doesnt overhang the siding in many
places. Also he said the house doesn't have a 'membrane' layer, which
is is a more recent requirement. As a result water can get behind the
siding and cause rot. He thinks that the roof shingles need to be
replaced in order to install the flashing. I think the shingles are in
pretty good shape. Its not the original roof, but it is at least 10
years old. I dont want to get a new roof if I dont need to. He knows
a roofing guy who will take a look, but I plan to get an independent
roofer to check as well. Does the bit about flashing sound correct?
And can flashing be installed without replacing the whole roof? Thanks

You don't need to replace the whole roof.
Depending on the age of the roof, you may want to do that if you're
having work done.

To install flashing, you need to remove the row of shingles between the
wall and the roof. Maybe one or 2 rows, that's all. More important,
yoou need to remove siding to get at the wall/roof interface. The flashing
bridges that space.

I'm having that kind of work done right now.
It's not "flashing" that is hios problem - it is the drip edge.

see https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/fra...-and-the-irc_o

Drip edge is a type of flashing.

Clare Snyder writes:

On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 12:38:06 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

writes:

Hello, my house was built in the 80s and is located in the NE United
States. I recently had a handyman in to do some work outside replacing
some rotten wood and he said it looks like some corners were cut when
the house was built, the builders did not install 'flashing' around
the edges of the roof, and the roof doesnt overhang the siding in many
places. Also he said the house doesn't have a 'membrane' layer, which
is is a more recent requirement. As a result water can get behind the
siding and cause rot. He thinks that the roof shingles need to be
replaced in order to install the flashing. I think the shingles are in
pretty good shape. Its not the original roof, but it is at least 10
years old. I dont want to get a new roof if I dont need to. He knows
a roofing guy who will take a look, but I plan to get an independent
roofer to check as well. Does the bit about flashing sound correct?
And can flashing be installed without replacing the whole roof? Thanks

You don't need to replace the whole roof.
Depending on the age of the roof, you may want to do that if you're
having work done.

To install flashing, you need to remove the row of shingles between the
wall and the roof. Maybe one or 2 rows, that's all. More important,
yoou need to remove siding to get at the wall/roof interface. The flashing
bridges that space.

I'm having that kind of work done right now.
It's not "flashing" that is hios problem - it is the drip edge.

see https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/fra...-and-the-irc_o

Now that you point that out, I agree.

Drip edge isn't 100% necessary, you might get some rot on the edge of
the roof but it shouldn't cause any leaking.

Drip edge should be installed with ice barrier membrane.
That's 4 or 5 feet of shingles to remove so might as well
replace the whole roof if you're going for it.

I wouldn't tear off a roof just for a drip edge.
It's easy enough to replace some plywood the next time
you need a total shingle replacement.

Just had 4 plywood sheets replaced in the work I'm having done now.

--
Dan Espen

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 6:35:18 PM UTC-5, Dan Espen wrote:
Clare Snyder writes:

On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 12:38:06 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

writes:

Hello, my house was built in the 80s and is located in the NE United
States. I recently had a handyman in to do some work outside replacing
some rotten wood and he said it looks like some corners were cut when
the house was built, the builders did not install 'flashing' around
the edges of the roof, and the roof doesnt overhang the siding in many
places. Also he said the house doesn't have a 'membrane' layer, which
is is a more recent requirement. As a result water can get behind the
siding and cause rot. He thinks that the roof shingles need to be
replaced in order to install the flashing. I think the shingles are in
pretty good shape. Its not the original roof, but it is at least 10
years old. I dont want to get a new roof if I dont need to. He knows
a roofing guy who will take a look, but I plan to get an independent
roofer to check as well. Does the bit about flashing sound correct?
And can flashing be installed without replacing the whole roof? Thanks

You don't need to replace the whole roof.
Depending on the age of the roof, you may want to do that if you're
having work done.

To install flashing, you need to remove the row of shingles between the
wall and the roof. Maybe one or 2 rows, that's all. More important,
yoou need to remove siding to get at the wall/roof interface. The flashing
bridges that space.

I'm having that kind of work done right now.
It's not "flashing" that is hios problem - it is the drip edge.

see https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/fra...-and-the-irc_o

Now that you point that out, I agree.

Drip edge isn't 100% necessary, you might get some rot on the edge of
the roof but it shouldn't cause any leaking.

Drip edge should be installed with ice barrier membrane.
That's 4 or 5 feet of shingles to remove so might as well
replace the whole roof if you're going for it.

Drip edge and ice barrier are two different things. Unless the OP is
actually having ice damming problems, why tear apart the roof? You
can slip drip edge in under the existing shingles.





I wouldn't tear off a roof just for a drip edge.
It's easy enough to replace some plywood the next time
you need a total shingle replacement.

Just had 4 plywood sheets replaced in the work I'm having done now.

--
Dan Espen

The big info lacking here is what was rotted that lead to discussion
about the roof. If it's rotted fascia boards, which it sounds like it
could be based on what the OP has said, it can be fixed with drip edge
or longer gutter flashing, that gets the water into the gutters, not
running behind it.