An year ago, I extended the branch circuit from an outlet in my garage
to outside the garage (into the open yard) to provide a couple of
outlets to be able to use electrical power tools in the yard. I used
outdoor type sealed boxes for the outlets, however I did not change
the circuit breaker at the main panel to GFI type. I have regular
breakers on ALL the branches in my house. Everything worked fine till
the last week.

There was heavy rain last week and the outlet box in the yard got
water into it. As a result (I think) the outlets in the yard and
garage are not working (no juice). Curiously, the 2 outlets in the 2
bathrooms on the second floor are also not working. I don't know if
this is just a coincidence and if the bathroom outlets are on the same
branch as the garage/yeard outlets. Everything else in the house is
working fine.

I opened the outlets and checked the wires for connections (they are
OK) and any burnout (none) and checked for juice with electrical
tester and found no juice. Then I checked the cable visually to see if
any part of it has burned and it looks OK. I could not check the cable
that is inside the walls. Then I tested all the breakers and they all
are getting the juice (don't know if they are putting out the
juice....how to I check that?).

Well...this is where I am stuck. I don't know which breaker is for the
branch circuit for the garage and bathrooms and I don't know how to
check for a defective breaker. No breaker was tripped off and they all
seem to be mechanically working.

Can someone provide tips to me as to how I should go about diagnosing
and repairing this problem short of getting an electrician? Thanks in
advance.

Harry

Are you sure there isn't a GFCI receptacle in there somewhere?

Well...this is where I am stuck. I don't know which breaker is for the
branch circuit for the garage and bathrooms and I don't know how to
check for a defective breaker. No breaker was tripped off and they all
seem to be mechanically working.

No offense, but if you don't know how to test if a breaker is hot, then you
shouldn't be doing work like this. Really... it is about as basic as you
can get. I am sure someone will tell you how to do it, but they shouldn't
cause you need an electrician to check over whatever you have done.

BTW, not labeling your breaker box when it was working was your first
mistake; not using a GFCI (assuming for the moment that you really aren't
using one without knowing it) was your second mistake.

"Greg" wrote in message
...
Are you sure there isn't a GFCI receptacle in there somewhere?

Yep! That's what it looks like from here.

From: "toller"


Well...this is where I am stuck. I don't know which breaker is for the
branch circuit for the garage and bathrooms and I don't know how to
check for a defective breaker. No breaker was tripped off and they all
seem to be mechanically working.

No offense, but if you don't know how to test if a breaker is hot, then you
shouldn't be doing work like this. Really... it is about as basic as you
can get. I am sure someone will tell you how to do it, but they shouldn't
cause you need an electrician to check over whatever you have done.

BTW, not labeling your breaker box when it was working was your first
mistake; not using a GFCI (assuming for the moment that you really aren't
using one without knowing it) was your second mistake.


Actually, given his description it is a GFCI protected circuit. It was typical
to wire bathroom outlets and garage and outdoor outlets on one single GFCI
protected branch circuit.

Look for a tripped GFCI outlet in either the garage, basement, any bathroom or
lavatory.

I would disconnect the line where you extended it and see if the
problem goes away. If it does then you know for sure that it's the
newer outdoor circuit. You said that it goes to more than one place
then you should be able to reconnect the outdoor circuit and
disconnect the outlets one at a time and leave it that way with one
off long enough to find out if it's the bad one.

"harry manka" wrote in message
om...
An year ago, I extended the branch circuit from an outlet in my garage
to outside the garage (into the open yard) to provide a couple of
outlets to be able to use electrical power tools in the yard. I used
outdoor type sealed boxes for the outlets, however I did not change
the circuit breaker at the main panel to GFI type. I have regular
breakers on ALL the branches in my house. Everything worked fine till
the last week.

There was heavy rain last week and the outlet box in the yard got
water into it. As a result (I think) the outlets in the yard and
garage are not working (no juice). Curiously, the 2 outlets in the 2
bathrooms on the second floor are also not working. I don't know if
this is just a coincidence and if the bathroom outlets are on the same
branch as the garage/yeard outlets. Everything else in the house is
working fine.

I opened the outlets and checked the wires for connections (they are
OK) and any burnout (none) and checked for juice with electrical
tester and found no juice. Then I checked the cable visually to see if
any part of it has burned and it looks OK. I could not check the cable
that is inside the walls. Then I tested all the breakers and they all
are getting the juice (don't know if they are putting out the
juice....how to I check that?).

Well...this is where I am stuck. I don't know which breaker is for the
branch circuit for the garage and bathrooms and I don't know how to
check for a defective breaker. No breaker was tripped off and they all
seem to be mechanically working.

Can someone provide tips to me as to how I should go about diagnosing
and repairing this problem short of getting an electrician? Thanks in
advance.

Harry


Carefully check your breakers in the box. Sometimes they don't look tripped
and they are.

Then follow advice others have offered.

Colbyt

On 4 Aug 2004 20:30:03 -0700, (harry manka) wrote:



Well...this is where I am stuck. I don't know which breaker is for the
branch circuit for the garage and bathrooms and I don't know how to
check for a defective breaker. No breaker was tripped off and they all
seem to be mechanically working.

Can someone provide tips to me as to how I should go about diagnosing
and repairing this problem short of getting an electrician? Thanks in
advance.

Harry

OK. Other people have already told you that your knowledge, as of now,
is not up to the task of electrical work. They're right. But I believe
that intelligent people can learn new things. I've been doing a lot of
that in 6 years of home ownership.

So let's start with something simple. Breakers don't generally flip
their toggle switch to the OFF position when they trip. They move a
little bit in that direction. The switch is indeed OFF, but the toggle
looks like it's still on. You need to flip it to the OFF position and
then back to ON to reset it.

Now a harder lesson.

The typical electrical work you might do as a homeowner isn't all that
difficult to learn. Get a good book, ask an electrician friend to show
you a few things and you'll probably be OK with simple jobs.

But the most important thing is to learn to avoid taking the easy way
out. You needed an outlet so you found the nearest available
electricity and daisy chained onto it. After the fact you're finding
out that maybe you'd be sawing some 5/4 oak in the yard while a couple
of 1500W hair dryers were running in your bathrooms.

My house was built in 1949. Electricity was a less integral part of
life then, at least judging by the wiring in my house. The original
wiring was all on four circuits and each one has a random assortment
of lights and outlets from all over the house on it. I can cut the
original builders a little slack though, as they probably could not
foresee the explosion of electrical device use that would happen in
the next 50 years.

But worse than the original installation are the numerous clumsy
additions put in by handymen. I went to change a light fixture last
spring and ended up with a full day's rewiring job. Someone had
decided that it was perfectly OK to daisy chain off a light fixture in
a 3" octagonal box to power two duplex outlets in TWO OTHER ROOMS.
There were 4 BX cables meeting in this box, so it was packed solid
with wire and wire nuts.

This was shortsighted and dangerous. For your sake, and for that of
future owners, do the job right. It usually doesn't even require that
much more work; just a little planning will suffice. I've added 8
circuits to the original 4, which means that pretty much all the heavy
current items are on their own new circuits. The original wiring just
handles the lights and minor items like clocks, the stereo, etc.

Greg G.

I was thinking much the same.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"toller" wrote in message
...

No offense, but if you don't know how to test if a breaker is hot, then you
shouldn't be doing work like this. Really... it is about as basic as you
can get. I am sure someone will tell you how to do it, but they shouldn't
cause you need an electrician to check over whatever you have done.

Update....

1. There are no GFCI receptacles anywhere in the house. No GFCI
breakers either. One hair blower has test/reset buttons.

2. There are 18 branch circuits. 14 were identified/labeled by me
before (but not the ones in garage and bathrooms).

3. The garage outlet and 3 bathroom outlets are not working. My guess
is that they are on the same branch.

Now....I checked all 18 breakers and they all work. but none of the
outlets in the garage and bath have electricity coming to them. I even
checked the hot wires coming to them. I did not see any signs of
burnout. Does this mean that the cable from the breaker to the first
outlet has open/is burnt?

I can get electrician to fix this if I have to, but I like the
challenge and the knowledge I end up getting by doing myself.

Harry

Greg G wrote in message . ..
On 4 Aug 2004 20:30:03 -0700, (harry manka) wrote:



Well...this is where I am stuck. I don't know which breaker is for the
branch circuit for the garage and bathrooms and I don't know how to
check for a defective breaker. No breaker was tripped off and they all
seem to be mechanically working.

Can someone provide tips to me as to how I should go about diagnosing
and repairing this problem short of getting an electrician? Thanks in
advance.

Harry

OK. Other people have already told you that your knowledge, as of now,
is not up to the task of electrical work. They're right. But I believe
that intelligent people can learn new things. I've been doing a lot of
that in 6 years of home ownership.

So let's start with something simple. Breakers don't generally flip
their toggle switch to the OFF position when they trip. They move a
little bit in that direction. The switch is indeed OFF, but the toggle
looks like it's still on. You need to flip it to the OFF position and
then back to ON to reset it.

Now a harder lesson.

The typical electrical work you might do as a homeowner isn't all that
difficult to learn. Get a good book, ask an electrician friend to show
you a few things and you'll probably be OK with simple jobs.

But the most important thing is to learn to avoid taking the easy way
out. You needed an outlet so you found the nearest available
electricity and daisy chained onto it. After the fact you're finding
out that maybe you'd be sawing some 5/4 oak in the yard while a couple
of 1500W hair dryers were running in your bathrooms.

My house was built in 1949. Electricity was a less integral part of
life then, at least judging by the wiring in my house. The original
wiring was all on four circuits and each one has a random assortment
of lights and outlets from all over the house on it. I can cut the
original builders a little slack though, as they probably could not
foresee the explosion of electrical device use that would happen in
the next 50 years.

But worse than the original installation are the numerous clumsy
additions put in by handymen. I went to change a light fixture last
spring and ended up with a full day's rewiring job. Someone had
decided that it was perfectly OK to daisy chain off a light fixture in
a 3" octagonal box to power two duplex outlets in TWO OTHER ROOMS.
There were 4 BX cables meeting in this box, so it was packed solid
with wire and wire nuts.

This was shortsighted and dangerous. For your sake, and for that of
future owners, do the job right. It usually doesn't even require that
much more work; just a little planning will suffice. I've added 8
circuits to the original 4, which means that pretty much all the heavy
current items are on their own new circuits. The original wiring just
handles the lights and minor items like clocks, the stereo, etc.

Greg G.

Repair Question
From: (harry manka)


Update....

1. There are no GFCI receptacles anywhere in the house. No GFCI
breakers either. One hair blower has test/reset buttons.

2. There are 18 branch circuits. 14 were identified/labeled by me
before (but not the ones in garage and bathrooms).

3. The garage outlet and 3 bathroom outlets are not working. My guess
is that they are on the same branch.

Now....I checked all 18 breakers and they all work. but none of the
outlets in the garage and bath have electricity coming to them. I even
checked the hot wires coming to them. I did not see any signs of
burnout. Does this mean that the cable from the breaker to the first
outlet has open/is burnt?

I can get electrician to fix this if I have to, but I like the
challenge and the knowledge I end up getting by doing myself.

Harry


I have a feeling, especially if your home was built AFTER 1970-ish, you HAD a
GFCI outlet as the first outlet in that garage/bathroom circuit.

Reason being, there would be no reason to put a garage outlet and ONLY bathroom
outlets on one single circuit. Also check any outdoor outlet the GFCI might be
there although that would be really stupid.

It is possible that there is an outdoor receptacle on the same circuit that
may contain the GFI.

The next step would be to open up the problem receptacles beginning with the
one close to the electrical panel. Not only should you check the hot
connections, but you should also check the neutrals as well. Tighten down
all of the neutral terminal screws in the electrical panel.

How old is this house?


John Grabowski
http://www.mrelectrician.tv




"harry manka" wrote in message
om...
Update....

1. There are no GFCI receptacles anywhere in the house. No GFCI
breakers either. One hair blower has test/reset buttons.

2. There are 18 branch circuits. 14 were identified/labeled by me
before (but not the ones in garage and bathrooms).

3. The garage outlet and 3 bathroom outlets are not working. My guess
is that they are on the same branch.

Now....I checked all 18 breakers and they all work. but none of the
outlets in the garage and bath have electricity coming to them. I even
checked the hot wires coming to them. I did not see any signs of
burnout. Does this mean that the cable from the breaker to the first
outlet has open/is burnt?

I can get electrician to fix this if I have to, but I like the
challenge and the knowledge I end up getting by doing myself.

Harry

Greg G wrote in message
. ..
On 4 Aug 2004 20:30:03 -0700, (harry manka) wrote:



Well...this is where I am stuck. I don't know which breaker is for the
branch circuit for the garage and bathrooms and I don't know how to
check for a defective breaker. No breaker was tripped off and they all
seem to be mechanically working.

Can someone provide tips to me as to how I should go about diagnosing
and repairing this problem short of getting an electrician? Thanks in
advance.

Harry

OK. Other people have already told you that your knowledge, as of now,
is not up to the task of electrical work. They're right. But I believe
that intelligent people can learn new things. I've been doing a lot of
that in 6 years of home ownership.

So let's start with something simple. Breakers don't generally flip
their toggle switch to the OFF position when they trip. They move a
little bit in that direction. The switch is indeed OFF, but the toggle
looks like it's still on. You need to flip it to the OFF position and
then back to ON to reset it.

Now a harder lesson.

The typical electrical work you might do as a homeowner isn't all that
difficult to learn. Get a good book, ask an electrician friend to show
you a few things and you'll probably be OK with simple jobs.

But the most important thing is to learn to avoid taking the easy way
out. You needed an outlet so you found the nearest available
electricity and daisy chained onto it. After the fact you're finding
out that maybe you'd be sawing some 5/4 oak in the yard while a couple
of 1500W hair dryers were running in your bathrooms.

My house was built in 1949. Electricity was a less integral part of
life then, at least judging by the wiring in my house. The original
wiring was all on four circuits and each one has a random assortment
of lights and outlets from all over the house on it. I can cut the
original builders a little slack though, as they probably could not
foresee the explosion of electrical device use that would happen in
the next 50 years.

But worse than the original installation are the numerous clumsy
additions put in by handymen. I went to change a light fixture last
spring and ended up with a full day's rewiring job. Someone had
decided that it was perfectly OK to daisy chain off a light fixture in
a 3" octagonal box to power two duplex outlets in TWO OTHER ROOMS.
There were 4 BX cables meeting in this box, so it was packed solid
with wire and wire nuts.

This was shortsighted and dangerous. For your sake, and for that of
future owners, do the job right. It usually doesn't even require that
much more work; just a little planning will suffice. I've added 8
circuits to the original 4, which means that pretty much all the heavy
current items are on their own new circuits. The original wiring just
handles the lights and minor items like clocks, the stereo, etc.

Greg G.

(HA HA Budys Here) wrote in message ...
Repair Question
From: (harry manka)


Update....

1. There are no GFCI receptacles anywhere in the house. No GFCI
breakers either. One hair blower has test/reset buttons.

2. There are 18 branch circuits. 14 were identified/labeled by me
before (but not the ones in garage and bathrooms).

3. The garage outlet and 3 bathroom outlets are not working. My guess
is that they are on the same branch.

Now....I checked all 18 breakers and they all work. but none of the
outlets in the garage and bath have electricity coming to them. I even
checked the hot wires coming to them. I did not see any signs of
burnout. Does this mean that the cable from the breaker to the first
outlet has open/is burnt?

I can get electrician to fix this if I have to, but I like the
challenge and the knowledge I end up getting by doing myself.

Harry


I have a feeling, especially if your home was built AFTER 1970-ish, you HAD a
GFCI outlet as the first outlet in that garage/bathroom circuit.

Reason being, there would be no reason to put a garage outlet and ONLY bathroom
outlets on one single circuit. Also check any outdoor outlet the GFCI might be
there although that would be really stupid.


OK.....this seems to be a sensible consensus here. So I will be
checking the house inside out for the presence of any GFCI outlet.
Thanks all.

"John Grabowski" wrote in message .net...
It is possible that there is an outdoor receptacle on the same circuit that
may contain the GFI.

The next step would be to open up the problem receptacles beginning with the
one close to the electrical panel. Not only should you check the hot
connections, but you should also check the neutrals as well. Tighten down
all of the neutral terminal screws in the electrical panel.

How old is this house?


John Grabowski
http://www.mrelectrician.tv


John, the house was built around 1987-88 timeframe. It's fairly modern
and well built house as my neighbors tell me that the builder was very
good. Not many people say that about builders. I am not the original
buyer.

I checked the entire house for any GFCI outlet/s and couldn't find
any. No GFCI breakers either. I find that hard to believe. I had
previously checked ALL non-working outlets (there are 4 of them- 1
each in upstairs bathrooms, 1 in the dressing room adjoining master
bath and 1 in garage) and no outlet is getting electricity at live
wires in those outlets. I did not check the neutrals but does it
matter really! I mean if there is no electricity at live, then I don't
expect it to be at neutral. ALL breakers have electricity at live
wires....so basically I am at the end of my investigation. Is it
possible that the cable is burnt inside the wall where I can't see?
The thought sends chills up my spine. I would think the breaker would
trip before something like that happens.

may be it's the time to call an electrician.....

Harry


"harry manka" wrote in message
om...
Update....

1. There are no GFCI receptacles anywhere in the house. No GFCI
breakers either. One hair blower has test/reset buttons.

2. There are 18 branch circuits. 14 were identified/labeled by me
before (but not the ones in garage and bathrooms).

3. The garage outlet and 3 bathroom outlets are not working. My guess
is that they are on the same branch.

Now....I checked all 18 breakers and they all work. but none of the
outlets in the garage and bath have electricity coming to them. I even
checked the hot wires coming to them. I did not see any signs of
burnout. Does this mean that the cable from the breaker to the first
outlet has open/is burnt?

I can get electrician to fix this if I have to, but I like the
challenge and the knowledge I end up getting by doing myself.

Harry

Greg G wrote in message
. ..
On 4 Aug 2004 20:30:03 -0700, (harry manka) wrote:



Well...this is where I am stuck. I don't know which breaker is for the
branch circuit for the garage and bathrooms and I don't know how to
check for a defective breaker. No breaker was tripped off and they all
seem to be mechanically working.

Can someone provide tips to me as to how I should go about diagnosing
and repairing this problem short of getting an electrician? Thanks in
advance.

Harry

OK. Other people have already told you that your knowledge, as of now,
is not up to the task of electrical work. They're right. But I believe
that intelligent people can learn new things. I've been doing a lot of
that in 6 years of home ownership.

So let's start with something simple. Breakers don't generally flip
their toggle switch to the OFF position when they trip. They move a
little bit in that direction. The switch is indeed OFF, but the toggle
looks like it's still on. You need to flip it to the OFF position and
then back to ON to reset it.

Now a harder lesson.

The typical electrical work you might do as a homeowner isn't all that
difficult to learn. Get a good book, ask an electrician friend to show
you a few things and you'll probably be OK with simple jobs.

But the most important thing is to learn to avoid taking the easy way
out. You needed an outlet so you found the nearest available
electricity and daisy chained onto it. After the fact you're finding
out that maybe you'd be sawing some 5/4 oak in the yard while a couple
of 1500W hair dryers were running in your bathrooms.

My house was built in 1949. Electricity was a less integral part of
life then, at least judging by the wiring in my house. The original
wiring was all on four circuits and each one has a random assortment
of lights and outlets from all over the house on it. I can cut the
original builders a little slack though, as they probably could not
foresee the explosion of electrical device use that would happen in
the next 50 years.

But worse than the original installation are the numerous clumsy
additions put in by handymen. I went to change a light fixture last
spring and ended up with a full day's rewiring job. Someone had
decided that it was perfectly OK to daisy chain off a light fixture in
a 3" octagonal box to power two duplex outlets in TWO OTHER ROOMS.
There were 4 BX cables meeting in this box, so it was packed solid
with wire and wire nuts.

This was shortsighted and dangerous. For your sake, and for that of
future owners, do the job right. It usually doesn't even require that
much more work; just a little planning will suffice. I've added 8
circuits to the original 4, which means that pretty much all the heavy
current items are on their own new circuits. The original wiring just
handles the lights and minor items like clocks, the stereo, etc.

Greg G.

I checked the entire house for any GFCI outlet/s and couldn't find
any. No GFCI breakers either. I find that hard to believe. I had
previously checked ALL non-working outlets (there are 4 of them- 1
each in upstairs bathrooms, 1 in the dressing room adjoining master
bath and 1 in garage) and no outlet is getting electricity at live
wires in those outlets.

Didja check "outside" I have 2 GFI outlets out there. This is a new house
so I dont know if they have any other outlets 'downstream' or not. In our
last house, there was one in the laundry room that controlled much of the
garage, two in the kitchen, another in the garage and also one outside on
the patio that controlled other outlets inside.

When something went "off" it was a PITA to find which GFI had popped.

R

The National Electrical Code at that time required GFI protection on
bathroom, garage, basement, outdoor, and kitchen receptacles. The kitchen
circuits are required to be separate 20 amp lines. The bathroom receptacle
was not required at that time to be a separate 20 amp line as it is now.
Unless your locality did not adopt or enforce the code, it's difficult to
believe there is no GFI protection anywhere.

Assuming that you have already opened up each receptacle and checked for hot
and neutral, your next step would be to open up all non working receptacles
and check continuity between them. Disconnect the receptacles. Draw yourself
a diagram and tag each wire to get a visual image of how the wiring is run.
Determine which wires are supposed to be the feed from the circuit breaker
panel. That should help you decide where you need to look next. If you
don't have continuity between the panel and the first outlet, then your
problem is somewhere in between. In that case you may have to open up some
walls or just refeed the first outlet. Be careful. Since all of your
circuit breakers are hot, you may find your mystery hot wire during your
investigation.

It is possible that you may have a broken wire in the walls and a continuity
test will help determine that. Disconnect all wires including the bare
grounds and check for continuity on all conductors.


John Grabowski
http://www.mrelectrician.tv




"harry manka" wrote in message
om...
"John Grabowski" wrote in message
.net...
It is possible that there is an outdoor receptacle on the same circuit
that
may contain the GFI.

The next step would be to open up the problem receptacles beginning with
the
one close to the electrical panel. Not only should you check the hot
connections, but you should also check the neutrals as well. Tighten
down
all of the neutral terminal screws in the electrical panel.

How old is this house?


John Grabowski
http://www.mrelectrician.tv


John, the house was built around 1987-88 timeframe. It's fairly modern
and well built house as my neighbors tell me that the builder was very
good. Not many people say that about builders. I am not the original
buyer.

I checked the entire house for any GFCI outlet/s and couldn't find
any. No GFCI breakers either. I find that hard to believe. I had
previously checked ALL non-working outlets (there are 4 of them- 1
each in upstairs bathrooms, 1 in the dressing room adjoining master
bath and 1 in garage) and no outlet is getting electricity at live
wires in those outlets. I did not check the neutrals but does it
matter really! I mean if there is no electricity at live, then I don't
expect it to be at neutral. ALL breakers have electricity at live
wires....so basically I am at the end of my investigation. Is it
possible that the cable is burnt inside the wall where I can't see?
The thought sends chills up my spine. I would think the breaker would
trip before something like that happens.

may be it's the time to call an electrician.....

Harry


"harry manka" wrote in message
om...
Update....

1. There are no GFCI receptacles anywhere in the house. No GFCI
breakers either. One hair blower has test/reset buttons.

2. There are 18 branch circuits. 14 were identified/labeled by me
before (but not the ones in garage and bathrooms).

3. The garage outlet and 3 bathroom outlets are not working. My guess
is that they are on the same branch.

Now....I checked all 18 breakers and they all work. but none of the
outlets in the garage and bath have electricity coming to them. I even
checked the hot wires coming to them. I did not see any signs of
burnout. Does this mean that the cable from the breaker to the first
outlet has open/is burnt?

I can get electrician to fix this if I have to, but I like the
challenge and the knowledge I end up getting by doing myself.

Harry

Greg G wrote in message
. ..
On 4 Aug 2004 20:30:03 -0700, (harry manka) wrote:



Well...this is where I am stuck. I don't know which breaker is for
the
branch circuit for the garage and bathrooms and I don't know how to
check for a defective breaker. No breaker was tripped off and they
all
seem to be mechanically working.

Can someone provide tips to me as to how I should go about
diagnosing
and repairing this problem short of getting an electrician? Thanks
in
advance.

Harry

OK. Other people have already told you that your knowledge, as of
now,
is not up to the task of electrical work. They're right. But I
believe
that intelligent people can learn new things. I've been doing a lot
of
that in 6 years of home ownership.

So let's start with something simple. Breakers don't generally flip
their toggle switch to the OFF position when they trip. They move a
little bit in that direction. The switch is indeed OFF, but the
toggle
looks like it's still on. You need to flip it to the OFF position
and
then back to ON to reset it.

Now a harder lesson.

The typical electrical work you might do as a homeowner isn't all
that
difficult to learn. Get a good book, ask an electrician friend to
show
you a few things and you'll probably be OK with simple jobs.

But the most important thing is to learn to avoid taking the easy
way
out. You needed an outlet so you found the nearest available
electricity and daisy chained onto it. After the fact you're finding
out that maybe you'd be sawing some 5/4 oak in the yard while a
couple
of 1500W hair dryers were running in your bathrooms.

My house was built in 1949. Electricity was a less integral part of
life then, at least judging by the wiring in my house. The original
wiring was all on four circuits and each one has a random assortment
of lights and outlets from all over the house on it. I can cut the
original builders a little slack though, as they probably could not
foresee the explosion of electrical device use that would happen in
the next 50 years.

But worse than the original installation are the numerous clumsy
additions put in by handymen. I went to change a light fixture last
spring and ended up with a full day's rewiring job. Someone had
decided that it was perfectly OK to daisy chain off a light fixture
in
a 3" octagonal box to power two duplex outlets in TWO OTHER ROOMS.
There were 4 BX cables meeting in this box, so it was packed solid
with wire and wire nuts.

This was shortsighted and dangerous. For your sake, and for that of
future owners, do the job right. It usually doesn't even require
that
much more work; just a little planning will suffice. I've added 8
circuits to the original 4, which means that pretty much all the
heavy
current items are on their own new circuits. The original wiring
just
handles the lights and minor items like clocks, the stereo, etc.

Greg G.

I am upgrading my bathrooms and have now an orphaned NM14 cable leading
to an outdoor receptacle, which I upgraded to be a GFCI receptacle.
Now I need to supply it with power from somewhere. I know that
according to NEC 2002 I can't supply it from a circuit that supplies a
bathroom (where it used draw power from). Are there any other
restrictions/requirements regarding outdoor receptacles, or can I
pretty much splice it on to an available cable from a 15 amp circuit
(with a box of course)?

Thanks in advance,

Thomas

Sure, tap it from any 15 amp circuit nearby
"Thomas" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am upgrading my bathrooms and have now an orphaned NM14 cable leading
to an outdoor receptacle, which I upgraded to be a GFCI receptacle.
Now I need to supply it with power from somewhere. I know that
according to NEC 2002 I can't supply it from a circuit that supplies a
bathroom (where it used draw power from). Are there any other
restrictions/requirements regarding outdoor receptacles, or can I
pretty much splice it on to an available cable from a 15 amp circuit
(with a box of course)?

Thanks in advance,

Thomas

On 3 Jan 2005 10:18:14 -0800, "Thomas" wrote:

I am upgrading my bathrooms and have now an orphaned NM14 cable leading
to an outdoor receptacle, which I upgraded to be a GFCI receptacle.
Now I need to supply it with power from somewhere. I know that
according to NEC 2002 I can't supply it from a circuit that supplies a
bathroom (where it used draw power from). Are there any other
restrictions/requirements regarding outdoor receptacles, or can I
pretty much splice it on to an available cable from a 15 amp circuit
(with a box of course)?

Thanks in advance,

Thomas

When you said you upgraded your bathroom, did you upgrade it to a
20amp circuit? Plus, does this circuit supply only this bathroom?

If so, then you can fish out the 14awg, and pull in a new 12awg and
you should be able to connect the outside box per, 2002 NEC 210.11(C)3
Exp 1.

No as usual, follow local codes, and allow only qualified personnel
work on your house.

later,

tom @ www.ChopURL.com

or can I
pretty much splice it on to an available cable from a 15 amp circuit
(with a box of course)?

add up the total amps your currently using on the circuit your planning to tie
into, along w/ the amps your planning to use and if your unbder 15 i would go
ahead.