The ads for Acorn Stairlifts, the thing you sit on to go upstairs,
refer to having a battery for an electric *shortage*, not electric
outage or failure.

What are they referring to and is this a way to avoid claiming it works
during an outage?

I've never heard of an electric shortage, outside of these commercials.
It sounds like some electricity is getting into the house, maybe 3, 5,
10 amps?, maybe half enough to run the chair and the battery provides
the other half (or less).

A shortage sounds less severe than an outage or failure. If it doesn't
work in an outage and you complain, will they say that it works in a
shortage but they never claimed it worked in an outage?

On 9/14/2019 8:41 PM, micky wrote:
The ads for Acorn Stairlifts, the thing you sit on to go upstairs,
refer to having a battery for an electric *shortage*, not electric
outage or failure.

What are they referring to and is this a way to avoid claiming it works
during an outage?

I've never heard of an electric shortage, outside of these commercials.
It sounds like some electricity is getting into the house, maybe 3, 5,
10 amps?, maybe half enough to run the chair and the battery provides
the other half (or less).

A shortage sounds less severe than an outage or failure. If it doesn't
work in an outage and you complain, will they say that it works in a
shortage but they never claimed it worked in an outage?

Sounds like marketing BS I guess outage would scare people.

On 2019-09-14 6:41 p.m., micky wrote:
The ads for Acorn Stairlifts, the thing you sit on to go upstairs,
refer to having a battery for an electric *shortage*, not electric
outage or failure.

What are they referring to and is this a way to avoid claiming it works
during an outage?

I've never heard of an electric shortage, outside of these commercials.
It sounds like some electricity is getting into the house, maybe 3, 5,
10 amps?, maybe half enough to run the chair and the battery provides
the other half (or less).

A shortage sounds less severe than an outage or failure. If it doesn't
work in an outage and you complain, will they say that it works in a
shortage but they never claimed it worked in an outage?


It's called a brownout.

https://paylesspower.com/blog/what-is-a-brownout/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity)


--
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own facts."
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

An opinion without 3.14 is an onion.
Anon

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 14 Sep 2019 23:32:30 -0600, Idlehands
wrote:

On 2019-09-14 6:41 p.m., micky wrote:
The ads for Acorn Stairlifts, the thing you sit on to go upstairs,
refer to having a battery for an electric *shortage*, not electric
outage or failure.

What are they referring to and is this a way to avoid claiming it works
during an outage?

I've never heard of an electric shortage, outside of these commercials.
It sounds like some electricity is getting into the house, maybe 3, 5,
10 amps?, maybe half enough to run the chair and the battery provides
the other half (or less).

A shortage sounds less severe than an outage or failure. If it doesn't
work in an outage and you complain, will they say that it works in a
shortage but they never claimed it worked in an outage?


It's called a brownout.

https://paylesspower.com/blog/what-is-a-brownout/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity)

Oh, yeah, that's what they must mean. We haven't had one of those for
decades, so I forgot.

So indeed, they're saying in effect, if there's a power failure, you
can't use this thing. It would seem to me a a big (full-size) backup
battery ought to have enough that they can get upstairs, or downstairs,
at least once or twice, even during a total power failure, like when
snow or a storm knocks down the wires.** So the user can go upstairs
and go to sleep until the power comes back on, or until morning at
least. Even if he has to manually engage some intermediate gear to get
the thing to run, just more slowly, on the battery.

When I have time, I'm going to check the competition. This one doesn't
sound very good.

**(That we *have* had, several times for a couple minutes but 3 or 4
times for a couple hours or more. Once for 3 days. At the end of 3 days
it was getting cold enough in the house so that I had just started
looking for a place to stay (since all my close friends were also
without power) when the power came back on.)

I have a letter right by my desk that Tuesday, power will be off about 6
hours, starting about 9AM. If I were dependant on one of these things,
I'd have to set the alarm to be downstairs before then, or maybe
upstairs so I could sleep some more. Who can plan that far ahead?

Do the people who need it get upstairs also need it to get downstairs?

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 7:12:56 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:

Do the people who need it get upstairs also need it to get downstairs?

I'm sure some people need it because their balance is compromised. Down
might be more problematic than up for them.

Cindy Hamilton

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 15 Sep 2019 04:46:48 -0700 (PDT), Cindy
Hamilton wrote:

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 7:12:56 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:

Do the people who need it get upstairs also need it to get downstairs?

I'm sure some people need it because their balance is compromised. Down
might be more problematic than up for them.

Cindy Hamilton

You're right. That's certainly true going down a steep hill (outside),
compared to going up.

I thought I would find evasive language in other ads but certainly
didnt' in all of of them:

"https://www.hoveround.com › help › frequently-asked-questions ›
stair-lifts
Results 1 - 10 - Because your stair lift is powered by 24V DC batteries,
it will continue to operate during a power outage. Depending on the
model, your stair lift can get anywhere from 10-40 trips per charge
during a power outage." Hoveround

10 to 40 trips. That's more like it.


https://www.stannah-stairlifts.com › always-active
Your stairlift keeps going, even in a power outage. ... Stannah
stairlifts don't stop because you've lost power, because they're fitted
with batteries that are constantly trickle-charged from an outlet near
your stairs. If the main power supply cuts out, the batteries take over
and get you safely to your destination.

Weasel words. So you'll finish one trip, but who knows about a full
trip? https://www.stannah-stairlifts.com/always-active/ The webpage
claims no more than the google entry. The difference between this and
10 trips is amazing.


NO particular brand mentioned here oops, later it refers to a "your
Handicare stairlift", but it does use the word Outage, not Shortage.
Acorn is looking like the worst.
Myth #2: A stair lift will stop working when there is a power outage.
Contrary to popular belief, stair lifts are not hardwired into your
home, but instead are DC battery powered and simply plug into your wall
to be recharged. They store a reservoir of power in their batteries so
in the event of a power failure, they will be able to move up and down
the staircase because they draw on the power stored in their batteries.
These batteries typically store enough power for multiple trips up and
downs stairs: the exact number of trips will depend on the type
(straight vs. curved) and length of your staircase as well as the
amperage of the batteries. The batteries recharge when the stairlift is
left on a park point. Some stairlifts will charge wherever they are left
on their track. This feature is called ‘Continuous Charge’.


http://www.thestairlift.com/whathapp...weroutage.html
If there is a home electrical power failure during a power outage, the
DC battery powered chair lift will operate for as long as the batteries
last for (typically 20 round trips).

A fully charged battery will complete approximately 15 to 20 return
trips on an average staircase. The actual number is dependent on the
length of stairs, angle of the staircase and the weight of the user.

With normal use, the batteries stay good for an average of 3 years. They
cost in the region of $70.00 per pair. Typical cost for a 12V battery is
$35 each.



I don't expect to ever need one of these things. And there are 2
corners on my stairs so it would be really slow. I think I'd rather
crawl up the stairs if it comes to that. But someone else might want
one and so far, no Acorn or Stannah.

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 7:12:56 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 14 Sep 2019 23:32:30 -0600, Idlehands
wrote:

On 2019-09-14 6:41 p.m., micky wrote:
The ads for Acorn Stairlifts, the thing you sit on to go upstairs,
refer to having a battery for an electric *shortage*, not electric
outage or failure.

What are they referring to and is this a way to avoid claiming it works
during an outage?

I've never heard of an electric shortage, outside of these commercials.
It sounds like some electricity is getting into the house, maybe 3, 5,
10 amps?, maybe half enough to run the chair and the battery provides
the other half (or less).

A shortage sounds less severe than an outage or failure. If it doesn't
work in an outage and you complain, will they say that it works in a
shortage but they never claimed it worked in an outage?


It's called a brownout.

https://paylesspower.com/blog/what-is-a-brownout/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity)

Oh, yeah, that's what they must mean. We haven't had one of those for
decades, so I forgot.

So indeed, they're saying in effect, if there's a power failure, you
can't use this thing. It would seem to me a a big (full-size) backup
battery ought to have enough that they can get upstairs, or downstairs,
at least once or twice, even during a total power failure, like when
snow or a storm knocks down the wires.** So the user can go upstairs
and go to sleep until the power comes back on, or until morning at
least. Even if he has to manually engage some intermediate gear to get
the thing to run, just more slowly, on the battery.

When I have time, I'm going to check the competition. This one doesn't
sound very good.

**(That we *have* had, several times for a couple minutes but 3 or 4
times for a couple hours or more. Once for 3 days. At the end of 3 days
it was getting cold enough in the house so that I had just started
looking for a place to stay (since all my close friends were also
without power) when the power came back on.)

I have a letter right by my desk that Tuesday, power will be off about 6
hours, starting about 9AM. If I were dependant on one of these things,
I'd have to set the alarm to be downstairs before then, or maybe
upstairs so I could sleep some more. Who can plan that far ahead?

Do the people who need it get upstairs also need it to get downstairs?

This is beyond stupid. It seems 99% certain that no manufacturer is going
to put all the cost of a battery into a product like this for "brownouts".
Brownouts are very rare, certainly compared to the power being off.
Once you have that design, it's essentially almost the same thing to
make it so that the damn thing is actually useful, instead of the battery
and added expense being virtually useless. It would be harder to design
something that used the battery as an AC power assist, instead of using
it to just run the thing. I'll wage money you'll find that it uses
a rechargeable battery and it works during power outages.

The company is pretty dumb though, because on their website they don't
talk about the battery, beyond listing a 24V one in the tech specs.

On 9/14/2019 10:32 PM, Idlehands wrote:
On 2019-09-14 6:41 p.m., micky wrote:
The ads for Acorn Stairlifts, the thing you sit on to go upstairs,
refer to having a battery for an electric *shortage*, not electric
outage or failure.

What are they referring to and is this a way to avoid claiming it works
during an outage?

I've never heard of an electric shortage, outside of these commercials.
It sounds like some electricity is getting into the house, maybe 3, 5,
10 amps?, maybe half enough to run the chair and the battery provides
the other half (or less).

A shortage sounds less severe than an outage or failure.Â* If it doesn't
work in an outage and you complain, will they say that it works in a
shortage but they never claimed it worked in an outage?


It's called a brownout.

https://paylesspower.com/blog/what-is-a-brownout/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity)


You are called an idiot, dumbass.
That is one of the worst companies ever. Highly agressive.

On 9/15/19 12:32 AM, Idlehands wrote:

[snip]

It's called a brownout.

https://paylesspower.com/blog/what-is-a-brownout/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity)

We had about a dozen short brownouts one day last month, where every 5
minutes or so voltage would drop to a little over 50V. The only damage I
had was to a desktop computer (just the power supply).

BTW, I remember that it was on a Sunday. Apparently this happened over a
big area.

--
101 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." [Robert Heinlein,
"Notebooks of Lazarus Long"]

On 9/15/2019 6:12 AM, micky wrote:
....

I have a letter right by my desk that Tuesday, power will be off about 6
hours, starting about 9AM. If I were dependant on one of these things,
I'd have to set the alarm to be downstairs before then, or maybe
upstairs so I could sleep some more. Who can plan that far ahead?
....

You'd need an alarm to be up by 9AM????

--

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 06:56:14 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 7:12:56 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 14 Sep 2019 23:32:30 -0600, Idlehands
wrote:

On 2019-09-14 6:41 p.m., micky wrote:
The ads for Acorn Stairlifts, the thing you sit on to go upstairs,
refer to having a battery for an electric *shortage*, not electric
outage or failure.

What are they referring to and is this a way to avoid claiming it works
during an outage?

I've never heard of an electric shortage, outside of these commercials.
It sounds like some electricity is getting into the house, maybe 3, 5,
10 amps?, maybe half enough to run the chair and the battery provides
the other half (or less).

A shortage sounds less severe than an outage or failure. If it doesn't
work in an outage and you complain, will they say that it works in a
shortage but they never claimed it worked in an outage?


It's called a brownout.

https://paylesspower.com/blog/what-is-a-brownout/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity)

Oh, yeah, that's what they must mean. We haven't had one of those for
decades, so I forgot.

So indeed, they're saying in effect, if there's a power failure, you
can't use this thing. It would seem to me a a big (full-size) backup
battery ought to have enough that they can get upstairs, or downstairs,
at least once or twice, even during a total power failure, like when
snow or a storm knocks down the wires.** So the user can go upstairs
and go to sleep until the power comes back on, or until morning at
least. Even if he has to manually engage some intermediate gear to get
the thing to run, just more slowly, on the battery.

When I have time, I'm going to check the competition. This one doesn't
sound very good.

**(That we *have* had, several times for a couple minutes but 3 or 4
times for a couple hours or more. Once for 3 days. At the end of 3 days
it was getting cold enough in the house so that I had just started
looking for a place to stay (since all my close friends were also
without power) when the power came back on.)

I have a letter right by my desk that Tuesday, power will be off about 6
hours, starting about 9AM. If I were dependant on one of these things,
I'd have to set the alarm to be downstairs before then, or maybe
upstairs so I could sleep some more. Who can plan that far ahead?

Do the people who need it get upstairs also need it to get downstairs?

This is beyond stupid. It seems 99% certain that no manufacturer is going
to put all the cost of a battery into a product like this for "brownouts".
Brownouts are very rare, certainly compared to the power being off.
Once you have that design, it's essentially almost the same thing to
make it so that the damn thing is actually useful, instead of the battery
and added expense being virtually useless. It would be harder to design
something that used the battery as an AC power assist, instead of using
it to just run the thing. I'll wage money you'll find that it uses
a rechargeable battery and it works during power outages.

The company is pretty dumb though, because on their website they don't
talk about the battery, beyond listing a 24V one in the tech specs.

Just Gee Whiz info about what companies will do. The battery back up
for a brand new Lazboy $1600 assisted lift chair is good for one maybe
2 up's or downs. Don't forget pop, one down and out. Sit somewhere
else. This chair is inoperative in a power outage.
It is two 9v transistor radio batteries. I am thinking about hot
wiring in a decent Gel Cell and be sleeping at night.
I just need to see if that is 9v or 18.
Until then I am ready for the call/text to my wife.
"I kindly sat in my chair and kept playing on my phone because it
still works and I think I may have adjusted my chair too much and now
I am stuck".

As for the OP, I am not really following this thread I just wanted to
see what Trader was saying. He stays on topic as a rule.
I will just say that down here where yankees go to die, Yes my wife
used to get calls to the gate in her little HOA compound that there
was someone stuck in a stair lift. (power, machine failure, operator
error, pick one).

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 06:56:14 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 7:12:56 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 14 Sep 2019 23:32:30 -0600, Idlehands
wrote:

On 2019-09-14 6:41 p.m., micky wrote:
The ads for Acorn Stairlifts, the thing you sit on to go upstairs,
refer to having a battery for an electric *shortage*, not electric
outage or failure.

What are they referring to and is this a way to avoid claiming it works
during an outage?

I've never heard of an electric shortage, outside of these commercials.
It sounds like some electricity is getting into the house, maybe 3, 5,
10 amps?, maybe half enough to run the chair and the battery provides
the other half (or less).

A shortage sounds less severe than an outage or failure. If it doesn't
work in an outage and you complain, will they say that it works in a
shortage but they never claimed it worked in an outage?


It's called a brownout.

https://paylesspower.com/blog/what-is-a-brownout/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity)

Oh, yeah, that's what they must mean. We haven't had one of those for
decades, so I forgot.

So indeed, they're saying in effect, if there's a power failure, you
can't use this thing. It would seem to me a a big (full-size) backup
battery ought to have enough that they can get upstairs, or downstairs,
at least once or twice, even during a total power failure, like when
snow or a storm knocks down the wires.** So the user can go upstairs
and go to sleep until the power comes back on, or until morning at
least. Even if he has to manually engage some intermediate gear to get
the thing to run, just more slowly, on the battery.

When I have time, I'm going to check the competition. This one doesn't
sound very good.

**(That we *have* had, several times for a couple minutes but 3 or 4
times for a couple hours or more. Once for 3 days. At the end of 3 days
it was getting cold enough in the house so that I had just started
looking for a place to stay (since all my close friends were also
without power) when the power came back on.)

I have a letter right by my desk that Tuesday, power will be off about 6
hours, starting about 9AM. If I were dependant on one of these things,
I'd have to set the alarm to be downstairs before then, or maybe
upstairs so I could sleep some more. Who can plan that far ahead?

Do the people who need it get upstairs also need it to get downstairs?

This is beyond stupid. It seems 99% certain that no manufacturer is going
to put all the cost of a battery into a product like this for "brownouts".
Brownouts are very rare, certainly compared to the power being off.
Once you have that design, it's essentially almost the same thing to
make it so that the damn thing is actually useful, instead of the battery
and added expense being virtually useless. It would be harder to design
something that used the battery as an AC power assist, instead of using
it to just run the thing. I'll wage money you'll find that it uses
a rechargeable battery and it works during power outages.

The company is pretty dumb though, because on their website they don't
talk about the battery, beyond listing a 24V one in the tech specs.


Looking at this thread a little, if brownouts are your issue, get one
of these.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Henc%20Variac.jpg
It will give you what you dial in for an output from pretty much
anything you feed it.

BTW
The crude electrical work was what I could do with hand tools and a
battery drill with stuff I had in the shop after Irma.

On 9/15/19 5:05 PM, wrote:
As for the OP, I am not really following this thread I just wanted to
see what Trader was saying. He stays on topic as a rule.

I think he_4 does OK until his Trump Derangement Syndrome flares up.

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 20:41:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

The ads for Acorn Stairlifts, the thing you sit on to go upstairs,
refer to having a battery for an electric *shortage*, not electric
outage or failure.

What are they referring to and is this a way to avoid claiming it works
during an outage?

I've never heard of an electric shortage, outside of these commercials.
It sounds like some electricity is getting into the house, maybe 3, 5,
10 amps?, maybe half enough to run the chair and the battery provides
the other half (or less).

A shortage sounds less severe than an outage or failure. If it doesn't
work in an outage and you complain, will they say that it works in a
shortage but they never claimed it worked in an outage?
They are battery operated AT ALL TIMES - and charge when docked.
There is no power cord or connector to the chair when in operation (on
any I have seen) They "park" at a charging station. Bad batteries are
the most common problem with any chair-lift.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 07:12:46 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 14 Sep 2019 23:32:30 -0600, Idlehands
wrote:

On 2019-09-14 6:41 p.m., micky wrote:
The ads for Acorn Stairlifts, the thing you sit on to go upstairs,
refer to having a battery for an electric *shortage*, not electric
outage or failure.

What are they referring to and is this a way to avoid claiming it works
during an outage?

I've never heard of an electric shortage, outside of these commercials.
It sounds like some electricity is getting into the house, maybe 3, 5,
10 amps?, maybe half enough to run the chair and the battery provides
the other half (or less).

A shortage sounds less severe than an outage or failure. If it doesn't
work in an outage and you complain, will they say that it works in a
shortage but they never claimed it worked in an outage?


It's called a brownout.

https://paylesspower.com/blog/what-is-a-brownout/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity)

Oh, yeah, that's what they must mean. We haven't had one of those for
decades, so I forgot.

So indeed, they're saying in effect, if there's a power failure, you
can't use this thing. It would seem to me a a big (full-size) backup
battery ought to have enough that they can get upstairs, or downstairs,
at least once or twice, even during a total power failure, like when
snow or a storm knocks down the wires.** So the user can go upstairs
and go to sleep until the power comes back on, or until morning at
least. Even if he has to manually engage some intermediate gear to get
the thing to run, just more slowly, on the battery.

When I have time, I'm going to check the competition. This one doesn't
sound very good.

**(That we *have* had, several times for a couple minutes but 3 or 4
times for a couple hours or more. Once for 3 days. At the end of 3 days
it was getting cold enough in the house so that I had just started
looking for a place to stay (since all my close friends were also
without power) when the power came back on.)

I have a letter right by my desk that Tuesday, power will be off about 6
hours, starting about 9AM. If I were dependant on one of these things,
I'd have to set the alarm to be downstairs before then, or maybe
upstairs so I could sleep some more. Who can plan that far ahead?

Do the people who need it get upstairs also need it to get downstairs?
They virtually ALL run on battery - ALL THE TIME. No extension cord
going up and down the stairs to get pinched or damaged

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 17:11:13 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 06:56:14 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 7:12:56 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 14 Sep 2019 23:32:30 -0600, Idlehands
wrote:

On 2019-09-14 6:41 p.m., micky wrote:
The ads for Acorn Stairlifts, the thing you sit on to go upstairs,
refer to having a battery for an electric *shortage*, not electric
outage or failure.

What are they referring to and is this a way to avoid claiming it works
during an outage?

I've never heard of an electric shortage, outside of these commercials.
It sounds like some electricity is getting into the house, maybe 3, 5,
10 amps?, maybe half enough to run the chair and the battery provides
the other half (or less).

A shortage sounds less severe than an outage or failure. If it doesn't
work in an outage and you complain, will they say that it works in a
shortage but they never claimed it worked in an outage?


It's called a brownout.

https://paylesspower.com/blog/what-is-a-brownout/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity)

Oh, yeah, that's what they must mean. We haven't had one of those for
decades, so I forgot.

So indeed, they're saying in effect, if there's a power failure, you
can't use this thing. It would seem to me a a big (full-size) backup
battery ought to have enough that they can get upstairs, or downstairs,
at least once or twice, even during a total power failure, like when
snow or a storm knocks down the wires.** So the user can go upstairs
and go to sleep until the power comes back on, or until morning at
least. Even if he has to manually engage some intermediate gear to get
the thing to run, just more slowly, on the battery.

When I have time, I'm going to check the competition. This one doesn't
sound very good.

**(That we *have* had, several times for a couple minutes but 3 or 4
times for a couple hours or more. Once for 3 days. At the end of 3 days
it was getting cold enough in the house so that I had just started
looking for a place to stay (since all my close friends were also
without power) when the power came back on.)

I have a letter right by my desk that Tuesday, power will be off about 6
hours, starting about 9AM. If I were dependant on one of these things,
I'd have to set the alarm to be downstairs before then, or maybe
upstairs so I could sleep some more. Who can plan that far ahead?

Do the people who need it get upstairs also need it to get downstairs?

This is beyond stupid. It seems 99% certain that no manufacturer is going
to put all the cost of a battery into a product like this for "brownouts".
Brownouts are very rare, certainly compared to the power being off.
Once you have that design, it's essentially almost the same thing to
make it so that the damn thing is actually useful, instead of the battery
and added expense being virtually useless. It would be harder to design
something that used the battery as an AC power assist, instead of using
it to just run the thing. I'll wage money you'll find that it uses
a rechargeable battery and it works during power outages.

The company is pretty dumb though, because on their website they don't
talk about the battery, beyond listing a 24V one in the tech specs.


Looking at this thread a little, if brownouts are your issue, get one
of these.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Henc%20Variac.jpg
It will give you what you dial in for an output from pretty much
anything you feed it.

BTW
The crude electrical work was what I could do with hand tools and a
battery drill with stuff I had in the shop after Irma.
Generally limmited to about 120% of input voltage UNLESS you get one
designer to power 240 volt devices from 110. I have about a half dozen
of them floating around of varying sizes.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 15 Sep 2019 11:05:08 -0500, dpb
wrote:

On 9/15/2019 6:12 AM, micky wrote:
...

I have a letter right by my desk that Tuesday, power will be off about 6
hours, starting about 9AM. If I were dependant on one of these things,
I'd have to set the alarm to be downstairs before then, or maybe
upstairs so I could sleep some more. Who can plan that far ahead?
...

You'd need an alarm to be up by 9AM????

When I'm so old I need a stairlift, I might.

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 5:11:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 06:56:14 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 7:12:56 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 14 Sep 2019 23:32:30 -0600, Idlehands
wrote:

On 2019-09-14 6:41 p.m., micky wrote:
The ads for Acorn Stairlifts, the thing you sit on to go upstairs,
refer to having a battery for an electric *shortage*, not electric
outage or failure.

What are they referring to and is this a way to avoid claiming it works
during an outage?

I've never heard of an electric shortage, outside of these commercials.
It sounds like some electricity is getting into the house, maybe 3, 5,
10 amps?, maybe half enough to run the chair and the battery provides
the other half (or less).

A shortage sounds less severe than an outage or failure. If it doesn't
work in an outage and you complain, will they say that it works in a
shortage but they never claimed it worked in an outage?


It's called a brownout.

https://paylesspower.com/blog/what-is-a-brownout/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity)

Oh, yeah, that's what they must mean. We haven't had one of those for
decades, so I forgot.

So indeed, they're saying in effect, if there's a power failure, you
can't use this thing. It would seem to me a a big (full-size) backup
battery ought to have enough that they can get upstairs, or downstairs,
at least once or twice, even during a total power failure, like when
snow or a storm knocks down the wires.** So the user can go upstairs
and go to sleep until the power comes back on, or until morning at
least. Even if he has to manually engage some intermediate gear to get
the thing to run, just more slowly, on the battery.

When I have time, I'm going to check the competition. This one doesn't
sound very good.

**(That we *have* had, several times for a couple minutes but 3 or 4
times for a couple hours or more. Once for 3 days. At the end of 3 days
it was getting cold enough in the house so that I had just started
looking for a place to stay (since all my close friends were also
without power) when the power came back on.)

I have a letter right by my desk that Tuesday, power will be off about 6
hours, starting about 9AM. If I were dependant on one of these things,
I'd have to set the alarm to be downstairs before then, or maybe
upstairs so I could sleep some more. Who can plan that far ahead?

Do the people who need it get upstairs also need it to get downstairs?

This is beyond stupid. It seems 99% certain that no manufacturer is going
to put all the cost of a battery into a product like this for "brownouts".
Brownouts are very rare, certainly compared to the power being off.
Once you have that design, it's essentially almost the same thing to
make it so that the damn thing is actually useful, instead of the battery
and added expense being virtually useless. It would be harder to design
something that used the battery as an AC power assist, instead of using
it to just run the thing. I'll wage money you'll find that it uses
a rechargeable battery and it works during power outages.

The company is pretty dumb though, because on their website they don't
talk about the battery, beyond listing a 24V one in the tech specs.


Looking at this thread a little, if brownouts are your issue, get one
of these.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Henc%20Variac.jpg
It will give you what you dial in for an output from pretty much
anything you feed it.

BTW
The crude electrical work was what I could do with hand tools and a
battery drill with stuff I had in the shop after Irma.

If you look at info on the web, it's clear that Acorn lift has a 24V
rechargeable battery. What they don't say is how many times you can go
up and down without a recharge. They do say that if you use it four or
more times in a day, the battery needs to be replaced in a year or less.
And that it's not user replaceable..... Ouch. i'm sure we could replace
it, but for the average schmuck, you can imagine what that costs.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 15 Sep 2019 17:11:13 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 06:56:14 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 7:12:56 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 14 Sep 2019 23:32:30 -0600, Idlehands
wrote:

On 2019-09-14 6:41 p.m., micky wrote:
The ads for Acorn Stairlifts, the thing you sit on to go upstairs,
refer to having a battery for an electric *shortage*, not electric
outage or failure.

What are they referring to and is this a way to avoid claiming it works
during an outage?

I've never heard of an electric shortage, outside of these commercials.
It sounds like some electricity is getting into the house, maybe 3, 5,
10 amps?, maybe half enough to run the chair and the battery provides
the other half (or less).

A shortage sounds less severe than an outage or failure. If it doesn't
work in an outage and you complain, will they say that it works in a
shortage but they never claimed it worked in an outage?


It's called a brownout.

https://paylesspower.com/blog/what-is-a-brownout/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity)

Oh, yeah, that's what they must mean. We haven't had one of those for
decades, so I forgot.

So indeed, they're saying in effect, if there's a power failure, you
can't use this thing. It would seem to me a a big (full-size) backup
battery ought to have enough that they can get upstairs, or downstairs,
at least once or twice, even during a total power failure, like when
snow or a storm knocks down the wires.** So the user can go upstairs
and go to sleep until the power comes back on, or until morning at
least. Even if he has to manually engage some intermediate gear to get
the thing to run, just more slowly, on the battery.

When I have time, I'm going to check the competition. This one doesn't
sound very good.

**(That we *have* had, several times for a couple minutes but 3 or 4
times for a couple hours or more. Once for 3 days. At the end of 3 days
it was getting cold enough in the house so that I had just started
looking for a place to stay (since all my close friends were also
without power) when the power came back on.)

I have a letter right by my desk that Tuesday, power will be off about 6
hours, starting about 9AM. If I were dependant on one of these things,
I'd have to set the alarm to be downstairs before then, or maybe
upstairs so I could sleep some more. Who can plan that far ahead?

Do the people who need it get upstairs also need it to get downstairs?

This is beyond stupid. It seems 99% certain that no manufacturer is going
to put all the cost of a battery into a product like this for "brownouts".
Brownouts are very rare, certainly compared to the power being off.
Once you have that design, it's essentially almost the same thing to
make it so that the damn thing is actually useful, instead of the battery
and added expense being virtually useless. It would be harder to design
something that used the battery as an AC power assist, instead of using
it to just run the thing. I'll wage money you'll find that it uses
a rechargeable battery and it works during power outages.

The company is pretty dumb though, because on their website they don't
talk about the battery, beyond listing a 24V one in the tech specs.


Looking at this thread a little, if brownouts are your issue, get one
of these.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Henc%20Variac.jpg

I built one of these when I lived in NYC. I think for a while 40 years
ago they had brown=outs, or they predicted they would.

I had a large (3 or 4 pounds?) iso-transformer with a 100 volt, or 90%
tap, so I cannected that to the input and the 100% to the output so I
had 10 or 20 volts (I forget which) more than what was coming out of the
wall. Mounted it and a receptacle to a small piece of wood. Once I got
to Baltimore, I never needed it, but I still have it somewhere.

It will give you what you dial in for an output from pretty much
anything you feed it.

BTW
The crude electrical work was what I could do with hand tools and a
battery drill with stuff I had in the shop after Irma.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 15 Sep 2019 17:42:36 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 07:12:46 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 14 Sep 2019 23:32:30 -0600, Idlehands
wrote:

On 2019-09-14 6:41 p.m., micky wrote:
The ads for Acorn Stairlifts, the thing you sit on to go upstairs,
refer to having a battery for an electric *shortage*, not electric
outage or failure.

What are they referring to and is this a way to avoid claiming it works
during an outage?

I've never heard of an electric shortage, outside of these commercials.
It sounds like some electricity is getting into the house, maybe 3, 5,
10 amps?, maybe half enough to run the chair and the battery provides
the other half (or less).

A shortage sounds less severe than an outage or failure. If it doesn't
work in an outage and you complain, will they say that it works in a
shortage but they never claimed it worked in an outage?


It's called a brownout.

https://paylesspower.com/blog/what-is-a-brownout/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity)

Oh, yeah, that's what they must mean. We haven't had one of those for
decades, so I forgot.

So indeed, they're saying in effect, if there's a power failure, you
can't use this thing. It would seem to me a a big (full-size) backup
battery ought to have enough that they can get upstairs, or downstairs,
at least once or twice, even during a total power failure, like when
snow or a storm knocks down the wires.** So the user can go upstairs
and go to sleep until the power comes back on, or until morning at
least. Even if he has to manually engage some intermediate gear to get
the thing to run, just more slowly, on the battery.

When I have time, I'm going to check the competition. This one doesn't
sound very good.

**(That we *have* had, several times for a couple minutes but 3 or 4
times for a couple hours or more. Once for 3 days. At the end of 3 days
it was getting cold enough in the house so that I had just started
looking for a place to stay (since all my close friends were also
without power) when the power came back on.)

I have a letter right by my desk that Tuesday, power will be off about 6
hours, starting about 9AM. If I were dependant on one of these things,
I'd have to set the alarm to be downstairs before then, or maybe
upstairs so I could sleep some more. Who can plan that far ahead?

Do the people who need it get upstairs also need it to get downstairs?

They virtually ALL run on battery - ALL THE TIME. No extension cord
going up and down the stairs to get pinched or damaged

I readily believe that. The problem is that some claim to run up and
down the stairs several times on what's in the battery, adn Acorn
doesn't say that. And the other company only said it would get you
where you were going, iow, it would finish one trip.

I'd be curious if the ones with weak claims are as bad as they sound and
if the ones with big claims are as good as they sound. But I certainly
wouldnt' buy one that claims only to finish one trip. Or Acorn.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 19:59:00 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 15 Sep 2019 17:42:36 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 07:12:46 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 14 Sep 2019 23:32:30 -0600, Idlehands
wrote:

On 2019-09-14 6:41 p.m., micky wrote:
The ads for Acorn Stairlifts, the thing you sit on to go upstairs,
refer to having a battery for an electric *shortage*, not electric
outage or failure.

What are they referring to and is this a way to avoid claiming it works
during an outage?

I've never heard of an electric shortage, outside of these commercials.
It sounds like some electricity is getting into the house, maybe 3, 5,
10 amps?, maybe half enough to run the chair and the battery provides
the other half (or less).

A shortage sounds less severe than an outage or failure. If it doesn't
work in an outage and you complain, will they say that it works in a
shortage but they never claimed it worked in an outage?


It's called a brownout.

https://paylesspower.com/blog/what-is-a-brownout/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity)

Oh, yeah, that's what they must mean. We haven't had one of those for
decades, so I forgot.

So indeed, they're saying in effect, if there's a power failure, you
can't use this thing. It would seem to me a a big (full-size) backup
battery ought to have enough that they can get upstairs, or downstairs,
at least once or twice, even during a total power failure, like when
snow or a storm knocks down the wires.** So the user can go upstairs
and go to sleep until the power comes back on, or until morning at
least. Even if he has to manually engage some intermediate gear to get
the thing to run, just more slowly, on the battery.

When I have time, I'm going to check the competition. This one doesn't
sound very good.

**(That we *have* had, several times for a couple minutes but 3 or 4
times for a couple hours or more. Once for 3 days. At the end of 3 days
it was getting cold enough in the house so that I had just started
looking for a place to stay (since all my close friends were also
without power) when the power came back on.)

I have a letter right by my desk that Tuesday, power will be off about 6
hours, starting about 9AM. If I were dependant on one of these things,
I'd have to set the alarm to be downstairs before then, or maybe
upstairs so I could sleep some more. Who can plan that far ahead?

Do the people who need it get upstairs also need it to get downstairs?

They virtually ALL run on battery - ALL THE TIME. No extension cord
going up and down the stairs to get pinched or damaged

I readily believe that. The problem is that some claim to run up and
down the stairs several times on what's in the battery, adn Acorn
doesn't say that. And the other company only said it would get you
where you were going, iow, it would finish one trip.

I'd be curious if the ones with weak claims are as bad as they sound and
if the ones with big claims are as good as they sound. But I certainly
wouldnt' buy one that claims only to finish one trip. Or Acorn.
An acoen on a fresh battery should give you 8 or 10 straight single
story runs with no problem - (4 or 5 round trips) The down trip takes
less than half the power of an up trip.

On 9/15/19 7:59 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 15 Sep 2019 17:42:36 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 07:12:46 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 14 Sep 2019 23:32:30 -0600, Idlehands
wrote:

On 2019-09-14 6:41 p.m., micky wrote:
The ads for Acorn Stairlifts, the thing you sit on to go upstairs,
refer to having a battery for an electric *shortage*, not electric
outage or failure.

What are they referring to and is this a way to avoid claiming it works
during an outage?

I've never heard of an electric shortage, outside of these commercials.
It sounds like some electricity is getting into the house, maybe 3, 5,
10 amps?, maybe half enough to run the chair and the battery provides
the other half (or less).

A shortage sounds less severe than an outage or failure. If it doesn't
work in an outage and you complain, will they say that it works in a
shortage but they never claimed it worked in an outage?


It's called a brownout.

https://paylesspower.com/blog/what-is-a-brownout/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity)

Oh, yeah, that's what they must mean. We haven't had one of those for
decades, so I forgot.

So indeed, they're saying in effect, if there's a power failure, you
can't use this thing. It would seem to me a a big (full-size) backup
battery ought to have enough that they can get upstairs, or downstairs,
at least once or twice, even during a total power failure, like when
snow or a storm knocks down the wires.** So the user can go upstairs
and go to sleep until the power comes back on, or until morning at
least. Even if he has to manually engage some intermediate gear to get
the thing to run, just more slowly, on the battery.

When I have time, I'm going to check the competition. This one doesn't
sound very good.

**(That we *have* had, several times for a couple minutes but 3 or 4
times for a couple hours or more. Once for 3 days. At the end of 3 days
it was getting cold enough in the house so that I had just started
looking for a place to stay (since all my close friends were also
without power) when the power came back on.)

I have a letter right by my desk that Tuesday, power will be off about 6
hours, starting about 9AM. If I were dependant on one of these things,
I'd have to set the alarm to be downstairs before then, or maybe
upstairs so I could sleep some more. Who can plan that far ahead?

Do the people who need it get upstairs also need it to get downstairs?

They virtually ALL run on battery - ALL THE TIME. No extension cord
going up and down the stairs to get pinched or damaged

I readily believe that. The problem is that some claim to run up and
down the stairs several times on what's in the battery, adn Acorn
doesn't say that. And the other company only said it would get you
where you were going, iow, it would finish one trip.

I'd be curious if the ones with weak claims are as bad as they sound and
if the ones with big claims are as good as they sound. But I certainly
wouldnt' buy one that claims only to finish one trip. Or Acorn.



The scooters at Walmart run fatards up and down the snack food aisles all day long on a single charge.
A couple trips on a staircase doesn't seem much different.

In article , thinkin.outloud@smarty-
pants.edu says...

The scooters at Walmart run fatards up and down the snack food aisles all day long on a single charge.
A couple trips on a staircase doesn't seem much different.



It all depends on the size of the battery. The stair lift is made to
sell and make a profit for the company. The smaller the battery,the
more profit.

Where I worked there were battery powered pallet trucks. They would
haul a man and a load of 800 pounds for about 8 hours. The battery did
weigh in at about 500 pounds and was a lead acid type. I am sure there
is better batteries now as those were being made in the 1970's.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 05:43:26 -0400, Thinkin' Outloud
wrote:

On 9/15/19 7:59 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 15 Sep 2019 17:42:36 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 07:12:46 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 14 Sep 2019 23:32:30 -0600, Idlehands
wrote:

On 2019-09-14 6:41 p.m., micky wrote:
The ads for Acorn Stairlifts, the thing you sit on to go upstairs,
refer to having a battery for an electric *shortage*, not electric
outage or failure.

What are they referring to and is this a way to avoid claiming it works
during an outage?

I've never heard of an electric shortage, outside of these commercials.
It sounds like some electricity is getting into the house, maybe 3, 5,
10 amps?, maybe half enough to run the chair and the battery provides
the other half (or less).

A shortage sounds less severe than an outage or failure. If it doesn't
work in an outage and you complain, will they say that it works in a
shortage but they never claimed it worked in an outage?


It's called a brownout.

https://paylesspower.com/blog/what-is-a-brownout/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownout_(electricity)

Oh, yeah, that's what they must mean. We haven't had one of those for
decades, so I forgot.

So indeed, they're saying in effect, if there's a power failure, you
can't use this thing. It would seem to me a a big (full-size) backup
battery ought to have enough that they can get upstairs, or downstairs,
at least once or twice, even during a total power failure, like when
snow or a storm knocks down the wires.** So the user can go upstairs
and go to sleep until the power comes back on, or until morning at
least. Even if he has to manually engage some intermediate gear to get
the thing to run, just more slowly, on the battery.

When I have time, I'm going to check the competition. This one doesn't
sound very good.

**(That we *have* had, several times for a couple minutes but 3 or 4
times for a couple hours or more. Once for 3 days. At the end of 3 days
it was getting cold enough in the house so that I had just started
looking for a place to stay (since all my close friends were also
without power) when the power came back on.)

I have a letter right by my desk that Tuesday, power will be off about 6
hours, starting about 9AM. If I were dependant on one of these things,
I'd have to set the alarm to be downstairs before then, or maybe
upstairs so I could sleep some more. Who can plan that far ahead?

Do the people who need it get upstairs also need it to get downstairs?

They virtually ALL run on battery - ALL THE TIME. No extension cord
going up and down the stairs to get pinched or damaged

I readily believe that. The problem is that some claim to run up and
down the stairs several times on what's in the battery, adn Acorn
doesn't say that. And the other company only said it would get you
where you were going, iow, it would finish one trip.

I'd be curious if the ones with weak claims are as bad as they sound and
if the ones with big claims are as good as they sound. But I certainly
wouldnt' buy one that claims only to finish one trip. Or Acorn.



The scooters at Walmart run fatards up and down the snack food aisles all day long on a single charge.
A couple trips on a staircase doesn't seem much different.

Scooters have 32Ah batteries in them. MOST chairlifts use 7.2 to 10
aH batteries, while some may use 12-16 .Some use NiCads. An Acorn
lift WILL allow a down trip on a depleted battery (as it requires
almost no power to decend) According to the manuals, an unloaded lift
should draw 7 to 7.5 amps going up and less than 3.5 amps decending.
Load will increase power draw but the battery is fused at 20 amps.

The batteries used are rated at 7.2AH at 20 amp draw - so minimum of
21 minutes run time (going up) at maximum rated current. Say it takes
2 minutes to go up (being conservative) 10 trips up use a maximum 7 Ah
of capacity and the 10 down trips take less than 1. This is at
MAXIUMUM rated capacity of something like 350 lbs on a 180 lift.

This means you are pretty safe to expect AT LEAST 5 or 6 round trips
-and theoretically up to 10.

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 11:17:30 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article , thinkin.outloud@smarty-
pants.edu says...

The scooters at Walmart run fatards up and down the snack food aisles all day long on a single charge.
A couple trips on a staircase doesn't seem much different.



It all depends on the size of the battery. The stair lift is made to
sell and make a profit for the company. The smaller the battery,the
more profit.

Where I worked there were battery powered pallet trucks. They would
haul a man and a load of 800 pounds for about 8 hours. The battery did
weigh in at about 500 pounds and was a lead acid type. I am sure there
is better batteries now as those were being made in the 1970's.


Still in common use today. Nickel and lithium batteries are lighter
and smaller (and more fragile and MUCH more expensive -) and lift
trucks require ballast anyway, so light weight is, if anything, a
disadvantage.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

In Clare Snyder writes:

[snip]

Scooters have 32Ah batteries in them.

_some_ do. There are quite a few different models
by numerous manufacturers (plus a gazillion number
of names they go under).

The last one I worked on had inserts/holders for two
12V lead acid batteries, and based on the physical size
format they were limited to a nominal (nameplate) of
about 20 AH.

(Don't get me started on how much outright lying
there is on those labels).

Note that depending on the scooter design, different
units can get you a lot more, or less, range than
the others using the same types of batteries.

Bit by bit we're transitioning to LiFe batteries,
which give a _lot_ more power and weigh a mere
fraction of the lead acids. But they're a hell of
a lot more expensive, and require rewiring the
charging circuits.

--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

In article ,
says...

Still in common use today. Nickel and lithium batteries are lighter
and smaller (and more fragile and MUCH more expensive -) and lift
trucks require ballast anyway, so light weight is, if anything, a
disadvantage.


Common fork lift trucks do need the ballast. The lift trucks we had did
not. They only lifted the load a few inches off the floor. The load
forks had wheels on them so they were suported and not the teeter tot
arangement like a fork lift that raises the load many feet above ground.

The driver was in front and drove them like a truck with the load
behind. All wheels stayed on the floor at all time. A light weight
battery would be good for those lifts. They were more like a pallet
jack with a motor and seat.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 15:36:57 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
wrote:

In Clare Snyder writes:

[snip]

Scooters have 32Ah batteries in them.

_some_ do. There are quite a few different models
by numerous manufacturers (plus a gazillion number
of names they go under).

The last one I worked on had inserts/holders for two
12V lead acid batteries, and based on the physical size
format they were limited to a nominal (nameplate) of
about 20 AH.

(Don't get me started on how much outright lying
there is on those labels).

Note that depending on the scooter design, different
units can get you a lot more, or less, range than
the others using the same types of batteries.

Bit by bit we're transitioning to LiFe batteries,
which give a _lot_ more power and weigh a mere
fraction of the lead acids. But they're a hell of
a lot more expensive, and require rewiring the
charging circuits.
MOST use U1 batteries (or ATX4L) which are typically 32 Ah. Some use
even larger ones (mostly "outdoor" 4 wheeled units like the Pride
Quantum 4000 or "planetary" steering power chairs) The Quantum 4000
uses 75Ah D75S batteries.. Some use smaller batteries, but not too
many of the "commercial duty" units with shopping carts attached. .
Some (mostly portable "mobi" style like the Pride Go-Go) use the 18Ah
D18S style, and some use the 12 Ah D12S battery - most using the D12s
can also use the D18 and vise versa.
I just replaced a pair of U1s on a pride 2000 4 wheel scooter earlier
this week. A friend's power chair used to have 108Ah batteries - - - .

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 12:12:51 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Still in common use today. Nickel and lithium batteries are lighter
and smaller (and more fragile and MUCH more expensive -) and lift
trucks require ballast anyway, so light weight is, if anything, a
disadvantage.


Common fork lift trucks do need the ballast. The lift trucks we had did
not. They only lifted the load a few inches off the floor. The load
forks had wheels on them so they were suported and not the teeter tot
arangement like a fork lift that raises the load many feet above ground.

The driver was in front and drove them like a truck with the load
behind. All wheels stayed on the floor at all time. A light weight
battery would be good for those lifts. They were more like a pallet
jack with a motor and seat.



Basically a "tow-motor" or light duty tug then.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

In article ,
says...


Basically a "tow-motor" or light duty tug then.
-



One was similar to this except it had seat .

https://www.proliftequipment.com/new...trolled-rider-
pallet-jack/


This is similar to the later ones.

https://www.crown.com/en-vn/forklift...let-truck.html

The were used mainly to move large stainless steel cans. The cans were
about 5 feet tall and 3 feet in diameter. They had legs about 5 inches
tall, so all the lift had to do was get the legs off the cement floor a
few inches. The cans were filled with what looked like an unbraded rope
of polyester/ They were moved from where they were filled up to an area
that processed the material. About 60 cans were placed in 2 rows and
ran through a machine that streached it and cut it and went out looking
like a bale of cotton.




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus