On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 09:19:51 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 2:25:45 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 13:00:31 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 10/17/2019 11:20 AM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-10-17, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Tesla can even help with trip planning and charging stations.

Why bother? Gas stations are almost everywhere, no planning required.

A friend was telling me this AM that he was at a meeting last night and
an old guy told him they had bought an electric car to save the
environment, blah, blah, blah and now his electric bill was $100 higher
each month. Wonder what he paid for gas on his previous vehicle. This
old guy would have to drive about 1,300 miles/month to pay that much for
gas.

Maybe not if there was tiered billing, no car subsidy and that put him
up into the premium tier where the rates jump.

Apparently a Tesla 3 has a 50kwh battery and a range of 220 miles.
That would work out to about $7 at .13 kwh electric rate. So for $100
you should be able to go about 3500 miles so that fellow must be doing
a lot of driving. Gas, at 25 MPG, $100, 40 gallons of gas, you would
only go 1000 miles. Which is consistent with stickers I've seen on
electric cars, ie the MPG equivalent is about 3X or so.


I agree the $100 is a stretch but if you have tiered billing that
extra 800kw might get billed at a much higher rate if they don't give
you a subsidy for your car. I also question the 220 miles if this guy
is a lead foot and likes that lightning fast acceleration you get with
a Tesla. I also bet that claimed 220 miles isn't on the interstate
doing 80. It is best case, egg between your foot and the accelerator,
Mobil gas economy run driving, on roads with moderate speed limits.
The thing that is true with electrics is you can go fast or you can go
far but you can't do both.
I really looked at throwing a conversion kit into my Honda but I could
never get the economics to work out and that is not buying a new
Tesla. It was just throwing five or six grand at a car I already had.
(plus my own labor)

writes:
On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 09:19:51 -0700 (PDT), trader_4


Apparently a Tesla 3 has a 50kwh battery and a range of 220 miles.
That would work out to about $7 at .13 kwh electric rate. So for $100
you should be able to go about 3500 miles so that fellow must be doing
a lot of driving. Gas, at 25 MPG, $100, 40 gallons of gas, you would
only go 1000 miles. Which is consistent with stickers I've seen on
electric cars, ie the MPG equivalent is about 3X or so.


I agree the $100 is a stretch but if you have tiered billing that
extra 800kw might get billed at a much higher rate if they don't give
you a subsidy for your car.

I also question the 220 miles ...

I also bet that claimed 220 miles isn't on the interstate ...


In other words, you have no clue and are basically guessing. A short
visit to google.com or tesla.com may answer some of your questions.

Mark Lloyd writes:
On 10/17/19 12:19 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

[snip]

$100 buys less than two tanks of gas nowadays[*]. Without knowing how many
miles that 'old guy' drives a month, you have no way of knowing whether
he's paying more or less. Note that maintenance costs for an electric
vehicle, over the life of the vehicle, are signficantly less.

[*] Geographically dependent, of course.

I remember a $79 fill-up once, when the price of gas was at its highest
here ($4/gal in east Texas). Its about $2.20/gal now.


I recall a station ijust outside of Yosemite with $6.50/gal
pricing (when oil hit $120/barrel and Highway CA140 was closed due to a
landslide along the merced river - the delivery trucks had to go the long
way around (CA120 or CA41 from fresno)).

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 18:00:10 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:
On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 09:19:51 -0700 (PDT), trader_4


Apparently a Tesla 3 has a 50kwh battery and a range of 220 miles.
That would work out to about $7 at .13 kwh electric rate. So for $100
you should be able to go about 3500 miles so that fellow must be doing
a lot of driving. Gas, at 25 MPG, $100, 40 gallons of gas, you would
only go 1000 miles. Which is consistent with stickers I've seen on
electric cars, ie the MPG equivalent is about 3X or so.


I agree the $100 is a stretch but if you have tiered billing that
extra 800kw might get billed at a much higher rate if they don't give
you a subsidy for your car.

I also question the 220 miles ...

I also bet that claimed 220 miles isn't on the interstate ...


In other words, you have no clue and are basically guessing. A short
visit to google.com or tesla.com may answer some of your questions.

Yeah, let me trust the sales pitch on Tesla.com
I bet you think vaping is safe too, just because it says so on the
Juul web site.
I have been reading car mileage claims for 60 years and one thing is
always true. It is the best case scenario (YMMV). For mileage that is
a steady speed of 45-55 mph unless the government was lying to us all
these years.
Interstate speeds around here are posted at 70 and 80 is a better
average. If that Tesla will go 220 miles at 80 I will kiss Elon Musk's
ass on the NBC evening news but I doubt he would even claim that out
loud.

On 10/18/19 8:41 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
rbowman writes:
On 10/17/2019 11:19 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Frank "frank writes:
On 10/17/2019 11:20 AM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-10-17, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Tesla can even help with trip planning and charging stations.

Why bother? Gas stations are almost everywhere, no planning required.

A friend was telling me this AM that he was at a meeting last night and
an old guy told him they had bought an electric car to save the
environment, blah, blah, blah and now his electric bill was $100 higher
each month. Wonder what he paid for gas on his previous vehicle. This
old guy would have to drive about 1,300 miles/month to pay that much for
gas.

$100 buys less than two tanks of gas nowadays[*]. Without knowing how many
miles that 'old guy' drives a month, you have no way of knowing whether
he's paying more or less. Note that maintenance costs for an electric
vehicle, over the life of the vehicle, are signficantly less.

[*] Geographically dependent, of course.


Do you drive a tank? My fillups are around 8 gallons and $20. Have you

16 gallons (24mpg) at $3.00/gal (car) $48.00
18 gallons (22mpg) at $3.00/gal (pickup) $54.00

factored in a new battery pack?

8 year warranty on the Tesla packs.

Prorated, I'm guessing.

On 10/18/2019 07:41 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
rbowman writes:
On 10/17/2019 11:19 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Frank "frank writes:
On 10/17/2019 11:20 AM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-10-17, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Tesla can even help with trip planning and charging stations.

Why bother? Gas stations are almost everywhere, no planning required.

A friend was telling me this AM that he was at a meeting last night and
an old guy told him they had bought an electric car to save the
environment, blah, blah, blah and now his electric bill was $100 higher
each month. Wonder what he paid for gas on his previous vehicle. This
old guy would have to drive about 1,300 miles/month to pay that much for
gas.

$100 buys less than two tanks of gas nowadays[*]. Without knowing how many
miles that 'old guy' drives a month, you have no way of knowing whether
he's paying more or less. Note that maintenance costs for an electric
vehicle, over the life of the vehicle, are signficantly less.

[*] Geographically dependent, of course.


Do you drive a tank? My fillups are around 8 gallons and $20. Have you

16 gallons (24mpg) at $3.00/gal (car) $48.00
18 gallons (22mpg) at $3.00/gal (pickup) $54.00

I'll stick with my car and its usual 35 mpg, thank you. And, no, it's
not a hybrid, just s Toyota with a conventional engine.


factored in a new battery pack?

8 year warranty on the Tesla packs.


Knowing how warranties usually work, that means I'd be shopping for a
battery about now. So, if it were a Prius rather than a Yaris I'd be
looking at at least $1600.

http://store.newpriusbatteries.com/2...ybrid-battery/

That's not even a full eCar.

On 10/18/2019 07:55 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/18/2019 9:41 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

factored in a new battery pack?

8 year warranty on the Tesla packs.


I wonder what the resale value is on a 9 year old Tesla.

About the same as a Cessna 152 with 1810 hours on the engine...

On 10/18/2019 10:31 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10/17/19 12:19 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

[snip]

$100 buys less than two tanks of gas nowadays[*]. Without knowing
how many
miles that 'old guy' drives a month, you have no way of knowing whether
he's paying more or less. Note that maintenance costs for an electric
vehicle, over the life of the vehicle, are signficantly less.

[*] Geographically dependent, of course.

I remember a $79 fill-up once, when the price of gas was at its highest
here ($4/gal in east Texas). Its about $2.20/gal now.


During one of the price spikes I watched a guy fill up his pickup that
had an auxiliary tank. He was still at it after I went in to drain the
lizard and get a cup of coffee. I felt his pain.

"It's to the women and men who in their hands hold a Bible and a gun
And they ain't afraid of nothing, when when they're holding either one
Now there's kids who can't pray in school
$100 dollar tanks of gas
I can tell you right now this country ain't
AIN'T SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE THAT!"

'That Ain't My America' Lynryd Skynyrd

On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 8:52:49 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 10/18/2019 10:31 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10/17/19 12:19 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

[snip]

$100 buys less than two tanks of gas nowadays[*]. Without knowing
how many
miles that 'old guy' drives a month, you have no way of knowing whether
he's paying more or less. Note that maintenance costs for an electric
vehicle, over the life of the vehicle, are signficantly less.

[*] Geographically dependent, of course.

I remember a $79 fill-up once, when the price of gas was at its highest
here ($4/gal in east Texas). Its about $2.20/gal now.


During one of the price spikes I watched a guy fill up his pickup that
had an auxiliary tank. He was still at it after I went in to drain the
lizard and get a cup of coffee. I felt his pain.

"It's to the women and men who in their hands hold a Bible and a gun
And they ain't afraid of nothing, when when they're holding either one
Now there's kids who can't pray in school

There's nothing to prevent kids from praying in school. They can
do it silently, as Christ recommended.

Cindy Hamilton

On 10/19/2019 04:17 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 8:52:49 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 10/18/2019 10:31 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10/17/19 12:19 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

[snip]

$100 buys less than two tanks of gas nowadays[*]. Without knowing
how many
miles that 'old guy' drives a month, you have no way of knowing whether
he's paying more or less. Note that maintenance costs for an electric
vehicle, over the life of the vehicle, are signficantly less.

[*] Geographically dependent, of course.

I remember a $79 fill-up once, when the price of gas was at its highest
here ($4/gal in east Texas). Its about $2.20/gal now.


During one of the price spikes I watched a guy fill up his pickup that
had an auxiliary tank. He was still at it after I went in to drain the
lizard and get a cup of coffee. I felt his pain.

"It's to the women and men who in their hands hold a Bible and a gun
And they ain't afraid of nothing, when when they're holding either one
Now there's kids who can't pray in school

There's nothing to prevent kids from praying in school. They can
do it silently, as Christ recommended.

I always did it very, very silently... I never quite got that 'under
god' phrase they slipped in the Pledge of Allegiance in '54, either.

Here's a little more Lynyrd Skynyrd for you:

"I'm here in my back of the woods
Where God is great and guns are good
You really can't know that much about 'm
If you think we're better off without 'm
Well there was a time we ain't forgot
You caressed all night with the doors unlocked
But there ain't nobody save no more
So you say your prayers and you thank the lord
For that peace maker
In the Dresser Drawer"

https://genius.com/Lynyrd-skynyrd-god-and-guns-lyrics

The band is more woke now than

"Hand guns are made for killing
They ain't no good for nothing else
And if you like to drink your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself

[Pre-Chorus]
So why don't we dump 'em, people, to the bottom of the sea?
Before some old fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you, or me

[Chorus]
Mister Saturday Night Special
You got a barrel that's blue and cold
You ain't good for nothing but puttin' men six feet in a hole"


https://genius.com/Lynyrd-skynyrd-sa...special-lyrics

On 10/19/19 5:17 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

[snip]

There's nothing to prevent kids from praying in school. They can
do it silently, as Christ recommended.

Cindy Hamilton

And that's the best way to do it. For me, it had to be that way,
regardless of any laws.

--
67 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other "sins"
are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful--just stupid.)
[Robert A. Heinlein]

On 19/10/19 12:55 am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/18/2019 9:41 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

factored in a new battery pack?

8 year warranty on the Tesla packs.


I wonder what the resale value is on a 9 year old Tesla.

About the same as any car that's past its use by date!

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 19/10/19 2:21 am, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-10-18, Scott Lurndal wrote:
8 year warranty on the Tesla packs.

If Tesla stays in business that long.

8 years is nothing when it comes to a car's service life. The average
age of the US fleet is 11 years. A 10-year-old Toyota still has a lot of
value and can deliver reliable service for years to come. Quite a few
people are driving cars 20+ years old that have not required major
repairs. A well-designed gasoline powered car will run for decades.

Keep the DemocRATs out of power and perhaps we can get rid of the carbon
credit scam. Tesla is a vampire company dependent on sinking its fangs
into others via that scam for its continued existence. If Tesla's victims
are removed from its grasp it will most likely perish in short order.

10 years (or less) is a car's *design life*.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 19/10/19 8:17 am, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/18/19 8:41 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
rbowman writes:
On 10/17/2019 11:19 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Frank "frank writes:
On 10/17/2019 11:20 AM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-10-17, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Tesla can even help with trip planning and charging stations.

Why bother? Gas stations are almost everywhere, no planning required.

A friend was telling me this AM that he was at a meeting last night
and
an old guy told him they had bought an electric car to save the
environment, blah, blah, blah and now his electric bill was $100
higher
each month.Â* Wonder what he paid for gas on his previous vehicle.
This
old guy would have to drive about 1,300 miles/month to pay that
much for
gas.

$100 buys less than two tanks of gas nowadays[*].Â*Â* Without knowing
how many
miles that 'old guy' drives a month, you have no way of knowing whether
he's paying more or less.Â*Â* Note that maintenance costs for an electric
vehicle, over the life of the vehicle, are signficantly less.

[*] Geographically dependent, of course.


Do you drive a tank? My fillups are around 8 gallons and $20. Have you

16 gallons (24mpg) at $3.00/gal (car)Â* $48.00
18 gallons (22mpg) at $3.00/gal (pickup) $54.00

factored in a new battery pack?

8 year warranty on the Tesla packs.

Â*Â*Â*Â* Prorated,Â* I'm guessing.

Toyota battery packs aren't prorated.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 2019-10-20, Xeno wrote:
10 years (or less) is a car's *design life*.

Tell that to all the people driving cars substantially older than that.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 10/16/19 10:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Stolen from another newsgroup

For those who think that EV's will "save" the "environment":

https://www.city-journal.org/electric-vehicle-batteries

Battery Derangement

Electric vehicles wont save the planet and wont survive without
subsidies.

Mark P. Mills
October 10, 2019

Cut article.

Supposedly, there is an alternative that will get a vehicle 1500 miles.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7592485/Father-eight-invents-electric-car-battery-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 13:03:45 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
wrote:

On 2019-10-20, Xeno wrote:
10 years (or less) is a car's *design life*.

Tell that to all the people driving cars substantially older than that.

Yeah, our "new" car is 12 and my Honda is 23, the truck is 20.

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 08:11:19 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:


On 10/16/19 10:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Stolen from another newsgroup

For those who think that EV's will "save" the "environment":

https://www.city-journal.org/electric-vehicle-batteries

Battery Derangement

Electric vehicles wont save the planet and wont survive without
subsidies.

Mark P. Mills
October 10, 2019

Cut article.

Supposedly, there is an alternative that will get a vehicle 1500 miles.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7592485/Father-eight-invents-electric-car-battery-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html

Yeah I remember the "Fish" carburetor was going to get 100 MPG and it
was always "about a year" from production. That was 50 years ago and
we are still waiting.

On 10/20/2019 12:28 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 13:03:45 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
wrote:

On 2019-10-20, Xeno wrote:
10 years (or less) is a car's *design life*.

Tell that to all the people driving cars substantially older than that.

Yeah, our "new" car is 12 and my Honda is 23, the truck is 20.

The seed-tender truck turned 60 last year, the older pick-em-up 20...the
new "town" pickup is 20 this year...

--

On 10/20/2019 07:11 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

On 10/16/19 10:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Stolen from another newsgroup

For those who think that EV's will "save" the "environment":

https://www.city-journal.org/electric-vehicle-batteries

Battery Derangement

Electric vehicles wont save the planet and wont survive without
subsidies.

Mark P. Mills
October 10, 2019

Cut article.

Supposedly, there is an alternative that will get a vehicle 1500 miles.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7592485/Father-eight-invents-electric-car-battery-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html


He may be late to the party:

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...n-cars-in-2017

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300017712.html

Either you need a vehicle to go to work because you have to carry products, tools or parts etc. in which case EV isnt going to cut it or you just need to carry yourself in which case the question is WHY do you have to in this paperless age of computers and internet and Facetime communications?

On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 1:31:42 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 08:11:19 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:


On 10/16/19 10:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Stolen from another newsgroup

For those who think that EV's will "save" the "environment":

https://www.city-journal.org/electric-vehicle-batteries

Battery Derangement

Electric vehicles wont save the planet and wont survive without
subsidies.

Mark P. Mills
October 10, 2019

Cut article.

Supposedly, there is an alternative that will get a vehicle 1500 miles.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7592485/Father-eight-invents-electric-car-battery-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html

Yeah I remember the "Fish" carburetor was going to get 100 MPG and it
was always "about a year" from production. That was 50 years ago and
we are still waiting.

There's a local guy here who claimed he had a revolutionary rotary valve
engine design. From what I gather, the essential difference was that
the valves were controlled via rotating openings, instead of normal
valves that go up and down. The claim was that it got much better
emissions, MPG, etc. He was taking investments from people, typically
some local small business guy, etc. At one point, the SEC came after
him, but somehow he resolved that. This went on for many, many years.
Last I heard, maybe ten years ago, he has some new deal where he
was going to build cars using the engine in some former USSR country.
He's ride around here in his Rolls Royce. Every time I heard about
this I thought the obvious. If this thing does what you claim,
then you'd think it would be very easy to prove it to various auto
makers, license it, cut a deal that would make everyone very rich.
You don't have to go into the auto business in Eastern Europe.

On 10/20/2019 11:30 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 08:11:19 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:


On 10/16/19 10:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Stolen from another newsgroup

For those who think that EV's will "save" the "environment":

https://www.city-journal.org/electric-vehicle-batteries

Battery Derangement

Electric vehicles wont save the planet and wont survive without
subsidies.

Mark P. Mills
October 10, 2019

Cut article.

Supposedly, there is an alternative that will get a vehicle 1500 miles.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7592485/Father-eight-invents-electric-car-battery-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html

Yeah I remember the "Fish" carburetor was going to get 100 MPG and it
was always "about a year" from production. That was 50 years ago and
we are still waiting.


I remember my father and uncle talking about all those great inventions
that were being suppressed by the automotive or electric industries --
as they worked their way through a case of Genesee. Those were 12 quart
cases, not those wimpy cases of 12 ounce cans.

On 10/20/2019 12:03 PM, wrote:

Either you need a vehicle to go to work because you have to carry products, tools or parts etc. in which case EV isnt going to cut it or you just need to carry yourself in which case the question is WHY do you have to in this paperless age of computers and internet and Facetime communications?


Exactly how is the computer going to deliver me to one of the area
trailheads?

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 12:51:27 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 10/20/2019 11:30 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 08:11:19 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:


On 10/16/19 10:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Stolen from another newsgroup

For those who think that EV's will "save" the "environment":

https://www.city-journal.org/electric-vehicle-batteries

Battery Derangement

Electric vehicles won’t save the planet and won’t survive without
subsidies.

Mark P. Mills
October 10, 2019

Cut article.

Supposedly, there is an alternative that will get a vehicle 1500 miles.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7592485/Father-eight-invents-electric-car-battery-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html

Yeah I remember the "Fish" carburetor was going to get 100 MPG and it
was always "about a year" from production. That was 50 years ago and
we are still waiting.


I remember my father and uncle talking about all those great inventions
that were being suppressed by the automotive or electric industries --
as they worked their way through a case of Genesee. Those were 12 quart
cases, not those wimpy cases of 12 ounce cans.

The "fish" carburetor may have worked on 1930's era vehicles with
1930's era gasoline - there is adequate evidence that it did - but the
change in gasoline composition rendered it impractical, at best - and
the change in automotive technology doomed it completely. It was NOT
a "supermileage" carb - and it DID go into production (several times)
and WAS used in nascar and powerboat racing, and supplied for VW
performance use. It was a simple carb - but suffered driveability
problems

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 13:03:45 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
wrote:

On 2019-10-20, Xeno wrote:
10 years (or less) is a car's *design life*.

Tell that to all the people driving cars substantially older than that.
Today's "design life" closer to 20 years, particularly for the better
japanese models - My old Ford PU is 24 now and just starting to show
rust -here in the south-central ontario rust belt - and over the last
7+ years I may have spent $1500 on repairs. No sign of quitting any
time soon - so it's not just the Japs (and Koreans).

The design life of a Mitsubishi or Mazda may be closer to 10 - and
some of the GM products

On 10/20/2019 2:44 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 13:03:45 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
wrote:

On 2019-10-20, Xeno wrote:
10 years (or less) is a car's *design life*.

Tell that to all the people driving cars substantially older than that.
Today's "design life" closer to 20 years, particularly for the better
japanese models - My old Ford PU is 24 now and just starting to show
rust -here in the south-central ontario rust belt - and over the last
7+ years I may have spent $1500 on repairs. No sign of quitting any
time soon - so it's not just the Japs (and Koreans).

The design life of a Mitsubishi or Mazda may be closer to 10 - and
some of the GM products

All of the products I noted earlier are GM...

--

On 2019-10-20, wrote:
Yeah I remember the "Fish" carburetor was going to get 100 MPG and it
was always "about a year" from production. That was 50 years ago and
we are still waiting.

I have a book with the plans for the Fish carburetor. It's really
nothing all that special.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 12:52:50 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 10/20/2019 12:03 PM, wrote:

Either you need a vehicle to go to work because you have to carry products, tools or parts etc. in which case EV isnt going to cut it or you just need to carry yourself in which case the question is WHY do you have to in this paperless age of computers and internet and Facetime communications?


Exactly how is the computer going to deliver me to one of the area
trailheads?

"Don't you know, you can see the whole trail online in 5 minutes"

Bill Bryson - "A walk in the Woods".

;-)

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 15:27:04 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 12:51:27 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 10/20/2019 11:30 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 08:11:19 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:


On 10/16/19 10:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Stolen from another newsgroup

For those who think that EV's will "save" the "environment":

https://www.city-journal.org/electric-vehicle-batteries

Battery Derangement

Electric vehicles wont save the planet and wont survive without
subsidies.

Mark P. Mills
October 10, 2019

Cut article.

Supposedly, there is an alternative that will get a vehicle 1500 miles.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7592485/Father-eight-invents-electric-car-battery-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html

Yeah I remember the "Fish" carburetor was going to get 100 MPG and it
was always "about a year" from production. That was 50 years ago and
we are still waiting.


I remember my father and uncle talking about all those great inventions
that were being suppressed by the automotive or electric industries --
as they worked their way through a case of Genesee. Those were 12 quart
cases, not those wimpy cases of 12 ounce cans.

The "fish" carburetor may have worked on 1930's era vehicles with
1930's era gasoline - there is adequate evidence that it did - but the
change in gasoline composition rendered it impractical, at best - and
the change in automotive technology doomed it completely. It was NOT
a "supermileage" carb - and it DID go into production (several times)
and WAS used in nascar and powerboat racing, and supplied for VW
performance use. It was a simple carb - but suffered driveability
problems

That was the reality, not the urban legend.

On 10/20/2019 5:08 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-10-20, wrote:
Yeah I remember the "Fish" carburetor was going to get 100 MPG and it
was always "about a year" from production. That was 50 years ago and
we are still waiting.

I have a book with the plans for the Fish carburetor. It's really
nothing all that special.


There was also a "supercharger" thing you could put under the carburetor
that was being pushed for a while. It was like a spacer and had fan
blades in the venturi and it was supposed to increase horsepower.

Don't forget the water injector too. Increases power and fuel mileage.

On 10/20/2019 03:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 12:52:50 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 10/20/2019 12:03 PM, wrote:

Either you need a vehicle to go to work because you have to carry products, tools or parts etc. in which case EV isnt going to cut it or you just need to carry yourself in which case the question is WHY do you have to in this paperless age of computers and internet and Facetime communications?


Exactly how is the computer going to deliver me to one of the area
trailheads?

"Don't you know, you can see the whole trail online in 5 minutes"

Bill Bryson - "A walk in the Woods".

I'm old-fashioned and prefer to live in reality rather than a simulation.

On 10/20/19 2:27 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 12:51:27 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 10/20/2019 11:30 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 08:11:19 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:


On 10/16/19 10:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Stolen from another newsgroup

For those who think that EV's will "save" the "environment":

https://www.city-journal.org/electric-vehicle-batteries

Battery Derangement

Electric vehicles wont save the planet and wont survive without
subsidies.

Mark P. Mills
October 10, 2019

Cut article.

Supposedly, there is an alternative that will get a vehicle 1500 miles.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7592485/Father-eight-invents-electric-car-battery-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html

Yeah I remember the "Fish" carburetor was going to get 100 MPG and it
was always "about a year" from production. That was 50 years ago and
we are still waiting.


I remember my father and uncle talking about all those great inventions
that were being suppressed by the automotive or electric industries --
as they worked their way through a case of Genesee. Those were 12 quart
cases, not those wimpy cases of 12 ounce cans.

The "fish" carburetor may have worked on 1930's era vehicles with
1930's era gasoline - there is adequate evidence that it did - but the
change in gasoline composition rendered it impractical, at best - and
the change in automotive technology doomed it completely. It was NOT
a "supermileage" carb - and it DID go into production (several times)
and WAS used in nascar and powerboat racing, and supplied for VW
performance use. It was a simple carb - but suffered driveability
problems


That reminds me, the Wankel is coming back.
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/mazda-confirms-return-of-the-wankel-rotary-engine-in-2020

I remember reading way back when that they were supposed to go
forever on a gallon of fuel and last forever plus a day. They actually
had problems with oil consumption if I remember right.

On 10/20/2019 04:58 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/20/2019 5:08 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-10-20, wrote:
Yeah I remember the "Fish" carburetor was going to get 100 MPG and it
was always "about a year" from production. That was 50 years ago and
we are still waiting.

I have a book with the plans for the Fish carburetor. It's really
nothing all that special.


There was also a "supercharger" thing you could put under the carburetor
that was being pushed for a while. It was like a spacer and had fan
blades in the venturi and it was supposed to increase horsepower.

Don't forget the water injector too. Increases power and fuel mileage.

https://newatlas.com/bosch-water-injection/45205/
https://newatlas.com/bmw-m4-gts/39736/

That's a bit outside of my price range but if I could get 0-60 in 3.8
with 34 mpg, I'd be a very happy camper.

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 18:58:46 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/20/2019 5:08 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-10-20, wrote:
Yeah I remember the "Fish" carburetor was going to get 100 MPG and it
was always "about a year" from production. That was 50 years ago and
we are still waiting.

I have a book with the plans for the Fish carburetor. It's really
nothing all that special.


There was also a "supercharger" thing you could put under the carburetor
that was being pushed for a while. It was like a spacer and had fan
blades in the venturi and it was supposed to increase horsepower.

Don't forget the water injector too. Increases power and fuel mileage.

Actually water injection does work. (they did it on planes during
WWII). The water turns to steam in the combustion stroke and gives you
a little boost. The trick is using the right amount of water so you
get max boost without putting the fire out.
I suspect that is the performance gain the EPA swears you get with
E-10. You are inevitably injecting some water into the motor because
the "E" is seldom going to be 100% alcohol. Even if it was distilled
to that purity, that I doubt, it is going to start absorbing moisture
as soon as the air gets to it. That is right up until it phase
separates and becomes a gasoline and vodka pousse-café.

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 20:25:34 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 18:58:46 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/20/2019 5:08 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-10-20, wrote:
Yeah I remember the "Fish" carburetor was going to get 100 MPG and it
was always "about a year" from production. That was 50 years ago and
we are still waiting.

I have a book with the plans for the Fish carburetor. It's really
nothing all that special.


There was also a "supercharger" thing you could put under the carburetor
that was being pushed for a while. It was like a spacer and had fan
blades in the venturi and it was supposed to increase horsepower.

Don't forget the water injector too. Increases power and fuel mileage.

Actually water injection does work. (they did it on planes during
WWII). The water turns to steam in the combustion stroke and gives you
a little boost. The trick is using the right amount of water so you
get max boost without putting the fire out.
I suspect that is the performance gain the EPA swears you get with
E-10. You are inevitably injecting some water into the motor because
the "E" is seldom going to be 100% alcohol. Even if it was distilled
to that purity, that I doubt, it is going to start absorbing moisture
as soon as the air gets to it. That is right up until it phase
separates and becomes a gasoline and vodka pousse-café.
The water also cools the intake charge as it evaporates, increasing
air density, which increases power output. It also helps reduce
detonation. The BMW M4 GTS gets 493HP compared to the normal M4's 425
- all attributed to factory water injection.

On 10/20/2019 8:24 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 10/20/2019 04:58 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


Don't forget the water injector too.Â* Increases power and fuel mileage.

https://newatlas.com/bosch-water-injection/45205/
https://newatlas.com/bmw-m4-gts/39736/

That's a bit outside of my price range but if I could get 0-60 in 3.8
with 34 mpg, I'd be a very happy camper.



That looks better than the one on the back pages of the 1960 issue of
Pop Science.

On 10/20/2019 06:23 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/20/19 2:27 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 12:51:27 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 10/20/2019 11:30 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 08:11:19 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:


On 10/16/19 10:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Stolen from another newsgroup

For those who think that EV's will "save" the "environment":

https://www.city-journal.org/electric-vehicle-batteries

Battery Derangement

Electric vehicles wont save the planet and wont survive without
subsidies.

Mark P. Mills
October 10, 2019

Cut article.

Supposedly, there is an alternative that will get a vehicle 1500
miles.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7592485/Father-eight-invents-electric-car-battery-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html


Yeah I remember the "Fish" carburetor was going to get 100 MPG and it
was always "about a year" from production. That was 50 years ago and
we are still waiting.


I remember my father and uncle talking about all those great inventions
that were being suppressed by the automotive or electric industries --
as they worked their way through a case of Genesee. Those were 12 quart
cases, not those wimpy cases of 12 ounce cans.

The "fish" carburetor may have worked on 1930's era vehicles with
1930's era gasoline - there is adequate evidence that it did - but the
change in gasoline composition rendered it impractical, at best - and
the change in automotive technology doomed it completely. It was NOT
a "supermileage" carb - and it DID go into production (several times)
and WAS used in nascar and powerboat racing, and supplied for VW
performance use. It was a simple carb - but suffered driveability
problems


That reminds me, the Wankel is coming back.
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/mazda-confirms-return-of-the-wankel-rotary-engine-in-2020


I remember reading way back when that they were supposed to go
forever on a gallon of fuel and last forever plus a day. They actually
had problems with oil consumption if I remember right.

It's not only Hollywood that's dredging up old ideas... I remember when
the first Wankels showed up at the SCCA races at Lime Rock. There was
some controversy on how you measure the displacement and how that
relates to a conventional engine. The real problem was in that era you
were supposed to be able to hear race cars and something that sounded
like a quiet Hoover didn't draw many fans. iirc they didn't do
particularly well either.

They got past the chattering seals problem in a couple of generation but
I don't know if they ever got past the efficiency problem. Race cars
won't have to meet EPA mandated fleet mileage requirements.

On 10/20/2019 06:25 PM, wrote:
I suspect that is the performance gain the EPA swears you get with
E-10. You are inevitably injecting some water into the motor because
the "E" is seldom going to be 100% alcohol. Even if it was distilled
to that purity, that I doubt, it is going to start absorbing moisture
as soon as the air gets to it. That is right up until it phase
separates and becomes a gasoline and vodka pousse-café.


https://auto.howstuffworks.com/1962-...5-jetfire2.htm

Getcha Turbo Rocket Fluid here... That was back when US car
manufacturers were innovative. Around 1963 I was seriously considering
aiming at a career in automotive engineering and poring over the glossy
brochures from General Motors Institute (now Kettering University). I
wound up at another Institute in another field, which probably was just
as well.

On 10/20/2019 06:39 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
The BMW M4 GTS gets 493HP compared to the normal M4's 425
- all attributed to factory water injection.

And they're claiming 34 mpg. Considering they also put the car on a
diet it must be a real rocket.